In my brief time in TWI proper I was sold out to and sold the concept of TWI being a biblical research ministry. I often parroted the idea that if we (TWI that is) learned something new we would change the doctrine to line up with what we learned from the bible. In many respects I still feel that some of these ideas are how it should be done in any church, period.
But what I didn't know was the reality of how things really ran at TWI in the proximity of top leadership and how that all of the ideals that I believed in back in the early eighties were very far from how TWI actually ran the "research" part of the ministry.
I often parroted the idea that if we (TWI that is) learned something new we would change the doctrine to line up with what we learned from the bible. In many respects I still feel that some of these ideas are how it should be done in any church, period.
Yes! I went way disciple twice,an entire year of 40 hours of witnessing per week. I have told countless people that line about new research and TWI willingness to change their writings and have humility to the bible. I was sorely deceived and the subsequent disillusionment when I found out the truth was rough. The sad truth is they will not change what is considered proven ministry research. Period. The logic, if you could call it that, is once it's proven true it doesn't change because truth doesn't change. Whats true is true. End of story.
You're exposing a lot by bringing to light those details. For a group who calls themselves a "Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship" ministry, you've exposed that there is really virtually no "Biblical research" going on, and that which does happen is tightly controlled and micromanaged from the top.
Of further note that I'm aware of is that their practices in research are once the topic is assigned, researched, and taught such as the work by Rico on debt, then they will not consider any further research presented by anyone on the topic. I'm aware of a number of individuals presenting additional research on the debt topic who were dealt with in similar manners to John Schoenheit. They were told "we are no longer researching that topic". Then they were blackballed and ostracized, stripped of responsibility and status. So their "research" is not reviewed by others for accuracy in a forum they can speak freely. It is not revisited after time for relevance and accuracy. And research that leads to different conclusions is hidden and retribution visited upon those researching.
I've heard more times than I can recall that research is "Re-Search", or searching out again that which has already been searched. That is the Way's definition of research. In VPW's day it was plagiarism. Now it is dogma. Jesus Christ himself would call them "whited sepulchres". They whitewash and ensrhine that which was stolen in the first place. And for quite some time now they have operated in the fashion VPW himself used to criticize the Roman Catholic church for, with priorities of 1) What the Pope declares ex-cathedra 2) Traditions of the Church and 3) Scripture. The Way does that exclusively now.
Thanks and you're welcome. I plan to break this topic down a little further and get into how teachings are produced. It doesn't matter the teaching avenue or who teaches (except maybe Queen Rosalie??), teachings are whitewashed and molded through the same process. It doesn't matter who the current mouth piece is they do not have their own psalm or their own doctrine but a cookie cutter presentation of approved topics that are administered in a very heavy handed, systematic method. Which will further prove that TWI is lying that they are a research ministry. One would think that teaching topics are researched by the teacher and that the teacher is free to present new light, etc. The teachers are under a very heavy hand, and what research they do is actually cross checking their topic with what has previously been taught. When I post it up I will detail the whole process.
The teachers are under a very heavy hand, and what research they do is actually cross checking their topic with what has previously been taught.
I can tell you this, that they are following a looonnnggg tradition of doing this in TWI. When we (the research team) worked on the Literal Translations according to Usage with W*lter C*ummins in 1984-86 in preparation for his Corps teachings, we had to cross check our findings with former VPW teachings on the verses we were "working" so that we didn't come up with anything different (or too different) than what VP had already taught on the matter, specifically I and II Thessalonians during those two years. I know they had to do that in previous years, too.
A particularly sad story for me now is hearing how TWI rejected Scheinheit's research paper saying adultery was wrong around the time of POP.
Twisted TWIt leadership....
Do you know that's why he got fired from the research team?
I can tell you this, that they are following a looonnnggg tradition of doing this in TWI. When we (the research team) worked on the Literal Translations according to Usage with W*lter C*ummins in 1984-86 in preparation for his Corps teachings, we had to cross check our findings with former VPW teachings on the verses we were "working" so that we didn't come up with anything different (or too different) than what VP had already taught on the matter, specifically I and II Thessalonians during those two years. I know they had to do that in previous years, too.
I had no idea this crap was that deep rooted. Rosalie has taken it to a new level and enshrined the practice. That explains where it came from though, the board of directors (including Rosalie) have very few original thoughts with which to lead and guide the followers of the little corn field cult.
Before I was way corps or had held top leadership positions I thought the teachings were the work of the teachers and that the teachers did biblical research, and that the way ministry had people dedicated to biblical research. I was aghast when I learned the truth. It was another reason in a long list that led to my eventual departure and finally waking up from that cult.
W*yn* Cl*pp did research for awhile while I was on Staff at HQ. That is until LCM totally trashed him and sent him packing. My understanding is WC confronted LCM about his sexual improprieties. I remember LCM saying at lunch that WC was doing shoddy work, and he couldn't put his finger on why he feltl that way until he justified to himself that WC needed to go. It was an excuse and a rant. Typical LCM crap which doesn't surprise me in the least bit right now. I remember feeling bummed WC left. He seemed so approachable and a genuine caring type. I don't know him personally, but that's the vibe I got from him. LCM gave me the creeps even when I was on Staff and believed he was the MOG. I thought I was just afraid to be in the presence of the MOG. Now I see it was my gut instincts talking to me.
I was looking at the photos on the wall of shame, the guys vpw supposedly "learned from". I asked where Walter Cummins was. She said he left. I was like, didn't he do a lot of research? shouldn't he be up here? she was like, the research has been done, although we do re-search.
it was pathetic.
guess the other guys on the wall died before they were aware of any loyalty to vpw/twi.
I was looking at the photos on the wall of shame, the guys vpw supposedly "learned from". I asked where Walter Cummins was. She said he left. I was like, didn't he do a lot of research? shouldn't he be up here? she was like, the research has been done, although we do re-search.
it was pathetic.
guess the other guys on the wall died before they were aware of any loyalty to vpw/twi.
Just for the record, W*lter C*mmins left around the time LCM demanded that loyalty oath thing, I believe. I do not know the exact year or exact circumstances, since he left years after I left. W*lter was 16 when he got into TWI, so although VPW probably learned some things from him later in life after W*lter learned some Greek, mostly it was the other way around.
Although W*lter had been VP's assistant researcher since the early 1970s, and led the research department from then on, VP put W*lter in charge of research 100% when VP retired in 1982; at the same time LCM was made President.
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waysider
Well, it is, after all, just a cult.
Know what I mean?
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OldSkool
Yep.
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Twinky
Never was a research dept. Should have been called the "Plagiarism Dept."
Guess they might have been "re-searching" for new material to plagiarize.
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skyrider
Making a case for twi's "proven ministry research"........is like focusing on the table ediquette of a Jeffrey Dahmer.
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JeffSjo
In my brief time in TWI proper I was sold out to and sold the concept of TWI being a biblical research ministry. I often parroted the idea that if we (TWI that is) learned something new we would change the doctrine to line up with what we learned from the bible. In many respects I still feel that some of these ideas are how it should be done in any church, period.
But what I didn't know was the reality of how things really ran at TWI in the proximity of top leadership and how that all of the ideals that I believed in back in the early eighties were very far from how TWI actually ran the "research" part of the ministry.
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OldSkool
Yes! I went way disciple twice,an entire year of 40 hours of witnessing per week. I have told countless people that line about new research and TWI willingness to change their writings and have humility to the bible. I was sorely deceived and the subsequent disillusionment when I found out the truth was rough. The sad truth is they will not change what is considered proven ministry research. Period. The logic, if you could call it that, is once it's proven true it doesn't change because truth doesn't change. Whats true is true. End of story.
Hold up, I need some more koolaid
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JeffSjo
A particularly sad story for me now is hearing how TWI rejected Scheinheit's research paper saying adultery was wrong around the time of POP.
Twisted TWIt leadership....
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chockfull
Great post, Old Skool.
You're exposing a lot by bringing to light those details. For a group who calls themselves a "Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship" ministry, you've exposed that there is really virtually no "Biblical research" going on, and that which does happen is tightly controlled and micromanaged from the top.
Of further note that I'm aware of is that their practices in research are once the topic is assigned, researched, and taught such as the work by Rico on debt, then they will not consider any further research presented by anyone on the topic. I'm aware of a number of individuals presenting additional research on the debt topic who were dealt with in similar manners to John Schoenheit. They were told "we are no longer researching that topic". Then they were blackballed and ostracized, stripped of responsibility and status. So their "research" is not reviewed by others for accuracy in a forum they can speak freely. It is not revisited after time for relevance and accuracy. And research that leads to different conclusions is hidden and retribution visited upon those researching.
I've heard more times than I can recall that research is "Re-Search", or searching out again that which has already been searched. That is the Way's definition of research. In VPW's day it was plagiarism. Now it is dogma. Jesus Christ himself would call them "whited sepulchres". They whitewash and ensrhine that which was stolen in the first place. And for quite some time now they have operated in the fashion VPW himself used to criticize the Roman Catholic church for, with priorities of 1) What the Pope declares ex-cathedra 2) Traditions of the Church and 3) Scripture. The Way does that exclusively now.
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penworks
Thanks for the current info, O.S. As you mentioned, there are lots of threads here about TWI so-called biblical research. Here's an oldie but goodie:
Research ministry?
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OldSkool
Thanks and you're welcome. I plan to break this topic down a little further and get into how teachings are produced. It doesn't matter the teaching avenue or who teaches (except maybe Queen Rosalie??), teachings are whitewashed and molded through the same process. It doesn't matter who the current mouth piece is they do not have their own psalm or their own doctrine but a cookie cutter presentation of approved topics that are administered in a very heavy handed, systematic method. Which will further prove that TWI is lying that they are a research ministry. One would think that teaching topics are researched by the teacher and that the teacher is free to present new light, etc. The teachers are under a very heavy hand, and what research they do is actually cross checking their topic with what has previously been taught. When I post it up I will detail the whole process.
Stay tuned.
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penworks
I can tell you this, that they are following a looonnnggg tradition of doing this in TWI. When we (the research team) worked on the Literal Translations according to Usage with W*lter C*ummins in 1984-86 in preparation for his Corps teachings, we had to cross check our findings with former VPW teachings on the verses we were "working" so that we didn't come up with anything different (or too different) than what VP had already taught on the matter, specifically I and II Thessalonians during those two years. I know they had to do that in previous years, too.
Do you know that's why he got fired from the research team?
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excathedra
i don't really care
biblical research has never helped my life
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OldSkool
I had no idea this crap was that deep rooted. Rosalie has taken it to a new level and enshrined the practice. That explains where it came from though, the board of directors (including Rosalie) have very few original thoughts with which to lead and guide the followers of the little corn field cult.
Before I was way corps or had held top leadership positions I thought the teachings were the work of the teachers and that the teachers did biblical research, and that the way ministry had people dedicated to biblical research. I was aghast when I learned the truth. It was another reason in a long list that led to my eventual departure and finally waking up from that cult.
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cheranne
If you want Biblical Research go to
Precepts Ministries. I went there to relearn
the stuff I was taught wrongly in TWI Carnival
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Nottawayfer
W*yn* Cl*pp did research for awhile while I was on Staff at HQ. That is until LCM totally trashed him and sent him packing. My understanding is WC confronted LCM about his sexual improprieties. I remember LCM saying at lunch that WC was doing shoddy work, and he couldn't put his finger on why he feltl that way until he justified to himself that WC needed to go. It was an excuse and a rant. Typical LCM crap which doesn't surprise me in the least bit right now. I remember feeling bummed WC left. He seemed so approachable and a genuine caring type. I don't know him personally, but that's the vibe I got from him. LCM gave me the creeps even when I was on Staff and believed he was the MOG. I thought I was just afraid to be in the presence of the MOG. Now I see it was my gut instincts talking to me.
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Bolshevik
Hi chauvostie! . . . Sorry to offend you! . . . Wait . . . No I ain't.
What was her name? Jeez . . . Re- search. Not resaerch.
So ....ed was I. Oh well.
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Bolshevik
Re-search.
Re-search.
Really.
Can't believe any adult stayed with twi.
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Bolshevik
Re-search.
Felt like burning the auditorium.
Only cowards join a cult.
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Bolshevik
I was looking at the photos on the wall of shame, the guys vpw supposedly "learned from". I asked where Walter Cummins was. She said he left. I was like, didn't he do a lot of research? shouldn't he be up here? she was like, the research has been done, although we do re-search.
it was pathetic.
guess the other guys on the wall died before they were aware of any loyalty to vpw/twi.
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penworks
Just for the record, W*lter C*mmins left around the time LCM demanded that loyalty oath thing, I believe. I do not know the exact year or exact circumstances, since he left years after I left. W*lter was 16 when he got into TWI, so although VPW probably learned some things from him later in life after W*lter learned some Greek, mostly it was the other way around.
Although W*lter had been VP's assistant researcher since the early 1970s, and led the research department from then on, VP put W*lter in charge of research 100% when VP retired in 1982; at the same time LCM was made President.
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Bolshevik
He had a number of books that looked similar to vpw's? Probably "researched" in like manner.
He was one author waybots were ordered to purge.
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chockfull
By and large one of the largest snooze-fest inducing teachers of all time. Not even saved by the bow ties.
Almost as boring as Corps teachings the last 5 years.....
This....is....a.....can......
This....is....how...to.......read....a.....can....label.....
Isn't....that....a......blessing......?????
We were either really stupid or had to pretend to be or one led to the other. I had to practice my Forrest Gump face.
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OldSkool
Nothing is that boring.
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