quote:Probably happened because of advice from their lawyers.
Absolutely it is. TWI makes no changes unless ordered by their overseers, namely their attorneys.
And in at least two lawsuits, the issue for cancellation of TWI's trademarks was because they were not dealing with the general public making their trademarks unnecessary.
quote:Probably happened because of advice from their lawyers.
Absolutely it is. TWI makes no changes unless ordered by their overseers, namely their attorneys.
Come now Pat. This is awfully lofty thinking. I'll give you "possible" or maybe even "likely" but not "absoultely". You presume that your lawsuits and those of TWIM are the only possible reasons that TWI would make this change. Not so.
Without having been there, you are still speculating, just like everyone else.
Also, I seriously doubt that Rosie/BOD take orders from their attorneys. Advise - maybe. Orders - Never.
Cherished Child, it doesn't fully answer your question as to whether they still sell the R & E book, but as late as the Nov/Dec magazine they were referring to it in a teaching. Which is quite some time after I was told LCM is no longer on probation and considered not returning (the later part of that I didn't buy however).
The *closed* bookstore was another revolutionary dogma of the great LCM. There is no way that he would allow spiritually filthy money into the coffers of TWI! While his material is being presented, used and sold this is a big step showing his lack of control.
I can’t help but wonder if the old saying: “Changing horses in the middle of the stream†doesn’t apply here. Really doesn’t matter what horse you ride out the other side, what is important is the one you rode into the *stream* when the court cases hit. Other words, what you do once a case has been filed and is started has little impact on the case.
They had to check with their bosses in Cleveland and they saw it was OK.I think it is plain and simple, they see a good way to get some much needed $$$$ rolling in. AS with anything RFR and the BOD, this had to have been in the works for months and months.
Having sold my old books on eBay, it was clear that the people who were buying them (for much more than the original price) were offshooters. They were buying them to replace old, worn-out copies (see Mike, lots of people are still out there "mastering" PFAL), and to give them to their children and to newbies. They told me this themselves.
I found the buyers to be prompt and polite. One was even quite patient as had I mucked up an address and the shipment took a long time to get to him. One said he was trying to amass "the greatest Biblical research library in this hemisphere." Having done a little research once at the library of The American Bible Society in NYC, I would say he has his work cut out for him.
My impression is that it is merely a formality and not being advertised and non-TWI people are not being encouraged or told that it is available to order things from the bookstore.
It's not dealt with as a big deal and they do not give the reason for opening the bookstore which indicates to me that there are less than honorable intentions behind the move.
quote:Oldies, did the woman at the bookstore mention anything about Martindale's book, "The Rise and Expansion of the Christian Church in the First Century"? I'm wondering if they still make his writings available. ...
Cherished Child, I didn't ask anything about Martindale's books, but she did say that everything that's in the bookstore is available. Perhaps you can call them and ask. "419-753-2523" I know that by heart, even now after all these years.
Well, reports of TWI's bookstore change of policy were premature.
I just called and asked for a price list and they asked for my name. I gave it to them and after typing it in, they put me on hold and then came back and asked if I was attending fellowship, because I would need clearance from my Limb Coordinator to make a purchase.
They said that they only sell to their followers, so the bookstore is still only open to those on the "approved list"
Or maybe, just maybe... they have PR's number in the computer, and whenever a call is received from that number it gets routed to a 'special operator' to handle with the utmost urgency...
that's gotta be it! I called and I'm still in their computer! ...they're going to send me a product list! ...she even wanted to know if I wanted to subscribe to The Way Magazine or STS tapes!
Hooray! now I won't have to pay those outrageous prices on Ebay!!!
I just got off the phone with them, and they said they'd get back to me with the answer. At first, I got the young lady in the bookstore who yesterday told me that the bookstore was open to all. But then today, she put me on hold, and another person answered and asked for my name and location. I gave my name and location, and she put me on hold and then got back on the line and said she'd speak with her boss and someone would get back to me.
What is going on? I guess it's still a mystery. I'm going to call them tomorrow again if I don't find out anything today.
well... I didn't get transferred to anyone else... just asked who I was (I told them)... they looked me up and found me (how they did this I don't know since I got out so long ago)... I did mention a family member's name who was still in... hmmm ... maybe that was it...
I'll let you know if I do in fact get the stuff in the mail...
A few years after "the fog", I recall that an ex-Way clergy wanted to buy a slew of blue books for the students in a class he was teaching - which was more than likely a PFAL knock-off.
We were still in at the time. We were told that TWI legally had to sell the books to him, but there was no law on how long it took to fulfill the order.
Fast-foward a few years - we're still in. I bought Mrs. W's book. An ex-Way friend of mine wanted a copy. When I asked my fearless leader if I could get another one as a gift, he wanted to know who it was for. Don't remember what I told him, but I ended up not ordering one. It wasn't worth the scrutiny.
BTW - I would still like a copy of Mrs. Owens' book. I really liked her and would love to see the pics and hear her story. I doubt I can get one from TWI. Any of you innies that can purchase one for me - I'd appreciate it - but you might be "suspect" for doing so.
quote: The *closed* bookstore was another revolutionary dogma of the great LCM. There is no way that he would allow spiritually filthy money into the coffers of TWI! While his material is being presented, used and sold this is a big step showing his lack of control.
Yes that was lcm's doings to close the bookstore to rank unbelievers. He also had abs checks sent from rank unbelievers returned to them also.
For you pfal enthusiassts who may be excited to order the collaterals, be cautious. I happen to know that some things were changed in the newly printed prevailing word editions. They won't be the same as the old ones you have. They made them reflect the present truth....whatever the H that is anyway.
If someone is truly interested in buying a set of collaterals from the "original" printing, email me. I have a set I bought brand new, hardbound, before the prevailing word edition came out. They are practically brand new. I hardly read them, and I doubt I ever will again.
Hope, I have Mrs. Owen's book. I will sell it to you if you want it. I was considering selling all of my way crap on ebay anyway.
Can anyone objectively prove that the bookstore was ever closed to the public? Was this ever in writing anywhere?
I'm just thinking that if they ARE doing this for legal reasons, Pat and TWIM need to establish that the bookstore was indeed closed to the public in order to score that point. Otherwise they can say it was always open to the public, but Greasespotters were just engaging in spreading more lies about TWI and never bothered to check.
TWIt did indeed quit selling bookstore items to those outside their household. If I believe correctly, the reason was so that those "pirating" pfal couldn't have materials to do their classes.
I remember being asked by an outtie while I was on staff if I would purchase a children's song book for them. I was a righteous arsehole back then and said no. Now I wished I had. It wouldn't have hurt anyone. So many things I would have changed had I not been a koolaid drinker. Hind site.....can't keep focusing on the past. I can only focus on the present and future.
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pjroberge
And in at least two lawsuits, the issue for cancellation of TWI's trademarks was because they were not dealing with the general public making their trademarks unnecessary.
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Goey
Come now Pat. This is awfully lofty thinking. I'll give you "possible" or maybe even "likely" but not "absoultely". You presume that your lawsuits and those of TWIM are the only possible reasons that TWI would make this change. Not so.
Without having been there, you are still speculating, just like everyone else.
Also, I seriously doubt that Rosie/BOD take orders from their attorneys. Advise - maybe. Orders - Never.
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houseisarockin
Cherished Child, it doesn't fully answer your question as to whether they still sell the R & E book, but as late as the Nov/Dec magazine they were referring to it in a teaching. Which is quite some time after I was told LCM is no longer on probation and considered not returning (the later part of that I didn't buy however).
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Grizzy
The *closed* bookstore was another revolutionary dogma of the great LCM. There is no way that he would allow spiritually filthy money into the coffers of TWI! While his material is being presented, used and sold this is a big step showing his lack of control.
I can’t help but wonder if the old saying: “Changing horses in the middle of the stream†doesn’t apply here. Really doesn’t matter what horse you ride out the other side, what is important is the one you rode into the *stream* when the court cases hit. Other words, what you do once a case has been filed and is started has little impact on the case.
They had to check with their bosses in Cleveland and they saw it was OK.I think it is plain and simple, they see a good way to get some much needed $$$$ rolling in. AS with anything RFR and the BOD, this had to have been in the works for months and months.
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shazdancer
Dear Cherished Child,
Having sold my old books on eBay, it was clear that the people who were buying them (for much more than the original price) were offshooters. They were buying them to replace old, worn-out copies (see Mike, lots of people are still out there "mastering" PFAL), and to give them to their children and to newbies. They told me this themselves.
I found the buyers to be prompt and polite. One was even quite patient as had I mucked up an address and the shipment took a long time to get to him. One said he was trying to amass "the greatest Biblical research library in this hemisphere." Having done a little research once at the library of The American Bible Society in NYC, I would say he has his work cut out for him.
Regards,
Shaz
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WaywardWayfer
My impression is that it is merely a formality and not being advertised and non-TWI people are not being encouraged or told that it is available to order things from the bookstore.
It's not dealt with as a big deal and they do not give the reason for opening the bookstore which indicates to me that there are less than honorable intentions behind the move.
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oldiesman
Cherished Child, I didn't ask anything about Martindale's books, but she did say that everything that's in the bookstore is available. Perhaps you can call them and ask. "419-753-2523" I know that by heart, even now after all these years.
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pjroberge
Well, reports of TWI's bookstore change of policy were premature.
I just called and asked for a price list and they asked for my name. I gave it to them and after typing it in, they put me on hold and then came back and asked if I was attending fellowship, because I would need clearance from my Limb Coordinator to make a purchase.
They said that they only sell to their followers, so the bookstore is still only open to those on the "approved list"
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oldiesman
Really? I'll give them a call again and see what's up.
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Tom Strange
OM... maybe you're on the "approved" list!
Or maybe, just maybe... they have PR's number in the computer, and whenever a call is received from that number it gets routed to a 'special operator' to handle with the utmost urgency...
that's gotta be it! I called and I'm still in their computer! ...they're going to send me a product list! ...she even wanted to know if I wanted to subscribe to The Way Magazine or STS tapes!
Hooray! now I won't have to pay those outrageous prices on Ebay!!!
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oldiesman
This is strange.
I just got off the phone with them, and they said they'd get back to me with the answer. At first, I got the young lady in the bookstore who yesterday told me that the bookstore was open to all. But then today, she put me on hold, and another person answered and asked for my name and location. I gave my name and location, and she put me on hold and then got back on the line and said she'd speak with her boss and someone would get back to me.
What is going on? I guess it's still a mystery. I'm going to call them tomorrow again if I don't find out anything today.
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Ham
Looks to me as if Bally Boy caught wind of this.
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Tom Strange
well... I didn't get transferred to anyone else... just asked who I was (I told them)... they looked me up and found me (how they did this I don't know since I got out so long ago)... I did mention a family member's name who was still in... hmmm ... maybe that was it...
I'll let you know if I do in fact get the stuff in the mail...
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pjroberge
Send Your Bookstore Order to: THE Strange One, P.O. Box 666, Cop Out, Maryland. 99999.....
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JustThinking
OMG, A TWI franchise?! PJ, bite your tongue!
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Raf
Pat,
You're hardly an objective test case: you're currently involved in a lawsuit with them. You've got red flags all over the place.
Oldiesman and Tom (assuming Tom Strange to be a pseudonym) are not known here by name.
I doubt that I qualify as anonymous, for that matter. Maybe Word Wolf, or Goey, or some of the others who use pseudonyms should try it.
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JustThinking
TWI Franchises?
McDo-nots
Windy's
Rosie Rogers
BS King
WallsMart
URA Target
Mark&Avoids Spencers (For the UK folks)
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Kevlar2000
Hey, Pat, I wish you wouldn't give out my address like that.
;)-->
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Hope R.
A few years after "the fog", I recall that an ex-Way clergy wanted to buy a slew of blue books for the students in a class he was teaching - which was more than likely a PFAL knock-off.
We were still in at the time. We were told that TWI legally had to sell the books to him, but there was no law on how long it took to fulfill the order.
Fast-foward a few years - we're still in. I bought Mrs. W's book. An ex-Way friend of mine wanted a copy. When I asked my fearless leader if I could get another one as a gift, he wanted to know who it was for. Don't remember what I told him, but I ended up not ordering one. It wasn't worth the scrutiny.
BTW - I would still like a copy of Mrs. Owens' book. I really liked her and would love to see the pics and hear her story. I doubt I can get one from TWI. Any of you innies that can purchase one for me - I'd appreciate it - but you might be "suspect" for doing so.
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Nottawayfer
Yes that was lcm's doings to close the bookstore to rank unbelievers. He also had abs checks sent from rank unbelievers returned to them also.
For you pfal enthusiassts who may be excited to order the collaterals, be cautious. I happen to know that some things were changed in the newly printed prevailing word editions. They won't be the same as the old ones you have. They made them reflect the present truth....whatever the H that is anyway.
If someone is truly interested in buying a set of collaterals from the "original" printing, email me. I have a set I bought brand new, hardbound, before the prevailing word edition came out. They are practically brand new. I hardly read them, and I doubt I ever will again.
Hope, I have Mrs. Owen's book. I will sell it to you if you want it. I was considering selling all of my way crap on ebay anyway.
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WaywardWayfer
Hope, check your PT.
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Tom Strange
ShegotJohn, I'll get you one if I get my "list"... (or do you think they'll take a long time filling my order?)
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Raf
Can anyone objectively prove that the bookstore was ever closed to the public? Was this ever in writing anywhere?
I'm just thinking that if they ARE doing this for legal reasons, Pat and TWIM need to establish that the bookstore was indeed closed to the public in order to score that point. Otherwise they can say it was always open to the public, but Greasespotters were just engaging in spreading more lies about TWI and never bothered to check.
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Nottawayfer
Raf,
TWIt did indeed quit selling bookstore items to those outside their household. If I believe correctly, the reason was so that those "pirating" pfal couldn't have materials to do their classes.
I remember being asked by an outtie while I was on staff if I would purchase a children's song book for them. I was a righteous arsehole back then and said no. Now I wished I had. It wouldn't have hurt anyone. So many things I would have changed had I not been a koolaid drinker. Hind site.....can't keep focusing on the past. I can only focus on the present and future.
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