Speaking in tongues, in and of itself, can't hurt you. In fact, according to scientific studies, it causes no adverse effects for the practitioner. Where the problems arise is in the application and expectations associated with it. I can personally think of many, many instances when I put my occupational safety and personal health in jeopardy, thinking that S.I.T. and the so-called "law" of believing (It was called the "magic" of believing in the original collaterals.) would cover me. It was foolish behavior. I still regret (in a very physical sense) some of the misfortunes I encountered as a result. Did I do it out of love? Yeah, I would say I did. I was trying to put food on the table for my family and trying to keep a roof over our heads. If that doesn't fit the bill, what does? I guess I should consider myself lucky in comparison to some others who were permanently, severely scarred or lost their lives trying to prove it all worked.
THIS thread, I believe, is relevant to any discussion regarding speaking in tongues, believing, or the revelation manifestations in general..
Well, my intent in the original post was to point out that whatever speaking in tongues really is, or does, or does not - it is not the all in one tool the way international makes it out to be. And I cited an example that illustrates their failure and deceit in an illustration given by clergy at a corps teaching.
Otherwise, the thread can go which ever direction you guys wanna take it. Off topic or on. That is the life of a thread after all. :unsure:
Well, my intent in the original post was to point out that whatever speaking in tongues really is, or does, or does not - it is not the all in one tool the way international makes it out to be. And I cited an example that illustrates their failure and deceit in an illustration given by clergy at a corps teaching.
Otherwise, the thread can go which ever direction you guys wanna take it. Off topic or on. That is the life of a thread after all. :unsure:
I apologize for running it off the track. The intent of my last post was to illustrate that I too tried to use it like an all-in-one tool. Why? Because that's how it was promoted in The Way. Did I say promoted? I meant to say lauded......Get a clear picture, S.I.T. and "believe" and anything can come to pass.....Well, life doesn't work that way.....Too many of us discovered that little truth too late....It reminds me of how, when I was a little whippersnapper, I wanted to stay up late to steal a glimpse of Santa Claus. My parents told me he wouldn't come to our house unless I was asleep.....Same thing, ya know?.....S.I.T. won't work unless you get a clear picture, make sure your request is available, get your needs and wants parallel, walk in love, get your administrations correct, properly translate the word "IF",....and the list goes on ad infinitum.
I still do it when I need to clear my head or take the focus off some ache or pain....like a kind of meditation... The difference, now, is that I don't see it as having any spiritual significance and I don't expect any benefit beyond what I just stated..
Speaking in tongues, in and of itself, can't hurt you. In fact, according to scientific studies, it causes no adverse effects for the practitioner. Where the problems arise is in the application and expectations associated with it. I can personally think of many, many instances when I put my occupational safety and personal health in jeopardy, thinking that S.I.T. and the so-called "law" of believing (It was called the "magic" of believing in the original collaterals.) would cover me. It was foolish behavior. I still regret (in a very physical sense) some of the misfortunes I encountered as a result. Did I do it out of love? Yeah, I would say I did. I was trying to put food on the table for my family and trying to keep a roof over our heads. If that doesn't fit the bill, what does? I guess I should consider myself lucky in comparison to some others who were permanently, severely scarred or lost their lives trying to prove it all worked.
THIS thread, I believe, is relevant to any discussion regarding speaking in tongues, believing, or the revelation manifestations in general..
I have a friend who stepped out on their believing and SIT and dumped their daily insulin shots. Almost died, but remains blind and debilitated. Just did as he was instructed...'prove me now sayeth the Lord of Hosts..."
I have a friend who stepped out on their believing and SIT and dumped their daily insulin shots. Almost died, but remains blind and debilitated. Just did as he was instructed...'prove me now sayeth the Lord of Hosts..."
.....and that's because of the lie of believing...........
I have a friend who stepped out on their believing and SIT and dumped their daily insulin shots. Almost died, but remains blind and debilitated. Just did as he was instructed...'prove me now sayeth the Lord of Hosts..."
That stupid ministry and it's devilish teachings have left people decimated in it's wake. There will be a reckoning one day, and I can't wait.
My wife had a wow brother who was saying he was healed of diabetes, was going to trash his insulin. The others in the family cautioned him. The limb coordinator talked some sense into him. This was in 1986.
Glossolalia sounds like trinity; a non biblical term that's supposed to be relevant, but isn't.
My wife had a wow brother who was saying he was healed of diabetes, was going to trash his insulin. The others in the family cautioned him. The limb coordinator talked some sense into him. This was in 1986.
Glossolalia sounds like trinity; a non biblical term that's supposed to be relevant, but isn't.
Not relevant to what? It is an valid term. I have heard that there have been cases where one person speaks in tongues and another in the room understands it. However, in my experience it is still rumor. in all my years in TWI and in Charismatic churches, I've never personally seen this occur.
And yes, TWI leaders will have to answer for all the injuries and premature deaths [including abortions]they caused by their STUPID encouragements!
My wife had a wow brother who was saying he was healed of diabetes, was going to trash his insulin. The others in the family cautioned him. The limb coordinator talked some sense into him.
There are good people in TWI, and bad people who make an occasional good decision from time to time. In no way does this excuse this corrupt organization from all the injury that has been inflicted by it's representatives, ranging from Wierwille to Rivenbark, and the sea of minions that have nipped their ankles over the years.
Glossolalia sounds like trinity; a non biblical term that's supposed to be relevant, but isn't.
Etymology
"Glossolalia" is constructed from the Greek word γλωσσολαλία, itself a compound of the words γλῶσσα (glossa), meaning "tongue" or "language"[2] and λαλέω (laleō), "To speak, talk, chat, prattle, or to make a sound".[3] The Greek expression (in various forms) appears in the New Testament in the books of Acts and 1 Corinthians.
Glossolalia sounds like trinity; a non biblical term that's supposed to be relevant, but isn't.
Etymology
"Glossolalia" is constructed from the Greek word γλωσσολαλία, itself a compound of the words γλῶσσα (glossa), meaning "tongue" or "language"[2] and λαλέω (laleō), "To speak, talk, chat, prattle, or to make a sound".[3] The Greek expression (in various forms) appears in the New Testament in the books of Acts and 1 Corinthians.
I have a friend who stepped out on their believing and SIT and dumped their daily insulin shots. Almost died, but remains blind and debilitated. Just did as he was instructed...'prove me now sayeth the Lord of Hosts..."
If twi didn't emphasize avoiding the Gospels over the Epistles,
every member would know in their sleep Jesus' temptation to jump off a roof so that he could
"prove God", and how Jesus Christ disapproved of such stunts.
For all their supposed knowledge of Scripture, twi is irrelevant and outclassed by MANY Christian
I am really ok with what ever direction the thread takes. I am usually one of the main culprits to drag a thread off. and lol@off topic police. Glad I missed them.
I don't think I would use the word "prove" in relation to this study. It doesn't "prove" anything. What it does is "demonstrate". It "demonstrates" that electrical activity is significantly reduced, particularly in the frontal lobe, which is associated with self control and the ability to reason (think critically). At the same time, there is an increase in activity in the parietal area, which uses sensory input to create a sense of self, in relation to the outside world. This is the opposite of what happens in meditation.
If this is, indeed, the workings of The Holy Spirit, how does one explain that non-Christians are capable of replicating this practice?
My personal opinion is that tongues is real, but misunderstood and thus
misused in twi. twi made it a part of how to operate their magical
believing, and made all its practitioners into OCCULTISTS, hoarding
supposed hidden wisdom to perform magic to compel either God or reality
to do what we want. If SIT has a spiritual reality, it's very different
This is my problem as well and I am of the same opinion. I consider myself a Christian in that I believe the Bible to be the source of faith for the Christian follower, though currently I am not a "practicing" Christian (taking some time off from Church.) So, to me, there are so many verses on SIT and I still SIT myself.
It was so emphatically taught in TWI that it was just the do all manifestation that I found their teachings highly suspect. Especially, when all the formulas and wordy definitions for the revelation and impartation manifestations produce no results. They defy their own teachings that each manifestation has it's own purposes and boundaries, yet they SIT for the sick and take them to the hospital for emergency surgery in the next minute (and by gosh they should have just went to the hospital in the first place.)
If what they teach on the Holy Spirit and the manifestations were true then they would work, but the big fat claims regarding this topic are lies. After having the advanced class, being way disciple 2X, being way corps, being in top leadership positions, and putting their teachings to the test; I was let down into deep failure. Let the God be true, but they are liars.
Other religious groups been observed to practice some form of theopneustic glossolalia. It is perhaps most commonly in Paganism, Shamanism, and other mediumistic religious practices.[57] In Japan, the God Light Association used to practice glossolalia to cause adherents to recall past lives.[58]
Glossolalia has even been postulated as an explanation for the Voynich manuscript.[59]
Certain Gnostic magical texts from the Roman period have written on them unintelligible syllables such as "t t t t n n n n d d d d d..." etc. It is conjectured that these may be transliterations of the sorts of sounds made during glossolalia. The Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians also features a hymn of (mostly) unintelligible syllables which is thought to be an early example of Christian glossolalia.[citation needed]
In the 19th century, Spiritism was developed by the work of Allan Kardec, and the phenomenon was seen as one of the self-evident manifestations of spirits. Spiritists argued that some cases were actually cases of xenoglossia.
Glossolalia has also been observed in the Voodoo religion of Haiti,[60] as well as in the Hindu Gurus and Fakirs of India.[61][62]"
This is my problem as well and I am of the same opinion. I consider myself a Christian in that I believe the Bible to be the source of faith for the Christian follower, though currently I am not a "practicing" Christian (taking some time off from Church.) So, to me, there are so many verses on SIT and I still SIT myself.
It was so emphatically taught in TWI that it was just the do all manifestation that I found their teachings highly suspect. Especially, when all the formulas and wordy definitions for the revelation and impartation manifestations produce no results. They defy their own teachings that each manifestation has it's own purposes and boundaries, yet they SIT for the sick and take them to the hospital for emergency surgery in the next minute (and by gosh they should have just went to the hospital in the first place.)
If what they teach on the Holy Spirit and the manifestations were true then they would work, but the big fat claims regarding this topic are lies. After having the advanced class, being way disciple 2X, being way corps, being in top leadership positions, and putting their teachings to the test; I was let down into deep failure. Let the God be true, but they are liars.
Bro this is old. But what is a practicing Christian beyond someone trying to live a life with principal and a personal relationship with our Savior?
You are more of a practicing Christian than those false prophets ever will be. And you are an inspiration around here. To me that speaks so loudly of Christian fruit that to me you should never doubt again anything in that realm despite your consciousness trying to condemn you for sin that God has long forgiven you for.
Our faith post TWI in my opinion is well grounded and allows God to bring blessings in life we never would have experienced in the Way.
Although for those choosing a different healing path God supports you. He is not fickle or unseen regarding justice
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waysider
Speaking in tongues, in and of itself, can't hurt you. In fact, according to scientific studies, it causes no adverse effects for the practitioner. Where the problems arise is in the application and expectations associated with it. I can personally think of many, many instances when I put my occupational safety and personal health in jeopardy, thinking that S.I.T. and the so-called "law" of believing (It was called the "magic" of believing in the original collaterals.) would cover me. It was foolish behavior. I still regret (in a very physical sense) some of the misfortunes I encountered as a result. Did I do it out of love? Yeah, I would say I did. I was trying to put food on the table for my family and trying to keep a roof over our heads. If that doesn't fit the bill, what does? I guess I should consider myself lucky in comparison to some others who were permanently, severely scarred or lost their lives trying to prove it all worked.
THIS thread, I believe, is relevant to any discussion regarding speaking in tongues, believing, or the revelation manifestations in general..
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OldSkool
Well, my intent in the original post was to point out that whatever speaking in tongues really is, or does, or does not - it is not the all in one tool the way international makes it out to be. And I cited an example that illustrates their failure and deceit in an illustration given by clergy at a corps teaching.
Otherwise, the thread can go which ever direction you guys wanna take it. Off topic or on. That is the life of a thread after all. :unsure:
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waysider
I apologize for running it off the track. The intent of my last post was to illustrate that I too tried to use it like an all-in-one tool. Why? Because that's how it was promoted in The Way. Did I say promoted? I meant to say lauded......Get a clear picture, S.I.T. and "believe" and anything can come to pass.....Well, life doesn't work that way.....Too many of us discovered that little truth too late....It reminds me of how, when I was a little whippersnapper, I wanted to stay up late to steal a glimpse of Santa Claus. My parents told me he wouldn't come to our house unless I was asleep.....Same thing, ya know?.....S.I.T. won't work unless you get a clear picture, make sure your request is available, get your needs and wants parallel, walk in love, get your administrations correct, properly translate the word "IF",....and the list goes on ad infinitum.
I still do it when I need to clear my head or take the focus off some ache or pain....like a kind of meditation... The difference, now, is that I don't see it as having any spiritual significance and I don't expect any benefit beyond what I just stated..
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OldSkool
^^ No need to apologize, threads meander their way where they need to.
Like the post. It really illustrates things well.
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Rejoice
I have a friend who stepped out on their believing and SIT and dumped their daily insulin shots. Almost died, but remains blind and debilitated. Just did as he was instructed...'prove me now sayeth the Lord of Hosts..."
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krys
.....and that's because of the lie of believing...........
I am so sorry your friend was scammed like that!
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OldSkool
That stupid ministry and it's devilish teachings have left people decimated in it's wake. There will be a reckoning one day, and I can't wait.
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johniam
My wife had a wow brother who was saying he was healed of diabetes, was going to trash his insulin. The others in the family cautioned him. The limb coordinator talked some sense into him. This was in 1986.
Glossolalia sounds like trinity; a non biblical term that's supposed to be relevant, but isn't.
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Rejoice
Not relevant to what? It is an valid term. I have heard that there have been cases where one person speaks in tongues and another in the room understands it. However, in my experience it is still rumor. in all my years in TWI and in Charismatic churches, I've never personally seen this occur.
And yes, TWI leaders will have to answer for all the injuries and premature deaths [including abortions]they caused by their STUPID encouragements!
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OldSkool
There are good people in TWI, and bad people who make an occasional good decision from time to time. In no way does this excuse this corrupt organization from all the injury that has been inflicted by it's representatives, ranging from Wierwille to Rivenbark, and the sea of minions that have nipped their ankles over the years.
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waysider
Etymology
"Glossolalia" is constructed from the Greek word γλωσσολαλία, itself a compound of the words γλῶσσα (glossa), meaning "tongue" or "language"[2] and λαλέω (laleō), "To speak, talk, chat, prattle, or to make a sound".[3] The Greek expression (in various forms) appears in the New Testament in the books of Acts and 1 Corinthians.
SOURCE
So, you see, some might argue that the term "glossolalia" is actually more "Biblical" than the phrase "speaking in tongues".
(Both are English translations of the same Greek word so neither is truly Biblical.)
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WordWolf
In fairness,
it does indeed SOUND LIKE an extra-Biblical term.
It's not, but it DOES sound like it is.
And if the question wasn't raised, we couldn't point out how it does appear in Scripture.
---------------
Other subjects on that include whether someone even understands
what they're objecting to OR approving of.
My favorite criticism of SIT came while IN twi. Raf and I heard an audiotape
some street preacher made. At one point, she tried to criticize SIT but didn't
do so competently. (Anything can be criticized- correctly.)
She pointed out that people claimed that there were Biblical accounts of
"speaking in tongues." Her response?
"They weren't speaking in tongues- they were speaking in LANGUAGES!"
That just got a laugh from both of us.
It's like saying someone misunderstood when giving a drink order because
they were offered a BEVERAGE instead of a drink.
The words are used synonymously.
In Spanish, the word "lengua" means the physical tongue as well as the
word "tongue" as a language, and the word "idioma" means "language"
specifically, so the pattern is the same as in English.
My personal opinion is that tongues is real, but misunderstood and thus
misused in twi. twi made it a part of how to operate their magical
believing, and made all its practitioners into OCCULTISTS, hoarding
supposed hidden wisdom to perform magic to compel either God or reality
to do what we want. If SIT has a spiritual reality, it's very different
from that.
A separate question is whether all things that are claimed to be
"speaking in tongues" are anything alike. Is the one in the Bible in
any way similar to how it's practiced in twi, or in a spiritualist meeting,
or by some Voodoo houngan, or anyone else? If some are different than
others, calling them the same thing will only confuse issues.
It's like using the word "vampire" for goth kids with fangs, AND lifestylers
with velvet and coffins, AND blood fetishists, AND cannibals, AND
fictional peopls sparkling in sunlight, AND lawyers AND IRS agents.
They really shouldn't be confused for each other.
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WordWolf
If twi didn't emphasize avoiding the Gospels over the Epistles,
every member would know in their sleep Jesus' temptation to jump off a roof so that he could
"prove God", and how Jesus Christ disapproved of such stunts.
For all their supposed knowledge of Scripture, twi is irrelevant and outclassed by MANY Christian
organizations extant.
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excathedra
ohmygod!!!!!! old s kool, it's a good thing you weren't here way back when the off topic police were around lol
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OldSkool
I am really ok with what ever direction the thread takes. I am usually one of the main culprits to drag a thread off. and lol@off topic police. Glad I missed them.
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excathedra
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waysider
I don't think I would use the word "prove" in relation to this study. It doesn't "prove" anything. What it does is "demonstrate". It "demonstrates" that electrical activity is significantly reduced, particularly in the frontal lobe, which is associated with self control and the ability to reason (think critically). At the same time, there is an increase in activity in the parietal area, which uses sensory input to create a sense of self, in relation to the outside world. This is the opposite of what happens in meditation.
If this is, indeed, the workings of The Holy Spirit, how does one explain that non-Christians are capable of replicating this practice?
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OldSkool
This is my problem as well and I am of the same opinion. I consider myself a Christian in that I believe the Bible to be the source of faith for the Christian follower, though currently I am not a "practicing" Christian (taking some time off from Church.) So, to me, there are so many verses on SIT and I still SIT myself.
It was so emphatically taught in TWI that it was just the do all manifestation that I found their teachings highly suspect. Especially, when all the formulas and wordy definitions for the revelation and impartation manifestations produce no results. They defy their own teachings that each manifestation has it's own purposes and boundaries, yet they SIT for the sick and take them to the hospital for emergency surgery in the next minute (and by gosh they should have just went to the hospital in the first place.)
If what they teach on the Holy Spirit and the manifestations were true then they would work, but the big fat claims regarding this topic are lies. After having the advanced class, being way disciple 2X, being way corps, being in top leadership positions, and putting their teachings to the test; I was let down into deep failure. Let the God be true, but they are liars.
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excathedra
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, I didn't know this! Thanks for the information!
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Grace Valerie Claire
OS, bingo! I can't wait either!
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chockfull
Bro this is old. But what is a practicing Christian beyond someone trying to live a life with principal and a personal relationship with our Savior?
You are more of a practicing Christian than those false prophets ever will be. And you are an inspiration around here. To me that speaks so loudly of Christian fruit that to me you should never doubt again anything in that realm despite your consciousness trying to condemn you for sin that God has long forgiven you for.
Our faith post TWI in my opinion is well grounded and allows God to bring blessings in life we never would have experienced in the Way.
Although for those choosing a different healing path God supports you. He is not fickle or unseen regarding justice
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