In all of the studies I have been in I like to challenge the one teaching. I encourage it in my own students as well. I just learn better in a dialogue and I just do it out of my own nature. Will I have to keep my mouth shut the hole time?
My wife is also afraid if we show up they might think she would be coming back when we definitely wouldn't. She just thinks it might help me understand the way better. I just feel like I ask too many questions.
In all of the studies I have been in have been in I like to challenge the one teaching. I encourage it in my own students as well. I just learn better in a dialogue and I just do it out of my own nature. Will I have to keep my mouth shut the hole time?
My wife is also afraid if we show up they might think she would be coming back when we definitely wouldn't. She just thinks it might help me understand the way better. I just feel like I ask too many questions.
People on this forum have all had different experiences. There was a long period where leaders were poorly chosen, lacked training, and may not have been the best choice. But then again at the same time there have also been fellowships that have been the greatest.
In the fellowship I attend now, your 'challenges' would be welcomed. There is a desire to keep things 'in order'. Which simply means to be respectful during the fellowship, but once we break for coffee or a meal; then it is fair game to ask questions, or 'challenge' anyone.
We rotate among us each week for who is going to present something. Really if you challenged me, I would like it. I like doing 'word studies', so any opportunity to open the Bible and look at a context, or usages of a term is largely what we do.
It is kind of boring if nobody ever does that. :)
I think that among my fellowship your honest questions would be welcome and encouraged.
They won't skin you alive and eat you or anything like that. Your questions will be welcomed.....as long as you agree with their answers.
Really, though, I don't foresee how you would benefit from the experience. You have to remember that they are essentially a multi-level-marketing type organization. The MLM concept is what fuels the machine so, I would think they would probably be nice to you and make you feel welcome. We used to call it love bombing. I suppose, after all these years, they have probably refined that technique to make it less obvious, though.
Also, I doubt that you'll be exposed to the underbelly of the beast at the local level. That generally doesn't happen until you make a commitment and start rising up through the ranks. I personally never saw the dark side until I entered an in-residence training program.
Ultimately, no one can tell you whether you should do this or not. Good luck, whatever choice you decide to make.
My wife said I should attend a fellowship to see what it is like. Just to experience it. So I can be more informed on how they operate.
What do you think?
Unfortunately, the problem with just attending a fellowship "to be more informed on how they operate" isn't very realistic. "How they operate" is pretty well exposed on this website, and it's among the only places that the truth comes out about that. You won't see "how they operate" at a local fellowship. You won't even see an accurate portrayal of how the fellowship operates until you are there for longer than you think. Many of us took decades of our life dedicated to this group only to find out well into it "how they operate". And that is present tense, starting with the current BOD and the current President. This is not a phenomenon where past leaders weren't so good but the current ones are better. The current leadership of TWI is probably more evil even than the past leadership. Look at the fruit of their lives, and the wake of damaged people behind them. Pharisees are the biblical term whereby you can understand them the best.
At a local fellowship, when you first attend, people will be nice to you. There's a concept called "love bombing", which many people currently in TWI don't like the term, but it is accurate. People will shower you with positive emotion, reinforcement, "love", and the encouragement will build to "take the class". From there it is a consistent pattern of increasing levels of indoctrination and "commitment" - selling your soul to TWI leadership and their political structure.
What's a fellowship like? Well the service is not too far removed from your normal church service. Songs, prayer, manifestations, offering, teaching, closing song, snacks after. What's the difference? It's in someone's house. There's a spin to that about it being "just like they did it in Acts". However, in reality in Acts they didn't have a budgetary structure where 75% of your abundant sharing (minimum 10% of your net paycheck - tithe / 15% - 20% abundant sharing) goes to TWI headquarters and 25% is spent within the local area it originated in (usually in the form of paying the salary of a region coordinator).
So I would liken going to a fellowship with going fishing where you are the fish. You will experience some very tasty bait. And hopefully you'll be able to avoid the hook. If you don't you might find yourself years down the road asking "why".
There was a long period where leaders were poorly chosen, lacked training, and may not have been the best choice.
So to expand on this - starting currently - the current President was chosen due to a sex scandal combined with developing a deep and questionable relationship with the former President's wife which was used as political maneuvering to be placed as the 2nd in command so as to capitalize on the sex scandal. None at the top levels have training on how to run corporations. Best choice? Rather transparent.
The past 2 Presidents have had severe issues with sex scandals, have a history of damaging many of their own top people's lives irreparably. The second president was chosen due to unquestioning obedience. Best choice?
The Way Corps - a group with over a 90% attrition rate over time (I guess you'd call that poorly chosen), the training consists of learning unquestioning obedience to leadership, and salesmanship of classes, and going over and over and over current publications. That's not so much lacking training but training the wrong things to be ministers. Best choices?
So to expand on this - starting currently - the current President was chosen due to a sex scandal combined with developing a deep and questionable relationship with the former President's wife which was used as political maneuvering to be placed as the 2nd in command so as to capitalize on the sex scandal. None at the top levels have training on how to run corporations. Best choice? Rather transparent.
The past 2 Presidents have had severe issues with sex scandals, have a history of damaging many of their own top people's lives irreparably. The second president was chosen due to unquestioning obedience. Best choice?
The Way Corps - a group with over a 90% attrition rate over time (I guess you'd call that poorly chosen), the training consists of learning unquestioning obedience to leadership, and salesmanship of classes, and going over and over and over current publications. That's not so much lacking training but training the wrong things to be ministers. Best choices?
What I said was not in the context of ministry BOD or presidents. I was only talking about Twig coordinators and Corpse personnel.
I do understand that there have been issues with past and present presidents; though I have never known any of them, nor have I ever had any dealings with them. Since the people that you wish to discuss would be strangers to me, I feel it would be inappropriate for me to talk about them.
What I said was not in the context of ministry BOD or presidents. I was only talking about Twig coordinators and Corpse personnel.
I do understand that there have been issues with past and present presidents; though I have never known any of them, nor have I ever had any dealings with them. Since the people that you wish to discuss would be strangers to me, I feel it would be inappropriate for me to talk about them.
But it's not inappropriate that of the money you put in the horn 75% of it goes to pay their salaries? Wow. This is called being an "enabler".
I'm not trying to be too harsh here, Galen. This is a very common attitude among TWI'ers. "Just take care of yourselves and your twig and God will sort out the rest". But there are blinders on. The majority are being used to enable the evil that goes on at the top. This is why when I became aware of it and realized it was not going to change I voted with my feet. My life, talents, energies, money, free time, education, expertise will NOT be used to enable the abuse that runs rampant in this cult. And I won't turn a blind eye to it any more, I will expose it. The only way evil exists is when good people do nothing to stop it.
But it's not inappropriate that of the money you put in the horn 75% of it goes to pay their salaries? Wow. This is called being an "enabler".
I'm not trying to be too harsh here, Galen. This is a very common attitude among TWI'ers. "Just take care of yourselves and your twig and God will sort out the rest". But there are blinders on. The majority are being used to enable the evil that goes on at the top. This is why when I became aware of it and realized it was not going to change I voted with my feet. My life, talents, energies, money, free time, education, expertise will NOT be used to enable the abuse that runs rampant in this cult. And I won't turn a blind eye to it any more, I will expose it. The only way evil exists is when good people do nothing to stop it.
When I was a teen, I was a member of my local Southern Baptist church. Their tithe went to paying the salary of our minister, a custodian, a secretary, etc. The rest went to the Southern Baptist Convention.
Then about the time I was a senior in high school it came out that most of our money had gone to South America where it had been supporting revolutionaries there. An investigation about the killings of missionaries showed that it was our tithe money that had paid for their weapons.
I know all about the ways in which tithe money can be used to churches.
Today I am a member of a men's fraternity, who has been openly hunted by various governments at the bequest of the Roman Catholic Church. In fact as a US servicemember I served in a nation where my fraternity is 'illegal' and members who are discovered are subject to imprisonment. All thanks to the tithes of Catholics.
As far as I know, EVERY church that takes tithe is likely doing evil with it. This is the nature of organized churches. They are businesses. They operate on a bottom line, they must show a profit so they can support their salaried personnel.
This is not about blinding anyone's eyes.
I found wonderful truths about God while I was first attending a twig.
I have also had run-ins with corpses. The first Corpse Grad I ever met was an arsehole, I caught him lying to believers, he admitted it to me and I made it known to the believers he was lying to. He [steve Strezpec] proclaimed to everyone that I was born of Satan's seed and threw me out of the fellowship.
In fact most corpses I have ever met were arseholes; but that does not over-ride the fact that I have also met a great many wonderful believers.
We have seen healings and miracles. Through out all of the horrible abuses that leaders have done, there has also been some very special people who I am glad that I knew.
Among all of this there have also been a few leaders who have been good men. Of course anywhere you look, when people strive to be leaders they are usually power hungry arseholes. That is life.
I served for over 20 years in the Navy, I know all about arseholes. Simply because a few exist is not reason to trash the entire US Navy. Nor is it reason to trash all of the good that is done in twigs.
The 'life' of the Way is in the twigs. The twig we are in now is great. Got a question about anything? Lets open concordances, lexicons, Bibles and study it.
Our Limb Coordinator now is a great guy. I have known him for 30+ years. He is not power hungry, nor does he have any evil intent. Rather he is pretty knowledgeable of the Bible and very loving.
Since the people that you wish to discuss would be strangers to me, I feel it would be inappropriate for me to talk about them.
I know them up close and personal. Worked for the directors in fact. I have left a lot of information on here confirming what others who were before me have written for years. If the organization that sponsors the fellowships is corrupt then what good can come out of the fellowships. Fellowships lead to classes on the field which lead to classes at HQ which lead to programs etc. Fellowships only serve to groom candidates to serve (slave) for the way international's MLM schemes. But like I said. Go - see for yourself.
I haven't been to a twig in years. I'm willing to bet, though, that any " opening the Bible and studying" that's done will be heavily tempered with Way doctrine. (ie: "What does The Blue Book say?")
I haven't been to a twig in years. I'm willing to bet, though, that any " opening the Bible and studying" that's done will be heavily tempered with Way doctrine. (ie: "What does The Blue Book say?"
All roads in a way international fellowship lead to approved answers coming from approved ministry sources that contain proven ministry research.
No matter that it is only "proven" because it's approved by Rosie and the yes men a.k.a the BOD of which chairman Rosie is head.
Our center of reference was always PFAL, et al.. Yes, we SAID it was the Bible but, it was really what PFAL told us the Bible said.
Take, for example, the scripture being dealt with currently in the "The poor you have always with you." thread. Any apparent contradiction must be resolved using criteria set forth in the PFAL class or its companion classes/materials if it's going to coincide with the general tenets of TWI..
(Not written to us, different administration, mystery not yet revealed, spirit "in" us not yet available, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah.)
All roads in a way international fellowship lead to approved answers coming from approved ministry sources that contain proven ministry research.
No matter that it is only "proven" because it's approved by Rosie and the yes men a.k.a the BOD of which chairman Rosie is head.
All sorts of issues in this thread...guess the one that pops out at me is this point raised about "proven ministry research" what I call "so-called research."
It sounds so nice to say we just open our Bibles, concordances, lexicons, etc. and do word studies, but really, what good does that do your life? Besides, the writers of the Bible naturally used different vocabularies so wouldn't word studies be more appropriately done within each separate book and not across the entire N.T.? Here's something to chew on: The original New Testament, if TWI sticks to what it used to believe in the old days, was written in Aramaic, not Greek. (I don't happen to think so any more but they do). So why does TWI insist on doing word studies in Greek "to get back to the original"? (I'm messing with you now. This topic is far more complicated than this).
If research is done the way TWI tells it, "the accuracy of The Word," would be evident to everyone if they follow the keys to research in PFAL, like it's a yellow brick road. THE right interpretation would be clear as day to all and everyone would end up at the wizard's house. Doesn't turn out that way. That was the naive hope of Martin Luther long ago who said who needs the Church telling us what the right interpretation of Scriptures is? We can do that for ourselves if we just learn to read and get a printed Bible in our hands. Voila. But that didn't work out so well. Lots of fights sprung up about what scriptures meant and how to "apply them to everyday life." For instance should we have water baptisms or not? (this was before a guy named Nelson Darby (1800-1882), a Plymouth Brethren minister came up with a convenient way of dividing the Bible into dispensations (VPW called them administrations) to explain away "apparent contradicitons'. But I digress...
My experience in TWI (19701987) involved accepting the approved answers in PFAL etc. (pointed out here already). If you like those answers, then good for you. Lots of us find them to be propaganda starting with the idea of inerrancy of the written texts (there I go again, nagging about inerrancy). Another reason their teachings are propaganda is that TWI provides only one story about what the Bible is and what it means. There are others and they are not "of the devil."
If you go to the fellowship, ask them what TWI offers that is different from any other church (besides a history riddled with corruption and abuse). If they say they teach the "accuracy of the Bible" ask them how they know for sure...see what they say...ask they if they know how VPW stole the material for the PFAL class, Holy Spirit book and other materials. You can get those details here at GSC.
If they tell you they have a research department, ask for names and credentials. Then make up your own mind.
Oh, one last thing. Remember: A fundamentalist cult is not going to admit to being a fundamentalist cult.
The 'life' of the Way is in the twigs. The twig we are in now is great. Got a question about anything? Lets open concordances, lexicons, Bibles and study it.
First, thanks for conversing. As far as money and support there is a difference in it being used for evil without your knowledge, and it being used for evil with your knowledge. Part of that is accounability.
The question I have for your twig is "what about Pharisees?" what do you do about them? what does the Bible say about recognizing them? are you supposed to support them financially to empower them? are you supposed to listen to their mandates, allow them to teach you their doctrine? Those would make for some really great study questions. But probably not ones your twig would be interested in, or even if they were would connect the behavior to the leadership of TWI. Yes, blinders.
Some of the answers I have from Biblical studies are "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees", and "a little leaven leavens the whole lump". These are Biblical truths, as opposed to Way cliches, like "the 'life' of the Way is in the twigs".
The sense I get from your post is that you realize there is evil going on in TWI, but since it goes on everywhere in the world and in other organized religion, you really don't care as long as you have a nice group of folks there locally who are comfortable with each other. That's a very comfortable and complacent attitude. Many people are completely satisfied with that, and won't ever change as long as they live. These people keep TWI leaders from ever facing any accountability for their actions on earth. The return of Christ might just hold some surprises in store.
As far as money/tithes goes, as to supporting corrupt leadership - Jesus didn't say anything about not paying tithes and offerings. In fact, he approved a really broke woman paying all she had. And he himself paid his dues to the very people he said were "of their father, the devil" and "a brood of vipers."
So what becomes of ABS is really irrelevant to Naten's question. If he goes and if the horn of plenty is passed (or whatever they use nowadays) then he simply doesn't put anything in it.
So much depends on who runs the fellowship, at the twig level. Some will be run by great people who genuinely love and care for those in the twig. Some are run by autocrats who themselves want to be seen as the fount of all knowledge. Some of the best people I have met have been at twig level.
In fact, Naten, go a few times. After a month, count how many times they ask if you've taken the class yet. Or if you ask a question, do they answer it themselves, or tell you that the answer is "in the class." Ask a lot of details about this class. Specifically, whether you can ask questions to clarify your understanding during the session, during the teaching. Betcha can't.
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Twinky
If you go - don't leave your critical thinking skills at home. Be kind, be considerate. But don't be a fool.
chockfull
With us using Galen as an example on this thread, and him posting I just wanted to take the time to say that Galen himself is actually a really nice guy and a good person. I'm sure many people around
chockfull
Hahaha. The Facebook "unfriend" feature... Making being shunned by a cult as easy as pressing a button
OldSkool
Sure, give it a shot.
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excathedra
no don't bother
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Galen
I do not see any reason you should not attend one.
I attend a fellowship.
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excathedra
hi galen! good to see you
the thought of a fellowship makes me feel awful
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Galen
It is good to 'see' you as well ;)
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Naten00
ANything I should look out for.....
In all of the studies I have been in I like to challenge the one teaching. I encourage it in my own students as well. I just learn better in a dialogue and I just do it out of my own nature. Will I have to keep my mouth shut the hole time?
My wife is also afraid if we show up they might think she would be coming back when we definitely wouldn't. She just thinks it might help me understand the way better. I just feel like I ask too many questions.
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Galen
People on this forum have all had different experiences. There was a long period where leaders were poorly chosen, lacked training, and may not have been the best choice. But then again at the same time there have also been fellowships that have been the greatest.
In the fellowship I attend now, your 'challenges' would be welcomed. There is a desire to keep things 'in order'. Which simply means to be respectful during the fellowship, but once we break for coffee or a meal; then it is fair game to ask questions, or 'challenge' anyone.
We rotate among us each week for who is going to present something. Really if you challenged me, I would like it. I like doing 'word studies', so any opportunity to open the Bible and look at a context, or usages of a term is largely what we do.
It is kind of boring if nobody ever does that. :)
I think that among my fellowship your honest questions would be welcome and encouraged.
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waysider
They won't skin you alive and eat you or anything like that. Your questions will be welcomed.....as long as you agree with their answers.
Really, though, I don't foresee how you would benefit from the experience. You have to remember that they are essentially a multi-level-marketing type organization. The MLM concept is what fuels the machine so, I would think they would probably be nice to you and make you feel welcome. We used to call it love bombing. I suppose, after all these years, they have probably refined that technique to make it less obvious, though.
Also, I doubt that you'll be exposed to the underbelly of the beast at the local level. That generally doesn't happen until you make a commitment and start rising up through the ranks. I personally never saw the dark side until I entered an in-residence training program.
Ultimately, no one can tell you whether you should do this or not. Good luck, whatever choice you decide to make.
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Steve Lortz
I have to agree with waysider's assessment.
Love,
Steve
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chockfull
Unfortunately, the problem with just attending a fellowship "to be more informed on how they operate" isn't very realistic. "How they operate" is pretty well exposed on this website, and it's among the only places that the truth comes out about that. You won't see "how they operate" at a local fellowship. You won't even see an accurate portrayal of how the fellowship operates until you are there for longer than you think. Many of us took decades of our life dedicated to this group only to find out well into it "how they operate". And that is present tense, starting with the current BOD and the current President. This is not a phenomenon where past leaders weren't so good but the current ones are better. The current leadership of TWI is probably more evil even than the past leadership. Look at the fruit of their lives, and the wake of damaged people behind them. Pharisees are the biblical term whereby you can understand them the best.
At a local fellowship, when you first attend, people will be nice to you. There's a concept called "love bombing", which many people currently in TWI don't like the term, but it is accurate. People will shower you with positive emotion, reinforcement, "love", and the encouragement will build to "take the class". From there it is a consistent pattern of increasing levels of indoctrination and "commitment" - selling your soul to TWI leadership and their political structure.
What's a fellowship like? Well the service is not too far removed from your normal church service. Songs, prayer, manifestations, offering, teaching, closing song, snacks after. What's the difference? It's in someone's house. There's a spin to that about it being "just like they did it in Acts". However, in reality in Acts they didn't have a budgetary structure where 75% of your abundant sharing (minimum 10% of your net paycheck - tithe / 15% - 20% abundant sharing) goes to TWI headquarters and 25% is spent within the local area it originated in (usually in the form of paying the salary of a region coordinator).
So I would liken going to a fellowship with going fishing where you are the fish. You will experience some very tasty bait. And hopefully you'll be able to avoid the hook. If you don't you might find yourself years down the road asking "why".
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chockfull
So to expand on this - starting currently - the current President was chosen due to a sex scandal combined with developing a deep and questionable relationship with the former President's wife which was used as political maneuvering to be placed as the 2nd in command so as to capitalize on the sex scandal. None at the top levels have training on how to run corporations. Best choice? Rather transparent.
The past 2 Presidents have had severe issues with sex scandals, have a history of damaging many of their own top people's lives irreparably. The second president was chosen due to unquestioning obedience. Best choice?
The Way Corps - a group with over a 90% attrition rate over time (I guess you'd call that poorly chosen), the training consists of learning unquestioning obedience to leadership, and salesmanship of classes, and going over and over and over current publications. That's not so much lacking training but training the wrong things to be ministers. Best choices?
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Galen
What I said was not in the context of ministry BOD or presidents. I was only talking about Twig coordinators and Corpse personnel.
I do understand that there have been issues with past and present presidents; though I have never known any of them, nor have I ever had any dealings with them. Since the people that you wish to discuss would be strangers to me, I feel it would be inappropriate for me to talk about them.
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chockfull
But it's not inappropriate that of the money you put in the horn 75% of it goes to pay their salaries? Wow. This is called being an "enabler".
I'm not trying to be too harsh here, Galen. This is a very common attitude among TWI'ers. "Just take care of yourselves and your twig and God will sort out the rest". But there are blinders on. The majority are being used to enable the evil that goes on at the top. This is why when I became aware of it and realized it was not going to change I voted with my feet. My life, talents, energies, money, free time, education, expertise will NOT be used to enable the abuse that runs rampant in this cult. And I won't turn a blind eye to it any more, I will expose it. The only way evil exists is when good people do nothing to stop it.
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waysider
Well, at least there will be free refreshments, as long as you don't mind drinking your coffee out of one of these.
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Galen
When I was a teen, I was a member of my local Southern Baptist church. Their tithe went to paying the salary of our minister, a custodian, a secretary, etc. The rest went to the Southern Baptist Convention.
Then about the time I was a senior in high school it came out that most of our money had gone to South America where it had been supporting revolutionaries there. An investigation about the killings of missionaries showed that it was our tithe money that had paid for their weapons.
I know all about the ways in which tithe money can be used to churches.
Today I am a member of a men's fraternity, who has been openly hunted by various governments at the bequest of the Roman Catholic Church. In fact as a US servicemember I served in a nation where my fraternity is 'illegal' and members who are discovered are subject to imprisonment. All thanks to the tithes of Catholics.
As far as I know, EVERY church that takes tithe is likely doing evil with it. This is the nature of organized churches. They are businesses. They operate on a bottom line, they must show a profit so they can support their salaried personnel.
This is not about blinding anyone's eyes.
I found wonderful truths about God while I was first attending a twig.
I have also had run-ins with corpses. The first Corpse Grad I ever met was an arsehole, I caught him lying to believers, he admitted it to me and I made it known to the believers he was lying to. He [steve Strezpec] proclaimed to everyone that I was born of Satan's seed and threw me out of the fellowship.
In fact most corpses I have ever met were arseholes; but that does not over-ride the fact that I have also met a great many wonderful believers.
We have seen healings and miracles. Through out all of the horrible abuses that leaders have done, there has also been some very special people who I am glad that I knew.
Among all of this there have also been a few leaders who have been good men. Of course anywhere you look, when people strive to be leaders they are usually power hungry arseholes. That is life.
I served for over 20 years in the Navy, I know all about arseholes. Simply because a few exist is not reason to trash the entire US Navy. Nor is it reason to trash all of the good that is done in twigs.
The 'life' of the Way is in the twigs. The twig we are in now is great. Got a question about anything? Lets open concordances, lexicons, Bibles and study it.
Our Limb Coordinator now is a great guy. I have known him for 30+ years. He is not power hungry, nor does he have any evil intent. Rather he is pretty knowledgeable of the Bible and very loving.
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OldSkool
I know them up close and personal. Worked for the directors in fact. I have left a lot of information on here confirming what others who were before me have written for years. If the organization that sponsors the fellowships is corrupt then what good can come out of the fellowships. Fellowships lead to classes on the field which lead to classes at HQ which lead to programs etc. Fellowships only serve to groom candidates to serve (slave) for the way international's MLM schemes. But like I said. Go - see for yourself.
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waysider
I haven't been to a twig in years. I'm willing to bet, though, that any " opening the Bible and studying" that's done will be heavily tempered with Way doctrine. (ie: "What does The Blue Book say?")
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OldSkool
All roads in a way international fellowship lead to approved answers coming from approved ministry sources that contain proven ministry research.
No matter that it is only "proven" because it's approved by Rosie and the yes men a.k.a the BOD of which chairman Rosie is head.
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waysider
Our center of reference was always PFAL, et al.. Yes, we SAID it was the Bible but, it was really what PFAL told us the Bible said.
Take, for example, the scripture being dealt with currently in the "The poor you have always with you." thread. Any apparent contradiction must be resolved using criteria set forth in the PFAL class or its companion classes/materials if it's going to coincide with the general tenets of TWI..
(Not written to us, different administration, mystery not yet revealed, spirit "in" us not yet available, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah.)
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penworks
All sorts of issues in this thread...guess the one that pops out at me is this point raised about "proven ministry research" what I call "so-called research."
It sounds so nice to say we just open our Bibles, concordances, lexicons, etc. and do word studies, but really, what good does that do your life? Besides, the writers of the Bible naturally used different vocabularies so wouldn't word studies be more appropriately done within each separate book and not across the entire N.T.? Here's something to chew on: The original New Testament, if TWI sticks to what it used to believe in the old days, was written in Aramaic, not Greek. (I don't happen to think so any more but they do). So why does TWI insist on doing word studies in Greek "to get back to the original"? (I'm messing with you now. This topic is far more complicated than this).
If research is done the way TWI tells it, "the accuracy of The Word," would be evident to everyone if they follow the keys to research in PFAL, like it's a yellow brick road. THE right interpretation would be clear as day to all and everyone would end up at the wizard's house. Doesn't turn out that way. That was the naive hope of Martin Luther long ago who said who needs the Church telling us what the right interpretation of Scriptures is? We can do that for ourselves if we just learn to read and get a printed Bible in our hands. Voila. But that didn't work out so well. Lots of fights sprung up about what scriptures meant and how to "apply them to everyday life." For instance should we have water baptisms or not? (this was before a guy named Nelson Darby (1800-1882), a Plymouth Brethren minister came up with a convenient way of dividing the Bible into dispensations (VPW called them administrations) to explain away "apparent contradicitons'. But I digress...
My experience in TWI (19701987) involved accepting the approved answers in PFAL etc. (pointed out here already). If you like those answers, then good for you. Lots of us find them to be propaganda starting with the idea of inerrancy of the written texts (there I go again, nagging about inerrancy). Another reason their teachings are propaganda is that TWI provides only one story about what the Bible is and what it means. There are others and they are not "of the devil."
If you go to the fellowship, ask them what TWI offers that is different from any other church (besides a history riddled with corruption and abuse). If they say they teach the "accuracy of the Bible" ask them how they know for sure...see what they say...ask they if they know how VPW stole the material for the PFAL class, Holy Spirit book and other materials. You can get those details here at GSC.
If they tell you they have a research department, ask for names and credentials. Then make up your own mind.
Oh, one last thing. Remember: A fundamentalist cult is not going to admit to being a fundamentalist cult.
Cheers!
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chockfull
First, thanks for conversing. As far as money and support there is a difference in it being used for evil without your knowledge, and it being used for evil with your knowledge. Part of that is accounability.
The question I have for your twig is "what about Pharisees?" what do you do about them? what does the Bible say about recognizing them? are you supposed to support them financially to empower them? are you supposed to listen to their mandates, allow them to teach you their doctrine? Those would make for some really great study questions. But probably not ones your twig would be interested in, or even if they were would connect the behavior to the leadership of TWI. Yes, blinders.
Some of the answers I have from Biblical studies are "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees", and "a little leaven leavens the whole lump". These are Biblical truths, as opposed to Way cliches, like "the 'life' of the Way is in the twigs".
The sense I get from your post is that you realize there is evil going on in TWI, but since it goes on everywhere in the world and in other organized religion, you really don't care as long as you have a nice group of folks there locally who are comfortable with each other. That's a very comfortable and complacent attitude. Many people are completely satisfied with that, and won't ever change as long as they live. These people keep TWI leaders from ever facing any accountability for their actions on earth. The return of Christ might just hold some surprises in store.
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waysider
What a fellow's hip
What a joydy vine....
'cmon..Sing with me!
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Twinky
As far as money/tithes goes, as to supporting corrupt leadership - Jesus didn't say anything about not paying tithes and offerings. In fact, he approved a really broke woman paying all she had. And he himself paid his dues to the very people he said were "of their father, the devil" and "a brood of vipers."
So what becomes of ABS is really irrelevant to Naten's question. If he goes and if the horn of plenty is passed (or whatever they use nowadays) then he simply doesn't put anything in it.
So much depends on who runs the fellowship, at the twig level. Some will be run by great people who genuinely love and care for those in the twig. Some are run by autocrats who themselves want to be seen as the fount of all knowledge. Some of the best people I have met have been at twig level.
In fact, Naten, go a few times. After a month, count how many times they ask if you've taken the class yet. Or if you ask a question, do they answer it themselves, or tell you that the answer is "in the class." Ask a lot of details about this class. Specifically, whether you can ask questions to clarify your understanding during the session, during the teaching. Betcha can't.
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waysider
The main thing you need to find out is whether or not there will be refreshments.
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