Not only did he teach us to fear. . . fear. . . which has got to take real talent. . .. but, VP also took things we read like. . . in this life you will have many troubles. . . and somehow convinced most . . . . . . if you have troubles in this life something is wrong with your "believing".
Well, if you "believe" what is says. . . troubles seem a natural outcome in this life. . . no?
How did he get most of us to disregard what was actually written. . . . and believe the opposite??
How did he do that?
Fascinating. . . . . and some people will go to the grave convinced he was right.
Sometimes I think of those years (13 for me), as a trip to the "hall of mirrors" at the carnival...the minute I left, I felt liberated and never looked back. I knew these people were scum and that I had been conned.
..."and Lo, I shall bend you over and have my way with you, you shall be a cloud with no water for I shall drink your water"...
Hmmm...Rumrunners post didn't show up here ...I guess it was because I was trying to quote a quote?...anyway...go back and read post #21...
Personally, I enjoy your sense of humoar waysider but I' m a bit concerned about some of the newer posters here getting distracted and thinking the whole thing is one bloody joke. But I do like your style.
Personally, I enjoy your sense of humor waysider but I' m a bit concerned about some of the newer posters here getting distracted and thinking the whole thing is one bloody joke. But I do like your style.
Well, there is humor in it, I agree, but, then there is a serious side to it if you consider the lyrics.
When you wish upon a star
Makes no difference who you are
Anything your heart desires
Will come to you
If your heart is in your dream
No request is too extreme
When you wish upon a star
As dreamers do
Fate is kind
She brings to those who love
The sweet fulfillment of
Their secret longing
Like a bolt out of the blue
Fate steps in and sees you through
When you wish upon a star
Your dreams come true
That could describe several things, such as The Green Card ("anything your heart desires") and The Law of Believing ("makes no difference who you are.").
And then, you have the analogies that can be drawn from the journey Pinochio takes from being a puppet, to being exploited, to all the hardships it causes him, and, of course, it all works out in due time. (hopefully)
Looking at it on a more serious note, we learned in The Way that believers were special because they could actually change things in the physical world but simply thinking about them. Renewed mind, Law of Believing, Dealing With the Adversary etc. (I don't care how many times people point to the scripture that says we can move mountains, I simply don't accept that as being literal.) Or how about this: We were taught that there was some sort of magic bubble surrounding us because we were the "one true household". Hellooooo! It was a cult. There was never any magic bubble. And that's, perhaps, some of the easier stuff to overcome. How about the way you automatically respond to oppressive authority? Do you automatically buckle under to it? Or, do you find yourself infuriated by it and hell-bent on defying it? Do you find yourself having to always be right about everything? There's more. Lots more. Some of it is very subtle. That's the stuff that comes out when you least expect it.
I'm not sure. The answer to that, IMO, has to be tailored to the individual, because, everyone was affected in their own personal way. For me, there was a lot of guilt about leaving that had to be addressed. I couldn't do that until I understood what exactly it was that I had left. What you have to deal with may be completely different. I think, though, we all have to start with some of the basics. The doctrines, like the law of believing and hedge of protection and devils hiding in the bushes just waiting to pounce on you. Then, we have to take a critical look at the lifestyle we lived and consider how that shaped the way we think and behave and react. This is all, of course, just my opinion. Yours may be completely different. And who's to say what course of action is right or how long the journey should take? You have to chart that course yourself.
I'm glad waysider alluded to the individuality of our unique journeys! And some of us may not be finished with the process. I just noticed a small bolop of green goo in my own surroundings not too long ago and I thought I was pretty well done!!!
The stress we lived under those last years could not be healthy. And what about some of our leaders? I'm pretty sure we were dealing with a mental illness with one of our leaders--and we were supposed to obey these guys. Just agreeing mentally that you should be obeying these guys is mentally unhealthy and dangerous.
Why would an adult need to obey a church leader in matters that involve personal, private life?
When I think back to our last few years IN...stress, anxiety, constant 'failure', working to find excuses to keep the kids away from the fellowship, never able to keep up with all the ministry busywork(listening to SStapes as a couple, then separately to 'work' it), knowing you're about one issue from getting the boot, knowing your leadership is watching to find that one issue, the vanishing of ministry 'friends', who have picked up that you are out of favor and they don't want to get close lest they too get out of favor', the friendly chit chat after fellowship that is really not friendly and is looking for a weakness or a reason to accuse...we're lucky we didn't have strokes.
My husband and I took a 3 week vacation to visit family in another area in the country. The contrast was huge. Real people, genuinely glad to see you, not looking for trouble but celebrating a visit from family not seen for a few years. A million small kindnesses they didn't even notice they are doing, because that is how they always lived. Laughter when all the little kids moved the modualr furniture into a circle in the den and were found marching round the circle on the furniture, Grandpa piling a bunch of scrap wood on his deck so the little kids could play blocks.
Returning to reproof etc...that's when we left. Finally figured out something was really wrong with God's one true household.
I don't believe it was God almighty giving us *revelation* . . . . i.e. exposing someone's deepest, darkest, and most personal secrets for sport. . . . . or telling us what brand of soap to buy. Not even revealing the *color* of someone's heart. Remember that? Now we are getting into seeing things.
Maybe it was just some kind of inner dialogue with ourselves? That can be very real.
I am sure there were times it turned out to be right. . . . but, I don't think that is proof of anything. People give off signals. . . body language. . . . micro expressions. . . .interests, what they read, focus on, speak of. . . and we watched others. We were on guard. Paranoid enough to spy on each other in the name of *Spiritual perception and awareness*.
We spent a great deal of time in each others lives without proper boundaries. . . most of us were conditioned to believe we needed to know *spiritual* details about others.
It makes sense that if someone consistently lied, or struggled with issues of sexuality, or was naturally charming. . . . we would pick up on that. We didn't always consider before jumping to conclusions. Perhaps that is another carry over issue to deal with.
Some people actually read others for a living. . . jury consultants for example. People are trained to do this.
If you break it down it was not so phenomenal. . . . but, it was insidious. A really good way to control the ranks and to pit us against each other for some percieved greater good. *Discerning of spirits*. . . . well, it makes sense. . . TWI was a breeding ground for vice. Lots of practice material! It spoke to ego. . . . a super speacial x-ray vision power that no one else understood like we did. It made us unique. . . but, maybe not in a good way.
People were hurt, marriages destroyed, children turned out from homes. . . we can even pinpoint an era termed the *Homo Purge*. . . . hello?
Often because of inner dialogue. . . icky stuff. . . and maybe it does in some small way carry over in some lives post TWI. Just look at *Personal Prophecy* that is this inner dialogue on steroids.
The stress we lived under those last years could not be healthy. And what about some of our leaders? I'm pretty sure we were dealing with a mental illness with one of our leaders--and we were supposed to obey these guys. Just agreeing mentally that you should be obeying these guys is mentally unhealthy and dangerous.
I think you're on to something there. There have been quite a few TWI leaders of questionable mental health I've run into. Obsessive / compulsive, anger issues, bipolar, compulsive liars. And all of these with a "rev" title. At the very top now you have a black widow spider that would eat her own young.
"Attention to detail" isn't in and of itself a bad thing. If you met an artisan, officer of the law, or even a firefighter you'd agree that attention to detail is why they are successful in what they do. Surely twi took things to an extreme, but it's always necessary to separate the motive from the action.
WE?...WE?? Who's "we" kemosabe? many of us- maybe even most of us made our own decision to LEAVE early on. I don't know anyone personally who became unable to make his or her own decisions. I'd say that GSC is full of folks who made their own decision to leave.
These broad stroke claims are a disgrace. Sure, twi was phrucked up - and manipulating - but I refuse to give them credit they don't deserve. I've read plenty of posts where people have said that they knew something was off - and they were waiting for the opportunity to leave. Yes it was a complicated decision - but it was a decision all the same. A decision many if not most of us made on our own.
Just who is "we" here"? I never experienced this nail-biting and waiting for some ghost from Christmas future. I didn't know anyone else who did either. You would do better to speak in much less general terms. It's not honest to do otherwise. You can certainly speak for yourself. You can even say that there are others like you. But to say "we" like it's all the posters at GSC who acted and felt the same way is almost arrogantly presumptuous. BTW - I am not awaiting death - I am enjoying watching my children mature and grow - and OH BTW - I never did wait for "the adversary" to come for me and I never agonized over such a thought set.
The day after I left twi, I got up, fed my family, went to work, came home and made dinner - then cleaned up and slept very well. Maybe I should post something like "we all got up, fed our families, went to work, came home and made dinner - then cleaned up and slept very well." Oh wait... I can't do that - because then I wouldn't be speaking just for myself- I'd be projecting my situation on EVERYBODY ELSE. Now that wouldn't be honest, would it?
Relax, Dooj, I was simply discussing the extremes and experiences of myself, my spouse and the people that we had contact with. Biblical sounding teachings to excuse and encourage extreme, offensive, unpleasant and at times dangerous behavior. Thus the *we* mentioned and my opinion as to why it led to mental illness...shrug
So, what were the voices we were hearing?
I don't believe it was God almighty giving us *revelation* . . . . i.e. exposing someone's deepest, darkest, and most personal secrets for sport. . . . . or telling us what brand of soap to buy. Not even revealing the *color* of someone's heart. Remember that? Now we are getting into seeing things.
Maybe it was just some kind of inner dialogue with ourselves? That can be very real.
I am sure there were times it turned out to be right. . . . but, I don't think that is proof of anything. People give off signals. . . body language. . . . micro expressions. . . .interests, what they read, focus on, speak of. . . and we watched others. We were on guard. Paranoid enough to spy on each other in the name of *Spiritual perception and awareness*.
We spent a great deal of time in each others lives without proper boundaries. . . most of us were conditioned to believe we needed to know *spiritual* details about others.
People were hurt, marriages destroyed, children turned out from homes. . . we can even pinpoint an era termed the *Homo Purge*. . . . hello?
I think you're on to something there. There have been quite a few TWI leaders of questionable mental health I've run into. Obsessive / compulsive, anger issues, bipolar, compulsive liars. And all of these with a "rev" title. At the very top now you have a black widow spider that would eat her own young.
Yes, saw these attributes all the way up and down the way tree also, accompanied with great sounding biblical reasons why these things were not only excusable, but admirable. I also think that there is a lot of alcoholism post twi. I think that in many cases this and other long standing issues needing to be addressed are ignored because of the learned distrust of health care providers, and it being seen as weakness.
out of pure stupid curiosity i watched the jesse ventura program "conspiracy theories" and what a load of stuff that sounded just like way international stuff! the episode i watched was all about the "biderberger" group (i think that's what it was). the climax of the whole hour (yes i stupidly watched the whole hour) was that through forcing people to get the h1n1 vaccinations this group was going to not only destroy the human immune system to the point that 9/10s of the world (yes, the program insisted it was going to be the world) population would die off, the survivors would be sterile. well dang. i guess the program hasn't gotten the memo that the h1n1 vaccines aren't getting out like they were supposed to get out. oh and i guess the program also didn't get the memo that the h1n1 pandemic didn't happen. but the whole message of the show was not to trust the health care system at all and ventura had this "doctor" flown in from "someplace in panama" for a "brief standing only" visit in the united states on a tarmac "located somewhere in the midwest" so this "doctor" wouldn't be identified and snatched up by united states officials that are part of this biderberger group and hauled somewhere and shut up. well this "doctor" didn't look so healthy herself and she was obese and gray looking and i could tell she was a smoker, but she proclaimed that she treated "heads of state" in her "drug free clinic" located "somewhere in panama". it just reminded me so much of all the hush hush secrecy surrounding the movements of "leadership" if and when "the adversary" was on the move to "get them", and does anybody remember the "green life" stuff? what i remember was my mom making me take like 5 or 6 pills before i ate anything so that i wouldn't eat as much because those pills would swell up in my stomach and i could live on that granola cereal for days and days without having to eat anything else, but boy oh boy did i fart and belch! but it seems like all the same stuff from all the same not so good thought processes.
Greenlife.----Yes, I remember it. It was made from a combination of cold processed grasses. It was the only nutritional source ingested during the now infamous Colocleanse. (colon detoxification regimen involving a week long fast, accompanied by ingestion of volcanic ash bentonite to scrub the bowels) Controversial, to say the least. It was said that there was enough nutritional value in Greenlife to supply all your daily requirements. One poster here, in particular, can tell you how destructive such treatments can potentially be.
Liquid lecithin was a big craze, as well. It was supposed to sharpen you up mentally so you would be ready to receive revelation on a moment's notice.
Not to be a wiseguy or anything but I'm sure you know that the clinical term for voices in your head is auditory hallucination, which is a classic symptom of paranoid schizophrenia and other mental disorders.
My ex-Way friend has some unusual beliefs that border on the irrational, which are symptomatic of depressive disorders and other things. She's definitely not "crazy" now, though at the time she left I thought it was a little weird of her to leave me, her family and friends to join a religious organization.
I only mention this because the thread is about mental illness.
Many people joined twi were already mentally handicapped or just screwed up in general. When have you seen "normals" come to fellowship and then take the class? (well I haven't).
Then twi told them if they were adv class grads they could get married and make kids.
Relax, Dooj, I was simply discussing the extremes and experiences of myself, my spouse and the people that we had contact with. Biblical sounding teachings to excuse and encourage extreme, offensive, unpleasant and at times dangerous behavior. Thus the *we* mentioned and my opinion as to why it led to mental illness...shrug
No problems. I just think that the more precise the wording of our posts, the more likely they are to help someone.
Many people joined twi were already mentally handicapped or just screwed up in general. When have you seen "normals" come to fellowship and then take the class? (well I haven't).
Then twi told them if they were adv class grads they could get married and make kids.
What a great group.
I noticed that when I was involved, that anybody with any need was promised healing and wholeness through what twi had to offer. There would be no appeal to so called *normals* To any who were vulnerable, the lure was irresistable. Family, stability, love, prosperity, healing...we would jump through hoops for many years to achieve the promised results...In the end, you either came to believe the hype, or realized that you had been suckered all along.
Not to be a wiseguy or anything but I'm sure you know that the clinical term for voices in your head is auditory hallucination, which is a classic symptom of paranoid schizophrenia and other mental disorders.
soul searcher
"Listening to the small still voice" had a metaphorical aspect, as well. This was, in part, what the Advanced Class was about. You see, in the Foundational Class, we were taught that, when the new birth takes place, Christ takes up a permanent residence inside you. (ie: Christ in you----session #5) This Christ in you is supposedly what gives you the ability to speak in tongues and converse directly with God on a spiritual plane. It's geared toward the benefit of the individual student. Then, in the Intermediate Class, we were taught how to operate speaking in tongues with interpretation and prophesy. (forth telling, not foretelling.) That was supposed to be for the benefit of the immediate group as a whole. Do you sense how this is building.? Next, in the Advanced Class, the message is that this "Christ in us" gives us the power to do things that will benefit the entire ministry. So, here's where it gets metaphorical. Because you now have Christ in you, speak in tongues to benefit your own spiritual growth and can operate tongues with interpretation (or prophesy) to benefit the immediate group, you are taken a step farther. In this step, you are taught that it is "Christ's eyes behind your eyes, Christ's ears behind your ears, Christ's nose behind your nose. etc." So, in essence, it means that, even though something may be too trivial for your own ears to pick up, it's supposedly possible for the "Christ in you"'s ears to pick it up. This concept was applied to all five senses. Now, what people would do is observe something they assumed was beyond the realm of ordinary observation and deduce that this was the small still voice of revelation from God.Here's an example. Suppose you are preparing meat that has a slightly "off" odor. Naturally, this MUST be God "telling you" that the meat is spoiled. I'm sure you can think of a multitude of similar examples. So, it's not just about hearing audible voices or seeing hallucinations, though Wierwille did, in fact, claim that he did.
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brainfixed
yah it's like being in preschool or something and playing "mother may i" or something. it's kind of hit me square in the face why it took me so long to learn self determination but here the answer is
T-Bone
then you had idiots like me - rushing cuz I'm late for work or ministry meeting - believing God to make the red light go green "booms quick".
doojable
"Attention to detail" isn't in and of itself a bad thing. If you met an artisan, officer of the law, or even a firefighter you'd agree that attention to detail is why they are successful in what they
geisha779
Not only did he teach us to fear. . . fear. . . which has got to take real talent. . .. but, VP also took things we read like. . . in this life you will have many troubles. . . and somehow convinced most . . . . . . if you have troubles in this life something is wrong with your "believing".
Well, if you "believe" what is says. . . troubles seem a natural outcome in this life. . . no?
How did he get most of us to disregard what was actually written. . . . and believe the opposite??
How did he do that?
Fascinating. . . . . and some people will go to the grave convinced he was right.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Funny stuff...all of it true.
Sometimes I think of those years (13 for me), as a trip to the "hall of mirrors" at the carnival...the minute I left, I felt liberated and never looked back. I knew these people were scum and that I had been conned.
..."and Lo, I shall bend you over and have my way with you, you shall be a cloud with no water for I shall drink your water"...
Hmmm...Rumrunners post didn't show up here ...I guess it was because I was trying to quote a quote?...anyway...go back and read post #21...
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waysider
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krys
Personally, I enjoy your sense of humoar waysider but I' m a bit concerned about some of the newer posters here getting distracted and thinking the whole thing is one bloody joke. But I do like your style.
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waysider
Well, there is humor in it, I agree, but, then there is a serious side to it if you consider the lyrics.
When you wish upon a star
Makes no difference who you are
Anything your heart desires
Will come to you
If your heart is in your dream
No request is too extreme
When you wish upon a star
As dreamers do
Fate is kind
She brings to those who love
The sweet fulfillment of
Their secret longing
Like a bolt out of the blue
Fate steps in and sees you through
When you wish upon a star
Your dreams come true
That could describe several things, such as The Green Card ("anything your heart desires") and The Law of Believing ("makes no difference who you are.").
And then, you have the analogies that can be drawn from the journey Pinochio takes from being a puppet, to being exploited, to all the hardships it causes him, and, of course, it all works out in due time. (hopefully)
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waysider
Looking at it on a more serious note, we learned in The Way that believers were special because they could actually change things in the physical world but simply thinking about them. Renewed mind, Law of Believing, Dealing With the Adversary etc. (I don't care how many times people point to the scripture that says we can move mountains, I simply don't accept that as being literal.) Or how about this: We were taught that there was some sort of magic bubble surrounding us because we were the "one true household". Hellooooo! It was a cult. There was never any magic bubble. And that's, perhaps, some of the easier stuff to overcome. How about the way you automatically respond to oppressive authority? Do you automatically buckle under to it? Or, do you find yourself infuriated by it and hell-bent on defying it? Do you find yourself having to always be right about everything? There's more. Lots more. Some of it is very subtle. That's the stuff that comes out when you least expect it.
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Ham
So.. what do we do now..
:)
well.. we *do*.. but you might know what I mean..
I don't know if I do..
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waysider
What do we do?
I'm not sure. The answer to that, IMO, has to be tailored to the individual, because, everyone was affected in their own personal way. For me, there was a lot of guilt about leaving that had to be addressed. I couldn't do that until I understood what exactly it was that I had left. What you have to deal with may be completely different. I think, though, we all have to start with some of the basics. The doctrines, like the law of believing and hedge of protection and devils hiding in the bushes just waiting to pounce on you. Then, we have to take a critical look at the lifestyle we lived and consider how that shaped the way we think and behave and react. This is all, of course, just my opinion. Yours may be completely different. And who's to say what course of action is right or how long the journey should take? You have to chart that course yourself.
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Ham
Maybe I have..
well.. maybe its more like.. the course has charted itself for me..
if it makes any difference.. I saw some light in your posts..
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krys
there's plenty of light in his posts.
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krys
I'm glad waysider alluded to the individuality of our unique journeys! And some of us may not be finished with the process. I just noticed a small bolop of green goo in my own surroundings not too long ago and I thought I was pretty well done!!!
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Bramble
The stress we lived under those last years could not be healthy. And what about some of our leaders? I'm pretty sure we were dealing with a mental illness with one of our leaders--and we were supposed to obey these guys. Just agreeing mentally that you should be obeying these guys is mentally unhealthy and dangerous.
Why would an adult need to obey a church leader in matters that involve personal, private life?
When I think back to our last few years IN...stress, anxiety, constant 'failure', working to find excuses to keep the kids away from the fellowship, never able to keep up with all the ministry busywork(listening to SStapes as a couple, then separately to 'work' it), knowing you're about one issue from getting the boot, knowing your leadership is watching to find that one issue, the vanishing of ministry 'friends', who have picked up that you are out of favor and they don't want to get close lest they too get out of favor', the friendly chit chat after fellowship that is really not friendly and is looking for a weakness or a reason to accuse...we're lucky we didn't have strokes.
My husband and I took a 3 week vacation to visit family in another area in the country. The contrast was huge. Real people, genuinely glad to see you, not looking for trouble but celebrating a visit from family not seen for a few years. A million small kindnesses they didn't even notice they are doing, because that is how they always lived. Laughter when all the little kids moved the modualr furniture into a circle in the den and were found marching round the circle on the furniture, Grandpa piling a bunch of scrap wood on his deck so the little kids could play blocks.
Returning to reproof etc...that's when we left. Finally figured out something was really wrong with God's one true household.
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geisha779
So, what were the voices we were hearing?
I don't believe it was God almighty giving us *revelation* . . . . i.e. exposing someone's deepest, darkest, and most personal secrets for sport. . . . . or telling us what brand of soap to buy. Not even revealing the *color* of someone's heart. Remember that? Now we are getting into seeing things.
Maybe it was just some kind of inner dialogue with ourselves? That can be very real.
I am sure there were times it turned out to be right. . . . but, I don't think that is proof of anything. People give off signals. . . body language. . . . micro expressions. . . .interests, what they read, focus on, speak of. . . and we watched others. We were on guard. Paranoid enough to spy on each other in the name of *Spiritual perception and awareness*.
We spent a great deal of time in each others lives without proper boundaries. . . most of us were conditioned to believe we needed to know *spiritual* details about others.
It makes sense that if someone consistently lied, or struggled with issues of sexuality, or was naturally charming. . . . we would pick up on that. We didn't always consider before jumping to conclusions. Perhaps that is another carry over issue to deal with.
Some people actually read others for a living. . . jury consultants for example. People are trained to do this.
If you break it down it was not so phenomenal. . . . but, it was insidious. A really good way to control the ranks and to pit us against each other for some percieved greater good. *Discerning of spirits*. . . . well, it makes sense. . . TWI was a breeding ground for vice. Lots of practice material! It spoke to ego. . . . a super speacial x-ray vision power that no one else understood like we did. It made us unique. . . but, maybe not in a good way.
People were hurt, marriages destroyed, children turned out from homes. . . we can even pinpoint an era termed the *Homo Purge*. . . . hello?
Often because of inner dialogue. . . icky stuff. . . and maybe it does in some small way carry over in some lives post TWI. Just look at *Personal Prophecy* that is this inner dialogue on steroids.
I think God has little to do with any of this.
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chockfull
I think you're on to something there. There have been quite a few TWI leaders of questionable mental health I've run into. Obsessive / compulsive, anger issues, bipolar, compulsive liars. And all of these with a "rev" title. At the very top now you have a black widow spider that would eat her own young.
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rascal
Relax, Dooj, I was simply discussing the extremes and experiences of myself, my spouse and the people that we had contact with. Biblical sounding teachings to excuse and encourage extreme, offensive, unpleasant and at times dangerous behavior. Thus the *we* mentioned and my opinion as to why it led to mental illness...shrug
I completely agree geisha
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rascal
Yes, saw these attributes all the way up and down the way tree also, accompanied with great sounding biblical reasons why these things were not only excusable, but admirable. I also think that there is a lot of alcoholism post twi. I think that in many cases this and other long standing issues needing to be addressed are ignored because of the learned distrust of health care providers, and it being seen as weakness.
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brainfixed
out of pure stupid curiosity i watched the jesse ventura program "conspiracy theories" and what a load of stuff that sounded just like way international stuff! the episode i watched was all about the "biderberger" group (i think that's what it was). the climax of the whole hour (yes i stupidly watched the whole hour) was that through forcing people to get the h1n1 vaccinations this group was going to not only destroy the human immune system to the point that 9/10s of the world (yes, the program insisted it was going to be the world) population would die off, the survivors would be sterile. well dang. i guess the program hasn't gotten the memo that the h1n1 vaccines aren't getting out like they were supposed to get out. oh and i guess the program also didn't get the memo that the h1n1 pandemic didn't happen. but the whole message of the show was not to trust the health care system at all and ventura had this "doctor" flown in from "someplace in panama" for a "brief standing only" visit in the united states on a tarmac "located somewhere in the midwest" so this "doctor" wouldn't be identified and snatched up by united states officials that are part of this biderberger group and hauled somewhere and shut up. well this "doctor" didn't look so healthy herself and she was obese and gray looking and i could tell she was a smoker, but she proclaimed that she treated "heads of state" in her "drug free clinic" located "somewhere in panama". it just reminded me so much of all the hush hush secrecy surrounding the movements of "leadership" if and when "the adversary" was on the move to "get them", and does anybody remember the "green life" stuff? what i remember was my mom making me take like 5 or 6 pills before i ate anything so that i wouldn't eat as much because those pills would swell up in my stomach and i could live on that granola cereal for days and days without having to eat anything else, but boy oh boy did i fart and belch! but it seems like all the same stuff from all the same not so good thought processes.
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waysider
Greenlife.----Yes, I remember it. It was made from a combination of cold processed grasses. It was the only nutritional source ingested during the now infamous Colocleanse. (colon detoxification regimen involving a week long fast, accompanied by ingestion of volcanic ash bentonite to scrub the bowels) Controversial, to say the least. It was said that there was enough nutritional value in Greenlife to supply all your daily requirements. One poster here, in particular, can tell you how destructive such treatments can potentially be.
Liquid lecithin was a big craze, as well. It was supposed to sharpen you up mentally so you would be ready to receive revelation on a moment's notice.
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soul searcher
Not to be a wiseguy or anything but I'm sure you know that the clinical term for voices in your head is auditory hallucination, which is a classic symptom of paranoid schizophrenia and other mental disorders.
My ex-Way friend has some unusual beliefs that border on the irrational, which are symptomatic of depressive disorders and other things. She's definitely not "crazy" now, though at the time she left I thought it was a little weird of her to leave me, her family and friends to join a religious organization.
I only mention this because the thread is about mental illness.
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Bolshevik
Many people joined twi were already mentally handicapped or just screwed up in general. When have you seen "normals" come to fellowship and then take the class? (well I haven't).
Then twi told them if they were adv class grads they could get married and make kids.
What a great group.
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doojable
No problems. I just think that the more precise the wording of our posts, the more likely they are to help someone.
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rascal
I noticed that when I was involved, that anybody with any need was promised healing and wholeness through what twi had to offer. There would be no appeal to so called *normals* To any who were vulnerable, the lure was irresistable. Family, stability, love, prosperity, healing...we would jump through hoops for many years to achieve the promised results...In the end, you either came to believe the hype, or realized that you had been suckered all along.
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waysider
soul searcher
"Listening to the small still voice" had a metaphorical aspect, as well. This was, in part, what the Advanced Class was about. You see, in the Foundational Class, we were taught that, when the new birth takes place, Christ takes up a permanent residence inside you. (ie: Christ in you----session #5) This Christ in you is supposedly what gives you the ability to speak in tongues and converse directly with God on a spiritual plane. It's geared toward the benefit of the individual student. Then, in the Intermediate Class, we were taught how to operate speaking in tongues with interpretation and prophesy. (forth telling, not foretelling.) That was supposed to be for the benefit of the immediate group as a whole. Do you sense how this is building.? Next, in the Advanced Class, the message is that this "Christ in us" gives us the power to do things that will benefit the entire ministry. So, here's where it gets metaphorical. Because you now have Christ in you, speak in tongues to benefit your own spiritual growth and can operate tongues with interpretation (or prophesy) to benefit the immediate group, you are taken a step farther. In this step, you are taught that it is "Christ's eyes behind your eyes, Christ's ears behind your ears, Christ's nose behind your nose. etc." So, in essence, it means that, even though something may be too trivial for your own ears to pick up, it's supposedly possible for the "Christ in you"'s ears to pick it up. This concept was applied to all five senses. Now, what people would do is observe something they assumed was beyond the realm of ordinary observation and deduce that this was the small still voice of revelation from God.Here's an example. Suppose you are preparing meat that has a slightly "off" odor. Naturally, this MUST be God "telling you" that the meat is spoiled. I'm sure you can think of a multitude of similar examples. So, it's not just about hearing audible voices or seeing hallucinations, though Wierwille did, in fact, claim that he did.
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dmiller
Not sure what time period you're talking about Bolshevik, but back in the early 1970's,
there were many "normal" folks who signed up for and took the class. Looking for knowledge;
interested in learning; exploring "new avenues"; etc. I (and 3 of my closest friends) took pfal
to see what it had to offer. None of us were "mentally handicapped" or "screwed up", to my recollection.
We were younger then, and the world offered a plethora of possibilities. pfal was one of them.
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