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chockfull
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All cults need an Origen story.  This is one where there is an explanation of how traditional paths failed the cult originator and now the true path and true believers and true leaders and true household are in the new cult.

Joseph Smith had the Conversations with the angel Moroni who gave him tablets.  Now the apostles are the old curmudgeons who won’t let women have positions of authority.

scientology had hubbards discoveries and elaborate scheme including auditing classes a path to enlightenment and a sea org.

The Way has VPW and the snowstorm on some gas pumps.  This is why no current research is necessary.  This is the major premise behind why they think Christians should exclusively accept their truth rather than interacting with the rest of the body of Christ as mainstream Christian organizations do.

If you accept the Origen story as genuine it is the first step on a path to accepting a false alternate identity.

Mormons ask you to pray on the Joseph Smith story whether to accept as true or not.  If accepted leads to bondage.

The hierarchical Pharisees of the Way are not different.  Accepting Wierwilles  Origen story they now are fully salted to whitewashing its image.

Accepting a major premise leads to accepting the conclusion.

 

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Sorry no message with a typo that turned out to be an alternate spelling.  And yes the examples are widespread.  But for me I had to accept an over hyped origin story that somehow VP and the Way had an understanding of the scripture that other Christians didn't have for whatever reason.

They don't.  VP did a little research work.  Others did more of it for him as chronicled by Charlenes book.  He was a lecherous plagiarist that founded a cult.  People are still buying in to the gas pumps story though.

They do not even have a Biblical research department because of this.  They are no longer actively seeking to improve their Biblical knowledge, understanding, or application as they feel they already have the truth.  This is a direct quote.  There is a reason for the stagnation.

YMMV

This device has a stupid autocorrect that doesn't work.  Also after a short period posts are no longer editable so impossible to correct spelling...

Edited by chockfull
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37 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Anything to add to the topic besides spell correction guys or is this all we got?

VPW sacrificed an eye filming PFAL . . . he labored so intensely body parts just fell out . . . little cleaner than Origen.

 

Rome was founded by a guy raised by wolves.  Descendant of Troy.

Coca-Cola keeps its recipe in a vault.

Batman's parents were killed in an alley in front of him.

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The NPD feeds on the image projected back to them by others.  

VPW's choices caused his eye to fall out, contradicting his previous statements.  This would instigate deep feelings of shame, self-hatred even.  So he or his flying  monkey's comes up with a story.  Boom.  Problem solved.  Carry on.

VPW knew he wasn't as good as others.  His envy drove him to plagiarize.   Copying isn't consistent with his false sense of self so he confabulates seeing snow on the gas pumps.  Everything is all part of God's plan now.  Feelings of happiness and joy follow.

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On 9/27/2021 at 7:16 PM, chockfull said:

. . .

If you accept the Origen story as genuine it is the first step on a path to accepting a false alternate identity.

. . .

 

Thou shalt not surely die?   Your eyes will be opened . . . one might fall out, Odin did just fine with the other.  Lance Armstrong, not so much.

 

Whose identity?  Cult founder or his loyal subjects?  Are they not tied together?

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7 hours ago, Rocky said:

That's all I have. Was I supposed to pick up on anything else? :confused:

Not really.

Did your first attraction to the Way include being attracted to the depth of scripture research and the Dr who taught the Word like it hasn’t been known since the first century?

why did we so easily accept isolation from the rest of the body of Christ?

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11 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

VPW sacrificed an eye filming PFAL . . . he labored so intensely body parts just fell out . . . little cleaner than Origen.

 

Rome was founded by a guy raised by wolves.  Descendant of Troy.

Coca-Cola keeps its recipe in a vault.

Batman's parents were killed in an alley in front of him.

Lol Bol.  It sounds like there is a new superhero waiting in the wings :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, chockfull said:

Did your first attraction to the Way include being attracted to the depth of scripture research and the Dr who taught the Word like it hasn’t been known since the first century?

My first attraction to The Way included a cute brunette with a warm smile and a soothing voice. But, I digress.....

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2 hours ago, chockfull said:

Not really.

Did your first attraction to the Way include being attracted to the depth of scripture research and the Dr who taught the Word like it hasn’t been known since the first century?

why did we so easily accept isolation from the rest of the body of Christ?

I was overseas, on an island in the Atlantic Ocean. It wasn't anything about Wierwille. It was the confidence of the new guy in the Air Force who talked about "The Word." Hell, it was 46 years ago. I don't recall the details. It was months before we ran the first PFLAP class I sat through. However, I DO remember one detail of the first ROA I attended, in August 1975. Flies and learning how to kill them by stalking them with a two hand clap.

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6 hours ago, Rocky said:

I was overseas, on an island in the Atlantic Ocean. It wasn't anything about Wierwille. It was the confidence of the new guy in the Air Force who talked about "The Word." Hell, it was 46 years ago. I don't recall the details. It was months before we ran the first PFLAP class I sat through. However, I DO remember one detail of the first ROA I attended, in August 1975. Flies and learning how to kill them by stalking them with a two hand clap.

 

fly-chopsticks_large.jpg

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8 hours ago, chockfull said:

Lol Bol.  It sounds like there is a new superhero waiting in the wings :rolleyes:

No, but it's an origin story.

And a better story about inner conflict than "I don't wanna . . . make it snow"

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17 hours ago, chockfull said:

Not really.

Did your first attraction to the Way include being attracted to the depth of scripture research and the Dr who taught the Word like it hasn’t been known since the first century?

why did we so easily accept isolation from the rest of the body of Christ?

 

16 hours ago, waysider said:

My first attraction to The Way included a cute brunette with a warm smile and a soothing voice. But, I digress.....

 

My “origin story” is similar to Waysider’s – and I should add that meeting an extremely shy and cute blonde named Lisa coincided with me being in a search-mode for something metaphysical that I could sink my teeth into. 


Denise – my friend Steve’s girlfriend - introduced me to Lisa. I think Lisa was the first one to be in TWI within our circle of friends…She was shy and easy-going – we began dating – and in conversations Lisa never badgered me about my beliefs being weird or wrong …she seemed interested anytime I talked about my search - - and best of all – she never sounded like a sales brochure for TWI. What was there not to like about this girl?


Lisa’s tranquil demeanor seemed guileless and with me being in a transcendental search-mode, I had no reservations about checking out the fellowship she went to. It was out on Long Island and the Twig coordinator was Sammy Pr**n – he was a carpet layer by trade (I remember the cool looking patchwork carpet on the floor of his living room, made from the carpet scraps of many installs) - -  and also a talented musician. He blew my mind one night when he played / sang a Blind Faith tune “Can’t Find My Way Home” – but he adapted the lyrics to a Christian theme of coming to God – can’t remember it exactly but it started out with something like this ( and Sammy, if you’re reading this please excuse my bad memory and butchering your adaptation): 


Come boldly to His throne
And leave your pride alone
Don’t be afraid to change
You are the reason He’s been
Waiting all these years
Your heart holds the key

 

That’s about all I can vaguely remember. That fellowship was the perfect introduction for me – I signed up for the PFAL class pretty soon after going to that Twig for a short while…That was a great time of easing into a new frame of mind – life was simple…fun…inspirational back then…but you know how that goes – it’s extremely difficult for TWI to leave well enough alone  :biglaugh:  …so I got more involved – went WOW and later went in the Family corps – and the rest, as they say is misery.  :rolleyes:
 

Edited by T-Bone
edited by blind faith and dumb luck
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7 hours ago, T-Bone said:

My “origin story” is similar to Waysider’s – and I should add that meeting an extremely shy and cute blonde named Lisa coincided with me being in a search-mode for something metaphysical that I could sink my teeth into. 

Come to think of it, while I was in tech school in Biloxi, MS, I also remember longing for a closer relationship with/knowledge of God. I was in that frame of mind. That was in the Fall of 1973. Got stationed overseas in the Spring of 1974. Met the guy from twi on Halloween 1974. He was confident and he promised what I was looking for. He had happened in on a small group meeting (fellowship) in the Base Chapel.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So where I am at with this is I do not believe God talked to VP and told him He would teach VP the Word like it hasn’t been known since the first century.  Nor do I believe the snow on the gas pumps story.

it is either true, or it is a fictional tale akin to Joseph Smiths conversation with an angel.

I believe it to be a fictional tale.  The result of it is not truth it is confusion.  It is not unity but splitting the body of Christ to the point people are in bondage moving in and out of that group.  
 

This leaves the Way 4 as what it is.  A bunch of crustaceans desperately trying to survive with a job resume of greater than a decade in a cult.  Mr chocolicious found out how far that takes you in a real world.  The abused become the abusers and the cycle continues.

And scriptures still point to the futility of putting old wine in new wine skins….

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13 hours ago, chockfull said:

So where I am at with this is I do not believe God talked to VP and told him He would teach VP the Word like it hasn’t been known since the first century.  Nor do I believe the snow on the gas pumps story.

it is either true, or it is a fictional tale akin to Joseph Smiths conversation with an angel.

I believe it to be a fictional tale.  The result of it is not truth it is confusion.  It is not unity but splitting the body of Christ to the point people are in bondage moving in and out of that group.  
 

This leaves the Way 4 as what it is.  A bunch of crustaceans desperately trying to survive with a job resume of greater than a decade in a cult.  Mr chocolicious found out how far that takes you in a real world.  The abused become the abusers and the cycle continues.

And scriptures still point to the futility of putting old wine in new wine skins….

Every now and again, someone still claims that pfal and twi were special. Their reason for this is the claim that vpw was special.  Their reason for this is the 1942 promise.  vpw claimed he received a promise from God Almighty in 1942, and he used this claim to justify thinking of "his" books and classes to akin to the Bible itself.

 

The supposition that pfal was of significant long-term benefit hangs primarily on the alleged "1942 promise." That promise, as stated by vpw, was that God spoke audibly to vpw, and promised that God Almighty would teach vpw God's Word like it hadn't been known since the first century (AD)  if vpw would teach it to others.  vpw supposedly asked God to confirm this by a miraculous snowstorm.

 

All right, how many ways can we show this 1942 promise failed?    We've done it lots of times before, this is mostly compilation.

A) The miraculous snowstorm never happened.

There was NO report of actual snow anywhere near where this allegedly happened.  When it supposedly happened, he didn't even tell his own wife it happened.  Come on, that would have been the first words out of any spouse's mouth that evening.  ("Honey, you'll never believe what happened to me today...")  He never claimed it until decades later.  He couldn't keep the details of the miraculous event straight, even.  When he first began making this claim, he said the sky looked BLACK with all the heavy snow.  This, BTW, isn't what it looks like for even the heaviest snow.  Later-probably because he learned that doesn't happen- he switched to saying the sky was WHITE with snow.  I'm sure details can get lost over time, but if a miraculous event that turns the sky all one color, you'd at least remember the color.

Finally, this wasn't the only time vpw claimed a miraculous snowstorm.  In fact, he did it whenever it was convenient.   When he added special significance to the minister's conference where he met Stiles, vpw claimed that the entire city was snowed in completely. He was unable to get out because planes, trains and buses were all stopped due to heavy snow conditions, a blizzard.  This was a rather big lie, and one that was check-able.  When someone spoke to him about it,  he didn't say "I was there and saw the snow and walked in it, check again", he immediately switched his story to prevent trying to contradict the weather report. He immediately began claiming the snow was an angelic apparition- angels made him see snow that wasn't there, and when he phoned transit places, angels answered the phone and lied to him.  (He would rather have us think angels lied than that he lied.)   In reality, not even a single FLAKE fell from the sky in that city that day, and the temperature didn't reach freezing.    This wasn't the last time vpw made up a convenient snowstorm, even. A poster here once noted that vpw was supposed to visit their area. Instead, he phoned and said that he WANTED to fly there, but he was located at a bad snowstorm and he was told it was unsafe. The poster checked the weather in vpw's area at the time, and there was neither snow nor storms predicted. 

So, the entire snow part was a lie.  Without that, there's no 1942 promise. However, even if it was possible for there to have been a snowstorm (it's not possible), the other problems with his story would be enough to discredit it.

 

There WAS no 1942 promise.  vpw was NEVER some great one. pfal was NEVER some great class nor great study materials.  It was all built up as a con-and not the most secure con, either. It needed lots of outside help to prop it up.

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B)  The alleged promise was a lie.

Supposedly, God Almighty promised He would teach like it hadn't been known since the 1st century AD.  If this were true, there would be a complete disconnect with what was being taught and known elsewhere in 1942 EVERYWHERE and what vpw later taught (because we know he taught others.)   However, even those who idolize vpw agree that the material he taught was already taught by others.  A paper trail can be traced for virtually all the twi material vpw taught.  vpw took Leonard's class, and a few months later, taught 100% of the same material. vpw bought Stiles' book, then typed up a book with the contents- later adding the contents of books by Bullinger to flesh it out more. And so on.  So, either God Almighty lied when giving this promise, someone else claiming to be God lied and vpw couldn't tell the difference between a lying spirit and God Almighty, or vpw lied and nobody promised him at all.

 

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C) The alleged promise was based on ignorance.

twi's system shares a trait with some of the extwi systems- they're Gnostic systems based on secret knowledge.  The twi system-which was vpw's system, set up by him and used by him all the time- was that study of the verses was the key to God (plus the "Law of Believing"),.  So, the more you study the verses, the more "godly" you can become, especially if you study it the twi way.  We've all seen far too many horror stories of twi "masters" who partly memorized vpw/twi materials and were bigger schmucks if anything. Geer spent hours going over vpw's teachings in between drugging women for vpw to rape and preparing to throw himself over vpw as a human shield if anyone tried to shoot him.

But, let's expose the IGNORANCE in the alleged "promise." 

How DID the 1st century Christian church know God's Word?

They knew the Torah/Old Testament.  They knew the SPOKEN word, They knew The Word BY EXPERIENCE AND POWER.  Think about it. They were getting converts left and right while being a disciple was ILLEGAL and punished by imprisonment, murder, or both.   They got LOTS of converts with that going on. No amount of charismatic demagoguery can make up for the risk of being killed or imprisoned. You might get a few disaffected outsiders.  Saul of Tarsus joined them - a former persecutor and murderer of Christians (he didn't put his hand on the knife, but he ordered it done.)   Did the Greeks hear good speeches then run out and conclude that their gods walked among them and prepared to offer blood sacrifices?  They SAW something.  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.  However, provide the extraordinary proof, and the claims stop looking extraordinary-at least in comparison to the proof. 

The 1st century Christians preached-but were known because they had power and could deliver where they spoke.  Lots of people preached and didn't get significant converts.  Theirs was a pragmatic, direct, power-based ministry.  twi was never that. They were study-based, and TALKED ABOUT power lots of times, then considered "Kojacking" a significant witness of "power."    1st century Christians were never centrally-controlled nor organized.  twi bore no resemblance to 1st century Christianity except where twi CLAIMED they did. But all the claims don't mean reality matches a claim.    The 1st century Christians probably didn't have access to the entire New Testament ANYWHERE. All documents had to be hand-copied. With no printing press and no scanners and PDFs, that was a laborious process and few copies circulated for the 1st century AD (certainly relative to now.)

So, twi has NEVER had "The Word as it was known in the 1st Century." because vpw NEVER had "The Word as it was known in the 1st Century." 

vpw might have known that when he phrased the promise he was supposedly given, but he skipped over "Church history".  So, he was likely to make such a mistake where God Almighty would not.

 

vpw made up the alleged 1942 promise. and it's easy to show all the errors.   There was no such promise. There's no real, sensible reason to laud vpw or "his" books.  They don't comprise "revelation."

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Great posts, WordWolf !!!!!!

I will have to save those with all the other posts of yours that have all the salient points of one issue in one place. How convenient! Thanks a bunch!

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Excellent salient points and summary WW.  This makes it even so much more clear.

Without the uniqueness of VPWs story, which was conveniently covered up by removing the book containing its account by Elena Whiteside removed from sale at the bookstore, there is no substantial reason for the Ways classes.  Most of the content was stolen from BG Leonard.  
 

Think about it.  God somehow bypassed the other 10 billion inhabitants of the planet, and chose to personally teach one morally decrepit minister with a narcissism problem.  The mans other contemporaries like Billy Graham and Oral Robert’s whose tent event VPW faked speaking in tongues at were not so lucky to be chosen by God to hold the golden tablets for our generation PFAL.

The current class is not new material.  The video was so outdated of VP it wasn’t relevant so they remade the class by basically re arranging the content.  There is not new or different doctrine introduced.  This re work was done by an athlete with a bachelors degree in business.  
 

Then when that class grew to be a non viable option due to the guy on video being ousted for being a sexual predator just like the first guy, the same material was re taught by three people so it wouldn’t take as long to replace if one of them caved in also.

So tracking the material, it is a Canadian minister (BG Leonard) teaching material that VPW stole without permission.  Then it was reorganized by sexual predator #2 with no academic credentials, then re taught by a committee.  One of the three left over the glaring discrepancy of having a Biblical research ministry with nobody actually doing research and no research department.  So his content was replaced.

From just a basic logical analysis of the classes and content, it is a reasonable path to form a conclusion regarding the history of the content and to reach the idea that it is a group sham as opposed to God delivering original content to a group.  It doesn’t hold up to any scrutiny at all basically.

If there is a conclusion to be drawn it is that the content in the Ways classes are not magic in producing false claims, and are basically a sham orchestrated by people protecting money power and position who know better and definitely know what they are doing with the content.

Protect the $65M in assets amassed by the first predator.

y a

 

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