As I've posted before, with some of their new staff placements, knowing what I know about for instance their new intl. leadership training co-ordinator....TWI 4 is going to be a 'hell-hole.'
Thin Lizzy = It sounds like TWI is lucky to have you. i hope they don't burn you up and throw yu out like they did to so many others.
Please keep your head on straight and rmember that your only true allegainces lie with God - If compromises need to be made just make sure that your first priorities are kept. You will be in the prayers of many of us - I am sure.
I like the work analogy. That WAS my viewpoint also. My boss at work can tell me what to do or I can get fired but his authority ends with work issues. I have been reading different books and more sections of the Bible and have realized that twi's leaders set themselves up and took authority that Jesus Christ never gave them. A great book that doesnt get mentioned as much is Twisted Scriptures. It has been very enlightening. I have found it very odd not to have a leader to tell me what to study or do in my walk with God--and it is EASIER to allow someone else to tell me what I should do. I have stepped outside of my comfort zone and am allowing myself to REALLY decide what is best for me right now. The freedom is amazing!
I have started attending a church, and this pastor asked his congregation for their blessing on his new teaching topic for the year. He has also NOT advised me on several issues and left it up to me to figure out. When I have a question about what the Bible says, he answers it..but without telling me what to do. It is all about Jesus Christ and not about men. (In fact, NO ONE, including elders and the pastors, in this church is allowed to give advice unless a person first asks for it!) I am being forced to really stand on my own two feet for the first time since getting born again. (And I thought I was spiritually mature) I have discovered that I was really in 'Way wonderworld" which closely resembles Disney World and acting like a spoiled brat by demanding and telling God what He should do. How embarassing!
Anyway, if you are happy then ok---Just really watch out and make sure you don't allow yourself to get enslaved. Things are great outside of twi!
I like God too.but god is bigger than twi,twi was supposed to be for those who love God.What happens when that love is abused,callused,cold like the north pole?Do you continue pretending everything is okay? oh it is
just me,they must mean well.
twi is not like work it was supposed to be a calling,not an end all or a be all,where only the creme de creme
are blessed rolling in the cashola being lords of Gods people.I say who the hell appointed them?Are they not
held accountable the same as us all.
No offense, it is people that make up any organization,the good bad whatever,to make it sing,or make it a hell,you choose.twi has, they choose to cover hide and deny,I do not in my life I deal with it,Remember aint nothing hid in Gods sight.It will come to light.
An organization such as twi will continue,as the millions of dollars,is it honest? it it of good report?You judge
for yourself,I have and found it wanting.Is the blessings of God still available? You bet.Is God still supreme?
yep.It is scary sometimes outside the twi as they acted as a safety net.yep abuse you for awhile then come
back for more, after all we taught you the word.
Bottom line it is our choice not an organizations.take care all.
So what now? LCM is out, things are moving, people are growing and yes, people are coming back. Not just me but many others. People who stayed on the ship out in the ocean during the rough weather and now are heading into shore over calm seas.
Just curious, how many is “many others”? Do they stay? How do you know this and can you tell us how many people are involved with TWI these days?
Maybe not completely calm, but calmer.
Ahhh, see, here’s the caveat. Is it REALLY calmer or are they just controlling people in a more subtle way? In what ways is it calmer?
The offenders though past or present see God's cleansing power as enough and maybe you (and I do mean YOU) got wooded out because their was something wrong with you anyway. Not too many say they are sorry or ask for forgiveness, however, if a person wanted to come back and was willing to forgive the past wrongs - it does take time, no doubt-no doubt! - they would find that miracles are happening with TWI again. I can again say that I've seen amazing things.
I have a lot of problems with this paragraph, TL:
1 – God’s cleansing power is NOT enough – and that’s taught by TWI, even! So they do not feel apologies are necessary? They think they can just ignore this part of God’s word? Doesn’t that send a red flag up for you?
2 – I got wooded out because there was something wrong with me anyway? How do you know this? Isn’t this just TWIt propaganda justifying why people left or were excommunicated? HOW DARE YOU (and I do mean YOU) insinuate such a thing about so many people you have no knowledge of!! It seems to me that TWIt elitism is alive and well, thereby NOT participating and contributing to the WHOLE BODY of Christ as the Bible teaches. That’s an important change that has not occurred. ;)
3 – So we have to forgive past wrongs (which are NOT minor wrongs) even though not one person in TWI has asked us to forgive? Not one person in TWI has admitted to these wrongs? “Just IGNORE it” is what it seems you are saying.
4 – What miracles are you talking about? Actual miracles you’ve seen personally? Can you give some examples beyond getting that killer parking spot at the mall?
God is ALIVE and is good always. I won't say that wrongs weren't done and perpetrators were violaters but that's NOT ME and that's not MY ministry.
Since you claim to not be a perpetrator it’s okay to continue with a ministry that has destroyed lives (and I’m not exaggerating)? You condone the evils that were done by continuing to support this organization that promotes, harbors and protects adulterers, liars, child molesters, and worse?
So I say -if you can't find the Living Word in a church or signs, miracles and wonders, maybe it's time you checked out TWI again because those boys are back in town.
No thanks, “the boys” are the ones who ruined people and ran people off from God. “The boys” still don’t share their money with people who really need it. “The boys” don’t share information on what they do with my hard earned money like all other churches do. “The boys” are very dangerous wolves in sheep’s clothing, but the seams are coming unraveled and those who have eyes to see are all too aware of it.
The abusers I know are still in, still holding their leadership positions. I find it hard to believe that in a few short years they have changed from being cold, cruel, controling, arrogant men to be lights of the world who bring healing where ever they go.
Also, if these men have changed, why haven't they reached out to those they ripped up, to try to repair the damage they've done? Wouldn't that be the right thing to do?
I think you are seeing what you want to see, Thin Lizzie. I think it is not real.
I can think of nothing more damaging to do to my family(other than becoming an alchoholic or a meth addict) than to go back to that. And take my kids there? I remember how hard it was to protect them and get them out mentally healthy in the first place! TWI was not a good place for kids.
God might be good always, but if you stand in the middle of the freeway, you're going to get run over. Nothing to do with God. Do you really want to bring good hearted people into that organization? Don't you feel any sense of responsibilty for people?
Shucks, there are splinter groups that are teaching the Way doctrine you love.The way international is NOT the only place for people to go.
Good thing for the poor people who are witnessed to by TWIers, they have access to the Internet and GSC.
Yes, the boys are in ! As I said I always looked on my country of New Zealand as a 'microcosm' of TWI.
So then I hear its' country co-ord. now has a position at h.q. (refer back to ozbirds posts if you want to know his background )
My bro-in-law is the replacement New Zealand co-ord. and he has a string of 'sexually violated women' deciding whether to drag his bottom through court.
The boys never really left town, Lizzy.
Personally speaking I would embrace 'Wiccism' or 'paganism' before I allowed myself or my family to ever go near twi or its' leaders again !!
You read my post WRONG - you read it to find error with me but you read it with the wrong heart which means your answers to me were all screwed up but I bet you felt really smart doing it, huh? Thanks publican but I don't need your helping hand if you are just going to kick out my knee on the way up. First thing is that God is ALL about people - YOU - ME - US. That's what the planet was made for, to support us so we could all be one happy family and love Him first. When I said my TC was hot on all 9 all the time, I meant that he constantly promoted our spiritual relationship with God. He wanted us to get beyond the "Dick and Jane" Bible reading and graduate to a more grown up relationship with God - being able to believe Him and take Him at His Word. You say that I concentrate too much on MAN or ME or PEOPLE but if God manifested Himself purely on Toadstools or most abundantly on broccoli, I'd be talking about that. Man, you are just so biased you can't even see straight. But I bet you feel smart, doncha?
I posted what I did as yet another example of the egocentric theology promoted by TWI. This egocentric theology seeks to exalt men over God.
This response is again a typical response from somebody caught up in that theology.
See, the issue that many of us who have discovered one form of authentic Christianity or another have found is that the story is NOT about us. The story is about God. Although it's been over 15 years since I've been in a TWI group or have heard a Wierwille class, I still seem to recall a quote that said something about a Christian not being a sheep but being a MAN OF GAWD. Emphasis on the power that was available to the person who subscribed to VPW's teachings. And the emphasis was always on keeping everything in the control of the man.
The result of that theology was MOG worship, pure and simple.
I feel very sorry for you in all sincerity.
Biased? Sure I'm biased. I've seen the inside of TWI teachings and seen the emptiness in the end of it. I've seen, through encounters with people on this site and through other encounters, the end result of that egoism. And I've seen the results when people actually abandon themselves to God, rather than trying, in their utter arrogance, to use "the power of God" as their own, personal, spiritual shovel (tool).
No, my previous post was not a personal slam on you...it was instead a slam on the empty theology that you've decided to again embrace. BTW, I did read your post correctly...you may not have realized what you wrote.
Someone I know(way person) is a director for a city run domestic abuse house.It seems domestic abuse
is on the rise,so the issue makes it in the local paper alot,this person is quoted alot,To the effect"Oh.We are
always here to help,or people can always come to us"My comment to you here is,How does this person reconcile these comment to and about the way? My daughter says she does not see it way brain
Oakspear, are you really into Wiccanism or was that a joke?
I believe the answer was "both".
It's "Wicca", by the way, not "Wiccanism"
And yes, I'm serious, but that post was a joke...we don't have popcorn
Wicca is a specific form of paganism, started in the 50's by Gerald Gardner in England. He claims to have "rediscovered" ancient rites of the Old Religion. I think he was scamming to a great extent myself.
I participate in a eclectic circle of pagans, which includes some Wiccans. My wife and I presided at the Yule/Winter Solstice ritual this past December 21st.
Didn't JC eat the showbread? Why, yes he did. Bless you man.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was David and those with him who broke and ate "the shewbread" (Luke 6:3f). But yes indeed, Jesus Christ was a fearless rule-breaker, and went further than David, and stepped on quite a few toes of the temple "priests" to whom many things were deemed "unlawful".
I encourage you: imitate Jesus and do likewise. Why continue to place yourself under the yoke and sway of those modern day, hypocrite "priests" at twi who like their ancient counterparts, claim to know all the answers, and esteem themselves above all others, having no love or compassion?
In 1988 just after I left, I thought I might go back if TWI ever corrected their erroneous doctrines and practices, and truly started loving God and it's followers. But I have yet to see this, and in fact since leaving, I discovered that TWI was worse then I even imagined.
As a Christian, I'm commanded to love God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength,
Mark 12:30 (NIV)
'30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
It's one thing to follow a group like TWI ignorantly believing they are a godly organization teaching the truth of God's word, like I did in the past, and like I believe some of the followers do today. But If I knowingly followed such a corrupt group as TWI that teaches wrong doctrines and has hurt so many, supporting them finacially and otherwise, how is this loving to God?
Now I honestly have not found any organization, i.e. a church or offshoot that I can agree with 100%, so for me I keep independant. I do occassionally attend church, to fellowship, pray and worship God with other Christians, but I refuse to join 100% since I don't agree with all their doctrines, but at least they don't kick you out, at least the churches I've attended.
And I have supported some churches in areas such as feeding the homeless, or missionary work, but I don't soley support just one church or organization finacially or otherwise. I have also on occassion bought some some tapes or books from some of the offshoots, and have given finacially to some of them as well, but will not completely support them either. At this time, I believe this is what God wants from me.
If your only eating off the plate of one ministry or minister, then you not getting a balanced diet, spiritually speaking, IMO. And any organization, like TWI that teaches it's followers to only follow them and their doctrines is not godly.
So as far as going back to TWI, well, now that I know about TWI's wrong doctrines and practices, IMO going back and supporting TWI would not be the most loving thing I can do for God.
My heart goes out to you for your willingness to defend what you do not know. I am willing to bet you have never been around the "powers that be". If you had you would not say the things that you do, infact your position is a watered down version of what is pumped out by the PR machine at the Way. I worked in the belly of the beast not to long ago and I aslo graduated from the Way Corps training. Up until the point that I was a WD I would have sounded just like you if not more commited. I wouldn't have come on a site like this and question what you are doing here. There is an analogy of a painting I think the King (a.k.a LCM) used and many others also. The painting can look beautiful from a distance but the closer you get the more distorted and evil it becomes.
You say that things are getting better and miricles are happening and your TC has all 9 all the time (by the way they do not use the term twig coordinator now it is fellowship coordinator). Your leader may be doing good deeds but God does the healing not any individual. Enough on that point someone else wrote that the King being gone was only a small part of the problem that is very true. The Queen (a.k.a Rosalie "the fox" Rivenbark) is the real problem. For some reason every one at TWI headquaters runs around deathly afraid of her even Donna Martindale her "best friend" stammers her speech when she feels she has offended her. She take stong men (like Ed Horney) and brings them to HQ and has one of her handmaidens remove their mainliness. The people Jesus surrounded himself with were not afraid of him so why is everyone afraid of The Woman Of God? Iknow I know these seem like evil accusations and I would not believe me if I didn't see it myself. The sublty with which things take place now is what you need to be aware of.
Thin Lizzy, it sounds to me like you think the Way is the only life raft in the water and you are trying to hold on for dear life. Having been a part of it all I can say that I came away a better person and my relationship with God grew inspite of me following Man. The only place the raft that you so desparately are holding onto is going is straight for the waterfall you can hold on or you can let go and finally allow God to work in you and not through your "leadership".
There has been no apology, there has been nothing but pushing stuff under the carpet. I have talked with people still in.....oh it changed alright, it is the benevolent way ministry....with no past. At least that is the way it is portrayed to me ...and I go pretty far back with this thing....it is as if denial is even in denial....as if there was never anything painful...reminds me of scientology where the emotions are made to be subdued if they originate in painful memories.
I said it on another thread and I will say it here, to bo back to twi is to take the bait ignoring or not knowing there is still a hook waiting to kill you.
Being in the way is like being on drugs to me...no reality but way reality, no truth but way truth, no life outside the way, just twi life....matter of fact it reminds me of an addict.
Not to be crude or rude, but I never viewed "being in the Way" as going to work or anything like that. Well, I take that back, I did work for the Way for awhille, a few years. So that WAS going to work. But I have to say I hope most people that attended fellowships and took classes and participated didn't view it like a job where if you say the wrong thing you get dumped. I know some people DID get dumped, but I can't imagine anyone deliberately choosing a church because it's going to work like that. Work can be like that, but if a church is like that - I'd say it's not healthy.
But for the sake of discussion I'll go along with it, TWI, going to work, that analogy.
I live like you did/do so maybe I'm in trouble too. I give to charities, homeless, fundraisers and people, I consider it my Tithe and ABS at times to do so. God is ALL about people.
I believe that the Love of God manifested through our example Jesus Christ was bigger than rules. Didn't JC eat the showbread? Why, yes he did. Bless you man.
TWI just isn't prepared for loving bigger than the rules.
Ummmmm -- I'm thinking it was David who ate the showbread.
However (if I recollect correct), the disciples of Jesus did go for some
corn on the cob, when they weren't 'sposed to! :D
But -- you make a great point (regardless of the *dignitary*) involved.
Rules were, are, and always will be. The God-given ones were interpreted
and followed one way, until Jesus came along
and gave a whole new interpretation to them.
He thought *outside of the box*.
He put a whole new spin on things from God's perspective, rather than man's.
That's why I agree with you about twi not being to love
*bigger than the rules*.
Jesus Christ is *absent* from twi.
Listen to the BOT, or BOD,
(or whatever they are called now).
Jesus isn't there, or even consulted.
It's all about them, and their org.
Twi sees it all from man's viewpoint.
Skewed
Malfunctioning
All about THEM
Forget the needy
Cripes -- they won't even help out their own.
I see someone on the street asking for a dime,
and I'll give him more since I have it.
I've been there, it isn't hard to relate.
If that person wasn't a bona-fide, born-again, speaking in tongues,
Well, leopards don't change their spots. I doubt seriously that anyone still in that organization is sincerely sorry for anything they've done. If they are talking about sorrow now, it's simply a new marketing technique to get their roster back up. People who run cults are exceptionally good at playing to an audience, knowing exactly what emotional heartstring to play to & how to motivate people.
As for them having a more accurate understanding of God's word or however you want to word it, they don't. Since leaving I have studied it myself in depth. Most of their doctrine is their view & does not have actual backing.
I know some may say I am bitter. I certainly am not. I wish them the best. However, their practices, treatment of others outside their own little family & spiritual abuse of people was, for me, unacceptable. When I'm told that my stroke was a direct result of my disobedience to God & all my fault, that I cannot associate with my family because they are not in the household, that the only reason to go out & enjoy myself is to witness, that if I'm not giving everything financially that I do not need, that I have to send my leader a schedule every week of all activities then again after the week is up showing what I did & did not do, study for x number of hours per day, not own a home, not have credit cards, not buy a car unless I pay cash, to submit to my husband even though he was performing exorcisms on me thinking I'm possessed, to not associate with any homosexual because they are full of devil spirits, that Catholics are evil. that the Pope is evil, that their doctrine is right & everyone else is wrong, that those who do not accept Christ are doomed to hell, that others cannot associate at all with you when you're "mark & avoid" is simply WRONG. For any minister or ministry to take advantage of people in that way is unacceptable. And yes, I endured ALL of that for 5 long miserable years.
It took 3 people, 2 of which were once in the Way, several books & great support from my friends just to get me to pick up a book on cults & spiritual abuse & see it for myself. And there is no apology in the world, no amount of money that could ever make me want to go back. I can move on, I can wish them the best, but I cannot ever believe they are sincere. If they are acting that way now it's only because they have seen that how they are handling things now is not working.
Should we go back? That's an individual choice. For me, no way. There's too much hurt & mistrust. I do pray for them though & that one day they can see through the clouds & accept people as Jesus did & does, unconditionally.
There is NO WAY I would go back ... that would be like the children of Israel going back into the captivity of Egypt after feeling the freedom of the Promised Land or like former African slaves going back to living in shacks on the plantation.... God has something better in store for his kids ... the roots of The Way Int'l are corrupt because they are NOT founded on God's Word. For those of you still in, you need to get out. Freedom is waiting ... your LIFE as God wants you to live it is waiting. There is biblical freedom as well as emotional, mental, and for some, even physical, freedom outside TWI.
I had a phone call from an innie not too long ago--still trying to figure out the stuff that happened to us, years ago, that made us walk away. Innie talked like it was yesterday. It was like time moves more slowly in TWI land. For me, like a hundred significant things have happened since then. Maybe a thousand.
I would never in a million years go back. Time stands still for them until they go to visit someone and then it catches up with them. Most do not know how much of their lives they have given up for TWI II but the reality will set in one day. Their lives are so mechanical, if they are not operating all 9 and healing as well as ministering (and introducing new people to the Word), then they are fake. How can anyone stay in New Knoxville for 10 yrs. or more and consider themselves "elite" or spiritual. They are not living in the real world.
I do have to say, inspite of the fact that there may have been doctrines taught that were not right on, I still contend that I learned more about my relationship with God and His Word, than any other place I had been prior to TWI or after TWI. When I say after TWI, I mean the abundance of teachings we had initially in such a short time. I will always be grateful for what I did work from the Word and it does still work.
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Allan
As I've posted before, with some of their new staff placements, knowing what I know about for instance their new intl. leadership training co-ordinator....TWI 4 is going to be a 'hell-hole.'
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doojable
Thin Lizzy = It sounds like TWI is lucky to have you. i hope they don't burn you up and throw yu out like they did to so many others.
Please keep your head on straight and rmember that your only true allegainces lie with God - If compromises need to be made just make sure that your first priorities are kept. You will be in the prayers of many of us - I am sure.
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penguin
Lizzy,
I like the work analogy. That WAS my viewpoint also. My boss at work can tell me what to do or I can get fired but his authority ends with work issues. I have been reading different books and more sections of the Bible and have realized that twi's leaders set themselves up and took authority that Jesus Christ never gave them. A great book that doesnt get mentioned as much is Twisted Scriptures. It has been very enlightening. I have found it very odd not to have a leader to tell me what to study or do in my walk with God--and it is EASIER to allow someone else to tell me what I should do. I have stepped outside of my comfort zone and am allowing myself to REALLY decide what is best for me right now. The freedom is amazing!
I have started attending a church, and this pastor asked his congregation for their blessing on his new teaching topic for the year. He has also NOT advised me on several issues and left it up to me to figure out. When I have a question about what the Bible says, he answers it..but without telling me what to do. It is all about Jesus Christ and not about men. (In fact, NO ONE, including elders and the pastors, in this church is allowed to give advice unless a person first asks for it!) I am being forced to really stand on my own two feet for the first time since getting born again. (And I thought I was spiritually mature) I have discovered that I was really in 'Way wonderworld" which closely resembles Disney World and acting like a spoiled brat by demanding and telling God what He should do. How embarassing!
Anyway, if you are happy then ok---Just really watch out and make sure you don't allow yourself to get enslaved. Things are great outside of twi!
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frank123lol
I like God too.but god is bigger than twi,twi was supposed to be for those who love God.What happens when that love is abused,callused,cold like the north pole?Do you continue pretending everything is okay? oh it is
just me,they must mean well.
twi is not like work it was supposed to be a calling,not an end all or a be all,where only the creme de creme
are blessed rolling in the cashola being lords of Gods people.I say who the hell appointed them?Are they not
held accountable the same as us all.
No offense, it is people that make up any organization,the good bad whatever,to make it sing,or make it a hell,you choose.twi has, they choose to cover hide and deny,I do not in my life I deal with it,Remember aint nothing hid in Gods sight.It will come to light.
An organization such as twi will continue,as the millions of dollars,is it honest? it it of good report?You judge
for yourself,I have and found it wanting.Is the blessings of God still available? You bet.Is God still supreme?
yep.It is scary sometimes outside the twi as they acted as a safety net.yep abuse you for awhile then come
back for more, after all we taught you the word.
Bottom line it is our choice not an organizations.take care all.
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Belle
Ahhh, see, here’s the caveat. Is it REALLY calmer or are they just controlling people in a more subtle way? In what ways is it calmer?
I have a lot of problems with this paragraph, TL:1 – God’s cleansing power is NOT enough – and that’s taught by TWI, even! So they do not feel apologies are necessary? They think they can just ignore this part of God’s word? Doesn’t that send a red flag up for you?
2 – I got wooded out because there was something wrong with me anyway? How do you know this? Isn’t this just TWIt propaganda justifying why people left or were excommunicated? HOW DARE YOU (and I do mean YOU) insinuate such a thing about so many people you have no knowledge of!! It seems to me that TWIt elitism is alive and well, thereby NOT participating and contributing to the WHOLE BODY of Christ as the Bible teaches. That’s an important change that has not occurred. ;)
3 – So we have to forgive past wrongs (which are NOT minor wrongs) even though not one person in TWI has asked us to forgive? Not one person in TWI has admitted to these wrongs? “Just IGNORE it” is what it seems you are saying.
4 – What miracles are you talking about? Actual miracles you’ve seen personally? Can you give some examples beyond getting that killer parking spot at the mall?
Since you claim to not be a perpetrator it’s okay to continue with a ministry that has destroyed lives (and I’m not exaggerating)? You condone the evils that were done by continuing to support this organization that promotes, harbors and protects adulterers, liars, child molesters, and worse?
No thanks, “the boys” are the ones who ruined people and ran people off from God. “The boys” still don’t share their money with people who really need it. “The boys” don’t share information on what they do with my hard earned money like all other churches do. “The boys” are very dangerous wolves in sheep’s clothing, but the seams are coming unraveled and those who have eyes to see are all too aware of it.
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Bramble
The abusers I know are still in, still holding their leadership positions. I find it hard to believe that in a few short years they have changed from being cold, cruel, controling, arrogant men to be lights of the world who bring healing where ever they go.
Also, if these men have changed, why haven't they reached out to those they ripped up, to try to repair the damage they've done? Wouldn't that be the right thing to do?
I think you are seeing what you want to see, Thin Lizzie. I think it is not real.
I can think of nothing more damaging to do to my family(other than becoming an alchoholic or a meth addict) than to go back to that. And take my kids there? I remember how hard it was to protect them and get them out mentally healthy in the first place! TWI was not a good place for kids.
God might be good always, but if you stand in the middle of the freeway, you're going to get run over. Nothing to do with God. Do you really want to bring good hearted people into that organization? Don't you feel any sense of responsibilty for people?
Shucks, there are splinter groups that are teaching the Way doctrine you love.The way international is NOT the only place for people to go.
Good thing for the poor people who are witnessed to by TWIers, they have access to the Internet and GSC.
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Allan
Yes, the boys are in ! As I said I always looked on my country of New Zealand as a 'microcosm' of TWI.
So then I hear its' country co-ord. now has a position at h.q. (refer back to ozbirds posts if you want to know his background )
My bro-in-law is the replacement New Zealand co-ord. and he has a string of 'sexually violated women' deciding whether to drag his bottom through court.
The boys never really left town, Lizzy.
Personally speaking I would embrace 'Wiccism' or 'paganism' before I allowed myself or my family to ever go near twi or its' leaders again !!
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Oakspear
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markomalley
I posted what I did as yet another example of the egocentric theology promoted by TWI. This egocentric theology seeks to exalt men over God.
This response is again a typical response from somebody caught up in that theology.
See, the issue that many of us who have discovered one form of authentic Christianity or another have found is that the story is NOT about us. The story is about God. Although it's been over 15 years since I've been in a TWI group or have heard a Wierwille class, I still seem to recall a quote that said something about a Christian not being a sheep but being a MAN OF GAWD. Emphasis on the power that was available to the person who subscribed to VPW's teachings. And the emphasis was always on keeping everything in the control of the man.
The result of that theology was MOG worship, pure and simple.
I feel very sorry for you in all sincerity.
Biased? Sure I'm biased. I've seen the inside of TWI teachings and seen the emptiness in the end of it. I've seen, through encounters with people on this site and through other encounters, the end result of that egoism. And I've seen the results when people actually abandon themselves to God, rather than trying, in their utter arrogance, to use "the power of God" as their own, personal, spiritual shovel (tool).
No, my previous post was not a personal slam on you...it was instead a slam on the empty theology that you've decided to again embrace. BTW, I did read your post correctly...you may not have realized what you wrote.
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oldiesman
Oakspear, are you really into Wiccanism or was that a joke?
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WordWolf
I believe the answer was "both".
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frank123lol
Someone I know(way person) is a director for a city run domestic abuse house.It seems domestic abuse
is on the rise,so the issue makes it in the local paper alot,this person is quoted alot,To the effect"Oh.We are
always here to help,or people can always come to us"My comment to you here is,How does this person reconcile these comment to and about the way? My daughter says she does not see it way brain
You are supposed to be compassionite in all areas
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Oakspear
It's "Wicca", by the way, not "Wiccanism"
And yes, I'm serious, but that post was a joke...we don't have popcorn
Wicca is a specific form of paganism, started in the 50's by Gerald Gardner in England. He claims to have "rediscovered" ancient rites of the Old Religion. I think he was scamming to a great extent myself.
I participate in a eclectic circle of pagans, which includes some Wiccans. My wife and I presided at the Yule/Winter Solstice ritual this past December 21st.
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TheInvisibleDan
Thin Lizzy wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was David and those with him who broke and ate "the shewbread" (Luke 6:3f). But yes indeed, Jesus Christ was a fearless rule-breaker, and went further than David, and stepped on quite a few toes of the temple "priests" to whom many things were deemed "unlawful".
I encourage you: imitate Jesus and do likewise. Why continue to place yourself under the yoke and sway of those modern day, hypocrite "priests" at twi who like their ancient counterparts, claim to know all the answers, and esteem themselves above all others, having no love or compassion?
Danny
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Outin88.
Should we go back?
In 1988 just after I left, I thought I might go back if TWI ever corrected their erroneous doctrines and practices, and truly started loving God and it's followers. But I have yet to see this, and in fact since leaving, I discovered that TWI was worse then I even imagined.
As a Christian, I'm commanded to love God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength,
Mark 12:30 (NIV)
'30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
It's one thing to follow a group like TWI ignorantly believing they are a godly organization teaching the truth of God's word, like I did in the past, and like I believe some of the followers do today. But If I knowingly followed such a corrupt group as TWI that teaches wrong doctrines and has hurt so many, supporting them finacially and otherwise, how is this loving to God?
Now I honestly have not found any organization, i.e. a church or offshoot that I can agree with 100%, so for me I keep independant. I do occassionally attend church, to fellowship, pray and worship God with other Christians, but I refuse to join 100% since I don't agree with all their doctrines, but at least they don't kick you out, at least the churches I've attended.
And I have supported some churches in areas such as feeding the homeless, or missionary work, but I don't soley support just one church or organization finacially or otherwise. I have also on occassion bought some some tapes or books from some of the offshoots, and have given finacially to some of them as well, but will not completely support them either. At this time, I believe this is what God wants from me.
If your only eating off the plate of one ministry or minister, then you not getting a balanced diet, spiritually speaking, IMO. And any organization, like TWI that teaches it's followers to only follow them and their doctrines is not godly.
So as far as going back to TWI, well, now that I know about TWI's wrong doctrines and practices, IMO going back and supporting TWI would not be the most loving thing I can do for God.
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2natures
Dear Thin Lizzy,
My heart goes out to you for your willingness to defend what you do not know. I am willing to bet you have never been around the "powers that be". If you had you would not say the things that you do, infact your position is a watered down version of what is pumped out by the PR machine at the Way. I worked in the belly of the beast not to long ago and I aslo graduated from the Way Corps training. Up until the point that I was a WD I would have sounded just like you if not more commited. I wouldn't have come on a site like this and question what you are doing here. There is an analogy of a painting I think the King (a.k.a LCM) used and many others also. The painting can look beautiful from a distance but the closer you get the more distorted and evil it becomes.
You say that things are getting better and miricles are happening and your TC has all 9 all the time (by the way they do not use the term twig coordinator now it is fellowship coordinator). Your leader may be doing good deeds but God does the healing not any individual. Enough on that point someone else wrote that the King being gone was only a small part of the problem that is very true. The Queen (a.k.a Rosalie "the fox" Rivenbark) is the real problem. For some reason every one at TWI headquaters runs around deathly afraid of her even Donna Martindale her "best friend" stammers her speech when she feels she has offended her. She take stong men (like Ed Horney) and brings them to HQ and has one of her handmaidens remove their mainliness. The people Jesus surrounded himself with were not afraid of him so why is everyone afraid of The Woman Of God? Iknow I know these seem like evil accusations and I would not believe me if I didn't see it myself. The sublty with which things take place now is what you need to be aware of.
Thin Lizzy, it sounds to me like you think the Way is the only life raft in the water and you are trying to hold on for dear life. Having been a part of it all I can say that I came away a better person and my relationship with God grew inspite of me following Man. The only place the raft that you so desparately are holding onto is going is straight for the waterfall you can hold on or you can let go and finally allow God to work in you and not through your "leadership".
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washingtonweather
There has been no apology, there has been nothing but pushing stuff under the carpet. I have talked with people still in.....oh it changed alright, it is the benevolent way ministry....with no past. At least that is the way it is portrayed to me ...and I go pretty far back with this thing....it is as if denial is even in denial....as if there was never anything painful...reminds me of scientology where the emotions are made to be subdued if they originate in painful memories.
I said it on another thread and I will say it here, to bo back to twi is to take the bait ignoring or not knowing there is still a hook waiting to kill you.
Being in the way is like being on drugs to me...no reality but way reality, no truth but way truth, no life outside the way, just twi life....matter of fact it reminds me of an addict.
PS: hello 2Nature and welcome
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socks
Not to be crude or rude, but I never viewed "being in the Way" as going to work or anything like that. Well, I take that back, I did work for the Way for awhille, a few years. So that WAS going to work. But I have to say I hope most people that attended fellowships and took classes and participated didn't view it like a job where if you say the wrong thing you get dumped. I know some people DID get dumped, but I can't imagine anyone deliberately choosing a church because it's going to work like that. Work can be like that, but if a church is like that - I'd say it's not healthy.
But for the sake of discussion I'll go along with it, TWI, going to work, that analogy.
Can I get some time off?
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dmiller
Ummmmm -- I'm thinking it was David who ate the showbread.
However (if I recollect correct), the disciples of Jesus did go for some
corn on the cob, when they weren't 'sposed to! :D
But -- you make a great point (regardless of the *dignitary*) involved.
Rules were, are, and always will be. The God-given ones were interpreted
and followed one way, until Jesus came along
and gave a whole new interpretation to them.
He thought *outside of the box*.
He put a whole new spin on things from God's perspective, rather than man's.
That's why I agree with you about twi not being to love
*bigger than the rules*.
Jesus Christ is *absent* from twi.
Listen to the BOT, or BOD,
(or whatever they are called now).
Jesus isn't there, or even consulted.
It's all about them, and their org.
Twi sees it all from man's viewpoint.
Skewed
Malfunctioning
All about THEM
Forget the needy
Cripes -- they won't even help out their own.
I see someone on the street asking for a dime,
and I'll give him more since I have it.
I've been there, it isn't hard to relate.
If that person wasn't a bona-fide, born-again, speaking in tongues,
grad of the class -------
twi would catigate me from here to eternity for
WASTING money.
Messed up?? You bet they are.
Like you said --- "God is all about people".
Twi is all about twi. People don't count.
(My imho) ---
David
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Vyctorya911
Well, leopards don't change their spots. I doubt seriously that anyone still in that organization is sincerely sorry for anything they've done. If they are talking about sorrow now, it's simply a new marketing technique to get their roster back up. People who run cults are exceptionally good at playing to an audience, knowing exactly what emotional heartstring to play to & how to motivate people.
As for them having a more accurate understanding of God's word or however you want to word it, they don't. Since leaving I have studied it myself in depth. Most of their doctrine is their view & does not have actual backing.
I know some may say I am bitter. I certainly am not. I wish them the best. However, their practices, treatment of others outside their own little family & spiritual abuse of people was, for me, unacceptable. When I'm told that my stroke was a direct result of my disobedience to God & all my fault, that I cannot associate with my family because they are not in the household, that the only reason to go out & enjoy myself is to witness, that if I'm not giving everything financially that I do not need, that I have to send my leader a schedule every week of all activities then again after the week is up showing what I did & did not do, study for x number of hours per day, not own a home, not have credit cards, not buy a car unless I pay cash, to submit to my husband even though he was performing exorcisms on me thinking I'm possessed, to not associate with any homosexual because they are full of devil spirits, that Catholics are evil. that the Pope is evil, that their doctrine is right & everyone else is wrong, that those who do not accept Christ are doomed to hell, that others cannot associate at all with you when you're "mark & avoid" is simply WRONG. For any minister or ministry to take advantage of people in that way is unacceptable. And yes, I endured ALL of that for 5 long miserable years.
It took 3 people, 2 of which were once in the Way, several books & great support from my friends just to get me to pick up a book on cults & spiritual abuse & see it for myself. And there is no apology in the world, no amount of money that could ever make me want to go back. I can move on, I can wish them the best, but I cannot ever believe they are sincere. If they are acting that way now it's only because they have seen that how they are handling things now is not working.
Should we go back? That's an individual choice. For me, no way. There's too much hurt & mistrust. I do pray for them though & that one day they can see through the clouds & accept people as Jesus did & does, unconditionally.
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ToadFriend
There is NO WAY I would go back ... that would be like the children of Israel going back into the captivity of Egypt after feeling the freedom of the Promised Land or like former African slaves going back to living in shacks on the plantation.... God has something better in store for his kids ... the roots of The Way Int'l are corrupt because they are NOT founded on God's Word. For those of you still in, you need to get out. Freedom is waiting ... your LIFE as God wants you to live it is waiting. There is biblical freedom as well as emotional, mental, and for some, even physical, freedom outside TWI.
TF
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frank123lol
Thought I would bring this back...I donot want to go back and get my face melted from some inane thing
that has no purpose other than harress.......
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Bramble
I had a phone call from an innie not too long ago--still trying to figure out the stuff that happened to us, years ago, that made us walk away. Innie talked like it was yesterday. It was like time moves more slowly in TWI land. For me, like a hundred significant things have happened since then. Maybe a thousand.
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Gillian Rules
I would never in a million years go back. Time stands still for them until they go to visit someone and then it catches up with them. Most do not know how much of their lives they have given up for TWI II but the reality will set in one day. Their lives are so mechanical, if they are not operating all 9 and healing as well as ministering (and introducing new people to the Word), then they are fake. How can anyone stay in New Knoxville for 10 yrs. or more and consider themselves "elite" or spiritual. They are not living in the real world.
I do have to say, inspite of the fact that there may have been doctrines taught that were not right on, I still contend that I learned more about my relationship with God and His Word, than any other place I had been prior to TWI or after TWI. When I say after TWI, I mean the abundance of teachings we had initially in such a short time. I will always be grateful for what I did work from the Word and it does still work.
But go back. NEVER
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