Questioning Way International Doctrines (William Barlow)

[oldiesman]

On 6/4/2025 at 5:25 AM, WordWolf said:

What's the difference between sincerity and insincerity?   Anyone should be able to tell you. Someone who is sincere means what they say, and someone who is insincere does not mean what they say.    So, a man intentionally selling shoddy material, and knowing it is shoddy, can make an impassioned diatribe about how fine the products are- but he would not be SINCERE.  He would be FAKING by making a FALSE DISPLAY resembling sincerity.  

vpw spoke a number of times on what sincerity was, including from the ROA main stage, where the microphones recorded him for posterity. He said that the man who tries to sell you a toothbrush with only one bristle on it has to be REALLY sincere. 

Why do I make a point of this?   it's simple once you look at it. 

To vpw, for him to be "sincere" was a matter of THE APPEARANCE of sincerity, and NOT THE REALITY of sincerity, NO SUBSTANCE to his "sincerity." 

vpw carried on, in effect, as 2 people. When in private, he was a petty, venal, greedy man, an alcoholic, a plagiarist, a molester and a rapist. (And so on.)  When he was in public, he stepped into character as if he was performing on stage.  When the cameras were on, he was a humble servant of God, who cared only about what God cared about, and knew that a man should neither molest nor rape women. (It was IMPLIED in CFS.)   

That's why the real vpw made it mandatory for all pfal students to begin by studying the booklet on why they should tithe, and came up with "abundant sharing" and pushed that a lot, and why he was unique in all of Christendom and came up with "plurality giving", which was his term and concept- where you figure out exactly what you need for day-to-day living, and donate ALL THE REST OF YOUR MONEY to twi. No saving, no investing, no putting aside to buy newer or nicer things.  

vpw never "turned from" a humble, dedicated service to God because he never began on that path. He began by looking for a career with the least work and the most possible benefit that he could manage.  From there, he used people and used up people, and found financial and temporal benefits in doing so- at their expense. Perhaps there will be a place for him in the special hell- where they send child molesters and people who talk in the theater. 

This may be a great post in a thread called "VPW was Elmer Gantry".      (and I liked both men...VPW and Burt Lancaster.)  LOL

[Twinky]

2 hours ago, JoyfulSoul said:

When the prosecutor lays out the charges that's when the trial begins.  Until then, all you've heard are charges.

Sometimes atheists are like people describing a bong.  Whose is it?  Where'd you get it?  What color is it?  What's it made out of?

Idk, idk, idk.  I just love hitting the bong.  I might like to learn some of that but the color of the bong doesn't change my experience if it.  Atheists are extremely without joy, IMO.   It's cool to talk about the extremities.  Just, while you're doing that, would you pass me that bong?

Does this post have any meaning at all?????

[Raf]

I think he was trying to say we can't prove Wierwille was an atheist.

He's right.

I clearly called it a suspicion and asked whether others think it fits the facts.

 

[Rocky]

7 hours ago, JoyfulSoul said:

Atheists are extremely without joy, IMO.

You're entitled to have an opinion. That does NOT mean it's at all credible. 

[WordWolf]

5 hours ago, Raf said:

I think he was trying to say we can't prove Wierwille was an atheist.

He's right.

I clearly called it a suspicion and asked whether others think it fits the facts.

 

I think he was letting me know with who/what I was trying to reason. Knowing that is important, and adds important context to the discussion. 

[WordWolf]

8 hours ago, JoyfulSoul said:

A couple moments before work.

When the prosecutor lays out the charges that's when the trial begins.  Until then, all you've heard are charges.

Sometimes atheists are like people describing a bong.  Whose is it?  Where'd you get it?  What color is it?  What's it made out of?

Idk, idk, idk.  I just love hitting the bong.  I might like to learn some of that but the color of the bong doesn't change my experience if it.  Atheists are extremely without joy, IMO.   It's cool to talk about the extremities.  Just, while you're doing that, would you pass me that bong?

 

It's been decades, and people defending vpw can still spring a few surprises.  

You're DECADES LATE to the discussion.   The trial began. The prosecutors laid out the charges. The witnesses were called forth.  The defense called the women liars and insinuated they were sluts and whores.  All sorts of defenses were offered of him.  By all BIBLICAL standards, and by enough to secure a conviction in a US court of law, vpw was found guilty of molestation, rape, and all sorts of things.   We've slowly assembled his biography, piece by piece, from vpw himself, from twi sources, from eyewitnesses (interviewed by a man who idolized vpw).    

Court was adjourned,  everyone went home.  The seasons changed. Years passed. 

Then he arrives and announces that the trial hasn't even begun.  No, you missed EVERYTHING. 

[Oakspear]

7 hours ago, JoyfulSoul said:

Atheists are extremely without joy, IMO.   

Do you know enough atheists to come to a statistically valid conclusion that they are without joy? But extremely without joy...

[Nathan_Jr]

Is "extremely without joy" a figger of speech? Or is it a Lamsaism?

Either one is without joy or one is not. What are these gradations of without? 

[waysider]

30 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Is "extremely without joy" a figger of speech? Or is it a Lamsaism?

Either one is without joy or one is not. What are these gradations of without? 

It's exceptionally without distinction.

[JoyfulSoul]

7 hours ago, Twinky said:

Does this post have any meaning at all?????

You wished me 'goodbye' or something like that in your last post to me.  Better if you stuck with that.

 

[JoyfulSoul]

1 hour ago, Oakspear said:

Do you know enough atheists to come to a statistically valid conclusion that they are without joy? But extremely without joy...

Statistically valid?  95%

[JoyfulSoul]

1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

It's been decades, and people defending vpw can still spring a few surprises.  

You're DECADES LATE to the discussion.   The trial began. The prosecutors laid out the charges. The witnesses were called forth.  The defense called the women liars and insinuated they were sluts and whores.  All sorts of defenses were offered of him.  By all BIBLICAL standards, and by enough to secure a conviction in a US court of law, vpw was found guilty of molestation, rape, and all sorts of things.   We've slowly assembled his biography, piece by piece, from vpw himself, from twi sources, from eyewitnesses (interviewed by a man who idolized vpw).    

Court was adjourned,  everyone went home.  The seasons changed. Years passed. 

Then he arrives and announces that the trial hasn't even begun.  No, you missed EVERYTHING. 

Take a step back.  You'll see I'm being reasonable.

I HATE PLAYING PILE ON.  I HATE PICKING ON THE EASY TARGET.  I HATE CHECKING POPULAR OPINION AND THEN MAKING CERTAIN I'M ON THE SAME SIDE AS ANY POWERFUL MAJORITY.

Actually, If I feel pressure to condemn someone for some reason I don't know, I'm probably going to go against the majority 

Fine, some of you had your trial.  VP was found guilty and subject to posthumous shaming.  Fine.  No problem.

As you said, I wasn't around for that trial.  Don't expect me to to simply repeat your findings.  Nobody gets beaten into submission on a message board.  I'll gladly listen.  I appreciate all the effort you've put into catching me up.  I haven't heard any defense or counterarguments other than my own.

I'll reach the same conclusions as you when it happens or maybe I'll never reach the same conclusions?

Bong is packed, anyone want to talk about Jesus?

[JoyfulSoul]

3 hours ago, Rocky said:

You're entitled to have an opinion. That does NOT mean it's at all credible. 

Dust in the wind.  You're all dying.  It's depressing. Countdown clock on your head.  You're a day closer to dead than you were yesterday. 

[waysider]

Nothing lasts forever 'cept, well, you know, the earth and sky.

[WordWolf]

"Perhaps. However.... in the meantime... in between time, ain't we got fun?"  (Emo Phillips.)

[WordWolf]

BTW,

the GSC is LOADED with a variety of discussions of everything I brought up, and many things I did not.  The archives have many threads, the active "About the Way" has some, and even Doctrinal has some.  

[JoyfulSoul]

1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

BTW,

the GSC is LOADED with a variety of discussions of everything I brought up, and many things I did not.  The archives have many threads, the active "About the Way" has some, and even Doctrinal has some.  

If I stick around I'll probably read some of it.  To me, I don't much care about the plagiarism.  If you're calling him a charlatan at least he copied something ostensibly good to disseminate.  Larry Flynt was distributing Hustler Magazine.

I don't know how much the women are talking about what is now called clergy sexual abuse.  It would be interesting to hear first hand accounts about how he operated and the impact on them- and how many of them were there?  Were they all females?

Seems I remember hearing both he and LCM had RVs that they used for immorality.  Don't know if it's true.  First hand accounts would be best.

What else?  Control.  A rotten, angry Spirit?  

I still say I caught on to a more essential message.  Make the word your own and grow in your own relationship with God.  Talking about VP?  OK.  The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.  VP wasn't the main thing for me.

 

Edited 15 hours ago by JoyfulSoul

[waysider]

3 minutes ago, JoyfulSoul said:

Seems I remember hearing both he and LCM had RVs that they used for immorality.  Don't know if it's true.  First hand accounts would be best.

There are first hand accounts here. There is also a published personal memoir by a victim that details the sexual abuse.

[Raf]

Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

[waysider]

17 minutes ago, JoyfulSoul said:

To me, I don't much care about the plagiarism.  If you're calling him a charlatan at least he copied something ostensibly good to disseminate

You should care DEEPLY about the plagiarism. Not only is it illegal, unethical and slothful,  large portions of what he plagiarized have been shown to be inaccurate.

[Nathan_Jr]

Plagiarizing is lying, stealing. A plagiarist is a liar and a thief.

Claiming God taught you, but you really just plagiarized, is a wicked lie.

 

 

[Charity]

1 hour ago, JoyfulSoul said:

I still say I caught on to a more essential message.  Make the word your own and grow in your own relationship with God.  Talking about VP?  OK.  The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.  VP wasn't the main thing for me.

 

Exactly why did you leave then?

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Plagiarizing is lying, stealing. A plagiarist is a liar and a thief.

Claiming God taught you, but you really just plagiarized, is a wicked lie.

 

 

It seems there were a couple of the ten commandments covering lying and stealing. I wonder if they might be the part of the Old Testament Law that we don't need to bother complying with these day. 

[Rocky]

6 hours ago, JoyfulSoul said:

Statistically valid?  95%

Where'd you get your data to back up that (specious) claim?

[JoyfulSoul]

7 hours ago, Charity said:

Exactly why did you leave then?

There was already a whole thread about me.  Without the hand of God on human history I'm just trying to give some atheists some happiness before the nuclear winter.