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Hi Greasespotters!

Here's the latest from everybody's favorite phony "Chief Minister", Jalvis, the all knowing and entertaining, greatest mog since the 20th Century! dictor paul wierwille himself would be proud of jally's great work, and "how far beyond" PIFFLE johnny-boy's taken it all! How many min-us-trays is that now oh comedic one? twit's ECU, and limp of IN, crippling the way corpse from 1980-84, CES, STFI, hundreds of websites, FB pages, audios, videos, books, syllabi, and horrible jokes ALL on everybody else's dimes! Now it's TLTF. Oy vey ist mir Johnny. Will you ever run out of hot, smelly, air for your lifelong self-obsession and self-delusion? Hopefully sooner than later.

Join The End Times DiscussionOctober 17th-24th 2015 https://www.facebook.com/TETSeminar

Edited by DontWorryBeHappy
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Can we get the condensed version?

Hi Greasespotters! Here's the latest from everybody's favorite phony "Chief Minister", Jalvis, the all knowing and entertaining, greatest mog since the 20th Century! dictor paul wierwille himself wou

Thanks for providing the link DWBH, I would ask for your bottom line but I will hold that question until after I watch the stuff.

Evidently you dislike John Lynn, what's up with that? I ain't protecting anybody, you just seem to have an issue with him.

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Thanks for providing the link DWBH, I would ask for your bottom line but I will hold that question until after I watch the stuff.

Evidently you dislike John Lynn, what's up with that? I ain't protecting anybody, you just seem to have an issue with him.

I have no issue with jally. His issues are with The Boss, Jesus Christ. But, as a proud follower of his by your own choice of words, I suppose you wouldn't know much about Jesus Christ because he's still absent in the latest version of your pal JAL's min-us-try. You call yourself a "follower" of TLTF. What's up with that?

Edited by DontWorryBeHappy
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I browsed around on their Youtube channel for a bit. There are a few channels I like to watch a lot of... but this is NOT one of them. I would have the heck embarrassed out of me if I was associated with this channel.

I like to see what John is up to occasionally. From 1989 to 1996 I followed John fairly closely... just about the same amount of time I spent involved with TWI. I contributed to the Dialogue newsletter, and when he was on the road, John let me teach the fellowship that met in his home. At first, he wanted to save the things he considered good about TWI and get rid of what was bad. But there was no fear of the LORD before his eyes... he learned that from Wierwille... and he flattered himself so much that he lost the ability to distinguish what was good from what was bad (Psalm 36:1-4). I liked John as a person, but he's been gone off the rails for a long time.

So much so, that he thought Momentus was a good thing, and far too many peoples' lives were wrecked by it. John's cluelessness makes him dangerous, in the worst way.

In the last days of CES before the shift to Stiffy, John, John and Mark decided to host a seminar addressing various questions that people had brought up. I wrote and submitted a paper about how fallacious dispensationalism (Wierwille's "administrations") is. My paper was solid research. Instead of considering and rebutting viewpoints other than their own, they cancelled the seminar. I don't attribute their decision to my paper alone. There were others, too. The upshot of this paragraph is that the leaders of Stiffy and the Teenage Mutant Truth Fellowship have had an opportunity to seriously consider the truth about what they are teaching, and they deliberately chose to ignore that truth.

"GET A CHART! GET A LIFE!"

What kind of rallying cry is THAT! The rallying cry I taught to my seventh-grade students was "EXERCISE JUDGMENT!"

It struck me from the time I started to really question the things John says that he often makes the most audacious claims, unconsciously equating himself with God and the Word. "GET A CHART! GET A LIFE!" reminds me of Proverbs 4:20-23. Wisdom's words are life to those who find them, and health to all their flesh. There is nothing... and I mean NOTHING... on TMTF's chart that communicates the gospel of salvation... nothing that communicates life or health.

There is a fifteen minute video on the channel titled "Social Media Tips" about how to use the stickers on facebook. I thought "what is this? a clever scheme for promoting their group on facebook?" IT WASN'T! It was the most stupid, insipid, condescending drivel I've EVER viewed! John thinks he is being media savvy, but he is just once more demonstrating his cluelessness.

And the fact that Adam was a Gentile is some kind of ignorance-shattering revelation that will motivate people to take a class on THE END TIMES!!!! OH EM GEE

Love,

Steve

Edited by Steve Lortz
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Thanks for your post Steve. Your perspective is interesting, to say the least. Unfortunately, your experience with their "commitment to truth" runs parallel to mine and that if many others who have ever attempted to work with lynn and schoenheit. Since, imo, authentic humbleness of mind is the single most important "key" to a genuine relationship with The Boss Jesus Christ, it is impossible to work with them unless you agree with them, or let them have their way. Neither has any credentials outside their time in twit, which qualify them to be researchers, teachers, or pastors . NONE. When ya got nothin' you can make up whatever you want, just like their faddah in da woid. It's right because God told me it's right. Or, even worse, it's right because I say it's right. And, that's where they both are now. They can't even get along with each other and they're going to "teach" the Church the "living truth" rightly-divided? They haven't even explained their occult practice of personal prophecy, or the damage they did to scores of innocent ex-wayfers looking for some good counsel and direction after making it out of twit, by herding into Momentus so they could convince them all they just got the counsel they need to get over it and move on sending all your money and allegiance to them now like nothing ever happened.

Redoing "the class", and then-redoing it again, and then again. More glitz, more jokes, more entertainment.....more misinterpreted and plagiarized Bullinger, Welch, Stiles, B.G. Leonard, and Greg Pharis, Dan Tocchini, and of course, their favorite, the gold they stole from Egypt from their faddah in da woid, the woid as it ain't been known and rightly divided since da foist senchry

And, we've chewed it all up and spit out all them bones so we could puke up all the great fishy meat of PFAL that you missed the first 432 times you took it. That's right! You don't even have to chew your own food any more. We'll do it for ya. We'll teach ya da woid so you can know enough to send us your tithes and offerings, so we can make more classes, print more syllabi, write more books, start more websites and FB pages, make more audits, videos, and seminars, dream up all sortsa needless events, advances, subgroups, study groups, discussion groups, so they can beg more people for more money to do more of the same as infinitum. That's moving da woid to them. "Witnessing" people into the class, giving them 20 Keys To Understanding The Bible, 16 Keys to Walking By Da Spurt, 400 retemories, 120 Listening With a Purpose Questions, 10 more books, 5 more classes, all filled with all the info you need to take the place of the absent Christ, know more than he knew about the Sacred Secret, tell EVERY Christian they're reading other people's mail and then tell them all what's TO them and what's only FOR THEIR LEARNING, give them all a bunch of works to do to prove to themselves and you how spurchal and faithful they are. They can even become Board of Elders material if they work hard enough. All Ya gotta do is take their class 10 more times, send 'em a measely $5-$10 a week, attend their annual FL vacation......skuse me....national Fellowship in FL every winter, and you'll get a free copy of somrthing you already own and a free PayPal membership so you can tithe real easy. Ya see, tithing to them gets you off the guilt trip of being totally unable to do any of the works and things necessary to move da woid which helps people and that's what Geeezus would do. So the best thing you can do to live and move da word, and to live the more abundant life, is to pay us to make this dang up fulltime, so we can do everything you can't to move da woid which keeps you happily guilt-free and feeling like your really helping people by moving da woid! That's what moving the word and helping people means to these self-serving, self-important, self-obsessed "minister mogs" who take the place of jeeesus for you, do all the works you can't or won't do for you and THEN, when THEY're done doin' their moggy thang, and moving da woid over da woild, gawd can finally let jeeesus go from His right hand, so he can come back and give all these fabulous moggies a gold cookie at their bema. Just keep them 'fulltime' do they don't have anything else to do but keep you busy listening to them and paying them for the privilege.

Edited by DontWorryBeHappy
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I just realized, while reconsidering John's contribution to the video you posted, DontWorryBeHappy, how colossally arrogant and ignorant it is to teach that Adam was a Gentile. Colossally arrogant and ignorant of Wierwille as well as of Lynn.

Adam was NOT a Gentile! There WERE NO Jews or Christians then, so there couldn't be any Gentiles either. Adam was primarily a HUMAN BEING. Not just any human being, but until the woman came along, Adam was THE human being... designed and created by God himself. Adam was an unfallen human being, vastly superior to anyone else except for Jesus Christ himself... including every Christian currently alive... including Wierwille and Lynn.

In practice, Wierwille's doctrine of "Jews, Gentiles and the Church of God" destroyed the dignity and respect with which we are to regard other people as fellow HUMAN BEINGS. Wayfers don't consider anyone except themselves to be fully human. Other people are merely "empties floating by." I Corinthians 10:32, the verse from which Darby extracted his doctrine of Jew, Gentile and Church of God, says that we are not to give offense to anybody, neither to Jew nor to Gentile nor to Church of God. Darby took that verse and TURNED IT INTO AN OFFENSE against Jew, Gentile AND the Church of God, because Darby used it to teach members of the Church that they should think more highly of themselves than they ought.

No wonder the principal members of what was CES are so committed to their erroneous definition of the mystery. It makes them better than any other people. It makes people other than themselves less than human...

No wonder they continually miss what the real gospel... the real good news... is. They think the good news is "Our doctrine can make you better than anybody else! Surely you want to be better than anybody else! GET A CHART! GET A LIFE!"

Love,

Steve

Edited by Steve Lortz
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Excellent points Steve. Thank you!

The hyperdispensationalism if both schoenheit and lynn is not rooted in wierwille, but rather primarily in Bullinger with some Charles Welch thrown in for good measure. Vic, and therfore schoenheit and lynn unabashedly and continually plagiarize these two in twit's entire understanding and doctrine of all things Pauline, and and the entire simply reworded "administrations in scripture" doctrine and teaching in all three of their "foundational classes". They just make up their own versions of Vic's versions of Bullinger and Welch's versions of the Greek NT and their intricate structure and "working" of the Church Epistles, The Mystery,, and the dispensations I.e. "get to whom correct"" in the King James English Version of the New Testament. Compared to what textual, MSS, and archaeological discoveries and compilations of same has unearthed since just 1980 alone! Bullinger and Welch had about 10% of the research materials and MS and historical and archaeological evidence available since 1980 alone! And yet, as far as TLTF and STFI are concerned, they're teaching the " latest and greatest" research available on their versions of 19th century hyperdispensationalism. Not very credible, and that REV is even more laughable and ludicrous, and not even heard of let alone respected or peer-reviewed by any biblical scholars if any merit anywhere in the world. All it does is reflect the misguided arrogance and incompetence of its "authors".

These great researchers and scholars and theologians at TLTF and STFI have no concept of honest, legitimate. accredited Biblical research or textual criticism or even elementary exegesis and homiletics outside of Vic's versions of these things as he learned them in the Evangelical and Reformed Seminary at Lakeland College in WI. Then, his clever little rise of having graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary in NJ as if it was THE Princeton University seminary. It was NOT! That seminary, though denomination ally accredited had absolutely no affiliation with Princeton University ever, other than in name confusion! That's all the real theological and ministerial training vic ever had, and he barely maintained a low C GPA. None of the "leaders" at TLTF or STFI have ever graduated any legitimate, fully accredited seminary of any kind any where in the world. Their only "credentials" come from vic, the way c of e, and Rome City. And, they're all bogus and not even worth the fake sheepskin they're printed on. An obscure class at some even more obscure bible college somewhere on the Trinity doesn't really constitute much legitimate training in theology, divinity ministry and pastoral counseling. It doesn't even earn ya college credit.

So, when it comes to their life giving chart on the administrations if scripture it's just rehashed Bullinger, welch and vic, strained through a lot of B. G. Leonard and "taken further" by unqualified morons with even less biblical research training and qualifications than vic himself! Sheesh! No wonder they can't handle discussion on anything they so accurately teach, let alone ANY questions. They have absolutely NOTHING of any credible value biblically, ministerially, or socially to any human being on the planet. They need all their money for themselves.

What complete and total frauds at every level. And they're surprised when I call them anti(against)- Christ??

Get a chart and get a life assholes!

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In practice, Wierwille's doctrine of "Jews, Gentiles and the Church of God" destroyed the dignity and respect with which we are to regard other people as fellow HUMAN BEINGS. Wayfers don't consider anyone except themselves to be fully human. Other people are merely "empties floating by." I Corinthians 10:32, the verse from which Darby extracted his doctrine of Jew, Gentile and Church of God, says that we are not to give offense to anybody, neither to Jew nor to Gentile nor to Church of God. Darby took that verse and TURNED IT INTO AN OFFENSE against Jew, Gentile AND the Church of God, because Darby used it to teach members of the Church that they should think more highly of themselves than they ought.

Jesus died for all, right? For Jew and for Gentile; and for Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, animist, atheist, witch, warlock, rich person, homeless street dweller, and all other human beings.

Jesus thought the price he was to pay was worth it, for all these people. ALL these people.

So who is anyone to say that any other person *isn't worth it"? Who is entitled to "look down on" any other person? Regardless of their beliefs and apparent standing in a "church" or their supposed membership of the "Body of Christ."

Gal6:10 tells us: "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith."

>>>>>> "Especially" is not another word for "exclusively." <<<<<<

Here's that verse in context - an exhortation not to be picky or to demand entrance to "the club" - if you're interested: Gal 6:9-15

Edited by Twinky
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Hi Greasespotters!

Here's the latest from everybody's favorite phony "Chief Minister", Jalvis, the all knowing and entertaining, greatest mog since the 20th Century! dictor paul wierwille himself would be proud of jally's great work, and "how far beyond" PIFFLE johnny-boy's taken it all! How many min-us-trays is that now oh comedic one? twit's ECU, and limp of IN, crippling the way corpse from 1980-84, CES, STFI, hundreds of websites, FB pages, audios, videos, books, syllabi, and horrible jokes ALL on everybody else's dimes! Now it's TLTF. Oy vey ist mir Johnny. Will you ever run out of hot, smelly, air for your lifelong self-obsession and self-delusion? Hopefully sooner than later.

Join The End Times DiscussionOctober 17th-24th 2015 https://www.facebook.com/TETSeminar

o the fail. I finally actually watched this. that guy lives in the wrong century. he really should be wearing a top hat in a horse drawn wagon with painted sides in the 1800's because he surely is the classic huckster, the snake-oil-salesman prototype. a stand-in for steve martin in a leap of faith. johnny-boy really needs to be true to his real calling and go ownership in a used car dealership with someone.

even funnier were the testimonials. no, I'm not enthusiastic about the class so that I can turn out to be a stand-in cast for the walking dead, like all of those giving testimonials.

dwbh I am dumb but finally figured out who you are. never had the pleasure sir during my cultish journey as I was a decade plus after yalls.

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  • 3 weeks later...

In true hyperdispensationalism, the various sects arising from TWI take the "church of god" thing to a new level. To some degree, only those in "possession of the truth" are truly the "church" - everyone else is deceived and therefore lesser children of god...if that.

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"... we think that zeal for truth, as it is called, is very suspicious except in men whose capacities and advantages, whose patient deliberation, and whose improvements in humility, mildness, and candor, give them a right to hope that their views are more just than those of their neighbours. Much of what passes for a zeal for truth we look upon with little respect, for it often appears to thrive most luxuriantly where other virtues shoot up thinly and feebly; and we have no gratitude for those reformers who would force upon us a doctrine which has not sweetened their own tempers or made them better men than their neighbours."

-- William Channing

It would be good for some on this site to consider this as they go about their Christian lives. Ridicule is not a fruit of the spirit.

Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind. Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing.

1 Peter 3:8-9

Edited by Jon Touchstone
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".....men whose capacities and advantages, whose patient deliberation, and whose improvements in humility, mildness, and candor, give them a right to hope that their views are more just than those of their neighbours."

SERIOUSLY??

You think this describes the subjects being discussed? Or, am I misinterpreting your implication?

Here's a newsflash.

The whole dogma of dispensations/administrations and 3 types of people is an elitist attempt to say "my dog's bigger than your dog.". It's the antithesis of what you seem to be suggesting.

(Unless I'm misunderstanding the meaning of what you are saying, in which case I preemptively apologize.)

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".....men whose capacities and advantages, whose patient deliberation, and whose improvements in humility, mildness, and candor, give them a right to hope that their views are more just than those of their neighbours."

SERIOUSLY??

You think this describes the subjects being discussed? Or, am I misinterpreting your implication?

Here's a newsflash.

The whole dogma of dispensations/administrations and 3 types of people is an elitist attempt to say "my dog's bigger than your dog.". It's the antithesis of what you seem to be suggesting.

(Unless I'm misunderstanding the meaning of what you are saying, in which case I preemptively apologize.)

It would seem to me, waysider, that Jon Touchstone is not imputing "humility, mildness and candor" to Lynn or any other TWI/exTWI leaders, but rather encouraging US to humility, mildness and candor in our zeal for OUR truth! Thanks to you both!

Love,

Steve

Edited by Steve Lortz
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Prove all things, hold fast that which is good... ?

Come on, who is really suggesting we again, 40 years after some of us first delegated our right to critically analyze all things religion to a con man, that we continue on the path of deception based on the entertainment value of jalvis and his partners in crime?

Perhaps there is wisdom we (or anyone so inclined) can glean from the writings of William Channing, but I'm not so sure it's a fitting admonition for addressing the tone of this thread.

"In opposition to traditional American Calvinist orthodoxy, Channing preferred a gentle, loving relationship with God."

The subject of this thread isn't, and please excuse me if I'm wrong, about a relationship with God.

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Assuming all (without exception or without distinction ;-)) of us remained Christian. Not that I think doing those things is wrong. I just find that people who ought to be doing those things themselves think it necessary to point out when they think others aren't.

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Jon a Touchstone? A genuine TLTF Board of Twustees member??

OMG! Have you read that Channing quote to you "chief minister"? Humility, mildness and candor might be appropriate to introduce your "chief minister" to Jon. Maybe your pal Bottley too?

Edited by DontWorryBeHappy
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Prove all things, hold fast that which is good... ?

Come on, who is really suggesting we again, 40 years after some of us first delegated our right to critically analyze all things religion to a con man, that we continue on the path of deception based on the entertainment value of jalvis and his partners in crime?

Perhaps there is wisdom we (or anyone so inclined) can glean from the writings of William Channing, but I'm not so sure it's a fitting admonition for addressing the tone of this thread.

"In opposition to traditional American Calvinist orthodoxy, Channing preferred a gentle, loving relationship with God."

The subject of this thread isn't, and please excuse me if I'm wrong, about a relationship with God.

Yes, you have the sermon correct, Rocky, but I think you missed Channing's point. Please see below:

"I need not express to you our views on the subject of the benevolent virtues. We attach such importance to these that we are sometimes reproached with exalting them above piety. We regard the spirit of love, charity, meekness, forgiveness, liberality, and beneficence, as the badge and distinction of Christians, as the brightest image we can bear of God, as the best proof of piety. On this subject, I need not, and cannot enlarge; but there is one branch of benevolence which I ought not to pass over in silence, because we think that we conceive of it more highly and justly than many of our brethren. I refer to the duty of candid, charitable judgment, especially towards those who differ in religious opinion. We think, that in nothing have Christians so widely departed from their religion, as in this particular. We read with astonishment and horror, the history of the church; and sometimes when we look back on the fires of persecution, and on the zeal of Christians, in building up walls of separation, and in giving up one another to perdition, we feel as if we were reading the records of an infernal, rather than a heavenly kingdom. An enemy to every religion, if asked to describe a Christian, would, with some show of reason, depict him as an idolater of his own distinguishing opinions, covered with badges of party, shutting his eyes on the virtues, and his ears on the arguments, of his opponents, arrogating all excellence to his own sect and all saving power to his own creed, sheltering under the name of pious zeal the love of domination, the conceit of infallibility, and the spirit of intolerance, and trampling on men's rights under the pretense of saving their souls.

We can hardly conceive of a plainer obligation on beings of our frail and fallible nature, who are instructed in the duty of candid judgment, than to abstain from condemning men of apparent conscientiousness and sincerity, who are chargeable with no crime but that of differing from us in the interpretation of the Scriptures, and differing, too, on topics of great and acknowledged obscurity. We are astonished at the hardihood of those, who, with Christ's warnings sounding in their ears, take on them the responsibility of making creeds for his church, and cast out professors of virtuous lives for imagined errors, for the guilt of thinking for themselves. We know that zeal for truth is the cover for this usurpation of Christ's prerogative; but we think that zeal for truth, as it is called, is very suspicious, except in men, whose capacities and advantages, whose patient deliberation, and whose improvements in humility, mildness, and candor, give them a right to hope that their views are more just than those of their neighbours. Much of what passes for a zeal for truth, we look upon with little respect, for it often appears to thrive most luxuriantly where other virtues shoot up thinly and feebly; and we have no gratitude for those reformers, who would force upon us a doctrine which has not sweetened their own tempers, or made them better men than their neighbours.

We are accustomed to think much of the difficulties attending religious inquiries; difficulties springing from the slow development of our minds, from the power of early impressions, from the state of society, from human authority, from the general neglect of the reasoning powers, from the want of just principles of criticism and of important helps in interpreting Scripture, and from various other causes. We find, that on no subject have men, and even good men, ingrafted so many strange conceits, wild theories, and fictions of fancy, as on religion; and remembering, as we do, that we ourselves are sharers of the common frailty, we dare not assume infallibility in the treatment of our fellow-Christians, or encourage in common Christians, who have little time for investigation, the habit of denouncing and condemning other denominations, perhaps more enlightened and virtuous than their own. Charity, forbearance, a delight in the virtues of different sects, a backwardness to censure and condemn, these are virtues, which, however poorly practiced by us, we admire and recommend; and we would rather join ourselves to the church in which they abound, than to any other communion, however elated with the belief of its own orthodoxy, however strict in guarding its creed, however burning with zeal against imagined error."

-- William Channing, 1813

Edited by Jon Touchstone
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