That trade they made at the deadline just may be looked back upon as "the deal that sealed it"... of course, they have to play the games but those two players, plus the fact that Boston 'stood pat' and then just got nailed with injuries to key people...
...and I'm thinking now that Sheffield isn't coming back... unless he agrees to play first...
I'm usually relaxed as can be .....Maybe I'm just getting old.
Nah. Its just all that California air ----dude
For me its not that all bad-its disappointing, but I could see it happening even though I didnt want to see it coming , there have been signs building up that i was avoiding--- sort of like when you are in a relationship that you subconsciously know is bound to fail yet you ride it out because---- well----- this is who you are attached to and hope for the best.
But '06 is all but done--its been collapsing for over a month---and what were 'concerns' are now gaping holes in the bow. The ship is not listing but daily tilted a little more upward like the Titanic getting ready to go down....Every time I see a call to the bullpen,
if I listen closely, I can almost hear the band playing "Nearer My God To Thee" on the deck,
plus the fact that Boston 'stood pat' and then just got nailed with injuries to key people...
There are alot of youngsters on this team (5 rookies on the pitching staff alone-plus a few position players at 22 and 23. They'll all be better than average in a year or two, but they lack the maturity to compete consistantly right now on a championship level. The Sox weighed it and didnt want to part with any of them at the trade deadline.
In alot of ways it was a rebuilding year from the start when i look at it now.
I dont know if its possible to rebuild and also win everything at the same time as they were trying to do, a good experiment, but looks pretty much like it will fall short
When Edinson Volquez made his start a week or so ago he was the EIGHTH rookie pitcher we'd used this year... and 12th starter...
Just heard that was the first 5 game sweep teh BoSox have suffered since 1954... I don't know if we've suffered any, but if we haven't it's probably only because we haven't played any 5 game series!
One good thing about getting a little older,I guess,is that you appreciate more that there is life outside of baseball...I'm not ready to stick a fork in the Bosox just yet,but this series w/ the Yanks reminded me a little bit of the '69 Cubs...
Of,course,I was only 13 then,and there really wasn't much in life outside of baseball...Oh,I may have had a girlfriend then,but we weren't having sex,so it didn't really count....I remember how good the Cubs were for the first 100 or so games...Four great starting pitchers,a million dollar infield,and some great hitters....In fact,on paper I think they may have been the best team in '69 AND '70....I remember as their ten game lead started dwindling in August and they went to NY for a two-game set with those (goddamn) miracle mets of '69,(whom,I wish would rot like pigs in hell) with only a 2 1/2 game lead...And of course the (sonofabitchin') mets swept the Cubs,and at the end of the last game,the (rat bastard)mets fans were singing something like "Goodby Leo" to Leo Durocher and the Cubs,knowing full well the mother of all swoons was nearly completed for the (shi t tin') Cubs and the (devilish) mets were taking over...
And then there was famed Cubs' announcer,Jack Brickhouse,after the game,...somehow trying to fill in 20 minutes of airtime,all red-faced and nearly teary-eyed...A disappointed on-air persona that at that time I only saw surpassed by Walter Cronkite's "President Kennedy has been shot" announcement....
And,of course,history tells us that those (fo kking) mets went on to win the World series and the Cubs went on to become,well,the '69 Cubs...But I never let any of that bother me--then or now...I mean there's really nothing to get over,just because those (as s hole) mets ripped my living heart out and stomped it death with their sharpened baseball cleats...It's only a game...
Yea well -after 40 years of being a Red Sox fan Ive learned when and how to keep my heart somewhat protected ---Iive seen it too many times and know when to slowly back away and act disinterested -and not have my innards strewn about and filleted anymore. Done it too many times.
Great writing Simon, ---I wonder how much of these type things formulate who we are when we are young --Its still there for you, the way the 67 Sox captured me and made an "Impossible Dream"-I remember the 69 Cubs-Fergie Jenkins, Kenny Holtzman, The Infield of Santo, Kessinger, Beckett and Banks and Billy Williams in the OF-i was pulling for them, in the days before ESPN, from a distance----and well---- I wont go into black cats and other things--i was merely disappointed -because I liked them--- but they werent my team....I could live with it, I lost 5 bucks on that World Series which was steep for my 14 YO paperboy wallet
LOL--I suppose they'll keep him around and still try to finagle a wild card spot....
I know anything can happen if (BIG IF) they make it in but honestly looking at them they re really not built to go deep in the playoffs. Seems a shame to waste these big years by Manny, Papi and Schilling who have each carried the team at various points through the year and not put the rest of the pieces in place.
What're you goin t'do?
Sure---- I'll put in a good word with Theo for you
Looking at the standings this could be shaping up to be another "Subway Series" as both the Mets and Yanks have .610 pct. With about 40 games left anything could happen though as injuries could have an impact. Detroit is looking pretty good in the Central Division with .640 pct though.
Shaun Green is having an ok year, but he hasn't been an impact player for a few years. He hit 49 home runs for the Dodgers when they first got him, which is amazing in Dodger Stadium, but his numbers went progressively lower the next couple of years. It almost got to be a given that he would kill a rally by grounding into a double play.
He's done better for the Diamondbacks, and may be a good pick up for the Mets. He's a good guy and good player, that could have been better.
When the steroid issue first went through the roof and people started looking at Bonds, Sosa and McGuires before and after pictures, LA was secure in knowing that Green could have never seen a steroid.
Let's see... last year he was "manager of the year" in the AL wasn't he? Now folks are thinking there was something to the stRangers taking 3 of 4 from the Tigers just happening to coincide with Buck's suspension...
Others are wanting Hicks to dump him because it's his fourth year and you know what happened the next year when he was dumped after four with NYY and AzDbacks...
I don't know what the answer is... this team has too much talent to play this poorly... but then, the other team is getting paid to play as well...
Anybody know anything about this Cub pitcher they recalled back up from the minors?...His name is Jae Kuk Ryu and he hails from Choon Chung Do,South Korea...I wonder if Choon Chung Do will become the next breeding grounds for future major leaguers...Anyway,in just two innings of scoreless relief in a non-save situation(Cubs ahead,11-2),Mr. Ryu lowered his ERA from 27.00 to 14.54......
Anybody know anything about this Cub pitcher they recalled back up from the minors?...His name is Jae Kuk Ryu and he hails from Choon Chung Do,South Korea...I wonder if Choon Chung Do will become the next breeding grounds for future major leaguers...Anyway,in just two innings of scoreless relief in a non-save situation(Cubs ahead,11-2),Mr. Ryu lowered his ERA from 27.00 to 14.54......
It must be tough to be a pitching coach these days.
How do you go over scouting reports or say fastball low and away in Korean? japanese?, Spanish?
I don't think they have much trouble with Spanish... besides there's always a catcher or infielder to translate for them... they probably could just hold up signs with the characters on them and the other team wouldn't know... unless they had a Korean or Japanese on their team...
I dont rally know anything about the hotbed of players coming from Choon Chung , But this guy intrigues me. I have seen some highlights, he throws a 'gyroball' which looks like a splitter on steroids and looks like he has amazing stuff, I'd love to see the Sox target him in the offseason
Matsuzaka Daisuke; born September 13, 1980 in Tokyo, Japan) is a right-handed pitcher who plays for the Seibu Lions in Japan's Pacific League.
Matsuzaka graduated from Yokohama High School in Japan in 1998. Matsuzaka became a national hero in 1998 when he pitched Yokohama High School into the Koshien Tournament and dominated the competition like no one before or since. In the quarterfinals of that year's Koshien national high school baseball tournament, he threw 250 pitches in 17 innings against traditional powerhouse P.L. Gakuen. In stifling heat, Matsuzaka pitched a game for the ages, emerging victorious. The very next day, in the final, he threw a no-hitter--the first ever in a final--to win both the tournament and the admiration of the nation. This performance garnered the attention of a great many scouts. After his graduation, he was taken by the Seibu Lions with the first pick of the 1998 draft.
In his first professional season (1999), he had 16 wins and 5 losses as the team ace, and was voted Rookie of the Year. In 2003, Matsuzaka logged 16 wins and 7 losses. He won the Pacific League ERA title with a 2.83 mark. Matsuzaka also played for Japan's National Baseball Team, and pitched against South Korea.
His fast ball hits constantly over 90mph, which ranges 90-96, and has good late movement. He also throws a splitter, changeup and slider with almost the same delivery.
Good question,Tom...Actually,I just like that name 'Choon Chung Do'....Some day,I'd like to visit there,maybe ride the train,if for no other reason than to get a t-shirt that says "Do the choo-choo in Choon Chung Do"....
Back to your question,I think it imperative that a field boss surround himself with good people...Especially guys like hitting and pitching coaches...I never even heard of Cub pitching coach,Larry Rothschild until he became the Cubs' pitching coach,so I really don't know that much about him...But I believe there's a lot more to managing pitchers than monitoring pitch counts and working on mechanics...Kerry Wood,for instance,would have a pitch count up to about 500 pitches by the 4th or fth inning in a good number of his starts....And here,you're trying to get 6-7 innings out of the guy...It's no secret that Wood has control problems,but why is he throwing all these nasty hooks to the #8 batter who has one homer and six ribbies?...Especially,when it's clear that he can't find home plate with any one of them...It always seemed to me that the Cub starters(especially Wood) never really had much of a game plan--just get in there and try to strike everybody out with your best 'stuff'....And when you're a starter,and you approach every inning as if you're protecting a one-run lead in the 9th,you can more easily get into a lot of trouble early in ball games,and probably increase your odds of going on the DL...
You look at some of the more successful pitching coaches in the league--Dave Duncan on StLo.,that nervous guy that used to be on Atlanta and Mel Stottlemeyer with the Yanks,they seem to year after year get a lot of quality starts out of there pitchers with less time spent on the DL....I think it has a lot to do with these guys impressing on their pitchers to not try and do too much and to pitch within their abilities...You pitch for the Yankees,just give 'em six innings and four runs or less and they'll make you a 20 game winner...
Anywho,I needs to head out to work,but that's my general view---as good an uneducated guess as any,I s'pose...
Ahhhh jes like me ---Rise and shine bright and early each day at noon
I think it has a lot to do with these guys impressing on their pitchers to not try and do too much and to pitch within their abilities...You pitch for the Yankees,just give 'em six innings and four runs or less and they'll make you a 20 game winner...
Your right on the money with that, one reason the 04 Sox did what they did is because they protected their pitchers well. None of the 5 starters missed a single start that year (pretty amazing accomplishment). When they all started going 7 with regularity was when the team gelled (or is that jelled?) and became a force
They also have great scouting, with a book and videos on every hitter in the league that Varitek especially knows inside and out, from what i hear they have a pretty thorough game plan everyday of the entire approach...which seems to work better that just wingin it....
Well gentlemen (and any lady lurkers) Mstar's Semi Sometimes Almost Amazing Stained Glass Circus of Dreams (and sometimes nightmares) is goin on the road to the far south, way down there for two or three weeks (just in time for hurricane season!).
If I have the opportunity I may check in.
Until then Happy Trails and Good relief pitchin to you
I think those continually successful pitching coaches have a philosophy that they teach... whatever that philosophy might be... and they get ALL of the pitchers to buy into it, and the catchers to call the games accordingly... that's what Leo Mazzone (the Atlanta guy that's now in Baltimore) and Dave Duncan do...
A sound philosophy and great talent will go a long way... as most of you know, the last couple of years here (with Orel and now Connors) the stRangers are going for the 'ground ball' pitching plan... well, duh... given that the freakin' DFW air traffic controllers have declared this area a no fly zone because of all of the balls flying out of the Ballpark...
Anyway... I think that's why they continue to be successful... but the reason I asked was because it just seems that the Cubbies Starters spend an awful lot of time on the DL each year...
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
858
673
1658
1014
Popular Days
Oct 24
38
Aug 12
34
Aug 18
31
Oct 22
29
Top Posters In This Topic
hiway29 858 posts
Rocky 673 posts
mstar1 1,658 posts
Tom Strange 1,014 posts
Popular Days
Oct 24 2007
38 posts
Aug 12 2008
34 posts
Aug 18 2008
31 posts
Oct 22 2006
29 posts
Popular Posts
kimberly
I missed the LLWS. The boy had baseball practice 4-7. Playing in a USSSA tournament this coming weekend. The new season has just started. Can ya'll believe we are in September of the ML baseball s
mstar1
Dont scare me like that Bolsh--the way you posted I wasnt sure if it was a done deal--I had to go check....Im on the fence whether to go for Halliday or not---I'd love to have him but I'd hate to give
hiway29
I love those fan trades where players you don't care about, plus a 'prospect', are offered up for a major player. Yeah, the Jays will jump at that deal.
Posted Images
Tom Strange
That trade they made at the deadline just may be looked back upon as "the deal that sealed it"... of course, they have to play the games but those two players, plus the fact that Boston 'stood pat' and then just got nailed with injuries to key people...
...and I'm thinking now that Sheffield isn't coming back... unless he agrees to play first...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Nah. Its just all that California air ----dude
For me its not that all bad-its disappointing, but I could see it happening even though I didnt want to see it coming , there have been signs building up that i was avoiding--- sort of like when you are in a relationship that you subconsciously know is bound to fail yet you ride it out because---- well----- this is who you are attached to and hope for the best.
But '06 is all but done--its been collapsing for over a month---and what were 'concerns' are now gaping holes in the bow. The ship is not listing but daily tilted a little more upward like the Titanic getting ready to go down....Every time I see a call to the bullpen,
if I listen closely, I can almost hear the band playing "Nearer My God To Thee" on the deck,
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
There are alot of youngsters on this team (5 rookies on the pitching staff alone-plus a few position players at 22 and 23. They'll all be better than average in a year or two, but they lack the maturity to compete consistantly right now on a championship level. The Sox weighed it and didnt want to part with any of them at the trade deadline.
In alot of ways it was a rebuilding year from the start when i look at it now.
I dont know if its possible to rebuild and also win everything at the same time as they were trying to do, a good experiment, but looks pretty much like it will fall short
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Welcome to the life of a stRanger fan starman!
When Edinson Volquez made his start a week or so ago he was the EIGHTH rookie pitcher we'd used this year... and 12th starter...
Just heard that was the first 5 game sweep teh BoSox have suffered since 1954... I don't know if we've suffered any, but if we haven't it's probably only because we haven't played any 5 game series!
Hey... it ain't over til it's over... right?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
HERE'S how one of my favorite and more humorous sox bloggers Jose Melendez wrote it:
MASSACRED
Link to comment
Share on other sites
simonzelotes
One good thing about getting a little older,I guess,is that you appreciate more that there is life outside of baseball...I'm not ready to stick a fork in the Bosox just yet,but this series w/ the Yanks reminded me a little bit of the '69 Cubs...
Of,course,I was only 13 then,and there really wasn't much in life outside of baseball...Oh,I may have had a girlfriend then,but we weren't having sex,so it didn't really count....I remember how good the Cubs were for the first 100 or so games...Four great starting pitchers,a million dollar infield,and some great hitters....In fact,on paper I think they may have been the best team in '69 AND '70....I remember as their ten game lead started dwindling in August and they went to NY for a two-game set with those (goddamn) miracle mets of '69,(whom,I wish would rot like pigs in hell) with only a 2 1/2 game lead...And of course the (sonofabitchin') mets swept the Cubs,and at the end of the last game,the (rat bastard)mets fans were singing something like "Goodby Leo" to Leo Durocher and the Cubs,knowing full well the mother of all swoons was nearly completed for the (shi t tin') Cubs and the (devilish) mets were taking over...
And then there was famed Cubs' announcer,Jack Brickhouse,after the game,...somehow trying to fill in 20 minutes of airtime,all red-faced and nearly teary-eyed...A disappointed on-air persona that at that time I only saw surpassed by Walter Cronkite's "President Kennedy has been shot" announcement....
And,of course,history tells us that those (fo kking) mets went on to win the World series and the Cubs went on to become,well,the '69 Cubs...But I never let any of that bother me--then or now...I mean there's really nothing to get over,just because those (as s hole) mets ripped my living heart out and stomped it death with their sharpened baseball cleats...It's only a game...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
c'mon Simon... don't hold back... tell us how you really feel...
Edited by Tom StrangeLink to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Yea well -after 40 years of being a Red Sox fan Ive learned when and how to keep my heart somewhat protected ---Iive seen it too many times and know when to slowly back away and act disinterested -and not have my innards strewn about and filleted anymore. Done it too many times.
Great writing Simon, ---I wonder how much of these type things formulate who we are when we are young --Its still there for you, the way the 67 Sox captured me and made an "Impossible Dream"-I remember the 69 Cubs-Fergie Jenkins, Kenny Holtzman, The Infield of Santo, Kessinger, Beckett and Banks and Billy Williams in the OF-i was pulling for them, in the days before ESPN, from a distance----and well---- I wont go into black cats and other things--i was merely disappointed -because I liked them--- but they werent my team....I could live with it, I lost 5 bucks on that World Series which was steep for my 14 YO paperboy wallet
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
starman... since your guys are calling it a season can we borrow Schilling?
You can have him back next year...
We are evidently going to need him to beat the D'Rays... sheesh!
Edited by Tom StrangeLink to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
LOL--I suppose they'll keep him around and still try to finagle a wild card spot....
I know anything can happen if (BIG IF) they make it in but honestly looking at them they re really not built to go deep in the playoffs. Seems a shame to waste these big years by Manny, Papi and Schilling who have each carried the team at various points through the year and not put the rest of the pieces in place.
What're you goin t'do?
Sure---- I'll put in a good word with Theo for you
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Tell him that he can have either Barajas or Laird... either will do a great job for you...
...how the heck did Shaun Green make it through waivers? Is he having that bad of a year? How'd he make it to the Mets?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stayed Too Long
Looking at the standings this could be shaping up to be another "Subway Series" as both the Mets and Yanks have .610 pct. With about 40 games left anything could happen though as injuries could have an impact. Detroit is looking pretty good in the Central Division with .640 pct though.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
Shaun Green is having an ok year, but he hasn't been an impact player for a few years. He hit 49 home runs for the Dodgers when they first got him, which is amazing in Dodger Stadium, but his numbers went progressively lower the next couple of years. It almost got to be a given that he would kill a rally by grounding into a double play.
He's done better for the Diamondbacks, and may be a good pick up for the Mets. He's a good guy and good player, that could have been better.
When the steroid issue first went through the roof and people started looking at Bonds, Sosa and McGuires before and after pictures, LA was secure in knowing that Green could have never seen a steroid.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Oops-I saw Grady pulling a Grady yesterday-it brought back a lot of memories...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Let's see... last year he was "manager of the year" in the AL wasn't he? Now folks are thinking there was something to the stRangers taking 3 of 4 from the Tigers just happening to coincide with Buck's suspension...
Others are wanting Hicks to dump him because it's his fourth year and you know what happened the next year when he was dumped after four with NYY and AzDbacks...
I don't know what the answer is... this team has too much talent to play this poorly... but then, the other team is getting paid to play as well...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
simonzelotes
Anybody know anything about this Cub pitcher they recalled back up from the minors?...His name is Jae Kuk Ryu and he hails from Choon Chung Do,South Korea...I wonder if Choon Chung Do will become the next breeding grounds for future major leaguers...Anyway,in just two innings of scoreless relief in a non-save situation(Cubs ahead,11-2),Mr. Ryu lowered his ERA from 27.00 to 14.54......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
It must be tough to be a pitching coach these days.
How do you go over scouting reports or say fastball low and away in Korean? japanese?, Spanish?
My coach was barely understandable in English
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
I don't think they have much trouble with Spanish... besides there's always a catcher or infielder to translate for them... they probably could just hold up signs with the characters on them and the other team wouldn't know... unless they had a Korean or Japanese on their team...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
I dont rally know anything about the hotbed of players coming from Choon Chung , But this guy intrigues me. I have seen some highlights, he throws a 'gyroball' which looks like a splitter on steroids and looks like he has amazing stuff, I'd love to see the Sox target him in the offseason
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
He pitches for the cubbies? ...I'm not even going to bother checking on him then... Dusty will probably ruin him before the end of the season...
...or is it the pitching coach/program that kills all of their pitchers?
What think the Cubbie faithful Simon?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
simonzelotes
Good question,Tom...Actually,I just like that name 'Choon Chung Do'....Some day,I'd like to visit there,maybe ride the train,if for no other reason than to get a t-shirt that says "Do the choo-choo in Choon Chung Do"....
Back to your question,I think it imperative that a field boss surround himself with good people...Especially guys like hitting and pitching coaches...I never even heard of Cub pitching coach,Larry Rothschild until he became the Cubs' pitching coach,so I really don't know that much about him...But I believe there's a lot more to managing pitchers than monitoring pitch counts and working on mechanics...Kerry Wood,for instance,would have a pitch count up to about 500 pitches by the 4th or fth inning in a good number of his starts....And here,you're trying to get 6-7 innings out of the guy...It's no secret that Wood has control problems,but why is he throwing all these nasty hooks to the #8 batter who has one homer and six ribbies?...Especially,when it's clear that he can't find home plate with any one of them...It always seemed to me that the Cub starters(especially Wood) never really had much of a game plan--just get in there and try to strike everybody out with your best 'stuff'....And when you're a starter,and you approach every inning as if you're protecting a one-run lead in the 9th,you can more easily get into a lot of trouble early in ball games,and probably increase your odds of going on the DL...
You look at some of the more successful pitching coaches in the league--Dave Duncan on StLo.,that nervous guy that used to be on Atlanta and Mel Stottlemeyer with the Yanks,they seem to year after year get a lot of quality starts out of there pitchers with less time spent on the DL....I think it has a lot to do with these guys impressing on their pitchers to not try and do too much and to pitch within their abilities...You pitch for the Yankees,just give 'em six innings and four runs or less and they'll make you a 20 game winner...
Anywho,I needs to head out to work,but that's my general view---as good an uneducated guess as any,I s'pose...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Your right on the money with that, one reason the 04 Sox did what they did is because they protected their pitchers well. None of the 5 starters missed a single start that year (pretty amazing accomplishment). When they all started going 7 with regularity was when the team gelled (or is that jelled?) and became a force
They also have great scouting, with a book and videos on every hitter in the league that Varitek especially knows inside and out, from what i hear they have a pretty thorough game plan everyday of the entire approach...which seems to work better that just wingin it....
Edited by mstar1Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Well gentlemen (and any lady lurkers) Mstar's Semi Sometimes Almost Amazing Stained Glass Circus of Dreams (and sometimes nightmares) is goin on the road to the far south, way down there for two or three weeks (just in time for hurricane season!).
If I have the opportunity I may check in.
Until then Happy Trails and Good relief pitchin to you
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Safe travels starman...
I think those continually successful pitching coaches have a philosophy that they teach... whatever that philosophy might be... and they get ALL of the pitchers to buy into it, and the catchers to call the games accordingly... that's what Leo Mazzone (the Atlanta guy that's now in Baltimore) and Dave Duncan do...
A sound philosophy and great talent will go a long way... as most of you know, the last couple of years here (with Orel and now Connors) the stRangers are going for the 'ground ball' pitching plan... well, duh... given that the freakin' DFW air traffic controllers have declared this area a no fly zone because of all of the balls flying out of the Ballpark...
Anyway... I think that's why they continue to be successful... but the reason I asked was because it just seems that the Cubbies Starters spend an awful lot of time on the DL each year...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.