The girls' story has been the talk around Denver, and they have received countless support from the public and appearances on numerous radio programs. Funds were raised almost instantly to cover the lawsuit costs, and the excess will be given to the "Never Forgotten" fund, set up to remember the Columbine highschool massacre.
Okay, call me the cynic in the group, but I gotta tell ya, it strikes me that perhaps there is more to this story than what is being said on MSNBC. I would love to read the Court transcripts.
Think about it, two 17 year old girls who stayed home from a dance because there might be cursing and drinking? If they had said they didn't like dances, didn't have dates, almost anything else, I might have bought it, but that just sounds too "goody goody".
They make the cookies and attach a card with their initials on it. But when the woman asks who is outside her door they refuse to answer because they wanted it to be a surprise?
I'll tell you, if I heard people messing around outside my house that late at night and they refused to identify themselves when I inquired, I would have been on the phone to the police.
So, maybe there is some bad blood between these families. Or maybe the girls were just trying to play a prank and it went a little bad, I don't know. But I do think there is more to this story that the press is printing.
I don't know Abi....I can see myself doing this when I was in high school. And, I have rang the door bell and not answered and left. It was May Day.
And to some people 10:30 at night isn't too late especially for people towards the west. The news doesn't even come on til 11pm. In minnesota it would be an awful thing but in seattle it wouldn't be a terrible thing to do.
I know Im going to be in trouble for this as well.
I agree with the court and the woman.
I wouldnt have sued but I would have called the police and had them arrested for trespassing.
We do not live in a kind and gentle America. We have a great deal of crime and teens can be out of control.
they did not respond to her when she asked who was at the door and kept knocking.
Excuse me she lived alone. HELLO late at night.. THAT is FRIGHTENING>
We have curfews in my town , after 10 o clock anyone under eighteen on the streets is arrested and given tickets for violation with HEAVY duty fines. If the parent Refuse to comply with the fines or the minor has more than three the parents Go to jail . We have sent four this year alone. Minor children need to be supervised and adults need to know what and where they are doing.
Making cookies is fine , whatever, for complete stranger in the middle of night is a little BAZZARE. 1030 is late for me I get up at 4:30 in the morning as do alot of people she may have been woke up and frightened I get it.
Teens sllep till noon oftentimes and drive and party all night, the lesson needs to be set that they are not allowed to assume their LIFESTYLE on every person. Because they think it is good thing does not mean they didnt make a very scary night for their neighbor for their own selfish gain . What an immature game not answereing her when she asked who was there.
I will also say if she was in some neck of the woods I know they are very lucky they are not lying on the sidewalk bleeding from a shotgun wound right now, my red neck relatives KNOW who is coming a knockin on their door at 10:30 at night and if you aint suppose to be there you might be very sorry you showed up playing a knock and run game. THAT IS THE LESSON they need to learn in this feel good love ya bro town. they could have been hurt far worse than we are being nice your not attitude.
who is to say the cookies didnt have poison in them ? COME ON! If it was all about loving your neighbor then why in the middle of night and knock and RUN hmm? they sound very very immature to me and very very unsupervised and very disrespectful. They do need some lesson in how to be a good neighbor.
Well in my town they would have been in jail by 1030 at night if they were out without a valid reason, ei: work or school function.
maybe your not surprised because you do not want folks to be responsible for what their teens are doing like a large amount of troubled areas in America today.
These were girls that wanted to do good. They were 17 and 18 year old girls. They may have made an error of judgement and did it without thinking but they were out to do good for the community.
I might have called their mothers to let her know and have said it had scared the living day lights out of me. But to go so far as too sue them is going way too far. I think the woman was just out to get some money.
She didn't have a heart attack and had an upset stomach. Did it say she had to go the hospital?
Here's the thing - none of us really knows anything beyond what was reported in the paper, which does make the girls sound very sweet and innocent, yes? BUT, papers write stories that sell. Remember the McDonald's lawsuit - the woman who spilled coffee on herself and burned herself. Didn't we all think it was outrageous she got all of that money for spilling coffee on herself?
I studied that case in class. Here's what the papers didn't tell you.
1. McDonalds had been told by the health department on numerous occasions their coffee was too hot (beyond industry standard so much, it was a risk to their customers) and they needed to turn the temperature down.
2. A couple of other people had also received severe burns from the coffee prior to the woman who sued and McDonalds payed them off quietly.
3. Part of the reason the woman got so much money was because of what is called "punitive damages". Punitive damages are designed to pressure businesses into taking the precautions they should have had in place all along.
See, the papers never told us that part. Likewise, I suspect there is more to this story than what the papers are telling us. I find the reason for the girls staying home to be suspicious. Had they even said they didn't want to go because there was going to be drinking, I could have bought it. It was the "cussing" and drinking which leaves me thinking it just sounds too "pure".
That being said - even IF the girls were playing some sort of practical joke, I don't think this makes them evil, just teenagers. I'm guessing the judge saw it the same way, which is why they have to pay her medical expenses but no punitive damages.
Yes I agree, abigail....no use arguing about it...but I don't think we should get mad and personal about it either.
I just thought the whole thing to be stupid, but then I wasn't there. It does sound like they had letters from people that received the cookies and it was positive. And they have the whole town rallying behind them.
Well, ok, I can see both sides. BUTT!, since the girls took the cookies to at least 6 OTHER neighbor's houses, that, to me, indicates that this woman was NOT TARGETED.
I would like to see teens in our country do more nice things for their communities and neighbors and this seemed like such a sweet thought (no, they shouldn't have done it at 10:30 at night--very poor judgment).
We seem to be missing a distinction between something boneheaded (like not saying who you are) and something that's worth suing over. I don't care how right anyone thinks that woman is: this was not an actionable offense, IMO.
Well, One of my buddies here takes her kid to Durango every other month for visitation...I am sure I will more...Durango is a suburb of Albuquerquein the wild west west perspective
Omigod- I cannot believe someone is attacking these girls here in the cafe! Vickles, I am in Colorado, no further "hidden" facts have been forthcoming.
10:30 in July, in Colorado is NOT late for kids this age. It is barely dark. We often just finished dinner at that time. Curfew here in the city is a more realistic, midnight, but there is none where these girls live. Curfew is never enforced unless you are caught doing something illegal. (Leaving cookies for a neighbor is not illegal., but maybe now we can pass a law to that effect so MJ can be sure to have them arrested.)
The girls did not reply to the lady because they were no longer there. The put the cookies on the porch, rang the bell, and left. They wanted to do an anonymous good deed.
Trespassing? it is not like they were scurrying around in the back yard. it was an open front porch.
I have heard both the girls, and one of their fathers on several radio stations, they seem all that the story said about them. they intend to continue doing nice things for people without reward. But they will now do things a little more openly. Like reading to the elderly and just general good deeds. Random acts of kindness.
Abi- By this time, if there was more to the story than was written, SOMEONE from Durango would have ratted them out.
The lady refused their apology since it was not delivered in person. Come ON!. How could they do it in person, walk up to her door and ring the bell again?
The note with the cookies said (paraphrased) "Someone is thinking of you and your family, and wish you a good night." How evil and self serving can these girls be?
Dang, I am sickened that people get so suspicious about everything teens do these days. Most of them are great people. If you expect the worst from your kids, you are likely to get it. Likewise, if you expect the best......
MJ said the girls are lucky they are not dead. This was not some innercity crack house neighborhood. We are talking rural here, the girls were not in any great danger. Oh well. I guess our life out here just needs to catch up with the east urban jungle.
You know, I can see my own kids doing this. They don't like swearing and things like that. I can see them trying to figure out how to make others happy. They are pretty innocent in their thinking. I've never had to worry about drugs or drinking. My daughter will be 18 years old this month.
And being from the west, 10:30 pm in the summer time is not late at all.
10:30 in July, in Colorado is NOT late for kids this age. It is barely dark. We often just finished dinner at that time. Curfew here in the city is a more realistic, midnight, but there is none where these girls live. Curfew is never enforced unless you are caught doing something illegal. (Leaving cookies for a neighbor is not illegal., but maybe now we can pass a law to that effect so MJ can be sure to have them arrested.)
The girls did not reply to the lady because they were no longer there. The put the cookies on the porch, rang the bell, and left. They wanted to do an anonymous good deed.
Trespassing? it is not like they were scurrying around in the back yard. it was an open front porch.
Then why did they consider them shadow figures ? From the post it can be assumed it was dark out.
MJ said the girls are lucky they are not dead. This was not some innercity crack house neighborhood. We are talking rural here, the girls were not in any great danger. Oh well. I guess our life out here just needs to catch up with the east urban jungle.
I do not live in a city I live in a small town with a curfew.
Most of my family is extreme rural tho and I have to say every single one of them owns a gun and most of them get up at sun rise , anyone showing up down the drive way at that time would be considered a stranger and treated as such.
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Stayed Too Long
I hope the community is great at holding grudges and using this woman as an example of what being a money hungery person is all about.
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washingtonweather
what a pathetic old woman....is there a place to send the girls encoragement?
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HAPe4me
The girls' story has been the talk around Denver, and they have received countless support from the public and appearances on numerous radio programs. Funds were raised almost instantly to cover the lawsuit costs, and the excess will be given to the "Never Forgotten" fund, set up to remember the Columbine highschool massacre.
Yes, the girls have been encouraged.
~HAP
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Abigail
Okay, call me the cynic in the group, but I gotta tell ya, it strikes me that perhaps there is more to this story than what is being said on MSNBC. I would love to read the Court transcripts.
Think about it, two 17 year old girls who stayed home from a dance because there might be cursing and drinking? If they had said they didn't like dances, didn't have dates, almost anything else, I might have bought it, but that just sounds too "goody goody".
They make the cookies and attach a card with their initials on it. But when the woman asks who is outside her door they refuse to answer because they wanted it to be a surprise?
I'll tell you, if I heard people messing around outside my house that late at night and they refused to identify themselves when I inquired, I would have been on the phone to the police.
So, maybe there is some bad blood between these families. Or maybe the girls were just trying to play a prank and it went a little bad, I don't know. But I do think there is more to this story that the press is printing.
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Shellon
Good points, Abi
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vickles
I don't know Abi....I can see myself doing this when I was in high school. And, I have rang the door bell and not answered and left. It was May Day.
And to some people 10:30 at night isn't too late especially for people towards the west. The news doesn't even come on til 11pm. In minnesota it would be an awful thing but in seattle it wouldn't be a terrible thing to do.
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vickles
sorry I used Seattle because that is where I'm from and I understand that colorado's culture is a lot like Seattle area.
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mj412
I know Im going to be in trouble for this as well.
I agree with the court and the woman.
I wouldnt have sued but I would have called the police and had them arrested for trespassing.
We do not live in a kind and gentle America. We have a great deal of crime and teens can be out of control.
they did not respond to her when she asked who was at the door and kept knocking.
Excuse me she lived alone. HELLO late at night.. THAT is FRIGHTENING>
We have curfews in my town , after 10 o clock anyone under eighteen on the streets is arrested and given tickets for violation with HEAVY duty fines. If the parent Refuse to comply with the fines or the minor has more than three the parents Go to jail . We have sent four this year alone. Minor children need to be supervised and adults need to know what and where they are doing.
Making cookies is fine , whatever, for complete stranger in the middle of night is a little BAZZARE. 1030 is late for me I get up at 4:30 in the morning as do alot of people she may have been woke up and frightened I get it.
Teens sllep till noon oftentimes and drive and party all night, the lesson needs to be set that they are not allowed to assume their LIFESTYLE on every person. Because they think it is good thing does not mean they didnt make a very scary night for their neighbor for their own selfish gain . What an immature game not answereing her when she asked who was there.
I will also say if she was in some neck of the woods I know they are very lucky they are not lying on the sidewalk bleeding from a shotgun wound right now, my red neck relatives KNOW who is coming a knockin on their door at 10:30 at night and if you aint suppose to be there you might be very sorry you showed up playing a knock and run game. THAT IS THE LESSON they need to learn in this feel good love ya bro town. they could have been hurt far worse than we are being nice your not attitude.
who is to say the cookies didnt have poison in them ? COME ON! If it was all about loving your neighbor then why in the middle of night and knock and RUN hmm? they sound very very immature to me and very very unsupervised and very disrespectful. They do need some lesson in how to be a good neighbor.
The woman was RIGHT!!!!
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vickles
MJ, now why am I not surprised that you would do the same as that lady did?...
:P-->
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mj412
Well in my town they would have been in jail by 1030 at night if they were out without a valid reason, ei: work or school function.
maybe your not surprised because you do not want folks to be responsible for what their teens are doing like a large amount of troubled areas in America today.
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vickles
MJ,
These were girls that wanted to do good. They were 17 and 18 year old girls. They may have made an error of judgement and did it without thinking but they were out to do good for the community.
I might have called their mothers to let her know and have said it had scared the living day lights out of me. But to go so far as too sue them is going way too far. I think the woman was just out to get some money.
She didn't have a heart attack and had an upset stomach. Did it say she had to go the hospital?
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vickles
I don't think you know me well enough to make a judgement like that about me, do you, MJ?
Besides, lighten up I was being facetious.
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Abigail
Vickles,
Here's the thing - none of us really knows anything beyond what was reported in the paper, which does make the girls sound very sweet and innocent, yes? BUT, papers write stories that sell. Remember the McDonald's lawsuit - the woman who spilled coffee on herself and burned herself. Didn't we all think it was outrageous she got all of that money for spilling coffee on herself?
I studied that case in class. Here's what the papers didn't tell you.
1. McDonalds had been told by the health department on numerous occasions their coffee was too hot (beyond industry standard so much, it was a risk to their customers) and they needed to turn the temperature down.
2. A couple of other people had also received severe burns from the coffee prior to the woman who sued and McDonalds payed them off quietly.
3. Part of the reason the woman got so much money was because of what is called "punitive damages". Punitive damages are designed to pressure businesses into taking the precautions they should have had in place all along.
See, the papers never told us that part. Likewise, I suspect there is more to this story than what the papers are telling us. I find the reason for the girls staying home to be suspicious. Had they even said they didn't want to go because there was going to be drinking, I could have bought it. It was the "cussing" and drinking which leaves me thinking it just sounds too "pure".
That being said - even IF the girls were playing some sort of practical joke, I don't think this makes them evil, just teenagers. I'm guessing the judge saw it the same way, which is why they have to pay her medical expenses but no punitive damages.
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vickles
Yes I agree, abigail....no use arguing about it...but I don't think we should get mad and personal about it either.
I just thought the whole thing to be stupid, but then I wasn't there. It does sound like they had letters from people that received the cookies and it was positive. And they have the whole town rallying behind them.
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vickles
Hey, who lives in Colorado that can hear the ....rest of the story? It would be interesting to find out what all the facts are.
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vickles
It also said that this lady was offered to pay the medical bills and she refused, taking them to court for more money.
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waterbuffalo
Well, ok, I can see both sides. BUTT!, since the girls took the cookies to at least 6 OTHER neighbor's houses, that, to me, indicates that this woman was NOT TARGETED.
I would like to see teens in our country do more nice things for their communities and neighbors and this seemed like such a sweet thought (no, they shouldn't have done it at 10:30 at night--very poor judgment).
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Raf
We seem to be missing a distinction between something boneheaded (like not saying who you are) and something that's worth suing over. I don't care how right anyone thinks that woman is: this was not an actionable offense, IMO.
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washingtonweather
Well, One of my buddies here takes her kid to Durango every other month for visitation...I am sure I will more...Durango is a suburb of Albuquerquein the wild west west perspective
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Abigail
Well I certainly agree it's not worth fighting about or anything Vickles. I get what you are saying.
:)-->
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HAPe4me
Omigod- I cannot believe someone is attacking these girls here in the cafe! Vickles, I am in Colorado, no further "hidden" facts have been forthcoming.
10:30 in July, in Colorado is NOT late for kids this age. It is barely dark. We often just finished dinner at that time. Curfew here in the city is a more realistic, midnight, but there is none where these girls live. Curfew is never enforced unless you are caught doing something illegal. (Leaving cookies for a neighbor is not illegal., but maybe now we can pass a law to that effect so MJ can be sure to have them arrested.)
The girls did not reply to the lady because they were no longer there. The put the cookies on the porch, rang the bell, and left. They wanted to do an anonymous good deed.
Trespassing? it is not like they were scurrying around in the back yard. it was an open front porch.
I have heard both the girls, and one of their fathers on several radio stations, they seem all that the story said about them. they intend to continue doing nice things for people without reward. But they will now do things a little more openly. Like reading to the elderly and just general good deeds. Random acts of kindness.
Abi- By this time, if there was more to the story than was written, SOMEONE from Durango would have ratted them out.
The lady refused their apology since it was not delivered in person. Come ON!. How could they do it in person, walk up to her door and ring the bell again?
The note with the cookies said (paraphrased) "Someone is thinking of you and your family, and wish you a good night." How evil and self serving can these girls be?
Dang, I am sickened that people get so suspicious about everything teens do these days. Most of them are great people. If you expect the worst from your kids, you are likely to get it. Likewise, if you expect the best......
MJ said the girls are lucky they are not dead. This was not some innercity crack house neighborhood. We are talking rural here, the girls were not in any great danger. Oh well. I guess our life out here just needs to catch up with the east urban jungle.
~HAP
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vickles
Thanks, Hap!!!!
You know, I can see my own kids doing this. They don't like swearing and things like that. I can see them trying to figure out how to make others happy. They are pretty innocent in their thinking. I've never had to worry about drugs or drinking. My daughter will be 18 years old this month.
And being from the west, 10:30 pm in the summer time is not late at all.
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WordWolf
Maybe I just happen to know the only Polyannas out there besides Vickles'
kids,
but I know some teenagers who would have done that, too.
I know a few "kids" currently in college who steer clear of situations
involving drinking and "bad behaviour" like cursing,
or situations likely to involve them.
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mj412
.
10:30 in July, in Colorado is NOT late for kids this age. It is barely dark. We often just finished dinner at that time. Curfew here in the city is a more realistic, midnight, but there is none where these girls live. Curfew is never enforced unless you are caught doing something illegal. (Leaving cookies for a neighbor is not illegal., but maybe now we can pass a law to that effect so MJ can be sure to have them arrested.)
The girls did not reply to the lady because they were no longer there. The put the cookies on the porch, rang the bell, and left. They wanted to do an anonymous good deed.
Trespassing? it is not like they were scurrying around in the back yard. it was an open front porch.
Then why did they consider them shadow figures ? From the post it can be assumed it was dark out.
MJ said the girls are lucky they are not dead. This was not some innercity crack house neighborhood. We are talking rural here, the girls were not in any great danger. Oh well. I guess our life out here just needs to catch up with the east urban jungle.
I do not live in a city I live in a small town with a curfew.
Most of my family is extreme rural tho and I have to say every single one of them owns a gun and most of them get up at sun rise , anyone showing up down the drive way at that time would be considered a stranger and treated as such.
~HAP
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