Just because you're paranoid

[JavaJane]

I read The Cult That Snapped last week, and since then I have been remembering things I forgot about (repressed) years ago. The chapter where he lived at the Limb home really hit me. Now, don't be mistaken, the Limb coordinators I lived with I genuinely believe were good people. And still are good people. But living at the Limb was hell for me, in much the same way it was hell for the author of The Cult that Snapped. SO many similarities. Cleaning and cleaning and cleaning, never getting it quite right. Not ever really feeling like I was home enough to relax. Two instances came to mind upon reading it:

One day I came home sick from work to find the region coordinator meeting with the Limb coordinators. I was confronted at the door by the limb coordinator's wife demanding to know why I was home in the middle of the day. I told her I was ill, and I just was going to go into my room and sleep. She told me I could not be in my room because they were meeting in the living room and I would disturb them. I couldn't hear anything from my room, but I was obviously not welcome to be there. She was kind enough to put me in the room she shared with her husband so I could rest, but the whole situation was just weird.

Also, I never could clean anything to anyone's satisfaction, and I knew it. I could feel the tension building from the LC's wife, and asked her one day if she was upset with me, because it felt like she was upset with me. She told me she wasn't, and to stop thinking evil (or something to that effect). I said, OK.... A week passed and she still seemed ....ed at me, but I kept trying to not think evil. And then she came up to me and said, "remember that day you asked me if I was upset with you? I was, because you didn't do ______" (I don't remember what it was I had effed up, something trivial) "And I didn't want to feed into you thinking you could tell how I was feeling and being paranoid, so I told you I wasn't mad. But I was."

OKAAAAY......

So, you were mad at me and lied, because you didn't want me to think I was right about how you felt, but I was right, but I'm still wrong for thinking "evil" of you when you were doing exactly what I thought you were doing?

(Incidently, I was put on a lighter version of Spiritual Probation (no social activities or tv or secular music and meetings with the limb coordinators for some period of time) because I lied to cover my @$$ and avoid another face melting because I used the wrong something or other on a poster and smudged it. I was told I was close to spiritual death, whatever the f*** that means because of that incident.)

I had another situation like that happen to me at Headquarters. I could tell my Department Coordinator was not approving of me. I asked him about it, and he told me it was fine. Then said he needed to meet with me after lunch (ominous music plays in my head.) I tell my fiancee (now husband of almost 8 years) what is happening, and he goes and talks to my boss when he walks me to our meeting place. The Department Coordinator tells him, "Everything's fine, bro. No problem," and pats him on the back. My fiancee leaves, and I am taken for confrontation (face melting) from my department coordinator AND cabinet coordinator because I had a pattern of thinking evil of my boss and gossiping.

WTF? I guess it was ok for others to lie, but not me. It was also not ok for me to read body language when it came to a leader.

And that I was not supposed to be paranoid.

But they were after me.

And I wasn't supposed to know they were.

Edited January 11, 2013 by JavaJane

[Ham]

You were mad at me, and (therefore) lied.. maybe that says everything..

[Ham]

They- were- never- my- friends.. not paranoid. Maybe that is reality..

their loss, not mine.

[waysider]

Never doing anything right:

Reminds me of FellowLaborers. Every Wednesday night was FellowLaborer Night. (similar to Corps Night) Oh, what a joy it was to all get together, dressed in our finest, so the Limb Leader could make it perfectly clear what a bunch of worthless pieces of dung we were.

[JavaJane]

Never doing anything right:

Reminds me of FellowLaborers. Every Wednesday night was FellowLaborer Night. (similar to Corps Night) Oh, what a joy it was to all get together, dressed in our finest, so the Limb Leader could make it perfectly clear what a bunch of worthless pieces of dung we were.

But of course, the real sin was in condemning yourself... So many conflicting "truths."

[johniam]

quote:

(Incidently, I was put on a lighter version of Spiritual Probation (no social activities or tv or secular music and meetings with the limb coordinators for some period of time) because I lied to cover my @$$ and avoid another face melting because I used the wrong something or other on a poster and smudged it. I was told I was close to spiritual death, whatever the f*** that means because of that incident.)

What?

As a side note, I have always believed that whoever directed the TV show 'Green Acres' must have been a total acidhead. Just the flow of some of the conversations...between Eddie Albert and Ebb, Hank Kimble, the Ziffels, Alf and Ralph Monroe. Mr. Haney and Sam Drucker were downright rational by comparison. But the Douglases were really in another universe. But this....? No social activities or TV???? Spiritual death? Whatever happened to incorruptible seed? Can anybody say, "Boop! Out goes the button?"

[JavaJane]

Spiritual death, incorruptible seed....

Conflicting truths.

[waysider]

There are no contradictions, it must be in your understanding.

:biglaugh:

[chockfull]

WTF? I guess it was ok for others to lie, but not me. It was also not ok for me to read body language when it came to a leader.

Jane, I have noted this pattern all the way up to the BOD. The leadership thinking IMO that has crept in is that it is "OK" to lie to people, to hide information, and to cover all based upon that verse "that the ministry be not blamed". They equate Paul's actions of refusing to live off of offerings amongst more immature Christian churches to avoid accusations of conflict of interest to justify their lying, cheating, stealing and trading in human flesh.

BOD members will lie directly to your face. Know that. If they will, then it is the rare specimen that you would find at the Region and Limb level that would not do that. Also know that those "inner circles" is where they will lie less to each other. I don't mean not lie. I mean lie less.

And yes, as you describe, the "corporate culture", or "ministry culture" in TWI is that your life is supposed to be an open book to your leader. Which means if you lie like they do, it is not so that "the ministry be not blamed", it is spiritual contamination.

And they think that somehow they are "standing in the gap" for God. They will have a rude awakening when their life review is underway at the return and Jesus Christ points out all their hypocrisy and abuse.

[OldSkool]

JJ, I dealt with similar experiences after I was way disciple in group 5. The former team coordinator moved in with me in MY apartment, with MY name on the lease and all utilities. Only he was interim corps and I was his assistant fellowship coordinator and was planning to start my candidate year for the way corps in the coming year. We also worked together where I was his boss.

It was pure hell. I could do nothing right. He was all over me from day one. Eventually I started fighting back against his accusations. The biggest difference was he was interim corps and did not have a position of authority, like being a limb coordinator, to manipulate against me. Had that been the case I would likely have been marked and avoided.

I have never let anyone treat me like that since, and that was what led to my eventual downfall at HQ with Rosie. I never backed down from her or John Rupp. And in retrospect I am glad I stood my ground and fought for my family. Looking back at all the crap I took after way disciple group 5, I was afraid. I was in fear that I wouldn't cut the mustard to be candidate corps. So, I put up with the little tyrant apprentice corps weenie thinking that it was training and I would be the better for it. Pffft. :confused:/>

Once I stopped being afraid of them they lost all power over me.

I can say that I was a department coordinator, and on the presidents cabinet and did not fall for all the lying and politicking. I did what I could to treat people fair and with love and respect. What's funny was I found myself a buffer between the veiled viscousness of Rosie/BOD and people in my area. My biggest regret is in doing my job with honesty I became a liar because I had to keep confidential what these people were really like.

I quit the lie by quitting the way corps and leaving the way international.

[Twinky]

... I was not supposed to be paranoid.

But they were after me.

And I wasn't supposed to know they were.

Would be funny if it weren't so very true.

That "thinking evil" stuff was a wicked way of making us all shut up - permanently.

Perpetrated by the Father of Lies and foisted upon us by his ministering angels (heh, when did you ever see VPW, LCM and Rosie as ministering angels before, LOL?)

Actually, JJ, you're a woman. And therefore fair game. OF COURSE they were out to get you.

But you only realize that when you find out it was a common pattern. When you find GSC.

[JavaJane]

I think it's weird that I wasn't supposed to be perceptive about people, but they focused so much on discerning of spirits. To this day I will tell myself that I am doing wrong to someone if I think they are being mean or are creepy or something else negative. I learned to shut off those instinctual reactions to people in the name of positive believing, when I should be paying attention to those reactions as a God-given still, small, voice.

So instead of teaching me in depth spiritual perception, they taught me to think God's warning system was evil.

I have read that often when normal people are around psychopaths, they will feel uncomfortable, like prey who can smell a predator. Twi taught me to be perfect prey.

[johniam]

quote: Once I stopped being afraid of them they lost all power over me.

Wow! Fear really IS sand in the machinery of life. Who knew?

Just kidding.

[waysider]

Fear really IS sand in the machinery of life. Who knew?

E. Stanley Jones......He originated the quote.

[OldSkool]

quote: Once I stopped being afraid of them they lost all power over me.

Wow! Fear really IS sand in the machinery of life. Who knew?

Just kidding.

Fear may, or may not be sand in the machinery of life. If fear keeps you alive, or fear of consequences keeps someone from doing evil then it's a good thing. If it's used to control and manipulate others it's just plain wrong.

That particular quote is too absolute, and therefore is in error.

[waysider]

Dealing in absolutes: That should have set off a host of warning alarms for me, as I sat there in session one of PLAF (The Wonder Class). But I was young and searching. The world was in a state of turmoil. The country was divided over a very unpopular war. I suppose I welcomed a sense of "absolute". I was ripe for the picking.

[OldSkool]

Dealing in absolutes: That should have set off a host of warning alarms for me

I was 23 when I took my first foundational class. For all my street smarts, I was to naive too know anything about absolutes and how many, many of them there are in the way international.

Edited January 12, 2013 by OldSkool

[rascal]

Contradictions....you need natural leadership ability to go in the corpses....just use your believing to develop some.......when you failed....man where was your believing.....you must overcome the myriad of obsacles obey your leadership no matter what...but it is then your lack of spirituality when you fail...not their idiotic mandates. When you are unable to attend pre requisit classes due to them being unavailable in your Region...then it was your failure in believing...fall short in your finances prior to entry because you followed strict instructions from your leader where and with whom you would live.....and work....grounds for a face melting because your lack of believing......get married and request being dropped after apprentice year and get a blistering reprimand about what a cop out you are and how your heart had never really been corpses from the prez....three months letter a warm letter of welcome to the house hold of gods spiritual elite because the fellow you married was corpses.....from the same. Buffoon.

On the rare exception that expectations were met....it wasn't because of what you had done, it was God having mercy and covering for your sorry butt

[waysider]

....and all while listening to that droning mantra, "You're the best!".

Edited January 12, 2013 by waysider

[krys]

I think we would all be there still if they followed the principle given by Jesus:

Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. But you're not doing that if you're mistreating His people.

Love your neighbor as yourself. You're not loving them if you're squeezing every ounce of their energy for your use....paying them substandard wages, and take their research papers and claim all this work as your own.

[shortfuse]

I can say that I was a department coordinator, and on the presidents cabinet and did not fall for all the lying and politicking. I did what I could to treat people fair and with love and respect. What's funny was I found myself a buffer between the veiled viscousness of Rosie/BOD and people in my area. My biggest regret is in doing my job with honesty I became a liar because I had to keep confidential what these people were really like.

This sums up very well how I felt on the field and why I ultimately left too.

[JavaJane]

I've been reevaluating and thinking more about my time in twi - and I think I am thankful for it, in a weird way. Without twi I would not have been able to do the kind of soul searching and deep thinking I have done in the last seven years. I have developed empathy, and tolerance, and greater spirituality. And I don't think I would have been able to do that sort of deep introspection if I had not survived the hell that was twi on the field, in a limb home, as a fellowship coordinator, WOW, Way Disciple, Staff, and peon. SO, in a way, thank you, TWI for ruining my life so that I could grab it back as my own.

That being said, and rethinking this thread and all the weird conflicting things we were supposed to believe, I started to think about how I thought when I was in twi. My mind was constantly consumed with a cacophony of thoughts that I now realize were designed to drown out my real inner voice (and probably the real still, small voice od God.) I was constantly obsessing about the Ministry, and how I was or was not "doing the Word" - was I speaking in tongues enough? My desk isn't "decent and in order." I shouldn't condemn myself. I am righteous now. I should go into the Way Corp. I am scared to death of going in the WC. That's devilish. Fear is of the adversary. Is that guy possessed? Am I being influenced by spiirits? Is my life really abundant? Why do I hate witnessing? That's not godly. I'm supposed to be an ambassador for Christ. Why don't I have someone in the class? Someone wants to talk with me. It must be a confrontation.. What did I do this time. If it's a confrontation I should be happy to recieve it because I want to be meek and change. I miss my family. My family is evil and devil possessed.

And it just went on and on and on like that all the time... I didn't have enough room in my head to think my own thoughts, and when they came up, I would squash them back down with some retemory, which I never knew enough of.

There was always more to do, and never enough time to do it all, and it was never good enough.

I realized last week that my internal voice sounds like a WC overseer, or like LCM. I yell at myself when I screw up the way LCM yelled at everyone at all times.

I would never speak like that to anyone else. Why do I speak that way to myself? A better question - WHY DO I STILL TALK THAT WAY TO MYSELF??

I am going to have to work on that. A lot.

But, TWI, I'm not afraid of you anymore. Or of your made up adversary. Kiss my @$$.

Edited January 19, 2013 by JavaJane

[Twinky]

I hear ya, JJ.

The good stuff - like better empathy etc. The lemonade from the lemons.

And the bad stuff - that we all had and have to wade through to get to the empathy.

But how is it that some people manage to develop the empathy and real heart for others, without having had to go through all that TWI dange? Were those of us who fell for TWI' and their methods especially bad at empathy, etc, and needed a specially tough dose of medicine?

[JavaJane]

But how is it that some people manage to develop the empathy and real heart for others, without having had to go through all that TWI dange? Were those of us who fell for TWI' and their methods especially bad at empathy, etc, and needed a specially tough dose of medicine?

I did have a good sense of empathy when I got involved with TWI and then convinced myself that the empathy was wrong. I remember being told right after I cut off my parents (I was having anxiety attacks with some pretty big physical symptoms) that I should stop trying to "put myself in their shoes" because that was causing me to lose control ofmy thinking. So I turned off the empathy. The lesson in empathy I learned is to have empathy for those who hurt others, for those who hurt you, and for those who are led astray by religion to the point they are blinded by it.

So maybe I don't mean empathy... Maybe I mean forgiveness and mercy. I don't excuse the behavior, but I do understand how it happens. I've been there.

We all have different things we need to learn in life, and we learn differently, even in the same situations and circumstances. Some post-Way people don't have empathy. Heck, some post-Way people are exactly the same as they were in twi. Me? I'm probably more like I was before my life was hijacked by twi at the age of 12, or rather more like the adult I would have been like if I wasn't hijacked by twi. But I think I am a little bit deeper, and I am not so quick to judge those I don't see eye to eye with.

[waysider]

The Way openly discouraged empathy, as evidenced by the familiar phrase, "You have no friends when it comes to the word (Way theology)."