I keep those messages confidential. But one thing I can tell you without naming names is one person asked whether I knew if their mother was one of VPW's "girls." I did and I told that person the truth, which they said they already suspected from comments they'd heard directly from their mother, who was a Corps grad. I also know she solicited other women for VPW.
How would you like to hear that about your mother?
Certainly it would be difficult to accept and process. It is hard for children to image anything sexual about their parents.
Yes, there's that. But more importantly and shockingly is the fact her mom was part of VPW's sex ring, as I call it.
The situation of his seducing women is depraved. If my mother had been part of that, I can't imagine how heartsick I would be.
Charlene, did the girl give you any indication that her mother eventually woke up to realize she had been used and abused by a fraud? Or does her mother still believe that victor paul wierwille was a man of god?
Yes. It was powerful. So powerful that I use it today with my Catholic "mother in Catholicism" who encouraged me to go back there.
For the benefit of the other readers, I'm going to attempt to fairly translate what Oldiesman said. (Whether or not I agree with him.)
He said that expression and image- "Father in The Word" was a powerful image and made an impact. As such, he uses a variation of that expression- "mother in Catholicism"- for the woman who encouraged Oldiesman to return to Catholicism.
I don't think he meant to be misunderstood- I think I understood him just fine- but he might have been just a little bit clearer in his communication.
For the benefit of the other readers, I'm going to attempt to fairly translate what Oldiesman said. (Whether or not I agree with him.)
He said that expression and image- "Father in The Word" was a powerful image and made an impact. As such, he uses a variation of that expression- "mother in Catholicism"- for the woman who encouraged Oldiesman to return to Catholicism.
I don't think he meant to be misunderstood- I think I understood him just fine- but he might have been just a little bit clearer in his communication.
Yes. Rocky and WordWolf hit the nail on the head... my good friend is my "Mother in Catholicism" who I thank for and encouraged me to go back there after decades. I was baptized catholic... as a youngster participated but then broke with them when my parents split.. sorry for the confusion.
Yes. Rocky and WordWolf hit the nail on the head... my good friend is my "Mother in Catholicism" who I thank for and encouraged me to go back there after decades. I was baptized catholic... as a youngster participated but then broke with them when my parents split.. sorry for the confusion.
My misunderstanding then oldiesman - I thought when you said that the phrase "father in the word" was powerful, you were referring to how vp used it, which led me to think that your being encouraged to "go back there" meant twi. I connected the dots incorrectly - thank you for the clarification.
Second question: answer is YES. Even up until she died.
With some victims it is possible that maintaining some form of rationalization for the past actions is necessary for them not to experience a psychotic break.
I am sorry for what happened to her and the extremity of what was necessary to live with it.
I look at the Nexim cult as to the extremity of what goes on with manipulation and control in the sex categories. TWI will have varying degrees of that going on, or at least did in the past.
I don’t think the current leadership acts that way but they are heavily invested in covering up VPs faults there because they have doubled down on his class PFAL Today.
My misunderstanding then oldiesman - I thought when you said that the phrase "father in the word" was powerful, you were referring to how vp used it, which led me to think that your being encouraged to "go back there" meant twi. I connected the dots incorrectly - thank you for the clarification.
My misunderstanding then oldiesman - I thought when you said that the phrase "father in the word" was powerful, you were referring to how vp used it, which led me to think that your being encouraged to "go back there" meant twi. I connected the dots incorrectly - thank you for the clarification.
I think you made an easy connection based on how the dots were arranged, to your point. I thought the same as you.
I don’t think the current leadership acts that way but they are heavily invested in covering up VPs faults there because they have doubled down on his class PFAL Today.
I hope you're right about current leadership. But I think they have an uphill battle "covering up VPs faults," since there are hundreds of people who can testify to his narcissism, sexual abuse, plagiarism, and other "faults." Some of us speak out.
Also, there are countless families with parents from my generation (I was in the Way Corps 1971-73) whose grown children who even have children of their own now, are questioning VPW's teachings. They are turning away from how they were raised to follow VPW's ideology. They are jumping ship and rocking the boat. I hear from them regularly.
So, while many of my generation are busy running offshoot-groups or at least continuing to brainwash their kids with VPW's plagiarized bible teachings and derived mumbo jumbo, this next generation is beginning to wake up and leave. They might derail TWI outreach to the extent that it dies out by the time their kids are grown. Or not. Fundamentalist bible cults attract vulnerable people who want easy "answers" in a confusing world.
But bad and disconcerting news gets around ... and often makes people stop and think.
I hope you're right about current leadership. But I think they have an uphill battle "covering up VPs faults," since there are hundreds of people who can testify to his narcissism, sexual abuse, plagiarism, and other "faults." Some of us speak out.
Also, there are countless families with parents from my generation (I was in the Way Corps 1971-73) whose grown children who even have children of their own now, are questioning VPW's teachings. They are turning away from how they were raised to follow VPW's ideology. They are jumping ship and rocking the boat. I hear from them regularly.
So, while many of my generation are busy running offshoot-groups or at least continuing to brainwash their kids with VPW's plagiarized bible teachings and derived mumbo jumbo, this next generation is beginning to wake up and leave. They might derail TWI outreach to the extent that it dies out by the time their kids are grown. Or not. Fundamentalist bible cults attract vulnerable people who want easy "answers" in a confusing world.
But bad and disconcerting news gets around ... and often makes people stop and think.
Yeah that’s how the BOD gets their cardio. Whitewashing uphill.
I mean doubling down on his material has to be the most illogical choice of all the possible choices available. I mean Rico at least has new class names. From what I hear though the content is all basically derived from our common root and even has quirky personal traits similar to how VP had all of those things that people would copy like “Thots right” in a low tone voice. Homiletics and plagiarism.
Yes GenZ is not filling up the empty seats in the auditorium for sure they are used to questioning more which is a good thing. I see hope for the future in my kids but they make similar mistakes to me when young. That’s another reason to distance from cults. I don’t need a generational repeat complete with shunning.
I hope bad news gets around - I mean the public news cycle is very negative. But they get info directly from police blotters and FOIA requests and don’t have a BOD getting cardio by whitewashing uphill obscuring much of the story.
PFAL and the collaterals are replete with logical fallacies.
One of the very early fallacies in the corpus is a non sequitur: John 10:10, therefore keys.
Logical fallacies, errors and stupidity are embarrassingly apparent everywhere. They literally leap off every page. Only the willfully ignorant and the duped intent on beleeeving them into accuracy can't see them.
Logical fallacies, errors and stupidity are embarrassingly apparent everywhere. They literally leap off every page. Only the willfully ignorant and the duped intent on beleeeving them into accuracy can't see them.
I disagree with your claim as to who can't, won't or doesn't see them. It's a matter of cultural hegemony. Most Americans, IMO, CANNOT even see the problem because of the cultural hegemony of Christian thought in our society/culture.
Unfortunately, countering cultural hegemony takes much more than pointing it out. It takes. IMO, significantly pervasive artistic expression.
Cultural hegemony refers to domination or rule maintained through ideological or cultural means. It is usually achieved through social institutions, which allow those in power to strongly influence the values, norms, ideas, expectations, worldview, and behavior of the rest of society.
Cultural hegemony functions by framing the worldview of the ruling class, and the social and economic structures that embody it, as just, legitimate, and designed for the benefit of all, even though these structures may only benefit the ruling class. This kind of power is distinct from rule by force, as in a military dictatorship, because it allows the ruling class to exercise authority using the "peaceful" means of ideology and culture.
Gramsci argued that consent to the rule of the dominant group is achieved by the spread of ideologies—beliefs, assumptions, and values—through social institutions such as schools, churches, courts, and the media, among others. These institutions do thework of socializing peopleinto the norms, values, and beliefs of the dominant social group. As such, the group that controls these institutions controls the rest of society.
Cultural hegemony is most strongly manifested when those ruled by the dominant group come to believe that the economic and social conditions of their society are natural and inevitable, rather than created by people with a vested interest in particular social, economic, and political orders. [...]
In his essay “The Intellectuals,” written between 1929 and 1935, Gramsci described the power of ideology to reproduce thesocial structurethrough institutions such as religion and education. He argued that society's intellectuals, often viewed as detached observers of social life, are actually embedded in a privileged social class and enjoy great prestige. As such, they function as the “deputies” of the ruling class, teaching and encouraging people to follow the norms and rules established by the ruling class.
Fair, but I'm not sure this is an argument against my claim.
Indeed, most humans can't see the influence of cultural hegemony on their lives. Cultural hegemony requires duped beleeevers and the willfully ignorant for the influence to be effective.
Ideologues and their ideologies are problematic, whether religious or political or social. And verbiage is the Soma captivating the masses and lulling them into submission. We are as easily impressed by the quacks on the pulpits as by the "life coaches" on Instagram.
I think we have to suffer through this before seeing it clearly, unfortunately. But once seen, it can't be unseen, then we might see it everywhere.
Fair, but I'm not sure this is an argument against my claim.
Indeed, most humans can't see the influence of cultural hegemony on their lives. Cultural hegemony requires duped beleeevers and the willfully ignorant for the influence to be effective.
Ideologues and their ideologies are problematic, whether religious or political or social. And verbiage is the Soma captivating the masses and lulling them into submission. We are as easily impressed by the quacks on the pulpits as by the "life coaches" on Instagram.
I think we have to suffer through this before seeing it clearly, unfortunately. But once seen, it can't be unseen, then we might see it everywhere.
The only thing I challenge(d) was that willfully ignorant people were the only ones who couldn't/wouldn't recognize it.
Those who are blissfully ignorant (by default) usually can't see it either. Perhaps that's why pictures of crowds of Germans saluting their fuhrer and only one person declining to do so is so stark.
Human nature is human nature. Having to suffer before people begin to recognize the absurdity is part of human nature, perhaps unfortunately.
The only thing I challenge(d) was that willfully ignorant people were the only ones who couldn't/wouldn't recognize it.
Those who are blissfully ignorant (by default) usually can't see it either. Perhaps that's why pictures of crowds of Germans saluting their fuhrer and only one person declining to do so is so stark.
Human nature is human nature. Having to suffer before people begin to recognize the absurdity is part of human nature, perhaps unfortunately.
Well, I said there were two groups: the willfully ignorant AND the DUPED intent on believing inaccuracy into accuracy. My mistake was to say ONLY, so, yeah, that should be challenged. Fair enough.
How true. Unfortunately, logic is pretty much not associated at all with cult decision making anywhere.
Greasespotters know this already from experience, but cult "experts" tell us emotion--mainly fear of losing something or not getting something-- is the prime motivator in cult decision-making circumstances. i.e. I'd better learn God's Word if I want to know what God wants me to do, so to learn it, I should take this PFAL class. On and on and on and on the hamster wheel turns...
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Nathan_Jr
I really despise these euphemisms, but charlatans and criminals wouldn’t leave the house without them. The media seems to have normalized this linguistic apologetic by referring to rape as sexual
Stayed Too Long
Since being so totally taken in and deceived by VPW and TWI I now find myself being very critical of things that people say. When an ad appears on TV my immediate reaction is what is the hook they are
penworks
I admire Jennifer's bravery in sharing her traumatic experiences and related information on Substack. Here's my blog today that includes a link to her post: Speaking of "Way" Stories ... | C
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Nathan_Jr
Go back where? To New Knoxville?
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Nathan_Jr
Oldies, will you please clarify? What, exactly, was powerful?
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Stayed Too Long
Certainly it would be difficult to accept and process. It is hard for children to image anything sexual about their parents.
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penworks
Yes, there's that. But more importantly and shockingly is the fact her mom was part of VPW's sex ring, as I call it.
The situation of his seducing women is depraved. If my mother had been part of that, I can't imagine how heartsick I would be.
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Rocky
I certainly don't speak for Oldiesman, but my take was he meant his Mother in Catholicism was encouraging him to go back to Catholicism.
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Nathan_Jr
Charlene, did the girl give you any indication that her mother eventually woke up to realize she had been used and abused by a fraud? Or does her mother still believe that victor paul wierwille was a man of god?
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penworks
First question: answer is NO.
Second question: answer is YES. Even up until she died.
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WordWolf
For the benefit of the other readers, I'm going to attempt to fairly translate what Oldiesman said. (Whether or not I agree with him.)
He said that expression and image- "Father in The Word" was a powerful image and made an impact. As such, he uses a variation of that expression- "mother in Catholicism"- for the woman who encouraged Oldiesman to return to Catholicism.
I don't think he meant to be misunderstood- I think I understood him just fine- but he might have been just a little bit clearer in his communication.
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oldiesman
Yes. Rocky and WordWolf hit the nail on the head... my good friend is my "Mother in Catholicism" who I thank for and encouraged me to go back there after decades. I was baptized catholic... as a youngster participated but then broke with them when my parents split.. sorry for the confusion.
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Charity
My misunderstanding then oldiesman - I thought when you said that the phrase "father in the word" was powerful, you were referring to how vp used it, which led me to think that your being encouraged to "go back there" meant twi. I connected the dots incorrectly - thank you for the clarification.
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chockfull
With some victims it is possible that maintaining some form of rationalization for the past actions is necessary for them not to experience a psychotic break.
I am sorry for what happened to her and the extremity of what was necessary to live with it.
I look at the Nexim cult as to the extremity of what goes on with manipulation and control in the sex categories. TWI will have varying degrees of that going on, or at least did in the past.
I don’t think the current leadership acts that way but they are heavily invested in covering up VPs faults there because they have doubled down on his class PFAL Today.
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oldiesman
YW, and thanks for sharing.
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oldiesman
Most sickening. Thx for sharing.
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Nathan_Jr
I think you made an easy connection based on how the dots were arranged, to your point. I thought the same as you.
Thanks to all for clarifying.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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penworks
I hope you're right about current leadership. But I think they have an uphill battle "covering up VPs faults," since there are hundreds of people who can testify to his narcissism, sexual abuse, plagiarism, and other "faults." Some of us speak out.
Also, there are countless families with parents from my generation (I was in the Way Corps 1971-73) whose grown children who even have children of their own now, are questioning VPW's teachings. They are turning away from how they were raised to follow VPW's ideology. They are jumping ship and rocking the boat. I hear from them regularly.
So, while many of my generation are busy running offshoot-groups or at least continuing to brainwash their kids with VPW's plagiarized bible teachings and derived mumbo jumbo, this next generation is beginning to wake up and leave. They might derail TWI outreach to the extent that it dies out by the time their kids are grown. Or not. Fundamentalist bible cults attract vulnerable people who want easy "answers" in a confusing world.
But bad and disconcerting news gets around ... and often makes people stop and think.
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chockfull
Yeah that’s how the BOD gets their cardio. Whitewashing uphill.
I mean doubling down on his material has to be the most illogical choice of all the possible choices available. I mean Rico at least has new class names. From what I hear though the content is all basically derived from our common root and even has quirky personal traits similar to how VP had all of those things that people would copy like “Thots right” in a low tone voice. Homiletics and plagiarism.
Yes GenZ is not filling up the empty seats in the auditorium for sure they are used to questioning more which is a good thing. I see hope for the future in my kids but they make similar mistakes to me when young. That’s another reason to distance from cults. I don’t need a generational repeat complete with shunning.
I hope bad news gets around - I mean the public news cycle is very negative. But they get info directly from police blotters and FOIA requests and don’t have a BOD getting cardio by whitewashing uphill obscuring much of the story.
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Rocky
How true. Unfortunately, logic is pretty much not associated at all with cult decision making anywhere.
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Nathan_Jr
PFAL and the collaterals are replete with logical fallacies.
One of the very early fallacies in the corpus is a non sequitur: John 10:10, therefore keys.
Logical fallacies, errors and stupidity are embarrassingly apparent everywhere. They literally leap off every page. Only the willfully ignorant and the duped intent on beleeeving them into accuracy can't see them.
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Rocky
I disagree with your claim as to who can't, won't or doesn't see them. It's a matter of cultural hegemony. Most Americans, IMO, CANNOT even see the problem because of the cultural hegemony of Christian thought in our society/culture.
Unfortunately, countering cultural hegemony takes much more than pointing it out. It takes. IMO, significantly pervasive artistic expression.
Cultural hegemony refers to domination or rule maintained through ideological or cultural means. It is usually achieved through social institutions, which allow those in power to strongly influence the values, norms, ideas, expectations, worldview, and behavior of the rest of society.
Cultural hegemony functions by framing the worldview of the ruling class, and the social and economic structures that embody it, as just, legitimate, and designed for the benefit of all, even though these structures may only benefit the ruling class. This kind of power is distinct from rule by force, as in a military dictatorship, because it allows the ruling class to exercise authority using the "peaceful" means of ideology and culture.
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Rocky
Gramsci argued that consent to the rule of the dominant group is achieved by the spread of ideologies—beliefs, assumptions, and values—through social institutions such as schools, churches, courts, and the media, among others. These institutions do the work of socializing people into the norms, values, and beliefs of the dominant social group. As such, the group that controls these institutions controls the rest of society.
Cultural hegemony is most strongly manifested when those ruled by the dominant group come to believe that the economic and social conditions of their society are natural and inevitable, rather than created by people with a vested interest in particular social, economic, and political orders. [...]
In his essay “The Intellectuals,” written between 1929 and 1935, Gramsci described the power of ideology to reproduce the social structure through institutions such as religion and education. He argued that society's intellectuals, often viewed as detached observers of social life, are actually embedded in a privileged social class and enjoy great prestige. As such, they function as the “deputies” of the ruling class, teaching and encouraging people to follow the norms and rules established by the ruling class.
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Nathan_Jr
Fair, but I'm not sure this is an argument against my claim.
Indeed, most humans can't see the influence of cultural hegemony on their lives. Cultural hegemony requires duped beleeevers and the willfully ignorant for the influence to be effective.
Ideologues and their ideologies are problematic, whether religious or political or social. And verbiage is the Soma captivating the masses and lulling them into submission. We are as easily impressed by the quacks on the pulpits as by the "life coaches" on Instagram.
I think we have to suffer through this before seeing it clearly, unfortunately. But once seen, it can't be unseen, then we might see it everywhere.
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Rocky
The only thing I challenge(d) was that willfully ignorant people were the only ones who couldn't/wouldn't recognize it.
Those who are blissfully ignorant (by default) usually can't see it either. Perhaps that's why pictures of crowds of Germans saluting their fuhrer and only one person declining to do so is so stark.
Human nature is human nature. Having to suffer before people begin to recognize the absurdity is part of human nature, perhaps unfortunately.
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Nathan_Jr
Well, I said there were two groups: the willfully ignorant AND the DUPED intent on believing inaccuracy into accuracy. My mistake was to say ONLY, so, yeah, that should be challenged. Fair enough.
The blissfully ignorant are easily duped.
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penworks
Greasespotters know this already from experience, but cult "experts" tell us emotion--mainly fear of losing something or not getting something-- is the prime motivator in cult decision-making circumstances. i.e. I'd better learn God's Word if I want to know what God wants me to do, so to learn it, I should take this PFAL class. On and on and on and on the hamster wheel turns...
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