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skyrider

Self-Inflicted: The Long, Slow Realization of Wierwille's Avid Plagiarism and Sexual Predation

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"The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine."

.........and the wheels of the internet will grind wierwille's legacy into fine powder that the winds of time will blow away. 

There are still pfal-grads out there who are clinging to the cliff edge of "Wierwille's Mythical Mountain."  Just this past week alone, two new posters have come to GSC to express their support of wierwille's pfal class. One poster began his defense of wierwille by saying "honor the fathers" [and fathers of the faith].......while the other poster revealed his talks with Wanda Wierwille and how she openly admitted vpw's double life and sexual predation.  Thus, he was left to grapple with this dichotomy.

May I suggest an alternate path?

STOP climbing wierwille's mythical mountain.

Throughout the scriptures, we are taught that God will feed those hungering for the truth.......perhaps, pfal was just the sampling appetizer where you could pick and choose which things you wanted to munch on before the main meal arrives?   Rather than heap praise on wierwille......of which, he plagiarized the whole meal of pfal......why not give glory to God for leading you to the dinner table of Truth?  Pfal was certainly not an end-all of truth......only morsels of truth, some good and some not.  Here at GSC, we have discussed and dissected the "good, bad and ugly" of pfal and hundreds of other doctrinal truths served in that class.

I understand the temptation to give honor to pfal.......yet, when you discover that wierwille plagiarized [stole] this class wholesale from Rev. B.G. Leonard it shades that wierwille-honor considerably.  Then, when you start digging and find out that Leonard's class illustrated characters like Maggie Muggins, Snowball Pete and Henry Boloko........whoa, what??  Wierwille even stole these fictional characters?  He stole this class so completely that he couldn't even get rid of Maggie Muggins?  Un-freaking-believable!!

Anyone in the academic field who has written term papers or done research work KNOWS to footnote their sources to avoid charges of plagiarism.  Plagairism is a serious offense and is a scarlet letter to those who are caught.  Wierwille was a serial plagiarist........a thief who stole from Leonard, Stiles, Bullinger and others.  Wierwille's book "Receiving the holy spirit Today" is another whole-cloth example.  This wound was self-inflicted.

The "wheels of the internet" have exposed wierwille's sexual predation as well.  From testimonies here at GSC, and supported by two or three witnesses (at least), women have come forward to tell their stories of sexual abuse, drugging and rape.  These facts have followed wierwille thru the years from Van Wert back to his ancestral farm, the headquarters of twi.  Fortified by an inner circle of cult loyalists, a doctrine whereby devil spirits would always attack the man of god, and young corps girls who had submitted their innermost secrets and personal history in a tell-all paper that wierwille requested from all corps......AND a rumbling-motel-on-wheels (a motor coach guarded by bodyguards) that stopped at these corps campuses....... wierwille's sexual predation was unleashed. 

Unlike martindale, who was groomed by wierwille to "loosen up his moral and sexual proclivities" ....... wierwille's sexual predation was self-inflicted.  Some have suggested that there was sexual abuse in victor's childhood, but that has not been confirmed (as far as I know). 

Needless to say.......victor paul wierwille has been in the grave for nearly 35 years now and some have, still, not connected the dots on this.  Clearly the scriptures give us warnings on every hand about wolves in sheep's clothing, hirelings, whited sepulchers, deceivers, seducers, etc.......time and again.  Yet, throughout the pfal class wierwille weaves this tapestry that he is shepherding the flock of God, not a hireling......he, wierwille, is calling out the Pharisees of organized religion and setting people free...... and he is opening up the scriptures from the deceivers in denominational churches.  He claims to speak of a message of liberty.......spiritually and sexually.  Wierwille heralds the message of Romans 8......that there is no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus and "who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?"  Love God and live as you fool-please.  How convenient to cherry-pick "spiritual liberty."

As a pastor, teacher and man of God (cough, cough).......wierwille was to abide by I Timothy 3:

  • The office of an overseer.....is to desire a good work
  • Must be blameless
  • The (faithful) husband of one wife
  • Vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach
  • Not given to wine, no striker, but patient, not a brawler, not covetous
  • Etc.......................

In closing........here at Greasespot Café, it has been reported that even those over at CFF (who were staunch defenders of wierwille's impact and legacy) have distanced themselves from this past association.  Rather than sort thru all the twists and turns of what we were once taught......it is FAR GREATER to just cleave to that which IS.

Peace.

 

 

.

Edited by skyrider

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On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 11:59 AM, Raymo said:

How important is it to "honor the fathers"? Those fathers in the faith who have affected our lives in some positive way, should be honored, shouldn't they? Not everything everyone does is good, and not everything they do is bad. We do not want to bless evil, and neither do we want to curse those things that are good, right?

I was just thinking about how much time we spent in the scripture at the cross of Jesus, in the PFAL class. Thinking back on my 60 + years of life, I can not recall anyone ever, taking me through so much time on the events of the life of Jesus, at the cross. Nobody ever did that with me that I can recall, other than VPW in that PFAL class. Did all that time at the cross have a positive benefit on our lives or not? Well how many people stood up when we were told to set our things aside, stand up, and speak in tongues? It was not at all uncommon for every new student to do exactly that.

I'm not saying that everything we were taught about those crucified with Christ was accurate. Today I don't believe as I was told back then, and did go along with. However, just thinking about how much time we spent on the events at the cross, is amazing. We really did hear about Christ and him crucified, right? Who has ever done that with us? Maybe some people have had that happen to them, before or since PFAL. I don't know, but I don't think it would be the majority.

I received the Holy Spirit with the manifestation of speaking in tongues, when I was reading a chapter out of one of his books that were a part of the class. which as I recall we had to purchase separately...long time ago to recall for me, but one of those small books had a very short chapter called "How To Speak In Tongues."

It was in PFAL, that I learned about where we got the scriptures. It was in PFAL that I received a respect and reverence for God. He really was with us in our meetings. Christ really was evident though us. through our lives, and the Holy Spirit actually was manifest among us. though the manifestations of the Spirit we functioned in. There was so much good in PFAL. Not everything in it was necessarily right on, but there was so, so, so much good and correct in it, right? Sure you know that's right. (VPW must have known the value of acknowledgement of the truth is. It's important. He knew how to draw that out of us, at times when we needed it.)

So I leave with this question to think about: How important is it to honor the fathers and mothers of the faith? (those who have taught us, and led us into the truth, and mentored us) Remember that it is those who honor the truth that can benefit from it, right? Now none of our teachers are the truth itself. Jesus is the truth, as well as the life, but every life has something to be honored, doesn't it? How have we been doing at that?

 

Raymo........I hope your post is not just a "drive-by posting" and down the road you go.

If you took the time to post this........ hopefully, you want to engage in a little open-forum discussion, no?

 

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Quote

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Mike Barbour posted (above)  the following.......

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Until the Way leadership repents and apologizes for it's sins, sins either by commission or omission, then I will have nothing more to do with them. 

I believe Dr. Weirwille did teach the Truth to the best of his ability and certainly challenged each of us to prove the scriptures for ourselves. 

 He said the Way never makes anybody leave, just anybody.   Well, the homophobic, self righteous bastard that followed him certainly dispelled that myth.  I had a very long talk with Wanda Weirwille right after everything came out about the sex scenes.  She openly admitted it was happening, unlike any of those in leadership positions.  I told her I care about TWI but I can't stand in support of what leadership was doing behind closed doors.  Teaching one thing and doing another is NOT okay, it's hypocritical at  best and insidious.   Letting the Devil in even a little bit means you've lost any legitimacy you might have ever had. 

I'm sorry but I don't see anywhere in the Word that it's ok to lead a double life, nor is it ok to yell at and berate people.  Being especially good to those of the household of faith means you have to actually BE that!  What Martindale did and the rest of them, and yes, even VPW is not something that is tolerable in least sense.  Excusing it is even worse.

  I entered the Way when I was completely lost.  I was healed by the Word.  I thought we were surrounded by good men and women.  I never put my faith in man, my faith is and always remained having my faith in God.  I believe we were taught more Truth than any other organization on the planet, and I still believe that to be true. 

There were faults that crept in, having superiority complexes for a start, perpetuated over and over again, especially by Craig Martindale.  Of course VPW did that as well, anyone born again is of the household of faith, not those just in the Way. 

It always bothered me the title bestowed on VPW.  The father in the word was damn near blasphemy!  God is our Father, not VPW. 

This among other things let the fox into the henhouse so to speak.  The I can sleep with any number of women I want was another one.  Even if God hadn't changed, old testament people having multiple wives, that's fine, but they weren't teaching that NOR were they taking in multiple wives.  The sex club was out of bounds for anything God ever said was ok. 

The homophobia and purging after VPW died is also against God's Word.  NO one has any scripture saying you kick "sinners" out to the curb.  That goes against everything Jesus did and taught his disciples to do and nowhere does God allow that.  There is a specific instance where God says to hand someone over to the adversary.  But, if that's what they were justifying what did upon they were dead wrong.  That scripture deals with disruptive people who are inside causing trouble and being disruptive to the body.  That's not why they were throwing people out on their foot.  Tbey were throwing anyone out who dared to question them about anything. 

Or who they believed were somehow a threat, like gay people, who news flash, are usually some of the least troublesome people you'd ever meet.  I don't know their heads got so big they thought they were doing God's work.  Except as I said, you give the Devil an inch and he will steal, kill and destroy everything of God. 

You can't serve two masters. You can claim to be serving one, but if you're serving the other then you're not serving one.   You can't teach people one thing and do another and call yourself serving God.  Mistakes and sins can be forgiven, but purposely lying and covering up a double life doesn't leave time to serve God. 

Now, if they had come out and said this is what we are doing and here is what God says about and why it's ok, and research had been done proving they are living a life decent and in order according to God's Word, then we would have had a starting point to start figuring out if they were telling us Truth. But, of course they couldn't,  so they chose to hide it behind closed doors until men and women decided enough already, and brought their double lives to light. 

Then, OMG, they had to purge people because God forbid anyone stand up to them with doctrine!  Like John Shoengeit (spelling?) did with his research paper during a time the Research Ministry was, gasp, suspended.  You can't call yourself one thing and refuse to do it.

Martindale decided then we had to get back to basics.  Basic what?  Idolatry?  Polishing the pedestal VPW was placed on?  Basic what exactly?  Isn't it basic scripture you were using to sleep with multiple women?  Oh, NO, of course it wasn't.   So how dare someone research to see if it's ok to be unfaithful to your wife/husband?!  Then get thrown on his foot when his paper says, shocker, it's not ok. 

Anyone around during that time either knew it was happening or were part of it.  So, anyone that remained after it was exposed was either supporting it directly or indirectly.   I went one step further and recalled scripture not to believe anything against an elder except in the case of 2 or 3 witnesses.   I got multiple witnesses before I ever saw Wanda Weirwille. 

 So, until leadership apologizes for the wrong they did or supported and takes responsibility for the blatantly false doctrine perpetuated by all the leaders, our only Father being God, anyone born again in the household of faith etc.  I just will support doctrinal and practical errors. 

They truly do owe a huge apology to everyone they hurt or continue to hurt..................

................[snip]

 

Lots of good stuff in this post.  Stick around.

Thanks Mike.

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Can anyone tell me where i can find the post which states that
vw did not really believe the word of God?
This was why I think he was such a bold faced liar
The article records the admissions in bullet form

Thanks

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2 hours ago, Waxit said:

Can anyone tell me where i can find the post which states that
vw did not really believe the word of God?
This was why I think he was such a bold faced liar
The article records the admissions in bullet form

Thanks

The discussion "The Way-Living in Wonderland"  discussed the book "The Way-Living in Love."   We had excerpts of the content of that book, and discussed them.  One of the quotes was from something like the second year of vpw's career as a minister, meaning he'd completed years of study to complete a Masters and Doctorate in Divinity.  BTW, the Masters was from the respectable Princeton Theological Seminary (not Princeton University, but both are located at Princeton NJ, thus their names)  and the Doctorate was from Pikes Peak Seminary, which was more of a degree mill than anything else, with all work submitted by mail.

The quote was from that time, and said Dr Higgins (I think it was her)  introduced him to the idea that the Bible was the Word of God.  He claimed he hadn't heard that before- not believing it, anyway.  At the time, he'd been working as a pastor at a church and delivering sermons on Sunday.    I'll see if I can get a link to the thread, then the post.  BTW, since that got discussed in the thread, there's more than 1 post that's relevant, obviously.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

The discussion "The Way-Living in Wonderland"  discussed the book "The Way-Living in Love."   We had excerpts of the content of that book, and discussed them.  One of the quotes was from something like the second year of vpw's career as a minister, meaning he'd completed years of study to complete a Masters and Doctorate in Divinity.  BTW, the Masters was from the respectable Princeton Theological Seminary (not Princeton University, but both are located at Princeton NJ, thus their names)  and the Doctorate was from Pikes Peak Seminary, which was more of a degree mill than anything else, with all work submitted by mail.

The quote was from that time, and said Dr Higgins (I think it was her)  introduced him to the idea that the Bible was the Word of God.  He claimed he hadn't heard that before- not believing it, anyway.  At the time, he'd been working as a pastor at a church and delivering sermons on Sunday.    I'll see if I can get a link to the thread, then the post.  BTW, since that got discussed in the thread, there's more than 1 post that's relevant, obviously.

 

 

It was not Dr Higgins, it was Rosalind Rinker.

The thread "the Way-Living in Wonderland"  (I heartily recommend that thread and "vp and Me in Wonderland"  when you have time)  is here:

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/7363-the-wayliving-in-wonderland/

Towards the bottom of page 1 was my post dated  August 29, 2005, and that's where the quote appears.  We discuss that very quote later- Oakspear, IIRC, spotted it first and we discussed it from there.   *checks*  At the bottom of page 10, SUNESIS  was the one that caught it (not Oakspear.)  We start discussing it further on page 11.

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8 hours ago, Waxit said:

Can anyone tell me where i can find the post which states that
vw did not really believe the word of God?
This was why I think he was such a bold faced liar
The article records the admissions in bullet form

Thanks

== == == ==

from WordWolf's thread The Way: Living in Wonderland

On 8/29/2005 at 9:08 AM, WordWolf said:

pg-176, vpw continues his tale:

(snip)...

I was praying. And I told Father outright that He could have the whole thing, unless

there were real genuine answers that I wouldn't ever have to back up on.

And that's when He spoke to me audibly, just like I'm talking to you now. He said He

would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would

teach it to others.

Well, I nearly flew off my chair. I couldn't believe that God would talk to me."

(page-178, since "Nothing cataclysmic...")

Watch this next quote from pg-179.

 

quote:
"The Word is buried today. If there's no one around to teach it, God has to

teach it Himself. You see, I am a product of my times. God knew me before the

foundations of the world, just like He knew you and everyone else. We were all in God's

foreknowledge from the beginnings.

God knew I would believe His Word. And every day I am more and more deeply convinced

of this ministry which teaches people the accuracy and integrity of God's Word.

Without this ministry the world would be in far greater spiritual darkness about His

Word. There would be less light in the world. Where else but in this ministry do you

find the Word of God so living and real? This is truly a time of terrific need."

Doctor nods his head abruptly, as if to punctuate his urgency.

"Well, I couldn't believe that God talked to me right then."

pg-180.

quote:
"Well, on the day God spoke to me, I couldn't believe it. But then I

came to the point by the next day where I said to myself-maybe it's true. So the next

day I talked to God again. I said, 'Lord, if it's really true what you said to me

yesterday, if that was really you talking to me, you've got to give me a sign so that

I can really know, so that I can believe.'

The sky was crystal blue and clear. Not a cloud in sight. It was a beautiful early

autumn day. I said 'If that was really you, and you meant what you said, give me a

sign. Let me see it snow.' My eyes were tightly shut as I prayed. And then I

opened them.

The sky was so white and thick with snow, I couldn't see the tanks at the filling

station on the corner not 75 feet away." Doctor relates this phenomenon in a joyous

voice.

 ...(snip)

 

== == == ==

Setting aside the preposterous story of wierwille hearing an audible voice from God – I’ll tell you why I think he was a bold faced liar. For someone who claimed that his “ministry” taught people "the accuracy and integrity of God’s Word" – the hypocrisy of his leadership, scholarship (cough cough) and lifestyle speaks volumes contrary to his claim.   (definition of hypocrisy : the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.)  :spy:

Let's look at accuracy and integrity:

Accuracy: the quality or state of being correct or precise. wierwille re-defined biblical words to his liking and was often inconsistent in using the principles of interpreting the Bible - you know, all that stuff he plagiarized from Bullinger’s book “How to Enjoy the Bible”. To wierwille "make it your own" means copying someone else's work and putting his name on it.:rolleyes:

Hmmmmm…accuracy…on another thread Is PLAF theopneustos god-breathed?  I talked about wierwille’s method of getting back to the authentic…accurate…precise…original word of God which was given when holy men of God spake...It appears wierwille is somewhat removed from analyzing the actual texts that are still in existence; in the PFAL book, page 128 in chapter 11, “The Translations of the Word of God”, wierwille states:

“Since we have no originals and the oldest manuscripts that we have date back to the fifth century A.D., how can we get back to the authentic prophecy which was given when holy men of God spoke? To get the Word of God out of any translation or out of any version, we have to compare one word with another and one verse with another verse. We have to study the context of all verses.”

wierwille is not comparing Greek manuscripts – instead he is comparing translations or versions of the Bible! That’s like playing the telephone game - the first person states a message and by the time it goes through a whole line of people the message might sound somewhat different from the original.  wierwille is at the end of the line - comparing how one translator interprets a phrase in the Greek to how another translator handles the same phrase. Frankly I don’t have much faith in wierwille’s ability to see beyond his own doctrinal preferences to note differences or similarities in translations since he would come up with goofy phrases that blurred variations like “all without exception” and “all without distinction” – which is the same thing.

Accuracy my a$$ - what a fvcking bull$hit artist  :CUSSING:

 

Integrity: the state of being whole and undivided. wierwille cherry-picked from certain passages to prove a point while ignoring other verses that contradicted his own point of view.. He also operated by a double-standard – teaching folks to obey the moral dictates of the Bible while he himself secretly lived out a lascivious lifestyle. That’s a double-whammy against any supposed “integrity” see Matthew 23 hypocrisy .

hmmmm...integrity...In retrospect, it's obvious to many of us on Grease Spot that wierwille didn't give a rat's a$$ about personal integrity either. Personal Integrity is  being truthful and honest with yourself and others, always striving to make sure your behavior and actions agree with your value system, moral principles, ethics, etc. It generally means staying consistent with personal values and ethical standards, so that when we speak we mean what we say...please...please...PLEASE re-read Skyrider's first post above - especially this part:

"The "wheels of the internet" have exposed wierwille's sexual predation as well.  From testimonies here at GSC, and supported by two or three witnesses (at least), women have come forward to tell their stories of sexual abuse, drugging and rape.  These facts have followed wierwille thru the years from Van Wert back to his ancestral farm, the headquarters of twi.  Fortified by an inner circle of cult loyalists, a doctrine whereby devil spirits would always attack the man of god, and young corps girls who had submitted their innermost secrets and personal history in a tell-all paper that wierwille requested from all corps......AND a rumbling-motel-on-wheels (a motor coach guarded by bodyguards) that stopped at these corps campuses....... wierwille's sexual predation was unleashed. 

Unlike martindale, who was groomed by wierwille to "loosen up his moral and sexual proclivities" ....... wierwille's sexual predation was self-inflicted.  Some have suggested that there was sexual abuse in victor's childhood, but that has not been confirmed (as far as I know). 

Needless to say.......victor paul wierwille has been in the grave for nearly 35 years now and some have, still, not connected the dots on this.  Clearly the scriptures give us warnings on every hand about wolves in sheep's clothing, hirelings, whited sepulchers, deceivers, seducers, etc.......time and again.  Yet, throughout the pfal class wierwille weaves this tapestry that he is shepherding the flock of God, not a hireling......he, wierwille, is calling out the Pharisees of organized religion and setting people free...... and he is opening up the scriptures from the deceivers in denominational churches.  He claims to speak of a message of liberty.......spiritually and sexually.  Wierwille heralds the message of Romans 8......that there is no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus and "who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?"  Love God and live as you fool-please.  How convenient to cherry-pick "spiritual liberty." "

 

personal integrity my a$$...what a fvcking hypocrite :CUSSING:

== == == ==

wierwille's “ministry” was based on lies – here’s just a few: he lied when he plagiarized the works of others and led people to believe it was from his own hard work, he lied about taking Moody Bible Institute correspondence courses (he never did – I have proof here   ) I can only assume he lied about that to give followers the idea that he really studied the biblical languages, at times he even made up his own definitions of Greek words to support his point of view (like in his teaching of the word “with” in John 1:1), and at times he even pressured the research department to bend to his preference for interpreting a passage - like in the wording and imagery in Ephesians 6 as indicative of an athlete rather than what it plainly talks about - a soldier (you can read about that in Penworks’ book  Undertow  .

wierwille plagiarized big time – stealing and lying on a grand scale, that some con artists may have never thought possible. Was wierwille concerned about the accuracy and integrity of “The Word”? I don’t think so. Actions speak much louder than words. How wierwille behaved was the real “sermon” blasting through a Marshall Amp cranked up to eleven.  

Edited by T-Bone
editing and formatting

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22 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

Was wierwille concerned about the accuracy and integrity of “The Word”?

Well, he certainly missed the bit that said, Thou shalt not steal.  Because that's exactly what he founded his "ministry" on - a stolen Bible-teaching class.

But of course, doncha know, the "ten commandments don't apply now" which means that it's perfectly okay to

  • make idols (like TWI, and like its Timothy statues
  • teach wrong things about God, thus taking him and his name in vain
  • work the congregation to sleepwalking ability
  • disrespect parents specifically and family and friends in general
  • cause the deaths and physical injury of hundreds if not thousands of other people (not to mention the mental injury of likely thousands)
  • sleep with someone else's wife 
  • nick other people's goods, money and abilities
  • slander inflicted on many who chose not to believe him or to leave TWI  
  • build his personal empire in emulation of those he perceived to be powerful

I think the only one he agreed with was, Thou Shalt have no other gods before me" - except that he'd replaced himself as God.

Just in case you've forgotten what the 10Cs are, here's a list.  There are actually a jolly sight more commandments, but these are the basics as dictated to Moses.

10 Commandments List

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15 hours ago, WordWolf said:

Thanks for looking up the thread where vw admits he doesnt believe the bible

 

 

 

Edited by Waxit

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On 2/9/2020 at 9:14 AM, skyrider said:

Unlike martindale, who was groomed by wierwille to "loosen up his moral and sexual proclivities" .......

 

"Loosening up" was a doctrine reflecting VPW's preaching that the man of God should have his sexual needs fulfilled so he could do the work of the ministry. That filtered down to me when I was sexually assaulted at HQ in 1979. Yes, it was just a game to my two female assaulters, and had I gone along with this "game' no doubt all would have been well. After I slinked away and froze in my upper bunk...after lights out...the rest of the guys came in the room bit by bit. Of course, lights out in the corps meant.....just that, so they started talking about me, because the two women (the others on the women's side were away on LEAD) had told the guys all about their "game" and how they had enjoyed it. I didn't, contrary to what I was supposed to feel, but the talk centered on how it was good that I got "loosened up". The guys soon went off to sleep, never realizing I was there all the time. It took me 38 years to fully wake up and break my silence, though the process started back in 2008 with the publication of "Losing the Way" It was actually a non Way/cult person who was a child abuse survivor who helped me fully remember in 2017 . The effects of VPW's sexual doctrines had far reaching effects, as many know, but, yes, there were some males affected too....at least one anyway. And of course Martindale sure did "loosen up".

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I am a male who was raped in the Family corps when I was in 7th grade at Rome City. She was a high schooler and was best friends with the high school girls whose parents were on staff. Makes me wonder where she learned it from?! It's also taken me a long time to look back and see all the bs that was going on around me. 

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14 hours ago, Beguiled said:

. Makes me wonder where she learned it from?! It's also taken me a long time to look back and see all the bs that was going on around me. 

I guess at the time of my HQ assault in 1979, which was not  too long after Rome City was acquired, the "loosening up" doctrine had been given to most of the corps, and I suppose staff that weren't corps. In "Undertow" Charlene Edge notes that when she learned that VPW had many women, and that many had been hurt, she notes that she also learned that there were women willing to go along with this doctrine. I figure that included helping to loosen up some of the men. I had not heard specifically about anybody, female or male, as young as you were being hurt, but it doesn't shock me. Yes, when something like that happens, it takes a long time to recognize all we went through, when, as was certainly the case with me, the idea that our leaders could do no wrong was so ingrained in my mind. And, cult or no cult, rape and other sexual assault can do terrible things inside one's mind, even if and while the victim does not consciously recall the event. My non Way (female) friend who helped me was repeatedly raped by her older brother, even while she was filming the TV show in which she was a child actor. In later years, when she reached a slack time in her life, the prior abuse hit her hard. She is doing well now and thus was able to help me, but no one ever "gets over it". Something else...people all around may have a terribly erroneous conception that males cannot be hurt by sex. This attitude was extra cruel in the Way. My main assaulter still thinks it was all just a game, playing around, and I think STILL has no conception how much she hurt me. You would think that people would understand  better the hurting of someone in the 7th grade, with with old Way attitudes still in place in many people, I'm not so sure. I commend you for your courage in speaking up.

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7 hours ago, Lifted Up said:

I guess at the time of my HQ assault in 1979, which was not  too long after Rome City was acquired, the "loosening up" doctrine had been given to most of the corps, and I suppose staff that weren't corps. In "Undertow" Charlene Edge notes that when she learned that VPW had many women, and that many had been hurt, she notes that she also learned that there were women willing to go along with this doctrine. I figure that included helping to loosen up some of the men. I had not heard specifically about anybody, female or male, as young as you were being hurt, but it doesn't shock me. Yes, when something like that happens, it takes a long time to recognize all we went through, when, as was certainly the case with me, the idea that our leaders could do no wrong was so ingrained in my mind. And, cult or no cult, rape and other sexual assault can do terrible things inside one's mind, even if and while the victim does not consciously recall the event. My non Way (female) friend who helped me was repeatedly raped by her older brother, even while she was filming the TV show in which she was a child actor. In later years, when she reached a slack time in her life, the prior abuse hit her hard. She is doing well now and thus was able to help me, but no one ever "gets over it". Something else...people all around may have a terribly erroneous conception that males cannot be hurt by sex. This attitude was extra cruel in the Way. My main assaulter still thinks it was all just a game, playing around, and I think STILL has no conception how much she hurt me. You would think that people would understand  better the hurting of someone in the 7th grade, with with old Way attitudes still in place in many people, I'm not so sure. I commend you for your courage in speaking up.

It may just be a technicality, but doctrines are written down. Practices, which I believe more fairly characterizes the situation with "loosening up" aren't necessarily documented as official beliefs. It probably would have been eradicated at some point well before the actual litigation if it had been a doctrine.

That said, I don't discount your experience in any way, brother.

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In contemporary US society (and others?), there's double standards about men and women.  One is that women can't rape. Another is that men can't be raped, especially by a woman, and if he was, it wasn't a crime even if it was non-consensual, or that a guy can't refuse to consent. or some similar nonsense.  It's in the same barrel of drivel as saying that a woman who is sexually active with a lot of men is to be scorned but a man who is sexually active with a lot of women is to be congratulated. 

In twi, people on the inside were taught to be callous and not care about others.  That came from modelling behavior after vpw, who viewed people as THINGS and was probably a sociopath.   So, copying the predatory behavior of a psychopath made for unhealthy, exploitative practices in twi.  I don't know if this is news to anyone anymore.

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Modeling your lifestyle behavior after VPW is like seeking dietary advise from Jeffry Dahmer.

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15 hours ago, Rocky said:

It may just be a technicality, but doctrines are written down. Practices, which I believe more fairly characterizes the situation with "loosening up" aren't necessarily documented as official beliefs. It probably would have been eradicated at some point well before the actual litigation if it had been a doctrine.

That said, I don't discount your experience in any way, brother.

Oh, no argument. Of course it wasn't written down as official, which would be admitting to the actual practice. No more than my friend's brother would admit to what he thought was his right to abuse her. And no more than VPW would officially admit to what he thought was his right to rape and/or assault so many women. But verbally he sure promoted the idea of Way leaders being entitled to have their sexual needs met. And for many, even some women, there was a duty and even willingness to act according to what our MOGFOT said and did. I was not immune to that idea of course, in many ways discarding my own personal values to obeying what I thought was God's will as spoken by our leader. But that assault was so strongly against my values that I froze in a very confusedand ashamed state, until the fear of an even greater shame prompted me to escape to my bunk on the men's side of the trailer and freeze there. As it turned out, the shame was enhanced again when some of the others arrived in the dark, not knowing I was there in my upper bunk, and unknowingly revealed to me all that the two women had told them about their "playing around", and, yes, they specifically used the words "loosened up" about me. I could give even more details. BTW, as a side factor, IMO we in many ways were treated as children in the corps, even though we were supposed to be adult leaders. That is why my non Way friend, who helped me break my silence, knew to suggest a book written (by Mike Lew)  for male child abuse survivors, despite knowing my assault happened as an adult. But she co-founded a national organization to fight child abuse and knows a lot on the subject. Oh yeah, I wil give one more detail here; the two women who assaulted me were alone on their side; as most or all of the others were away on LEAD at the time. Again, you are right, loosening up was not official doctrine (maybe effective doctrine from the practrive) as that would have been admitting to, among other things,  VPW's abuse and promotion thereof among his followers.

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On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 9:54 AM, Lifted Up said:

I guess at the time of my HQ assault in 1979, which was not  too long after Rome City was acquired, the "loosening up" doctrine had been given to most of the corps, and I suppose staff that weren't corps. In "Undertow" Charlene Edge notes that when she learned that VPW had many women, and that many had been hurt, she notes that she also learned that there were women willing to go along with this doctrine. I figure that included helping to loosen up some of the men. I had not heard specifically about anybody, female or male, as young as you were being hurt, but it doesn't shock me.

............

 

3 hours ago, Lifted Up said:

Oh, no argument. Of course it wasn't written down as official, which would be admitting to the actual practice. No more than my friend's brother would admit to what he thought was his right to abuse her. And no more than VPW would officially admit to what he thought was his right to rape and/or assault so many women. But verbally he sure promoted the idea of Way leaders being entitled to have their sexual needs met. And for many, even some women, there was a duty and even willingness to act according to what our MOGFOT said and did. I was not immune to that idea of course, in many ways discarding my own personal values to obeying what I thought was God's will as spoken by our leader.

.............

 

Lifted Up............I strongly disagree that wierwille taught this "loosening up" practice openly to Way leaders (corps).

I was in the 9th corps.......worked on staff (1981-1984) and ordained in 1984. 

Not once........ did wierwille teach a "loosening up" to corps men or the clergy.  Zilch.  Nada.

You make it sound like wierwille taught this sexual practice OPENLY to the corps.....men and women.  I disagree.  Wierwille did not promote this sexual idea OPENLY......otherwise, this "doctrine" would have spread like wildfire and corps-romping between the sheets nightly on campus.  If that were the case.......there'd have been corps women packing their suitcases and leaving in droves.  C'mon man.  Let's be real.

Certainly......wierwille taught martindale this "loosening up" practice.  Martindale admitted wierwille taught him this practice.  Other men in wierwille's inner circle would have known, right?........Don, Howard, Johnnie, Geer, JAL, and some Region guys?  Also, there were some willing, seductive females [early corps women who sided up to wierwille and its perks of favoritism] that knew about this practice.......and "groomed" other women who were thereby summoned to wierwille's motor coach.  Or, martindale's motor coach.  Or, Cabin 12 at Camp Gunnison.

The Secret Agenda Society........read this link.

This stuff was SECRET........the "lockbox" stuff.  What did this lockbox contain?  Wierwille never fully explained it.....but referred to things/information between two individuals that were not to be revealed.  Confidential stuff.  Or, counseling secrets of past sins that were revealed (like a confessional or something??).  How many of us youth had things in our past that we wanted to forget or unload.....and move forward?  Years before twi.  Drugs, sex, crime.  In my youth and naivete......I thought this "lockbox stuff" was not immoral or sexual situations presently happening with top Way leaders and females in wierwille's stable.  This practice was secretive.......only known to "those who could spiritually handle it."  Remember?

Sure, it was known that some WOWs were having sex and a pregnancy got them thrown off the WOW field.  Or, an abortion for some.  In 1981 and 1982......WOW Training had men like Finnegan take the stage and tell the young men to "keep it in their pants."  No obscurity there!!

Looking back......I remember hearing about Martindale's body man shirking his wife for another corps staffer at hq.  They left twi shortly after and never saw them again.  That kind of thing happened several times. 

Yes.....I would admit that wierwille's Christian Family and Sex class (1975) was filled with some innuendos, slang and lack of strong boundaries.  Nor did wierwille teach on the sin of adultery.  He certainly taught aspects of sexual union in the bond of marriage, but left young unmarried adults with the impression that the Scriptures did not give solid boundaries or answers on premarital sex.

So, Lifted Up.........unless you can give me more specifics, I refute your implications that this was taught openly in corps training.

 

Edited by skyrider

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skyrider?

Lifted Up  did NOT use the word "openly"  in his post.   On this page, that word only appears (so far) in your response (and will appear in this post when I post it.)

He did say "MOST"  of the corps, and you can object to that and discuss percentages, but SOME of the corps were NOT taught this and some WERE,  so "all"  and "none"  would not be correct to use.   

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The lockbox concept itself was abusive.  Sure, some things should be kept confidential, covered over, not bandied about openly.  It's right to be discreet, if something has been told in confidence.  And sometimes, it's right to break the confidence, if keeping it may cause harm to others. 

But many, most, things should be open, should be able to be discussed. 

VPW introduced this idea of "lockbox" even between spouses, not so that men could hide secrets from wives, or vice versa, but so that he himself, VPW, could hide his assaults on women and say that it was "lockbox" between him and another man's wife, that the other man didn't need to know about.  And that - is evil.

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After so many shocking revelations of sexual assaults in church settings - priests assaulting choirboys, female congregation members, and such like - well.  When news of such assaults really started to come forth a decade or more ago, I recall thinking, "Wow, that's dreadful, it would never happen in TWI, such a Godly organisation, it would be stamped on immediately and the perpetrators thrown out."  (You have to remember, Martindale's homo purges had taken place while I was in rez.)  Ho ho, what a blind fool I was!  I had no idea that sexual assault started at the top in TWI and had been going on since the beginning.

At least in the UK, all churches, schools, etc now have Safeguarding policies and those in positions of responsibility or influence over or contact with any vulnerable members of the group (congregation, scholars, etc) are subject to criminal records clearance - this is not just whether they have a criminal conviction, but also includes whether there have been serious suspicions about someone but insufficient evidence to support a criminal conviction.  Churches are combing old records to see if there are historical records that have been swept under the carpet.  This is very good for both church/school leadership PoV and also for the vulnerable groups so protected.

Certainly in the Family Corps, all leadership there would be vetted now.  Not at HQ particularly, except for those involved with children's groups.  I wonder if TWI does have a Safeguarding policy - and if so, how effective it really is.

But even so, I don't know that that would protect adult females, who are supposed to be able to make decisions for themselves.  Unfortunately the adult women were made vulnerable by faulty teaching and much other abuse.  And of course, no women managed to report it to police or even, effectively, to any leader in TWI.

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33 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

skyrider?

Lifted Up  did NOT use the word "openly"  in his post.   On this page, that word only appears (so far) in your response (and will appear in this post when I post it.)

He did say "MOST"  of the corps, and you can object to that and discuss percentages, but SOME of the corps were NOT taught this and some WERE,  so "all"  and "none"  would not be correct to use.   

 

Okay......you're right.  I object to the percentages.

Let's say from corps 1 thru corps 11 (who graduated in 1983)..........adds up to nearly 2,000.

Add family corps 1 thru 7..................maybe, 700.

That's 2,700 corps grads.   So, of those 2,700 corps..........what is MOST?    70%?   75%?   80%?

If we use 75% to mean MOST........that means OVER 2,000 corps. 

And, if just men were taught to "loosen up".......is Lifted Up inferring that 1,000 corps men were taught this?

The implication of this on a percentage scale of MOST..........is ridiculous.

 

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22 minutes ago, skyrider said:

 

Okay......you're right.  I object to the percentages.

Let's say from corps 1 thru corps 11 (who graduated in 1983)..........adds up to nearly 2,000.

Add family corps 1 thru 7..................maybe, 700.

That's 2,700 corps grads.   So, of those 2,700 corps..........what is MOST?    70%?   75%?   80%?

If we use 75% to mean MOST........that means OVER 2,000 corps. 

And, if just men were taught to "loosen up".......is Lifted Up inferring that 1,000 corps men were taught this?

The implication of this on a percentage scale of MOST..........is ridiculous.

 

I get your point, and I don't disagree. But I'm not entirely comfortable with harshly confronting anyone's personal story/experience either.

 

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1 minute ago, Rocky said:

I get your point, and I don't disagree. But I'm not entirely comfortable with harshly confronting anyone's personal story/experience either.

 

 

You're right, Rocky......I should have added a clarifying point in my post.

His personal story is his alone.  No disagreement there.

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Just look at the numbers in each corps......(not exact numbers)

Not including the Family Corps.........

1st corps....................9

2nd corps..................25

3rd corps...................35

4th corps...................55

5th corps...................75

6th corps...................310

7th corps...................325

8th corps...................285

9th corps...................320

10th corps.................320

11th corps.................330

When the 6th corps graduated in 1978, wierwille was 60 years old.  Twi needed the Emporia Campus......because the 6th corps applications exploded from the 5th corps.  With these numbers swelling the ranks, twi scrambled to stay ahead of the numbers, the building/renovation projects and the corps curriculum.

Wierwille rarely met with individuals one-on-one......especially men.  Unless they were top-loyal suck-ups.  Wierwille publically admitted it.  He didn't have time to meet with individuals or small groups.  Therefore, nearly every meeting wierwille did on campus was with the whole group.  He was NOT meeting with small groups of men and encouraging them to "loosen up sexually." 

Back at hq......I did hear that wierwille would meet with a small group of men in the "motorcycle shed" for hang-out time, or beers.  Whatever.  That shed where wierwille hung that poster from a CFS class that had two fleas fornicating and the caption read........FLEA FORNICATION.

 

 

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Lifted, I was in the 6th Family Corps, 1979-80. Husband and I only did the one in-res year, by choice. Within a couple of years after that, we were out. I want to say how sorry I am that you were assaulted and that we were not aware about how much terrible stuff like that was going on. Had I known, we would have been out that much sooner, I suppose, because I would have said something.

That year, I did quietly speak up to the children's fellowship leader over how I saw a mother hit her child repeatedly with a spoon while she reviewed her son's homework. So, while I didn't have the guts back then to stand up in a meeting and blast everybody, I did at least have the guts to say something. But while Wierwille was busy trying to show us how we didn't have a lot of spiritual understanding, we were missing the very real abuse of power and lack of pastoral care right in front of our noses, and for that I am very sorry.

I will say that, at least in that Family Corps, there was no wide-spread knowledge about the sexual nonsense going on. I certainly didn't know, and my exhusband was shocked when he heard about it. And I think I know why. Many Family Corps people were older than Wierwille's "keeds" at Emporia, and he was desperate for the admiration and money that could come from the professional world. Moreover, he knew what he was doing was wrong, justifications notwithstanding. More mature adults wouldn't have put up with it.This was lockbox stuff, not because others couldn't "handle it" as he said, but because he knew it was wrong and it would have ended his whole organization, had it gotten out.

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