“Having a framework in which to grow in Christ and prove the Advanced Class walk in my life has been an electrifying experience. I am so thankful to have had these six months to offer God’s deliverance to others and, consequently, to see God’s deliverance in my own life. My trust in my heavenly Father has deepened, and my prayer life is so much sweeter. I will draw upon these experiences for the rest of my life!”
This is a real gem as well. I went twice trying to prove the advanced class walk. Spent a lot of time and energy putting the advanced class teachings to the test only to find them void of power and empty on what was promised.
Sad to say, not a Christian on this earth needs any of the way international's "frameworks" to snare themselves on.
Ya, and logic, pffft. The way uses circular logic very expertly. Get too far from that and logic you will not find.
TWI's outreach programs - Way D, WOW, other extrapolations over years - all have some things in common. They remove a person's normal support structures (friends, family, community) and put in their place artificial support structures made up by TWI. The problem with this is the same problem with all TWI's artificial support structures - they really don't care about you. People serving in an artificial support structure don't really care for people the same way they would for those in their real support structures. This opens the door for a lot of calamity.
Can good things happen in this type of arrangement? Can a person who voluntarily removes all support structures and "relies upon God" grow and progress? Sure. God honors what's in a person's heart.
Could it be a good thing for people to get removed from loser friends and family? Sure it could.
TWI supporters and party line supporters will say "nothing is wrong with encouraging people to trust God more".
What's wrong is removing the support systems. And replacing them with non-caring substitutes. False shepherds. Middle managers with aspirations. Tons of rules. Then turning their back when people don't succeed and blame them.
Strip away all the religious trappings and what you will discover is that W.O.W. and W.D. are nothing more than an unpaid sales force.
You got that right! And we were used up and put away wet when I was out Way D (both times.)
Curious how quick TWI is to skirt paying workers to advance their schemes. They prefer people to not be on the payrolls. In fact, I personally heard Rosalie lament during a leadership meeting that she hated all the employer responsibilities that have been regulated over the years.
Reason? She prefers for people to be able to give instead of work for money.
I'm glad they have been sued repeatedly (for other matters) and scared into compliance. I get a certain satisfaction of the all high and mighty board of directors having to grudgingly submit to real authorities.
And to think that we were always told that our assignments were given to first benefit the person. What a crock.
Yep - total BS! People go where it benefits TWI and that is the end of story. How many people have not wanted assignments and were told they needed to go first to see the benefit to themselves. And if you refuse there are always actions taken against you in retribution.
I wonder, how is it a group of incompetents hidden away in a board room can know better what's good for a person than what the person knows?
Oh ya. God works in them.
Benevolent dictators. They know what's best for you but don't abide by the same rules themselves. <_<
Ya know...I think we've debunked this eye thing several times here on GSC.
But, suppose for a moment it were true...Where was the revelation that was supposed to warn him about safe levels?....Why couldn't he use the "law" of believing to turn the situation around?...The guy was a big phoney....He rode the gravy train and we bought him the ticket.
I don't think he ever said it quite that way. However, it is more than implied in present day TWI. We were discouraged from working new topics and sticking with what Wierwille had put together. And we were told flat out on several occasions how much he had gone through in his life's work and we didn't have to do the same things, but rather enjoy the storehouse of truth TWI had accumulated. To paraphrase.
Heck, even our study hall time in-rez was limited to working the present truth. We weren't allowed to actually research topics on our own, though those that did were usually scratching their head at TWI's teachings and practices.
I don't think he ever said it quite that way. However, it is more than implied in present day TWI. We were discouraged from working new topics and sticking with what Wierwille had put together. And we were told flat out on several occasions how much he had gone through in his life's work and we didn't have to do the same things, but rather enjoy the storehouse of truth TWI had accumulated. To paraphrase.
What a prison camp in rez corps training has turned into.
Heck, even our study hall time in-rez was limited to working the present truth. We weren't allowed to actually research topics on our own, though those that did were usually scratching their head at TWI's teachings and practices.
One of the best memories I have of in rez is ignoring the study hall directives and doing some word studies on my own. Actually reflecting back most of my valuable experiences I can recollect involve some form of ignoring a TWI directive and following the still small voice of God.
Now I can see how that makes perfect sense. TWI directives oppose God working in an individual.
One of the best memories I have of in rez is ignoring the study hall directives and doing some word studies on my own.
I did this often. In fact, in-rez was where I started to wake up. Mainly due to actually working the Bible and taking advantage of the library that was at Gunnison at the time. It had a lot of books that were off limits for the in-rex corps but approved for staffers. I read them anyway - theologies, histories and such. Not to mention actually working through what I had come to believe and noting much of it did not line up with the Bible.
I spent a lot of time doing my own research at one location I lived in for several years - it was actually encouraged by our limb leader. I remember one of my friends who decided to go into the WC (and still is in) asked me a few years after she graduated (we ran into each other at HQ) if the area we were from was still so "intellectual.". It was the first time I had heard the word intellectual used in a negative capacity. It really confused me. If we were supposed to be part of a research ministry, then why would personal study and research be discouraged? Why would being a biblical scholar be looked down on?
This was towards the start of the boringest STS ever at HQ... And being encouraged to "study" and "teach" from books like Born Again to Serve and Life Lines.
One of the best memories I have of in rez is ignoring the study hall directives and doing some word studies on my own. Actually reflecting back most of my valuable experiences I can recollect involve some form of ignoring a TWI directive and following the still small voice of God.
Now I can see how that makes perfect sense. TWI directives oppose God working in an individual.
Towards my latter time in TWI I noticed that areas and fellowships that were doing well [not losing people as fast] seemed to be the ones who ignored the directives from HQ. Those fellowships that stayed on task [it was obvious because what they did had no correlation to what their fellowships needed] were dull, dying, lifeless and losing members faster. Kind of like HQ. I'd say if you did the opposite of what they told you to do you'd have a better shot at being in the will of God.
This was towards the start of the boringest STS ever at HQ... And being encouraged to "study" and "teach" from books like Born Again to Serve and Life Lines.
It just goes to show that TWI has never been what they say it was, or is for that matter. It's a sham and one that leads to dependence on an abusive cult. Wierwille has been deified and books like Life Lines and Born Again to Serve are about as elementary as The Peanuts.
The STS starting putting me to sleep as soon as Craig wasn't around to keep me awake with his yelling fits that were fit in between his corny jokes. As bad as it was under Craig, it got WAY worse under Rosie. I would rather feed one of my arms to wild dogs than sit through a service again.
I was told by a corps grad who also left in it that we should NOT be doing original research,
and instead should be rereading the twi materials vpw supposedly wrote.
Apparently, the corps were taught this "research means to search again" nonsense for many
years before the rest of us heard it.
At the 1978 summer advanced class, three 8th corps were publically excoriated for doing research work that was contrary to twi's ensconced doctrine. From that point, research began to actively take the form of "search again wierwille's work."
In my opinion, many corps and advanced class grads were coming of age and NO LONGER kowtowing the "just shut up and obey club"......the wierwille adulation was being challenged! Yeah, the exodus happened in masse about 10 years later......but the rumblings in the village were simply growing louder and louder each year. Hence, the yelling. Wierwille/Martindale/Geer had to shout down their opposition to stay in power.
By 1978......they couldn't put the "toothpaste back into the tube."
Then, they just devised different methods of control. <_<
I concur, skyrider. By the mid 1970s, the FellowLaborers were already being directed to confine their studies and teachings to the core materials of PLAF (The Wonder Class). Anything that might cast suspicion on the integrity of "the class" was relegated to a nearly taboo level. Wierwille already knew his "teachings" didn't hold water and they couldn't withstand close scrutiny in the light of day.
edit: In fact, in about 1976, we spent a whole month or so presenting teachings, in our nightly twigs, using nothing but "The Blue Book"...... with no extraneous supplementation permitted.
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OldSkool
This is a real gem as well. I went twice trying to prove the advanced class walk. Spent a lot of time and energy putting the advanced class teachings to the test only to find them void of power and empty on what was promised.
Sad to say, not a Christian on this earth needs any of the way international's "frameworks" to snare themselves on.
Ya, and logic, pffft. The way uses circular logic very expertly. Get too far from that and logic you will not find.
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chockfull
TWI's outreach programs - Way D, WOW, other extrapolations over years - all have some things in common. They remove a person's normal support structures (friends, family, community) and put in their place artificial support structures made up by TWI. The problem with this is the same problem with all TWI's artificial support structures - they really don't care about you. People serving in an artificial support structure don't really care for people the same way they would for those in their real support structures. This opens the door for a lot of calamity.
Can good things happen in this type of arrangement? Can a person who voluntarily removes all support structures and "relies upon God" grow and progress? Sure. God honors what's in a person's heart.
Could it be a good thing for people to get removed from loser friends and family? Sure it could.
TWI supporters and party line supporters will say "nothing is wrong with encouraging people to trust God more".
What's wrong is removing the support systems. And replacing them with non-caring substitutes. False shepherds. Middle managers with aspirations. Tons of rules. Then turning their back when people don't succeed and blame them.
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waysider
Strip away all the religious trappings and what you will discover is that W.O.W. and W.D. are nothing more than an unpaid sales force.
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OldSkool
You got that right! And we were used up and put away wet when I was out Way D (both times.)
Curious how quick TWI is to skirt paying workers to advance their schemes. They prefer people to not be on the payrolls. In fact, I personally heard Rosalie lament during a leadership meeting that she hated all the employer responsibilities that have been regulated over the years.
Reason? She prefers for people to be able to give instead of work for money.
I'm glad they have been sued repeatedly (for other matters) and scared into compliance. I get a certain satisfaction of the all high and mighty board of directors having to grudgingly submit to real authorities.
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outandabout
And to think that we were always told that our assignments were given to first benefit the person. What a crock.
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OldSkool
Yep - total BS! People go where it benefits TWI and that is the end of story. How many people have not wanted assignments and were told they needed to go first to see the benefit to themselves. And if you refuse there are always actions taken against you in retribution.
I wonder, how is it a group of incompetents hidden away in a board room can know better what's good for a person than what the person knows?
Oh ya. God works in them.
Benevolent dictators. They know what's best for you but don't abide by the same rules themselves. <_<
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skyrider
Hence, the term "false teachers" is appropriate.
Show me ONE THING......where wierwille gave of himself without the payback factor looming close behind?
Did wierwille spend a number of years on the mission field for his denomination?
Did wierwille open an orphanage like George Mueller and pray for daily sustenance for the children?
Did wierwille go WOW....to a strange city, with complete strangers, no job, and believe God to provide?
Did wierwille take yearly corps assignments MOVING EVERY THREE YEARS FOR TWENTY YEARS to serve the Lord?
Did wierwille abandon HIS family, his home town, his roots so as NOT to be tempted by "the devil?"
See, when you set twi leadership TO THE SAME STANDARD THAT THEY DEMANDED OF US........it was a sham!
Twi is a con where hypocrites rule over many good-hearted believers.
It's so OBVIOUS......now. <_<
.
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OldSkool
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waysider
"I gave my eye for you kids."
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waysider
Ya know...I think we've debunked this eye thing several times here on GSC.
But, suppose for a moment it were true...Where was the revelation that was supposed to warn him about safe levels?....Why couldn't he use the "law" of believing to turn the situation around?...The guy was a big phoney....He rode the gravy train and we bought him the ticket.
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skyrider
Yeah....and he "researched" seances and black magic and orgies SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO.
What a guy.
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Naten00
Did he really say...
" I researched the bible so you don't have too"
If that is so... It isn't funny anymore it's just sad anyone would go along with it...
It is like handing your keys to a stranger and he says I will take care of your family and house so you don't have too.... With an evil grin.
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OldSkool
I don't think he ever said it quite that way. However, it is more than implied in present day TWI. We were discouraged from working new topics and sticking with what Wierwille had put together. And we were told flat out on several occasions how much he had gone through in his life's work and we didn't have to do the same things, but rather enjoy the storehouse of truth TWI had accumulated. To paraphrase.
Heck, even our study hall time in-rez was limited to working the present truth. We weren't allowed to actually research topics on our own, though those that did were usually scratching their head at TWI's teachings and practices.
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WordWolf
It's not that recent an idea, either.
After leaving twi in the 88-89 mass exodus,
I was told by a corps grad who also left in it that we should NOT be doing original research,
and instead should be rereading the twi materials vpw supposedly wrote.
Apparently, the corps were taught this "research means to search again" nonsense for many
years before the rest of us heard it.
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chockfull
What a prison camp in rez corps training has turned into.
One of the best memories I have of in rez is ignoring the study hall directives and doing some word studies on my own. Actually reflecting back most of my valuable experiences I can recollect involve some form of ignoring a TWI directive and following the still small voice of God.
Now I can see how that makes perfect sense. TWI directives oppose God working in an individual.
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OldSkool
I did this often. In fact, in-rez was where I started to wake up. Mainly due to actually working the Bible and taking advantage of the library that was at Gunnison at the time. It had a lot of books that were off limits for the in-rex corps but approved for staffers. I read them anyway - theologies, histories and such. Not to mention actually working through what I had come to believe and noting much of it did not line up with the Bible.
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JavaJane
I spent a lot of time doing my own research at one location I lived in for several years - it was actually encouraged by our limb leader. I remember one of my friends who decided to go into the WC (and still is in) asked me a few years after she graduated (we ran into each other at HQ) if the area we were from was still so "intellectual.". It was the first time I had heard the word intellectual used in a negative capacity. It really confused me. If we were supposed to be part of a research ministry, then why would personal study and research be discouraged? Why would being a biblical scholar be looked down on?
This was towards the start of the boringest STS ever at HQ... And being encouraged to "study" and "teach" from books like Born Again to Serve and Life Lines.
A few years later and I was out.
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PatAnswer
Towards my latter time in TWI I noticed that areas and fellowships that were doing well [not losing people as fast] seemed to be the ones who ignored the directives from HQ. Those fellowships that stayed on task [it was obvious because what they did had no correlation to what their fellowships needed] were dull, dying, lifeless and losing members faster. Kind of like HQ. I'd say if you did the opposite of what they told you to do you'd have a better shot at being in the will of God.
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OldSkool
It just goes to show that TWI has never been what they say it was, or is for that matter. It's a sham and one that leads to dependence on an abusive cult. Wierwille has been deified and books like Life Lines and Born Again to Serve are about as elementary as The Peanuts.
The STS starting putting me to sleep as soon as Craig wasn't around to keep me awake with his yelling fits that were fit in between his corny jokes. As bad as it was under Craig, it got WAY worse under Rosie. I would rather feed one of my arms to wild dogs than sit through a service again.
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skyrider
At the 1978 summer advanced class, three 8th corps were publically excoriated for doing research work that was contrary to twi's ensconced doctrine. From that point, research began to actively take the form of "search again wierwille's work."
In my opinion, many corps and advanced class grads were coming of age and NO LONGER kowtowing the "just shut up and obey club"......the wierwille adulation was being challenged! Yeah, the exodus happened in masse about 10 years later......but the rumblings in the village were simply growing louder and louder each year. Hence, the yelling. Wierwille/Martindale/Geer had to shout down their opposition to stay in power.
By 1978......they couldn't put the "toothpaste back into the tube."
Then, they just devised different methods of control. <_<
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waysider
I concur, skyrider. By the mid 1970s, the FellowLaborers were already being directed to confine their studies and teachings to the core materials of PLAF (The Wonder Class). Anything that might cast suspicion on the integrity of "the class" was relegated to a nearly taboo level. Wierwille already knew his "teachings" didn't hold water and they couldn't withstand close scrutiny in the light of day.
edit: In fact, in about 1976, we spent a whole month or so presenting teachings, in our nightly twigs, using nothing but "The Blue Book"...... with no extraneous supplementation permitted.
(Just what we needed at 11PM
)
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