I remember being at a teaching by VPW in which he put down Billy Graham & Billy Bright in one fell swoop ("to hell with em") In reference to their rightly dividing of Romans l3..
Was that the sns tape 801? "The Way of Death or Life"? -->
I was there at hdqtrs the night that was taught, and have that tape (somewhere) here. Docvic got so "righteous" at the end of it -- he actually knocked his bible of the teaching lecturn and onto the floor.
And as far as Billy Graham goes -- I have nothing but respect for him.
He has done much to further the *kingdom of Christ*. I don't agree with all of his doctrine, but the veracity of his words and purity of his life speaks volumes.
I think that Billy Graham has done so much for so many. Maybe Dr. W. was simply just jealous of Billy's accomplishments. Our family went to see Billy a few years ago. I thought that it was a privilege.
I also remember Veepee's "way of life or death" teaching. I believe that this is another example of wierwille's extreme insecurity. The holy grifter from the cornfield was green with envy that Billy G was so respected and well known, while he was relegated to the position of "obscure cult leader". To be called in as an advisor by the president of the United States...to be able to fill Shea stadium or address millions on TV...grifter Vic would have sold every person in the WOW program into white slavery in exchange for the position that Billy G held.
In truth, Billy is a great example of a successful preacher. As Mark said, no scandals...that alone was remarkable. From a historical point of view, Billy G will go down as one of the great evangelists, reaching millions and millions. His example of faith is an inspiration for all those seeking the same.
I had heard all the stuff VP said about him; besides that tape 'the way of life and death' I heard VP say BG didn't stick up for Anita Bryant the way VP thought he should have (1978) and then at Living Victoriously VP said BG didn't have any more guts than a dead ant. I heard all that, but I was impressed by a newspaper column I read by BG. He was answering questions by mail similar to Dear Abby and this person wrote him a letter about something going on in their life and I can't remember the subject matter of it but I remember thinking to myself "This person's dealing with devil spirits big time!" But BGs answer was comforting and reassuring and even then as a 'good wayfer', I could see that just maybe it isn't a good idea to tell people they're possessed when you're ministering to them even if they really are. Duh!
I don't know much about his doctrine or what character flaws he may have, but he isn't this respected for nothing.
I think Billy Graham had marketing savvy. He produced a user friendly gospel that appealed to a large core audience. He was handsome and had no problem using his face to prsent his product using mass media techniques. Then there was the "moment of decision" ...the altar call.
Nicely wrapped...neat...tied up with ribbons and bows...style over substance. This will always win with the American consumer.
I think that he has been such an example of how a christian leader should be. He has never been under any scrutiny of any scandals. It could have beene easy for him to succumb given that he could have wielded power to think he could get away with anything. But he didn't. He definitely is a true christian leader!!!!
I had heard vpw state numerous times billy graham had known the rightly divided word and how they chose to go their own route because of the power. Didn't he state something about how he knew him personally or was that someone else? I wonder if they really had known each other personally. I very much doubt it.
I heard once that from the beginning of his ministry, he made it his policy never to be alone in the same room with a woman other than his wife. VP would have been well served to follow Billy's lead if he was truly interested in ministering in a godly way.
Billy Graham went to the same elementary school I did, about 35 years ahead of me, and his ministery headquarters is here, so I might be a bit prejudiced. The big difference I see is that Billy Graham never tried to start his own ministry or his own denomination or run his own fellowships. He sees his mission as bringing the gospel to as many people as possible and then letting them find their own way to a local church of their choice.
His crusades are filled with volunteers from all denominations to help people who might be looking for a church after the altar call.
Another big difference is that I can go to billygraham.org and download a 25-page report that shows what the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association does with all the donations that they receive. I can see that they took in $85,000,000 in fiscal 2003, and there's an accounting of where every nickel went. Of course, I can't tell you if its all accurate, but try getting something like that from our friends in New Knoxville.
Billy Graham could have profited big time from all the money he takes in, but he's never done that. He lives comfortably, and has a nice house in Montreat, NC but its no mansion. I'm sure Jerry Falwell or Oral Roberts have something much nicer.
The story about him never being alone with a woman that's not his wife is true. Apparently, he won't even get on an elevator by himself if there's a woman alone in it.
He asks people to go to church. To pray, to know other folks love them and care about their life. He has testimony personal testimony on what God has done for His people.
I agree it is a mutimillion dollar "show" so what?
People like shows and are attracted to it, for what end ? to have the gospel and good news proclaimed?
It is a good thing, I believe he alone has helped many many people by leading them to God, which is a good thing in my book.
the fact the ministry has avoided scandal is outstanding in these days and times . I believe he has a gift ministry of an evangelist and by far has answered his calling from God and met his talents in serving Him. I am proud to call him a brother in Christand he is on my list of must meets in the kingdom one day. Praise God.
I had heard vpw state numerous times billy graham had known the rightly divided word and how they chose to go their own route because of the power. Didn't he state something about how he knew him personally or was that someone else? I wonder if they really had known each other personally.
I heard him VP tell storys of Billy Graham also. I also heard as you did that they knew each other too. I can't remember if I ever heard vp say that or not.
VPW twisted evrything for his reasons and personal gain.
Billy Graham is a true man of God. He not only talks the talk he truly walks the walk.
If I gave every last cent I had to BG I know that it would go to further the Kingdom of God. If I gave it to the Way I would only get a comment of why not more, and then it would go to make someone else richer.
When I saw the title this thread I mistook it at first as a plea to pray for Billy Graham, and momentarily thought he might be on his deathbed. I heard a few weeks ago that Jimmy Swaggert wasn't doing too well either.
And old Dr. Gene Scott passed away this year, and then the Pope.
It's interesting to consider that the old generation of preachers/teachers/evangelists/holy men are slowly fading away.
YES!! DMiller & others..I too was there for the "Way of Life or Death"teaching as VPW was banging away at the podium all thru it..comically the round brass hanging "plate" on the poium was knocked off its hinges & fell to the floor & I think right after that happened he (VPW) threw his edition of the WAY Bible into the 5th or 6th row, as I remember it going over my head in row 2 or 3!! LOL... About the most charasmatic I'd ever witnessed him to be...trying to get everyone to believe that Romans l3 was REALLY about the "powers that be in the church (Ie..Wayville OH)" Instead of civil authorities..a night I'll long remember for a 22 year old young buck!! LOL
The story about him never being alone with a woman that's not his wife is true. Apparently, he won't even get on an elevator by himself if there's a woman alone in it.
Nice post Pirate, thanks! :)-->
And as pertains to the quote above, I've also heard that he mandated that no man could ever counsel a woman, or vice versa -- but those with problems and seeking help were always counseled by a person of the same sex.
I don't know that for a fact, but it follows that he would expect his *team's* propriety to follow his example.
My wife and her family have spoken volumes to me about respecting Billy Graham, and others as well, who preach Jesus Christ and His message of salvation and love. There were some things they found hard to understand regarding B.G.'s trip to the U.S.S.R. 25 years or so ago. On the other hand, I think there are lots more things my wife has found hard to understand about me during the last 20 years (minus eleven days), yet she puts up with me.
Anyway, it is his message that rings. When he cam to town in a 1987 crusade, my wife (and her aunt, who was with us then) insisted on going, and we did; my wife carrying an extra load at the time.
I guess the main idea IS not to focus on who is doing the preaching or teaching, but the message. So many people delight in picking apart everyone who preaches or teaches the Bible, especiall if they (Good Lord) do it on radio or television. Sure, they are right a lot of times, but it seems to me they ignore the message. I myself think Billy Graham, along with some others, have done (and do) a pretty good job on the message.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
well this a simple reply from a simple person but i believe tha dr.ghram led many people to Christ and salvation. peace
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markomalley
He managed to hold firm to his views without being insulting and, to the best of my knowledge, was never implicated in any kind of scandal.
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Jim
Billy Graham - I could care less. At least the Catholics have good church music.
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dmiller
Was that the sns tape 801? "The Way of Death or Life"?
-->
I was there at hdqtrs the night that was taught, and have that tape (somewhere) here. Docvic got so "righteous" at the end of it -- he actually knocked his bible of the teaching lecturn and onto the floor.
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dmiller
And as far as Billy Graham goes -- I have nothing but respect for him.
He has done much to further the *kingdom of Christ*. I don't agree with all of his doctrine, but the veracity of his words and purity of his life speaks volumes.
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gladtobeout
I think that Billy Graham has done so much for so many. Maybe Dr. W. was simply just jealous of Billy's accomplishments. Our family went to see Billy a few years ago. I thought that it was a privilege.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I also remember Veepee's "way of life or death" teaching. I believe that this is another example of wierwille's extreme insecurity. The holy grifter from the cornfield was green with envy that Billy G was so respected and well known, while he was relegated to the position of "obscure cult leader". To be called in as an advisor by the president of the United States...to be able to fill Shea stadium or address millions on TV...grifter Vic would have sold every person in the WOW program into white slavery in exchange for the position that Billy G held.
In truth, Billy is a great example of a successful preacher. As Mark said, no scandals...that alone was remarkable. From a historical point of view, Billy G will go down as one of the great evangelists, reaching millions and millions. His example of faith is an inspiration for all those seeking the same.
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justloafing
Groucho, I think you just made the earth move in ohio. I think it was vp turning over in his grave.
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Radar OReilly
Has anyone read the book written by his daughter, Katharine Graham? It is called JUST GIVE ME JESUS, and it is GREAT.
ror
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johniam
I had heard all the stuff VP said about him; besides that tape 'the way of life and death' I heard VP say BG didn't stick up for Anita Bryant the way VP thought he should have (1978) and then at Living Victoriously VP said BG didn't have any more guts than a dead ant. I heard all that, but I was impressed by a newspaper column I read by BG. He was answering questions by mail similar to Dear Abby and this person wrote him a letter about something going on in their life and I can't remember the subject matter of it but I remember thinking to myself "This person's dealing with devil spirits big time!" But BGs answer was comforting and reassuring and even then as a 'good wayfer', I could see that just maybe it isn't a good idea to tell people they're possessed when you're ministering to them even if they really are. Duh!
I don't know much about his doctrine or what character flaws he may have, but he isn't this respected for nothing.
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Yanagisawa
I think Billy Graham had marketing savvy. He produced a user friendly gospel that appealed to a large core audience. He was handsome and had no problem using his face to prsent his product using mass media techniques. Then there was the "moment of decision" ...the altar call.
Nicely wrapped...neat...tied up with ribbons and bows...style over substance. This will always win with the American consumer.
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vickles
You thought he was handsome?...
I think that he has been such an example of how a christian leader should be. He has never been under any scrutiny of any scandals. It could have beene easy for him to succumb given that he could have wielded power to think he could get away with anything. But he didn't. He definitely is a true christian leader!!!!
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vickles
I had heard vpw state numerous times billy graham had known the rightly divided word and how they chose to go their own route because of the power. Didn't he state something about how he knew him personally or was that someone else? I wonder if they really had known each other personally. I very much doubt it.
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oenophile
I heard once that from the beginning of his ministry, he made it his policy never to be alone in the same room with a woman other than his wife. VP would have been well served to follow Billy's lead if he was truly interested in ministering in a godly way.
But alas...
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Pirate1974
Billy Graham went to the same elementary school I did, about 35 years ahead of me, and his ministery headquarters is here, so I might be a bit prejudiced. The big difference I see is that Billy Graham never tried to start his own ministry or his own denomination or run his own fellowships. He sees his mission as bringing the gospel to as many people as possible and then letting them find their own way to a local church of their choice.
His crusades are filled with volunteers from all denominations to help people who might be looking for a church after the altar call.
Another big difference is that I can go to billygraham.org and download a 25-page report that shows what the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association does with all the donations that they receive. I can see that they took in $85,000,000 in fiscal 2003, and there's an accounting of where every nickel went. Of course, I can't tell you if its all accurate, but try getting something like that from our friends in New Knoxville.
Billy Graham could have profited big time from all the money he takes in, but he's never done that. He lives comfortably, and has a nice house in Montreat, NC but its no mansion. I'm sure Jerry Falwell or Oral Roberts have something much nicer.
The story about him never being alone with a woman that's not his wife is true. Apparently, he won't even get on an elevator by himself if there's a woman alone in it.
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mj412
BG has his show every year at Easter.
he asks people to accept Jesus Christ as Lord.
He asks people to go to church. To pray, to know other folks love them and care about their life. He has testimony personal testimony on what God has done for His people.
I agree it is a mutimillion dollar "show" so what?
People like shows and are attracted to it, for what end ? to have the gospel and good news proclaimed?
It is a good thing, I believe he alone has helped many many people by leading them to God, which is a good thing in my book.
the fact the ministry has avoided scandal is outstanding in these days and times . I believe he has a gift ministry of an evangelist and by far has answered his calling from God and met his talents in serving Him. I am proud to call him a brother in Christand he is on my list of must meets in the kingdom one day. Praise God.
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Pirate1974
I undertand that Billy was quite the ladies' man in his younger days, before he got "the call" and gave all that up.
He also used to drag race on Park Road, a major four-lane highway today, but a dirt farm road in the 1930s.
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justloafing
I heard him VP tell storys of Billy Graham also. I also heard as you did that they knew each other too. I can't remember if I ever heard vp say that or not.
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ex70sHouston
Lets not even compare VPW and Billy Graham.
VPW twisted evrything for his reasons and personal gain.
Billy Graham is a true man of God. He not only talks the talk he truly walks the walk.
If I gave every last cent I had to BG I know that it would go to further the Kingdom of God. If I gave it to the Way I would only get a comment of why not more, and then it would go to make someone else richer.
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TheInvisibleDan
When I saw the title this thread I mistook it at first as a plea to pray for Billy Graham, and momentarily thought he might be on his deathbed. I heard a few weeks ago that Jimmy Swaggert wasn't doing too well either.
And old Dr. Gene Scott passed away this year, and then the Pope.
It's interesting to consider that the old generation of preachers/teachers/evangelists/holy men are slowly fading away.
Danny
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Second James
YES!! DMiller & others..I too was there for the "Way of Life or Death"teaching as VPW was banging away at the podium all thru it..comically the round brass hanging "plate" on the poium was knocked off its hinges & fell to the floor & I think right after that happened he (VPW) threw his edition of the WAY Bible into the 5th or 6th row, as I remember it going over my head in row 2 or 3!! LOL... About the most charasmatic I'd ever witnessed him to be...trying to get everyone to believe that Romans l3 was REALLY about the "powers that be in the church (Ie..Wayville OH)" Instead of civil authorities..a night I'll long remember for a 22 year old young buck!! LOL
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
wow what a reply ex 70's my hat is iff to you bg imo is perhaps the greatest evangilist since Christ
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dmiller
Nice post Pirate, thanks!
:)-->
And as pertains to the quote above, I've also heard that he mandated that no man could ever counsel a woman, or vice versa -- but those with problems and seeking help were always counseled by a person of the same sex.
I don't know that for a fact, but it follows that he would expect his *team's* propriety to follow his example.
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Lifted Up
My wife and her family have spoken volumes to me about respecting Billy Graham, and others as well, who preach Jesus Christ and His message of salvation and love. There were some things they found hard to understand regarding B.G.'s trip to the U.S.S.R. 25 years or so ago. On the other hand, I think there are lots more things my wife has found hard to understand about me during the last 20 years (minus eleven days), yet she puts up with me.
Anyway, it is his message that rings. When he cam to town in a 1987 crusade, my wife (and her aunt, who was with us then) insisted on going, and we did; my wife carrying an extra load at the time.
I guess the main idea IS not to focus on who is doing the preaching or teaching, but the message. So many people delight in picking apart everyone who preaches or teaches the Bible, especiall if they (Good Lord) do it on radio or television. Sure, they are right a lot of times, but it seems to me they ignore the message. I myself think Billy Graham, along with some others, have done (and do) a pretty good job on the message.
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