Well from the details I’ve read you shouldn’t have to worry. The girl plans to only leave the account up and public for a short period of time. Who knows, maybe due to online critics?
Again can you please take your push for whatever your agenda is to your own thread?
I don’t want to do anything with “my story”. Those who know me and love me know it. Others hear parts of it. I really could care less how TED talk says your brain responds to it. And I have zero desire to make “my story” “matter more”.
i mean start a topical part of the forum for “Creative Writing” or “Memoir Writing” or “Journaling” for chrissake!
Thanks for the ideas. Btw, I certainly don't worry about how Jennifer presents her story/essay.
Only once did I wonder if a post of mine had been deleted (can't remember now what it was about), but I found it disappeared along with some others when GSC downloaded that new program.
About the video, you know how twi whitewashed the truth about vp (and is still doing it); you can expect the same to be going on here. Bickle has agreed to the church's terms to stop all ministering in person and on social media but he has many devoted followers in leadership.
This is the man who led that church into an extreme teaching of the song of Solomon being about the bride of Christ and Jesus. All romantic and sexual phrases and verses were how their followers began to relate to Jesus in their words, prayers and songs written by them. His end times teachings are horrendous as well. I came to learn about this guy through the Vineyard church I was attending.
Anyway, I don't believe the truth about the sexual misconduct will ever come to light if the investigation is not a totally independent one. So thanks again to anyone who takes a few minutes to add their name to the petition!
Bickle and IHOP(KC) have become national news. The link is to a Washington Post news story and because I subscribe, the story is NOT behind a paywall. IOW, it's a gift article available to anyone who wants to read it.
Mike Bickle, the founder of an international around-the-clock prayer movement and charismatic minister, apologized Tuesday for past misconduct that caused “pain, confusion, and division in the body of Christ.”
“With a very heavy heart I want to express how deeply grieved I am that my past sins have led to so much pain, confusion, and division in the body of Christ in this hour,” Bickle said in anonlinestatement.
“I sadly admit that 20+ years ago, I sinned by engaging in inappropriate behavior — my moral failures were real,” he wrote.
In late October, former leaders of the Kansas City-based International House of Prayer publiclyaccusedBickle of clergy sexual misconduct, based on allegations from several women about misconduct that allegedly went on for decades.
“The credibility of these allegations is not based on any one experience or any one victim, but on the collective and corroborating testimony of the experiences of several victims,” the former leaders said in their initial allegations. (more)
“There are many misrepresentations of my words and actions in these communications including statements that are out of context, greatly exaggerated, or blatantly false,” Bickle said in his statement. He also said he thought his past misdeeds were “dealt with and under the blood of Jesus.”
Sounds not unlike "anything done in the love of God is okay," including assaulting other men's wives.
I have come close to becoming obsessed with following this guy and IHOPKC - there is soooo much wrong with Bickle's history, his 24/7 prayer room, his teachings and his influence in the religious communities worldwide. What's coming out now about him is nothing new among big time leaders who have been exposed in the past, but it's how it's currently being played out by Bickle and the leaders of IHOP that shows the spiritual manipulation and deception that always go along with this stuff.
Anyway, the best coverage I have found on everything that is happening is on youtube by a young couple. Their podcasts go by the name of Wake up and Win. This is one I listened to today by just the husband who used to be in IHOP and he's talking to the people still in the group that might be thinking about leaving. It's very good.
Along with local counsel, Caleb J. Aponte, I have had the privilege to work with several individuals who have reported being abused and traumatized while being a part of the IHOPKC community. I can assure you that this group wants the full truth to surface with the hope that those who have perpetrated abuse will be exposed and held accountable and that the system which fostered such a harmful environment will be genuinely transformed. Tragically, the actions of IHOPKC and its current leadership seemingly demonstrate a very different agenda.
As many may know, IHOPKC initially engaged a law firm to conduct what it touted as an “independent investigation” in relation to sexual misconduct allegations against Mike Bickle. At no time were any of the reported victims, or those who have publicly advocated on their behalf, ever been consulted by IHOPKC regarding the identity and/or qualifications of the “third-party” investigator nor provided any information regarding the process, protocol, and scope of such an “investigation.” All of it was simply dictated by IHOPKC with the expectation reported victims and witnesses would participate. When it was discovered that the unilaterally selected “third party investigator” was a law firm who has a fiduciary duty to its client (IHOPKC, not the reported victims), it became clear that this was an internal investigation being publicly labeled as “independent.” Shortly thereafter, we learned that IHOPKC reportedly dismissed that law firm and subsequently retained an attorney who is also a congregant of the church to conduct the “independent investigation.” This attorney also has a fiduciary duty to her client (IHOPKC, not the reported victims). I informed this attorney/congregant of IHOPKC that though she seemed like a very pleasant person and capable attorney, she was anything but “independent.” At that point in time, I suggested to her that IHOPKC move forward with a legitimate, qualified, and experienced third-party investigator who is not an attorney. I even offered to provide IHOPKC with some suggestions since I've been working in this field for almost thirty years. I also communicated to this attorney/congregant that it was imperative that IHOPKC expand the scope of any investigation beyond Mike Bickle to include allegations of sexual abuse perpetrated by anyone in leadership and/or on staff at IHOPKC as others have recently reported such allegations. I even suggested a two tier investigative approach where the allegations related to Mr. Bickle would first be investigated followed by investigating allegations related to others in leadership and/or staff. At the time, the attorney/congregant told me that she would pass along that suggestion up the chain. I never heard back from her about it.
In context of the above, I was quite surprised to receive an email on Friday, December 8th from yet another attorney from yet another law firm requesting to interview my client. At no time did they ever reach out to seek input from my client or any other reported victim regarding this process. Once again, they assumed that reported victims would participate in a supposed "independent" process that they had unilaterally determined. It was disheartening to many that we were right back at square one with IHOPKC engaging another law firm to conduct what it defined as an “independent investigation.” Only this time, the law firm is one that proudly touts its representation of defendant organizations (including but not limited to the Catholic Church) in sexual abuse related litigation. The law firmwebsiteproudly mentions such work, including but not limited to, the following statements:
Obtained a complete dismissal of a private high school and an affiliated diocese in an action involving a volunteer coach who sexually assaulted a member of the girls’ softball team. A prompt and thorough investigation by our team allowed the client to assess its liability risks and whether its policies had been followed. The trial court granted motions arguing there was no duty to protect the plaintiff from sexual assaults that were unrelated to any school activity and occurred on private property.
Represented a Roman Catholic diocese in a group settlement of 52 claims and a subsequent group settlement of 32 claims,resulting in per-claimant awards of less than one-third the national average.
Obtained a complete dismissal of all claims against a religious organization in a case involving claims of sexual abuse.
Why would reported victims of sexual abuse and misconduct sit down with an attorney from a firm that represents churches in sexual abuse matters and then boasts about its successes? I have no doubt that this law firm well-represents organizational defendants in sexual abuse litigation. However, it cannot be all things to all people. It cannot represent and defend institutional clients in such cases and then turn around and invite reported sexual abuse victims to meet with its attorneys and to trust them. It simply doesn’t work that way. In an attempt to help the new attorney understand our position, I provided a copy of anarticleI wrote a few years ago about the difference between internal and independent investigations.
Despite the profound concerns raised above regarding the law firm's representation of churches in sexual abuse cases, in a good faith effort to evaluate the attorney's claims that she is "functioning as an independent investigator and nothing more" and is "perfectly capable of reaching unbiased and independent conclusions" I requested a copy of her engagement agreement with IHOP. She responded by writing "As a matter of practice we do not release entire engagement letters to non-parties". Wouldn't the attorneys who represent a Jane Doe be a party? If not, who are the parties? Also, since she is functioning as only an "independent investigator and nothing more", will they agree to waive all attorney-client communications? She then offered to send us a portion of the agreement that she unilaterally has determined demonstrates the independence of the investigation. This response simply confirmed my concerns that IHOPKC is in the driver's seat in a process that they alone have dictated.
The approach IHOPKC is taking is clearly focused on maintaining control and protecting the institution. As one who has been on the front lines of addressing abuse within faith communities for almost 25 years, I can assure you that such an approach is not consistent with best practice standards...nor the standards of Jesus. It is not too late for IHOPKC to change course and begin working with representatives of the reported victims to come up with a process that is genuinely independent and one that ensures that those stepping forward to share their trauma are made to feel comfortable and safe. Until then, it is highly unlikely that reported victims and witnesses will participate in such a fundamentally flawed process.
The approach IHOPKC is taking is clearly focused on maintaining control and protecting the institution.
That was my impression when I first read the WaPo story last night, too.
Frankly, I think it might take time for those IN the IHOPKC cult to realize they need to let the group die a (merciful, at least to the victims) death. Well, at least it doesn't appear they "get it" yet.
That was my impression when I first read the WaPo story last night, too.
Frankly, I think it might take time for those IN the IHOPKC cult to realize they need to let the group die a (merciful, at least to the victims) death. Well, at least it doesn't appear they "get it" yet.
I just now posted the following to the WaPo story comments:
It is entirely right and reasonable for Bickle to confess his sins to the congregation. But it seems most of those involved at this point may be hoping the confession will serve as a turning point to facilitate this particular cult can move on as if nothing happened in the first place.
I disagree with that perspective. The conduct Bickle got away with for years (decades?) is nothing more and nothing less than an indicator that the CULTure of that organization was and has been sick from the get go.
It's time (for those involved) to shut it ALL down completely.
THEN, if those people want to build something to continue whatever may have been good in the group, they need to do some deep and significant soul-searching to figure out how to build a congregation that can keep its followers safe from predation and predators LIKE (and if they do NOT change) Bickle. And there WILL be more if they ignore the danger and move on as is.
I noticed this Bickle group likes using catchy phrases, like the 24/7 Prayer Room.
In 2017, I presented a paper at an International Cultic Studies Association conference about breaking the power of cult symbols (and catchy phrases), using TWI as an example.
Attached is the PDF of that paper for your enjoyment.
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc. and Happy New Year!
I just now posted the following to the WaPo story comments:
It is entirely right and reasonable for Bickle to confess his sins to the congregation. But it seems most of those involved at this point may be hoping the confession will serve as a turning point to facilitate this particular cult can move on as if nothing happened in the first place.
I disagree with that perspective. The conduct Bickle got away with for years (decades?) is nothing more and nothing less than an indicator that the CULTure of that organization was and has been sick from the get go.
It's time (for those involved) to shut it ALL down completely.
THEN, if those people want to build something to continue whatever may have been good in the group, they need to do some deep and significant soul-searching to figure out how to build a congregation that can keep its followers safe from predation and predators LIKE (and if they do NOT change) Bickle. And there WILL be more if they ignore the danger and move on as is.
Oh, if that would only be the case. As you probably know by now, IHOPKC has formally and permanently separated themselves from Bickle "due to a level of confirmed 'inappropriate behavior.'” There have been quite a few offshoots of IHOPKC in the past few years and like with twi, they basically continue to teach the same false doctrine as its founder - Mike Bickle. I'm sure more will continue to spring up now.
So much of what is going on with these groups is based on the fast-growing Charismatic movement which is extremely heavy on members receiving and sharing their "personal prophecies, dreams and visions" from God. Apparently, it has become the "norm" for people to visit heaven and see Jesus to receive a prophecy (which outdoes vp's snow story anytime). IHOPKC itself was built on personal prophecies Bickle received from other "prophets" as well as his own false prophecies, dreams and visions (which are so insane if you care to google about them).
This charismatic movement, of which the Vineyard Church was influential in propagating in the early 80's, believe that scripture alone is not enough. In their desire to "feel and experience" spiritual giftings, get extra knowledge from God (Gnosticism) and become "intimate with Jesus" (bridal paradigm), they are falling for "prophetic words" that obviously come either from people's own imaginations or from spiritual sources other than God. The kicker is that this movement (including Bickle) publicly say the majority of prophecies are false or wrongly interpreted (80%) which is okay because it's the 20% that are "correct" that is important.
Exposing Mike Bickle, however, is bringing more awareness to all of this craziness and hopefully will slow down the growth in the charismatic movement. Unfortunately, like twi, those involved in IHOPKC have been warned to stay off social media.
Along with local counsel, Caleb J. Aponte, I have had the privilege to work with several individuals who have reported being abused and traumatized while being a part of the IHOPKC community. I can assure you that this group wants the full truth to surface with the hope that those who have perpetrated abuse will be exposed and held accountable and that the system which fostered such a harmful environment will be genuinely transformed. Tragically, the actions of IHOPKC and its current leadership seemingly demonstrate a very different agenda.
As many may know, IHOPKC initially engaged a law firm to conduct what it touted as an “independent investigation” in relation to sexual misconduct allegations against Mike Bickle. At no time were any of the reported victims, or those who have publicly advocated on their behalf, ever been consulted by IHOPKC regarding the identity and/or qualifications of the “third-party” investigator nor provided any information regarding the process, protocol, and scope of such an “investigation.” All of it was simply dictated by IHOPKC with the expectation reported victims and witnesses would participate. When it was discovered that the unilaterally selected “third party investigator” was a law firm who has a fiduciary duty to its client (IHOPKC, not the reported victims), it became clear that this was an internal investigation being publicly labeled as “independent.” Shortly thereafter, we learned that IHOPKC reportedly dismissed that law firm and subsequently retained an attorney who is also a congregant of the church to conduct the “independent investigation.” This attorney also has a fiduciary duty to her client (IHOPKC, not the reported victims). I informed this attorney/congregant of IHOPKC that though she seemed like a very pleasant person and capable attorney, she was anything but “independent.” At that point in time, I suggested to her that IHOPKC move forward with a legitimate, qualified, and experienced third-party investigator who is not an attorney. I even offered to provide IHOPKC with some suggestions since I've been working in this field for almost thirty years. I also communicated to this attorney/congregant that it was imperative that IHOPKC expand the scope of any investigation beyond Mike Bickle to include allegations of sexual abuse perpetrated by anyone in leadership and/or on staff at IHOPKC as others have recently reported such allegations. I even suggested a two tier investigative approach where the allegations related to Mr. Bickle would first be investigated followed by investigating allegations related to others in leadership and/or staff. At the time, the attorney/congregant told me that she would pass along that suggestion up the chain. I never heard back from her about it.
In context of the above, I was quite surprised to receive an email on Friday, December 8th from yet another attorney from yet another law firm requesting to interview my client. At no time did they ever reach out to seek input from my client or any other reported victim regarding this process. Once again, they assumed that reported victims would participate in a supposed "independent" process that they had unilaterally determined. It was disheartening to many that we were right back at square one with IHOPKC engaging another law firm to conduct what it defined as an “independent investigation.” Only this time, the law firm is one that proudly touts its representation of defendant organizations (including but not limited to the Catholic Church) in sexual abuse related litigation. The law firmwebsiteproudly mentions such work, including but not limited to, the following statements:
Obtained a complete dismissal of a private high school and an affiliated diocese in an action involving a volunteer coach who sexually assaulted a member of the girls’ softball team. A prompt and thorough investigation by our team allowed the client to assess its liability risks and whether its policies had been followed. The trial court granted motions arguing there was no duty to protect the plaintiff from sexual assaults that were unrelated to any school activity and occurred on private property.
Represented a Roman Catholic diocese in a group settlement of 52 claims and a subsequent group settlement of 32 claims,resulting in per-claimant awards of less than one-third the national average.
Obtained a complete dismissal of all claims against a religious organization in a case involving claims of sexual abuse.
Why would reported victims of sexual abuse and misconduct sit down with an attorney from a firm that represents churches in sexual abuse matters and then boasts about its successes? I have no doubt that this law firm well-represents organizational defendants in sexual abuse litigation. However, it cannot be all things to all people. It cannot represent and defend institutional clients in such cases and then turn around and invite reported sexual abuse victims to meet with its attorneys and to trust them. It simply doesn’t work that way. In an attempt to help the new attorney understand our position, I provided a copy of anarticleI wrote a few years ago about the difference between internal and independent investigations.
Despite the profound concerns raised above regarding the law firm's representation of churches in sexual abuse cases, in a good faith effort to evaluate the attorney's claims that she is "functioning as an independent investigator and nothing more" and is "perfectly capable of reaching unbiased and independent conclusions" I requested a copy of her engagement agreement with IHOP. She responded by writing "As a matter of practice we do not release entire engagement letters to non-parties". Wouldn't the attorneys who represent a Jane Doe be a party? If not, who are the parties? Also, since she is functioning as only an "independent investigator and nothing more", will they agree to waive all attorney-client communications? She then offered to send us a portion of the agreement that she unilaterally has determined demonstrates the independence of the investigation. This response simply confirmed my concerns that IHOPKC is in the driver's seat in a process that they alone have dictated.
The approach IHOPKC is taking is clearly focused on maintaining control and protecting the institution. As one who has been on the front lines of addressing abuse within faith communities for almost 25 years, I can assure you that such an approach is not consistent with best practice standards...nor the standards of Jesus. It is not too late for IHOPKC to change course and begin working with representatives of the reported victims to come up with a process that is genuinely independent and one that ensures that those stepping forward to share their trauma are made to feel comfortable and safe. Until then, it is highly unlikely that reported victims and witnesses will participate in such a fundamentally flawed process.
December 16, 2023
Boz Tchividjian, Esq.
Caleb J. Aponte, Esq.
In the main Jane Doe's interview with The Roys Report, she said one of the reasons she came forward is because she recently became aware of how Bill Cosby had drugged his victim(s). She then realized that Bickle must have done that to her as well. Before this, she could not understand why one night she woke up alone in a hotel room and could not remember how she got there. This occurred after having dinner with Bickle in a restaurant and having a couple of drinks. Apparently, there were other occasions like this. It seems Bickle and VP have a lot in common.
Thankfully, the Advocate Group (AG) which includes the two named above, are looking out for the Jane Doe's who come forward. Both Bickle and IHOPKC were criticizing them for not doing Matthew 18:15-17 which requires them to first meet with Bickle privately to confront him. Without doing so, according to them, they cannot move forward to investigate their claims. That's part of the system where abusers can get away with their abuses. As the AG has made known, a victim of abuse, especially by a person who has had spiritual authority over them, should never be expected to be alone with that person again for any reason or at any time. This statement also offsets how on a number of occasions, the top leaders have told any further victims to contact them or the investigator heading the "independent" investigation.
Finally, it is the AG that is making it known that all 3 law firms IHOPKC has hired to do the investigation have not been independent which is why the Jane Doe's will not consent to being interviewed by them. These women have been labelled false accusers on social media because of their refusal to cooperate with these law firms.
Exposing Mike Bickle, however, is bringing more awareness to all of this craziness and hopefully will slow down the growth in the charismatic movement. Unfortunately, like twi, those involved in IHOPKC have been warned to stay off social media.
I really despise these euphemisms, but charlatans and criminals wouldn’t leave the house without them.
The media seems to have normalized this linguistic apologetic by referring to rape as sexual assault, which is easier on the conscience, I guess. Hearing or reading about rape is supposed to make people uncomfortable. Euphemisms are anesthetic.
I really despise these euphemisms, but charlatans and criminals wouldn’t leave the house without them.
The media seems to have normalized this linguistic apologetic by referring to rape as sexual assault, which is easier on the conscience, I guess. Hearing or reading about rape is supposed to make people uncomfortable. Euphemisms are anesthetic.
I just looked it up - didn't know this before. I don't know what it is in the US.
"Changes to the Criminal Code
In 1983, changes were made to the Criminal Code. There was no longer a listed offence of rape. The new crime of sexual assault was made. The changes to the laws of rape came as a result of how infrequently victims of rape would come forward to report what had been done to them. Many deep-rooted beliefs made women who were the victims of rape felt ashamed of their experiences. The laws were changed so that women who had been raped would be encouraged to come forward with their stories. The laws were also changed so as to shift the focus toward the violent nature of rape and away from the sexual aspects of it. There was also a widespread belief in there being a connection between someone not being a virgin and their believability as a witness. The laws were changed to address that as well.
Sexual Assault (SA)
The changes resulted in three new criminal offences. These were sexual assault (section 271 of the Criminal Code) sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party, or causing bodily harm (section 272 of the Criminal Code), and aggravated sexual assault (section 273 of the Criminal Code). The most basic of these is sexual assault"
I really despise these euphemisms, but charlatans and criminals wouldn’t leave the house without them.
The media seems to have normalized this linguistic apologetic by referring to rape as sexual assault, which is easier on the conscience, I guess. Hearing or reading about rape is supposed to make people uncomfortable. Euphemisms are anesthetic.
In 1983, changes were made to the Criminal Code. There was no longer a listed offence of rape. The new crime of sexual assault was made. The changes to the laws of rape came as a result of how infrequently victims of rape would come forward to report what had been done to them.
So has there been any follow-up on this? Are more women coming forward to report sexual assault (inc rape)? And if so, why?
Just because the law has changed and the name of the offence has changed doesn't mean that the offence doesn't happen. Nor does it mean that more offences are happening.
Any increase in the offences reported may simply be due to more awareness and more support being available to victims, and to victims nowadays being less willing to keep quiet than they were 40 years ago.
In the US, sexual assaults (i.e. rapes, when they are prosecuted), are generally prosecuted by the various states. In Arizona, the criminal code is A.R.S. Title 13. Chapter 14 of Title 13 is Sexual Offenses. There are 29 sections in Chapter 14, covering a wide range of offenses. Section 1406 specifies what constitutes (provides the definition of) sexual assault.
C. For the purposes of this section, "sexual offense" means any of the following:
1. Sexual abuse in violation of section 13-1404.
2. Sexual conduct with a minor in violation of section 13-1405.
3. Sexual assault in violation of section 13-1406. [A. A person commits sexual assault by intentionally or knowingly engaging in sexual intercourse or oral sexual contact with any person without consent of such person.]
4. Sexual assault of a spouse if the offense was committed before the effective date of this amendment to this section.
5. Molestation of a child in violation of section 13-1410.
6. Continuous sexual abuse of a child in violation of section 13-1417.
7. Sexual misconduct by a behavioral health professional in violation of section 13-1418.
8. Commercial sexual exploitation of a minor in violation of section 13-3552.
9. Sexual exploitation of a minor in violation of section 13-3553.
I am confident the Arizona Legislature omitted the word rape in favor of more specifics about conduct which includes rape rather than to treat the offense euphemismistically. Obviously, "inappropriate behavior (or conduct) IS a euphemism. But this is a matter of journalistic style, not legal terminology. I mention this not to minimize the significance but to be specific about the origin of the annoyance.
It’s a peculiar stylistic choice. I can appreciate the spectrum of crimes captured by “sexual assault.” I can see a potential utility there, but often the stylistic choice misleads and minimizes.
In Israel on October 7, many (dozens? hundreds?) of girls and women were raped by Islamic jihadists. Some were raped to death. Read that again. Raped. To. Death!
But many journalists reported "sexual assault" on Israeli girls and women.
There are contexts where this stylistic choice moves beyond frustratingly ambiguous to dishonest vulgarity. We need to make better choices.
Which choices are you suggesting WE (including you) have the right to change?
Lawmaking bodies made specific verbal choices in writing laws.
The journalistic style issues have to do, as I understand it, with news gathering/writing enterprises choosing purposely vague wording, perhaps to sound euphemistic, so they can continue to sell newspapers without offending tender sensibilities.
When a news enterprise dares use more abrupt terminology and/or rhetoric, it probably runs increasing risk of sounding like a publication with an ax to grind. Not that doing so would necessarily be a bad thing.
What other choices might be involved that I haven't understood thus far?
The journalistic style issues have to do, as I understand it, with news gathering/writing enterprises choosing purposely vague wording, perhaps to sound euphemistic, so they can continue to sell newspapers without offending tender sensibilities.
We have the right to choose to pay attention to this. Just look at it. See it for all that it explicitly and implicitly means.
Whose brittle ears are we choosing to protect from offense by reporting "sexual assault" instead of rape for the glory of Allah?
Whose brittle ears are we choosing to protect from offense by reporting "sexual assault" instead of rape for the glory of Allah?
Again, the question becomes who is WE. News enterprises, IMO, are not the readers thereof.
When it comes to choice and choosing, I believe it's most important for US (us) to be mindful of that which we have within our control and choose wisely. When we try to choose for someone or something of which we have NO control or direct influence, we choose endless frustration and promote helplessness.
Becoming mindful of what others (i.e. a news enterprise) choose that I/WE cannot control or influence, the inability to control or influence also breeds apathy.
WE do need to choose wisely. But worrying about the euphemistic reporting about rape and other sexual offenses isn't necessarily productive... unless, you have a strong voice in the world/community and can make cogent arguments that convince your readers. Or any other human expression (ART) that moves the emotions of members of that community.
I encourage your thoughts and actions along those lines.
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Nathan_Jr
I really despise these euphemisms, but charlatans and criminals wouldn’t leave the house without them. The media seems to have normalized this linguistic apologetic by referring to rape as sexual
Stayed Too Long
Since being so totally taken in and deceived by VPW and TWI I now find myself being very critical of things that people say. When an ad appears on TV my immediate reaction is what is the hook they are
penworks
I admire Jennifer's bravery in sharing her traumatic experiences and related information on Substack. Here's my blog today that includes a link to her post: Speaking of "Way" Stories ... | C
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Rocky
Thanks for the ideas.
Btw, I certainly don't worry about how Jennifer presents her story/essay.
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Rocky
Bickle and IHOP(KC) have become national news. The link is to a Washington Post news story and because I subscribe, the story is NOT behind a paywall. IOW, it's a gift article available to anyone who wants to read it.
Mike Bickle, the founder of an international around-the-clock prayer movement and charismatic minister, apologized Tuesday for past misconduct that caused “pain, confusion, and division in the body of Christ.”
“With a very heavy heart I want to express how deeply grieved I am that my past sins have led to so much pain, confusion, and division in the body of Christ in this hour,” Bickle said in an online statement.
“I sadly admit that 20+ years ago, I sinned by engaging in inappropriate behavior — my moral failures were real,” he wrote.
In late October, former leaders of the Kansas City-based International House of Prayer publicly accused Bickle of clergy sexual misconduct, based on allegations from several women about misconduct that allegedly went on for decades.
“The credibility of these allegations is not based on any one experience or any one victim, but on the collective and corroborating testimony of the experiences of several victims,” the former leaders said in their initial allegations. (more)
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Nathan_Jr
Good. F this guy and all charlatans like him.
Allegations of abuse spanning DECADES from several credible women. Wow.
So much sorrow for merely “inappropriate” behavior. Really, his “sin” did it. It’s the sin’s fault.
BULLSHONTA!!
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Twinky
Of Bickle:
“There are many misrepresentations of my words and actions in these communications including statements that are out of context, greatly exaggerated, or blatantly false,” Bickle said in his statement. He also said he thought his past misdeeds were “dealt with and under the blood of Jesus.”
Sounds not unlike "anything done in the love of God is okay," including assaulting other men's wives.
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Charity
I have come close to becoming obsessed with following this guy and IHOPKC - there is soooo much wrong with Bickle's history, his 24/7 prayer room, his teachings and his influence in the religious communities worldwide. What's coming out now about him is nothing new among big time leaders who have been exposed in the past, but it's how it's currently being played out by Bickle and the leaders of IHOP that shows the spiritual manipulation and deception that always go along with this stuff.
Anyway, the best coverage I have found on everything that is happening is on youtube by a young couple. Their podcasts go by the name of Wake up and Win. This is one I listened to today by just the husband who used to be in IHOP and he's talking to the people still in the group that might be thinking about leaving. It's very good.
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Nathan_Jr
IHOPKC
Statement From Victim Representatives, BozLaw PA
https://bozlawpa.com/news/statement-from-victim-representatives/
Along with local counsel, Caleb J. Aponte, I have had the privilege to work with several individuals who have reported being abused and traumatized while being a part of the IHOPKC community. I can assure you that this group wants the full truth to surface with the hope that those who have perpetrated abuse will be exposed and held accountable and that the system which fostered such a harmful environment will be genuinely transformed. Tragically, the actions of IHOPKC and its current leadership seemingly demonstrate a very different agenda.
As many may know, IHOPKC initially engaged a law firm to conduct what it touted as an “independent investigation” in relation to sexual misconduct allegations against Mike Bickle. At no time were any of the reported victims, or those who have publicly advocated on their behalf, ever been consulted by IHOPKC regarding the identity and/or qualifications of the “third-party” investigator nor provided any information regarding the process, protocol, and scope of such an “investigation.” All of it was simply dictated by IHOPKC with the expectation reported victims and witnesses would participate. When it was discovered that the unilaterally selected “third party investigator” was a law firm who has a fiduciary duty to its client (IHOPKC, not the reported victims), it became clear that this was an internal investigation being publicly labeled as “independent.” Shortly thereafter, we learned that IHOPKC reportedly dismissed that law firm and subsequently retained an attorney who is also a congregant of the church to conduct the “independent investigation.” This attorney also has a fiduciary duty to her client (IHOPKC, not the reported victims). I informed this attorney/congregant of IHOPKC that though she seemed like a very pleasant person and capable attorney, she was anything but “independent.” At that point in time, I suggested to her that IHOPKC move forward with a legitimate, qualified, and experienced third-party investigator who is not an attorney. I even offered to provide IHOPKC with some suggestions since I've been working in this field for almost thirty years. I also communicated to this attorney/congregant that it was imperative that IHOPKC expand the scope of any investigation beyond Mike Bickle to include allegations of sexual abuse perpetrated by anyone in leadership and/or on staff at IHOPKC as others have recently reported such allegations. I even suggested a two tier investigative approach where the allegations related to Mr. Bickle would first be investigated followed by investigating allegations related to others in leadership and/or staff. At the time, the attorney/congregant told me that she would pass along that suggestion up the chain. I never heard back from her about it.
In context of the above, I was quite surprised to receive an email on Friday, December 8th from yet another attorney from yet another law firm requesting to interview my client. At no time did they ever reach out to seek input from my client or any other reported victim regarding this process. Once again, they assumed that reported victims would participate in a supposed "independent" process that they had unilaterally determined. It was disheartening to many that we were right back at square one with IHOPKC engaging another law firm to conduct what it defined as an “independent investigation.” Only this time, the law firm is one that proudly touts its representation of defendant organizations (including but not limited to the Catholic Church) in sexual abuse related litigation. The law firm website proudly mentions such work, including but not limited to, the following statements:
Why would reported victims of sexual abuse and misconduct sit down with an attorney from a firm that represents churches in sexual abuse matters and then boasts about its successes? I have no doubt that this law firm well-represents organizational defendants in sexual abuse litigation. However, it cannot be all things to all people. It cannot represent and defend institutional clients in such cases and then turn around and invite reported sexual abuse victims to meet with its attorneys and to trust them. It simply doesn’t work that way. In an attempt to help the new attorney understand our position, I provided a copy of an article I wrote a few years ago about the difference between internal and independent investigations.
Despite the profound concerns raised above regarding the law firm's representation of churches in sexual abuse cases, in a good faith effort to evaluate the attorney's claims that she is "functioning as an independent investigator and nothing more" and is "perfectly capable of reaching unbiased and independent conclusions" I requested a copy of her engagement agreement with IHOP. She responded by writing "As a matter of practice we do not release entire engagement letters to non-parties". Wouldn't the attorneys who represent a Jane Doe be a party? If not, who are the parties? Also, since she is functioning as only an "independent investigator and nothing more", will they agree to waive all attorney-client communications? She then offered to send us a portion of the agreement that she unilaterally has determined demonstrates the independence of the investigation. This response simply confirmed my concerns that IHOPKC is in the driver's seat in a process that they alone have dictated.
The approach IHOPKC is taking is clearly focused on maintaining control and protecting the institution. As one who has been on the front lines of addressing abuse within faith communities for almost 25 years, I can assure you that such an approach is not consistent with best practice standards...nor the standards of Jesus. It is not too late for IHOPKC to change course and begin working with representatives of the reported victims to come up with a process that is genuinely independent and one that ensures that those stepping forward to share their trauma are made to feel comfortable and safe. Until then, it is highly unlikely that reported victims and witnesses will participate in such a fundamentally flawed process.
December 16, 2023
Boz Tchividjian, Esq.
Caleb J. Aponte, Esq.
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Rocky
That was my impression when I first read the WaPo story last night, too.
Frankly, I think it might take time for those IN the IHOPKC cult to realize they need to let the group die a (merciful, at least to the victims) death. Well, at least it doesn't appear they "get it" yet.
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Rocky
I just now posted the following to the WaPo story comments:
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penworks
I noticed this Bickle group likes using catchy phrases, like the 24/7 Prayer Room.
In 2017, I presented a paper at an International Cultic Studies Association conference about breaking the power of cult symbols (and catchy phrases), using TWI as an example.
Attached is the PDF of that paper for your enjoyment.
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc. and Happy New Year!
Charlene
Breaking the Power of Cult Symbols.pdf
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chockfull
When there’s an older sibling in the Stepford family.
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Charity
Oh, if that would only be the case. As you probably know by now, IHOPKC has formally and permanently separated themselves from Bickle "due to a level of confirmed 'inappropriate behavior.'” There have been quite a few offshoots of IHOPKC in the past few years and like with twi, they basically continue to teach the same false doctrine as its founder - Mike Bickle. I'm sure more will continue to spring up now.
So much of what is going on with these groups is based on the fast-growing Charismatic movement which is extremely heavy on members receiving and sharing their "personal prophecies, dreams and visions" from God. Apparently, it has become the "norm" for people to visit heaven and see Jesus to receive a prophecy (which outdoes vp's snow story anytime). IHOPKC itself was built on personal prophecies Bickle received from other "prophets" as well as his own false prophecies, dreams and visions (which are so insane if you care to google about them).
This charismatic movement, of which the Vineyard Church was influential in propagating in the early 80's, believe that scripture alone is not enough. In their desire to "feel and experience" spiritual giftings, get extra knowledge from God (Gnosticism) and become "intimate with Jesus" (bridal paradigm), they are falling for "prophetic words" that obviously come either from people's own imaginations or from spiritual sources other than God. The kicker is that this movement (including Bickle) publicly say the majority of prophecies are false or wrongly interpreted (80%) which is okay because it's the 20% that are "correct" that is important.
Exposing Mike Bickle, however, is bringing more awareness to all of this craziness and hopefully will slow down the growth in the charismatic movement. Unfortunately, like twi, those involved in IHOPKC have been warned to stay off social media.
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Charity
In the main Jane Doe's interview with The Roys Report, she said one of the reasons she came forward is because she recently became aware of how Bill Cosby had drugged his victim(s). She then realized that Bickle must have done that to her as well. Before this, she could not understand why one night she woke up alone in a hotel room and could not remember how she got there. This occurred after having dinner with Bickle in a restaurant and having a couple of drinks. Apparently, there were other occasions like this. It seems Bickle and VP have a lot in common.
Thankfully, the Advocate Group (AG) which includes the two named above, are looking out for the Jane Doe's who come forward. Both Bickle and IHOPKC were criticizing them for not doing Matthew 18:15-17 which requires them to first meet with Bickle privately to confront him. Without doing so, according to them, they cannot move forward to investigate their claims. That's part of the system where abusers can get away with their abuses. As the AG has made known, a victim of abuse, especially by a person who has had spiritual authority over them, should never be expected to be alone with that person again for any reason or at any time. This statement also offsets how on a number of occasions, the top leaders have told any further victims to contact them or the investigator heading the "independent" investigation.
Finally, it is the AG that is making it known that all 3 law firms IHOPKC has hired to do the investigation have not been independent which is why the Jane Doe's will not consent to being interviewed by them. These women have been labelled false accusers on social media because of their refusal to cooperate with these law firms.
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Rocky
Yeah, hopefully.
Thanks for these posts, Charity.
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Nathan_Jr
I really despise these euphemisms, but charlatans and criminals wouldn’t leave the house without them.
The media seems to have normalized this linguistic apologetic by referring to rape as sexual assault, which is easier on the conscience, I guess. Hearing or reading about rape is supposed to make people uncomfortable. Euphemisms are anesthetic.
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Charity
I just looked it up - didn't know this before. I don't know what it is in the US.
"Changes to the Criminal Code
In 1983, changes were made to the Criminal Code. There was no longer a listed offence of rape. The new crime of sexual assault was made. The changes to the laws of rape came as a result of how infrequently victims of rape would come forward to report what had been done to them. Many deep-rooted beliefs made women who were the victims of rape felt ashamed of their experiences. The laws were changed so that women who had been raped would be encouraged to come forward with their stories. The laws were also changed so as to shift the focus toward the violent nature of rape and away from the sexual aspects of it. There was also a widespread belief in there being a connection between someone not being a virgin and their believability as a witness. The laws were changed to address that as well.
Sexual Assault (SA)
The changes resulted in three new criminal offences. These were sexual assault (section 271 of the Criminal Code) sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party, or causing bodily harm (section 272 of the Criminal Code), and aggravated sexual assault (section 273 of the Criminal Code). The most basic of these is sexual assault"
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oldiesman
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Twinky
So has there been any follow-up on this? Are more women coming forward to report sexual assault (inc rape)? And if so, why?
Just because the law has changed and the name of the offence has changed doesn't mean that the offence doesn't happen. Nor does it mean that more offences are happening.
Any increase in the offences reported may simply be due to more awareness and more support being available to victims, and to victims nowadays being less willing to keep quiet than they were 40 years ago.
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Rocky
Is this the link you got that info from? https://www.laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-271.html?
If so, this is Canada's criminal code.
In the US, sexual assaults (i.e. rapes, when they are prosecuted), are generally prosecuted by the various states. In Arizona, the criminal code is A.R.S. Title 13. Chapter 14 of Title 13 is Sexual Offenses. There are 29 sections in Chapter 14, covering a wide range of offenses. Section 1406 specifies what constitutes (provides the definition of) sexual assault.
C. For the purposes of this section, "sexual offense" means any of the following:
1. Sexual abuse in violation of section 13-1404.
2. Sexual conduct with a minor in violation of section 13-1405.
3. Sexual assault in violation of section 13-1406. [A. A person commits sexual assault by intentionally or knowingly engaging in sexual intercourse or oral sexual contact with any person without consent of such person.]
4. Sexual assault of a spouse if the offense was committed before the effective date of this amendment to this section.
5. Molestation of a child in violation of section 13-1410.
6. Continuous sexual abuse of a child in violation of section 13-1417.
7. Sexual misconduct by a behavioral health professional in violation of section 13-1418.
8. Commercial sexual exploitation of a minor in violation of section 13-3552.
9. Sexual exploitation of a minor in violation of section 13-3553.
I am confident the Arizona Legislature omitted the word rape in favor of more specifics about conduct which includes rape rather than to treat the offense euphemismistically. Obviously, "inappropriate behavior (or conduct) IS a euphemism. But this is a matter of journalistic style, not legal terminology. I mention this not to minimize the significance but to be specific about the origin of the annoyance.
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Nathan_Jr
It’s a peculiar stylistic choice. I can appreciate the spectrum of crimes captured by “sexual assault.” I can see a potential utility there, but often the stylistic choice misleads and minimizes.
In Israel on October 7, many (dozens? hundreds?) of girls and women were raped by Islamic jihadists. Some were raped to death. Read that again. Raped. To. Death!
But many journalists reported "sexual assault" on Israeli girls and women.
There are contexts where this stylistic choice moves beyond frustratingly ambiguous to dishonest vulgarity. We need to make better choices.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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Rocky
Who is the WE to which you refer?
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Nathan_Jr
Everyone, including myself.
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Rocky
Which choices are you suggesting WE (including you) have the right to change?
Lawmaking bodies made specific verbal choices in writing laws.
The journalistic style issues have to do, as I understand it, with news gathering/writing enterprises choosing purposely vague wording, perhaps to sound euphemistic, so they can continue to sell newspapers without offending tender sensibilities.
When a news enterprise dares use more abrupt terminology and/or rhetoric, it probably runs increasing risk of sounding like a publication with an ax to grind. Not that doing so would necessarily be a bad thing.
What other choices might be involved that I haven't understood thus far?
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Nathan_Jr
We have the right to choose to pay attention to this. Just look at it. See it for all that it explicitly and implicitly means.
Whose brittle ears are we choosing to protect from offense by reporting "sexual assault" instead of rape for the glory of Allah?
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Rocky
Again, the question becomes who is WE. News enterprises, IMO, are not the readers thereof.
When it comes to choice and choosing, I believe it's most important for US (us) to be mindful of that which we have within our control and choose wisely. When we try to choose for someone or something of which we have NO control or direct influence, we choose endless frustration and promote helplessness.
Becoming mindful of what others (i.e. a news enterprise) choose that I/WE cannot control or influence, the inability to control or influence also breeds apathy.
WE do need to choose wisely. But worrying about the euphemistic reporting about rape and other sexual offenses isn't necessarily productive... unless, you have a strong voice in the world/community and can make cogent arguments that convince your readers. Or any other human expression (ART) that moves the emotions of members of that community.
I encourage your thoughts and actions along those lines.
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