Me too. At least at the time. I've been pretty much *insulated* from the crud spewed out down there, amd to see it first hand -- with no recognition of my (what I thought was an acceptable) excuse for wanting to go in to see the
*show*, was something I hadn't ever run across before. :(-->
It is funny that someone brought up the 250 mile radius. I was thinking of starting a thread on it.
We lived 15 minutes away so we were ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS required to attend. I hated it. And it was just like going to church every Sunday. The choir sang, announcements, bs, bs, bs and then the teaching, usually always by LCM.
I always felt sorry for those who had to come a long distance. You could usually see them arriving at the OSC ? building, with suits and clothes on hangers, rushing to find a place to dress and then dress all their kids. Then you had to drop your kids off at children's fellowship (in the warehouse) --> and then walk over to the auditorium, and be walked across the street by "bless patrol". Afterwards, you walk back over, pick the kiddies up and then go to the lunch room and fellership with likeminded believers.
Right smack in the middle of your Sundays. If per chance they are running some kind of class in the area, you would have to do that from 9am-12 noon, go home, get changed and drive back for the 3:00 service. Oh my God, I can't even believe I did that. I am lucky to get off the couch on Sundays now (my time to watch lifetime movies now).
Anyways, yes there was a 250 mile radius. I remember calling the coordinator once and telling him my youngest was sick. He somehow convinced (guilted) me into going anyway, that she would be healed by my faithfulness blah blah blah. So I went, I had just made it in the auditorium by 3 and it wasn't 15 minutes later someone came from children's fellowship and told me I had to come and get my daughter, she was sick. DUH!! My point as HER MOTHER to begin with, she was sick!!!
Whoever designed twi's auditorium failed to take into account one important detail.......extended meetings with FORBIDDEN bathroom breaks will generate loooooong lines outside the mens' and women' facilities. Geeze.......who did the math on this?????
Here's what it looked like from the men standpoint.....three urinals and two toilets in each bathroom, 2 mens' bathrooms on the 2nd floor and 2 on the 1st floor. Generally, one bathroom was conficated to help the women. Without getting more specific on the "duties" performed and the length of time to do it........on major events when the auditorium was filled with 1,440 attendees, it took awhile for some 700 men to stand in line and use the bathroom!!!
Then.....you had to STAND IN LINE at the concession counter. And, after all that....and a 4-minute break, it was time to be herded back to your seat!!
See, you fail to take into account that a good percentage of the men and women in those lines were trained way corps... we were used to having short breaks, too much to do, and long lines. What you do is, make a bee-line for the concessions, then head to the bathroom line and eat/drink while waiting your turn. By the time you get in the door, you can throw your trash out in the conveniently placed cans.
Now, if you are a smoker... that's another story. You have to make choices. You either smoke and eat and don't pee, or you smoke a few puffs and wait in the bathroom line. Don't know many who could fit all three into a twi break.
Actually, I loved the auditorium at first... I thought it was beautiful. I was excited about the potential and thought it meant the ministry was really moving up and out. (Of course I felt sorry for the poor schlubs who had to keep all those brass railings clean and shiny!!!)
I started disliking it when we had corps nights there. Seated every-other seat, no place to put your books. Little wooden lap trays to write on. What a mess.
I liked it less when some of us would get placed in way productions for special occasions. By then, the attitudes and arrogance were rampant and instead of the usual "performers comeraderie" I was used to finding, we newbies were treated like a nuisance.
And I really hated the auditorium when the obligatory 250 mile radius kicked in. We were already trying to get to HQ a few times a year just because we liked the trip, and liked seeing HQ folks that we knew. But to be told you HAD to go, and when, and who you had to travel with, and where you could stop, and no you can't go early to visit old friends, and no you can't stay late because "everyone" needs to leave now, and your family will be blessed even if your kid is crabby for the next two school days for lack of good sleep... just to hear a teaching you would get two days later in the mail was ridiculous!!!
outofdafog, I'm with you... I can't even believe I did that!!
They sure made me feel "welcome at the way"........telling me NOT to come early to visit friends and former co-workers, ushering me to a seat 20 minutes early, hearing yet another Branded song for the 500th time, and coaxing me out the door as quick as possible.
And the sendoff......"Glad you came. See you next week. God bless."
Yeah, right.... .....the life of the ministry is at the root.....NOT
I agree they should sell it. TWI of today just does not need it anymore. What a waste and lots of money to maintain from what I hear. After all, Howard and others used to pride themselves about getting rid of something that is no longer useful.
igotout,
From a "field" perspective......I think your point is valid. The auditorium is NOT a need anymore....maybe, it never was. But, it did seem to be more attractive back in the 80s...... when there were many productions, many singing groups, orchestra involvement, Ambassador One flights to bring in guests, annual ROA, etc. etc.
From a "staff" position........the auditorium is a cornerstone of their arrogance and centralization. It probably has more symbolism than practicality. And, promoted as a stage for "the Word"..... it is a cash cow that will not be sold anytime soon. Why should they? They have millions in assets and various accounts...... and the 250-mile mandate keeps guilt-ridden followers visiting once a month or more.
When twi boasts "come and see".......what are they saying?? Come and see our auditorium?? our manicured lawns?? our friendly smiles?? our corporate image??
"Come and see" in the scriptures had a far different connotation!
In addition to the "strongly suggested" attendance on Sundays from the 250-mile radius, they have started "encouraging" people to sign up for limb and region bus trips to hq. I was in probably one of the largest regions and when we went, even with us there and another region, the auditorium was completely empty in the balcony and the back portion of the lower level.
Let me tell you, a two day bus ride is NO FUN! It was a nightmare and I imagine that's an idea that's only going to work for TWI once. Everyone I spoke with said they wouldn't do the bus thing again and most of them couldn't afford a plane ticket in addition to all the other things TWI requires money for.
Everyone I spoke with said they wouldn't do the bus thing again.....
No kidding!!!......and probably most would agree that ALL THAT EFFORT TO BE HERDED AROUND TWI AND GO TO A SNS....was a royal waste of time and money!!! The bus ride just gave em lots of time to come to that conclusion.
Okay Okay, NASCAR is also a big deal at our house, so one of us eventually wanders to the bedroom or living room, but we always do try to catch the last 50 laps. Thats when it gets good. Go Jimmie Johnson.
Okay, Okay, those Pentecost Sundays were a killer. Come on, how many can you go to and hear the same thing over and over and over? Then you get to see all the pics of all the years gone by and you do all the appropriate oohs and aahs over the wonderful pics of Docvic (Praise be his name)and how the ministry grew and grew (ad nauseum) because of Docvic (praise be his name) and on and on and on.............
sky, they were still doing them when I left, but I think it's only because they hadn't hit all the regions yet. If they try to do it again, I seriously doubt you'll see repeat customers on that one!
It was run of the mill services, nothing special, no special holidays or anything like that. I imagine that's because they can twist arms to get the 250 mile radius people to fill the lower portion of the auditorium for those things. From what I understand, after they had to start loosening the ties that bind, most of the 250-mile people quit going every Sunday. I can't says I blame them. I hated driving to the other side of town for phone hook-ups. It wasted the whole effen day (and right in the middle of most NASCAR races, too!)
Bus rides and long trips can be grueling for sure......BUT if the destination yields fun, excitement, bonding, memories, etc...THEN it's worth every hour and every penny.
If truth were TOLD.....it seems apparent that the destination (twi hqs) was HO-HUM, BEEN-THERE-DONE-THAT, NO FRILLS and definitely DISTANCE-BONDING.....ie "we love you from a distance."
Even a child can spot hypocrisy at work...... and a teenager will confront it !!
The building of the WOW auditorium was one of my first red flags about the direction the ministry was going. Of course I kept this opinion solely to myself.
You could begin to see TWI evolve into the very thing they continued to teach that they were not - an organized religion.
But still I stayed and convinced myself "nah, we are different than those religious organizations."
Anybody now can see that those Sunday trips to HQ became totally like going to church. Even more severe than your basic hometown church. Corps showing up in matching trench coats, hats and briefcases. Everyone milling around the "statue of Wierwille". Mandatory attendance within a 250 mile radius.
Come on, where is the grassroots fellowship that brought us all together. Remember when going to fellowship was fun?
If there is anything that those of us who are out can be thankful for, is that we are out.
Never cared for the place. IMO, it was really dark in there.
I think one of the many things that ticked me off about LCM's reign was the name-change of the building from the VPW "Word over the World Auditorium" to the "Prevailing Word Auditorium" - or something like that. I think that he took VP's name off the building name as well.
Look, the Empire State Building will ALWAYS be the Empire State Building. Chrysler Building, Sears Tower, Yankee Stadium... they get their names and it stays that way.
I know that some stadiums (stadia?) change their names from time to time because of advertising (i.e., the old Tampa Stadium became Houlihan's Stadium when the Glasier's bought the team - then it got torn down and the new stadium is now called Raymond James Stadium - affectionatly known as "RayJay"). But for the most part, buildings - especially ones that are dedicated or named for a specific person, usually don't change names. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I suppose Trump Tower will always be Trump Tower, too...
Anyway - it ticked me off that LCM was so anal about changing WOW and VPW stuff that he spent my ABS to change the name on the overhang and everywhere else on that thing.
Oh - I also heard the place was a b!tch to maintain - even when TWI was rolling in $$$. I've also been told it's gotten pretty seedy in the past 5 or 6 years. Wouldn't surprise me.
I have two memories of the auditorium. We were invited to its opening, along with 2Life & Family.
I also remember being in there while some hapless soul was polishing a brass railing. He was not blessed to be serving, but irritated beyond belief. I did thank him, which somewhat surprised him. It is possible to get brass that's been coated with some kind of finish so it wont' tarnish, like Baldwin brass. I'm surprised they didn't go for that.
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outandabout
Sorry that happened.
:(-->
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dmiller
Me too. At least at the time. I've been pretty much *insulated* from the crud spewed out down there, amd to see it first hand -- with no recognition of my (what I thought was an acceptable) excuse for wanting to go in to see the
*show*, was something I hadn't ever run across before.
:(-->
But I got over it quick.
:D-->
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outofdafog
It is funny that someone brought up the 250 mile radius. I was thinking of starting a thread on it.
We lived 15 minutes away so we were ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS required to attend. I hated it. And it was just like going to church every Sunday. The choir sang, announcements, bs, bs, bs and then the teaching, usually always by LCM.
I always felt sorry for those who had to come a long distance. You could usually see them arriving at the OSC ? building, with suits and clothes on hangers, rushing to find a place to dress and then dress all their kids. Then you had to drop your kids off at children's fellowship (in the warehouse)
--> and then walk over to the auditorium, and be walked across the street by "bless patrol". Afterwards, you walk back over, pick the kiddies up and then go to the lunch room and fellership with likeminded believers.
Right smack in the middle of your Sundays. If per chance they are running some kind of class in the area, you would have to do that from 9am-12 noon, go home, get changed and drive back for the 3:00 service. Oh my God, I can't even believe I did that. I am lucky to get off the couch on Sundays now (my time to watch lifetime movies now).
Anyways, yes there was a 250 mile radius. I remember calling the coordinator once and telling him my youngest was sick. He somehow convinced (guilted) me into going anyway, that she would be healed by my faithfulness blah blah blah. So I went, I had just made it in the auditorium by 3 and it wasn't 15 minutes later someone came from children's fellowship and told me I had to come and get my daughter, she was sick. DUH!! My point as HER MOTHER to begin with, she was sick!!!
God it goes on and on and on...................
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skyrider
Whoever designed twi's auditorium failed to take into account one important detail.......extended meetings with FORBIDDEN bathroom breaks will generate loooooong lines outside the mens' and women' facilities. Geeze.......who did the math on this?????
Here's what it looked like from the men standpoint.....three urinals and two toilets in each bathroom, 2 mens' bathrooms on the 2nd floor and 2 on the 1st floor. Generally, one bathroom was conficated to help the women. Without getting more specific on the "duties" performed and the length of time to do it........on major events when the auditorium was filled with 1,440 attendees, it took awhile for some 700 men to stand in line and use the bathroom!!!
Then.....you had to STAND IN LINE at the concession counter. And, after all that....and a 4-minute break, it was time to be herded back to your seat!!
Uuuuuuuuggggggghhhhh.
-->
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TheHighWay
Ahhh, Skyrider, the memories!!!
See, you fail to take into account that a good percentage of the men and women in those lines were trained way corps... we were used to having short breaks, too much to do, and long lines. What you do is, make a bee-line for the concessions, then head to the bathroom line and eat/drink while waiting your turn. By the time you get in the door, you can throw your trash out in the conveniently placed cans.
Now, if you are a smoker... that's another story. You have to make choices. You either smoke and eat and don't pee, or you smoke a few puffs and wait in the bathroom line. Don't know many who could fit all three into a twi break.
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TheHighWay
Actually, I loved the auditorium at first... I thought it was beautiful. I was excited about the potential and thought it meant the ministry was really moving up and out. (Of course I felt sorry for the poor schlubs who had to keep all those brass railings clean and shiny!!!)
I started disliking it when we had corps nights there. Seated every-other seat, no place to put your books. Little wooden lap trays to write on. What a mess.
I liked it less when some of us would get placed in way productions for special occasions. By then, the attitudes and arrogance were rampant and instead of the usual "performers comeraderie" I was used to finding, we newbies were treated like a nuisance.
And I really hated the auditorium when the obligatory 250 mile radius kicked in. We were already trying to get to HQ a few times a year just because we liked the trip, and liked seeing HQ folks that we knew. But to be told you HAD to go, and when, and who you had to travel with, and where you could stop, and no you can't go early to visit old friends, and no you can't stay late because "everyone" needs to leave now, and your family will be blessed even if your kid is crabby for the next two school days for lack of good sleep... just to hear a teaching you would get two days later in the mail was ridiculous!!!
outofdafog, I'm with you... I can't even believe I did that!!
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skyrider
TheHighWay,
Yeah, lots of butt-numbing memories.
:D-->
They sure made me feel "welcome at the way"........telling me NOT to come early to visit friends and former co-workers, ushering me to a seat 20 minutes early, hearing yet another Branded song for the 500th time, and coaxing me out the door as quick as possible.
And the sendoff......"Glad you came. See you next week. God bless."
Yeah, right....
.....the life of the ministry is at the root.....NOT
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Steve!
The thing is, I really doubt that there's anyone to whom they could sell that building.
It's out in the middle of a frickin' cornfield, fercryinoutloud!
It's not really convenient to anyone - not even people in New Knoxville proper, because it's outside of town.
And what big organization besides TWIt could New Knoxville possibly hold?
Ain't gonna happen, uh uh.
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Ham
Yep.. it'd take a real estate "miracle" heh heh. Maybe some poor sucker could buy it and move it one brick at a time somewhere.
On the other hand- maybe they could auction off one brick at a time on greasespotcafe.com.
Maybe a little mean- just a little "ornery" this morning, heh heh.
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skyrider
igotout,
From a "field" perspective......I think your point is valid. The auditorium is NOT a need anymore....maybe, it never was. But, it did seem to be more attractive back in the 80s...... when there were many productions, many singing groups, orchestra involvement, Ambassador One flights to bring in guests, annual ROA, etc. etc.
From a "staff" position........the auditorium is a cornerstone of their arrogance and centralization. It probably has more symbolism than practicality. And, promoted as a stage for "the Word"..... it is a cash cow that will not be sold anytime soon. Why should they? They have millions in assets and various accounts...... and the 250-mile mandate keeps guilt-ridden followers visiting once a month or more.
When twi boasts "come and see".......what are they saying?? Come and see our auditorium?? our manicured lawns?? our friendly smiles?? our corporate image??
"Come and see" in the scriptures had a far different connotation!
Obviously!!!!
:D-->
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outandabout
outofdafog:
Yeeha! you me both sistah!
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Belle
Sundays are for NASCAR in my house!
:D-->
In addition to the "strongly suggested" attendance on Sundays from the 250-mile radius, they have started "encouraging" people to sign up for limb and region bus trips to hq. I was in probably one of the largest regions and when we went, even with us there and another region, the auditorium was completely empty in the balcony and the back portion of the lower level.
Let me tell you, a two day bus ride is NO FUN! It was a nightmare and I imagine that's an idea that's only going to work for TWI once. Everyone I spoke with said they wouldn't do the bus thing again and most of them couldn't afford a plane ticket in addition to all the other things TWI requires money for.
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skyrider
A two-day bus ride to twi's hq???
No kidding!!!......and probably most would agree that ALL THAT EFFORT TO BE HERDED AROUND TWI AND GO TO A SNS....was a royal waste of time and money!!! The bus ride just gave em lots of time to come to that conclusion.
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oldiesman
dmiller, you missed one helluva performance. Better than John Travolta, if I say so myself.
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skyrider
Belle,
Are they still doing these sign-up bus trips to hqs?
And, were these trips scheduled for major events like Pentecost weekend & Anniversary weekends or just run-o-the-mill services??
More than likely, twi will toot their horn long & loud for this 20th anniversary.
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outofdafog
Okay Okay, NASCAR is also a big deal at our house, so one of us eventually wanders to the bedroom or living room, but we always do try to catch the last 50 laps. Thats when it gets good. Go Jimmie Johnson.
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outofdafog
Okay, Okay, those Pentecost Sundays were a killer. Come on, how many can you go to and hear the same thing over and over and over? Then you get to see all the pics of all the years gone by and you do all the appropriate oohs and aahs over the wonderful pics of Docvic (Praise be his name)and how the ministry grew and grew (ad nauseum) because of Docvic (praise be his name) and on and on and on.............
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Belle
sky, they were still doing them when I left, but I think it's only because they hadn't hit all the regions yet. If they try to do it again, I seriously doubt you'll see repeat customers on that one!
It was run of the mill services, nothing special, no special holidays or anything like that. I imagine that's because they can twist arms to get the 250 mile radius people to fill the lower portion of the auditorium for those things. From what I understand, after they had to start loosening the ties that bind, most of the 250-mile people quit going every Sunday. I can't says I blame them. I hated driving to the other side of town for phone hook-ups. It wasted the whole effen day (and right in the middle of most NASCAR races, too!)
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skyrider
Bus rides and long trips can be grueling for sure......BUT if the destination yields fun, excitement, bonding, memories, etc...THEN it's worth every hour and every penny.
If truth were TOLD.....it seems apparent that the destination (twi hqs) was HO-HUM, BEEN-THERE-DONE-THAT, NO FRILLS and definitely DISTANCE-BONDING.....ie "we love you from a distance."
Even a child can spot hypocrisy at work...... and a teenager will confront it !!
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outofdafog
The building of the WOW auditorium was one of my first red flags about the direction the ministry was going. Of course I kept this opinion solely to myself.
You could begin to see TWI evolve into the very thing they continued to teach that they were not - an organized religion.
But still I stayed and convinced myself "nah, we are different than those religious organizations."
Anybody now can see that those Sunday trips to HQ became totally like going to church. Even more severe than your basic hometown church. Corps showing up in matching trench coats, hats and briefcases. Everyone milling around the "statue of Wierwille". Mandatory attendance within a 250 mile radius.
Come on, where is the grassroots fellowship that brought us all together. Remember when going to fellowship was fun?
If there is anything that those of us who are out can be thankful for, is that we are out.
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rascal
DMiller, I didn`t get to go to aos or see the auditorium either, as I had to be in wow training when it was our regions turn to go.
I couldn`t believe that an exception wouldn`t be made in the wows case....it`s not like we were allowed to miss training.
Kindda left me cold too.
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Hope R.
Never cared for the place. IMO, it was really dark in there.
I think one of the many things that ticked me off about LCM's reign was the name-change of the building from the VPW "Word over the World Auditorium" to the "Prevailing Word Auditorium" - or something like that. I think that he took VP's name off the building name as well.
Look, the Empire State Building will ALWAYS be the Empire State Building. Chrysler Building, Sears Tower, Yankee Stadium... they get their names and it stays that way.
I know that some stadiums (stadia?) change their names from time to time because of advertising (i.e., the old Tampa Stadium became Houlihan's Stadium when the Glasier's bought the team - then it got torn down and the new stadium is now called Raymond James Stadium - affectionatly known as "RayJay"). But for the most part, buildings - especially ones that are dedicated or named for a specific person, usually don't change names. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I suppose Trump Tower will always be Trump Tower, too...
Anyway - it ticked me off that LCM was so anal about changing WOW and VPW stuff that he spent my ABS to change the name on the overhang and everywhere else on that thing.
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Hope R.
Oh - I also heard the place was a b!tch to maintain - even when TWI was rolling in $$$. I've also been told it's gotten pretty seedy in the past 5 or 6 years. Wouldn't surprise me.
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Watered Garden
I have two memories of the auditorium. We were invited to its opening, along with 2Life & Family.
I also remember being in there while some hapless soul was polishing a brass railing. He was not blessed to be serving, but irritated beyond belief. I did thank him, which somewhat surprised him. It is possible to get brass that's been coated with some kind of finish so it wont' tarnish, like Baldwin brass. I'm surprised they didn't go for that.
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