The reason there is no new "news" is because there is no new "news". Those predicting TWI's imminent demise were premature. Those who shout about declining numbers use information that is outdated by at least the number of years they have been out of TWI.
And to add to what Diazbro said, may I also say that very many folks left in 1986 -'87, and the reverberations felt within the *ministry* would be compararable to a 9.0 earthquake (on the Richter scale), from which they have never recovered, nor will they ever.
You may claim numbers are up, but up from what?? -->
Up from the low that twi has reached, since a lot of us left, and never looked back? A *last gasp* before they expire entirely? Oh -- and the *imminent demise* is already in progress, and has been so for 2 decades now -- perhaps numbers are up from that, as well?
You can think what you wish, and I wish you God speed in doing so, cause it is a free country. Every rag-tag outfit anywhere on this, God's green earth, will find followers somewhere to believe what they are saying, and I suppose twi will too, but the more they *preach*, the less they have in membership.
If you want a real eye-opener --- CES (I'm thinking) is now bigger than twi, and they teach a lot of the same stuff, minus the legalism. :)-->
The Word of God is worth pursuing -- but not by hanging onto outfits that are promoting themselves instead. If you don't want to move on, don't. But IMHO -- it would be *best* for you, if you did. :)-->
TWI doesn't require micro-reporting of our whereabouts, so there is no news on that issue, either.
When I was in, I would not have admitted that what TWI was requiring was micromanaging either, yet it was.
quote:
We are encouraged to tithe, but not badgered to do wo, so, no news there, either.
When I was in, I rationalized away the badgering too
quote:
New members continue to appear at my fellowship, none have left - that's not news, either, I guess.
We would have new memebers (MEMBERS???)
quote:
Outreach activtivies are available, but not mandatory.
I used to think so too
quote:
Most in my fellowhsip are responsible citizens, hold real jobs - tradesmen, professionals, etc.
When I left our fellowship had the following professions: Independent business owner/part owner of a farm; paralegal; railroad worker; nurse; insurance salesman; waitress; sales rep; several staff members at a catering firm; dry waller; auto mechanic; stay-at-home mom; plumber, etc. So what?
quote:
We make fellowship as oft as possible, miss when we must. Some have work schedules that make attendance at all functions impossilbe. Leadership is atuned to this and respects our individual needs - no pressure to be there at all functions.
-->
quote:
ABS is offered as an opportunity - not an obligation.
So, they've rejected everything they've ever taught, huh?
When Waydale emerged and then Greasespot...a lot of people became informed. The lawsuits and all the other accusations has forced twi into a defensive posture. I'm sure they are minding their P's and Q's and trying to avoid any more bad publicity. My guess is that they have "softened" the way in which they treat their followers. Maybe they are finally figuring out that all the heavy handed tactics are counterproductive. In any case, twi still teaches wrong doctrine and leads people into mental bondage.
In some ways they are smartening up. As Wierwille was as bad as Martindale in many respects, (he hid it better, and was much better at P.R.) Rivenbark & Co. are trying to keep a lower profile, I believe that RFR running things while not being the public face has less to do with her excruciating teaching style than with the decision to no longer focus all the attention on one individual.
I have been out for about 4 years now. Was in for 15.
No offense to anyone, but why do you have to come and announce that you are leaving?
I used to be here daily, hourly sometimes. Now-a-days, I come here very occasionally. Even if I decided to never come back, I wouldn't post it.
CC, you are a wonderful person (at least as far as I can tell). But it really seems more like a put down to those who choose to stay because you no longer find value.
Everyone that decides to permanently log-off, I wish you all the best. The contributions everyone makes are of great value. Just leave quietly when you go. Besides, you may change your mind!
LLP works too hard trying to convince us twi is so great. I acted like that when I was still in too. I would have defended it to the end. Why does she care what people here think anyway?
I just joined, or was accepted, as you can tell. I've been out of TWI for over 20 years and from the look of it, missed the moments of rude awakening, which I saw long before.
I have started searching TWI info, because I plan to join a Christian church and needed to clarify some mind-control that was still haunting me from TWI.
About any 'net site, they peak at one time, then begin to fall...that's life. But never fear signals has entered the building...unfortunately I have a lot to say about TWI.
I look forward to reading more about you. I see you posted in the My Story section. Sounds like you had one of the more common WOW experiences. I'm glad you were strong enough to insist on getting out of it.
To all: Re: the MN case, I have reached no reconcilliation. I don't justify that for which he is convicted. So do (should) all catholics renouce their faith as a result of Cardinal Law's flaws? I won't answer. You supply your own.
If guilty as charged and convicted, then, MN's actions are definitly a blemish on the TWI ministry. Does revelation that it isn't divinely perfect diminish my recognition of TWI's positive benifits in my life? No, not at all. TWI is a worldely entity, open to worldy infulences and weaknesses, not only from field ministers, but from HQ staff. No transgression by MN or some other would surprise me or deter me from my chosen track.
FWIW, I condemn the alledged activites for which MN was charged/convicted. If guilty, he should pay for his transgressions per the terms of the laws of our land.
The above does not affect my view or support of TWI, FWIW.
Food for thought: Are you financially stable? Then you will see the true benefits of TWI. If your in it and defending it, you're controlled. I hope you come to the realization how devestating it is. But as long as you have a good paying job, the Way is your oyster.
Signals, 70 posts (so far) is a lot of posts for such a short period of time. It appears I'm tardy with this. Please don't reflect the poor service on my tip.
Wasn't the issue with MN TWI's SUPPORT OF HIM? What does that have anything to do with renouncing one's faith? Faith and support of an organization should be two different things, no?
I have never heard of TWI being refered to as a "worldly entity." It has always been God's household, most perfect thing on earth. If it is a worldly entity, then how is faith associated with supporting it both with your money and time?
quote:
If guilty, he should pay for his transgressions per the terms of the laws of our land.
Huh? IF? He was tried and CONVICTED. There is no if anymore. He did it and is paying for it. AND TWI STILL SUPPORTS HIM!
I don't know what to think of people like you. I know a little girl who was attacked just last fall at a branch meeting. TWI tried their same COVER OUR foot job on it. The mother still supports TWI. It's DISGUSTING!
I think signal hit the nail on the head. You have a good income, as you have boasted of before, and TWI treats you with kid gloves. They won't do anything to interupt their revenue stream from you. And you take the GREEDY foot view of, as long as it hasn't happened to me.... These must be your benifits you claimed earlier, getting off being treated like something special.
Seen it too many times. You're not special, you just have something they want....MONEY!
Unfortunately, your money is paying for tomorrow's abuses.
The previous 2 law suits dealt with LCM's abuse of women. The people currently in litigation with TWI feel that their ABS was used wrongly for many years (among other things) and want their money back.
more mindless blather from the head-in-the-clouds llp...
you are so naive sounding, after ALL this time at GSC, to appear as disingenuous, llp. I just do not believe your everything is hunky-dory line, llp. WHY do you REALLY post here if you are so g-d happy and satisfied??? Your whole story is fishy and ALWAYS has been...
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And to add to what Diazbro said, may I also say that very many folks left in 1986 -'87, and the reverberations felt within the *ministry* would be compararable to a 9.0 earthquake (on the Richter scale), from which they have never recovered, nor will they ever.
You may claim numbers are up, but up from what??
-->
Up from the low that twi has reached, since a lot of us left, and never looked back? A *last gasp* before they expire entirely? Oh -- and the *imminent demise* is already in progress, and has been so for 2 decades now -- perhaps numbers are up from that, as well?
You can think what you wish, and I wish you God speed in doing so, cause it is a free country. Every rag-tag outfit anywhere on this, God's green earth, will find followers somewhere to believe what they are saying, and I suppose twi will too, but the more they *preach*, the less they have in membership.
If you want a real eye-opener --- CES (I'm thinking) is now bigger than twi, and they teach a lot of the same stuff, minus the legalism.
:)-->
The Word of God is worth pursuing -- but not by hanging onto outfits that are promoting themselves instead. If you don't want to move on, don't. But IMHO -- it would be *best* for you, if you did.
:)-->
David
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Scout Finch
David said:
and I bet they have less than 1% of the number of staff that TWI has.
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Oakspear
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GrouchoMarxJr
When Waydale emerged and then Greasespot...a lot of people became informed. The lawsuits and all the other accusations has forced twi into a defensive posture. I'm sure they are minding their P's and Q's and trying to avoid any more bad publicity. My guess is that they have "softened" the way in which they treat their followers. Maybe they are finally figuring out that all the heavy handed tactics are counterproductive. In any case, twi still teaches wrong doctrine and leads people into mental bondage.
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Oakspear
In some ways they are smartening up. As Wierwille was as bad as Martindale in many respects, (he hid it better, and was much better at P.R.) Rivenbark & Co. are trying to keep a lower profile, I believe that RFR running things while not being the public face has less to do with her excruciating teaching style than with the decision to no longer focus all the attention on one individual.
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LuckyGirl
I have been out for about 4 years now. Was in for 15.
No offense to anyone, but why do you have to come and announce that you are leaving?
I used to be here daily, hourly sometimes. Now-a-days, I come here very occasionally. Even if I decided to never come back, I wouldn't post it.
CC, you are a wonderful person (at least as far as I can tell). But it really seems more like a put down to those who choose to stay because you no longer find value.
Everyone that decides to permanently log-off, I wish you all the best. The contributions everyone makes are of great value. Just leave quietly when you go. Besides, you may change your mind!
LLP works too hard trying to convince us twi is so great. I acted like that when I was still in too. I would have defended it to the end. Why does she care what people here think anyway?
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outandabout
I'm so glad to hear TWI is so wonderful now.
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excathedra
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signals
I just joined, or was accepted, as you can tell. I've been out of TWI for over 20 years and from the look of it, missed the moments of rude awakening, which I saw long before.
I have started searching TWI info, because I plan to join a Christian church and needed to clarify some mind-control that was still haunting me from TWI.
About any 'net site, they peak at one time, then begin to fall...that's life. But never fear signals has entered the building...unfortunately I have a lot to say about TWI.
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dmiller
Fortunately, we are here to listen. Say on!
;)-->
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WordWolf
Hello, signals.
Fear not-this site goes thru cycles. A lot of sites are quiet now,
and this one will get busy again soon enough.
Apparently, you missed out on the entire lcm and rfr eras (to date,
anyway), so you missed the lawsuits and so many other things.
We've discussed them all and they're around here somewhere.
:)-->
The main site for the GSC has some editorials, and documents and
articles. I strongly recommend reading them all over the coming
months if you want to really get information. These also include
audio clips of things like saying someone died because a family member
left twi.
You'll notice this is about as egalitarian a place as you can find on
the internet. Whereas some things would get you banned or suspended
on other places, Pawtucket allows for a free exchange of ideas.
As a result, you'll see things you don't normally see in one place.
You'll see people who think vpw is STILL the greatest man since the
apostle Paul if not greater than Paul. You'll see people who believe
all religion is slavery and superstition. You'll see people who think
pfal is still the greatest class of all time. You'll see people who've
worked behind the scenes on staff. You'll see people who blindly
defended twi, and some who still do. You'll see people whose lives
were destroyed by vpw, lcm, rfr or others-PERSONALLY. You'll see
people who wish vpw was alive today so he could be thrown in prison
and sodomized. You'll see people who think that's too lenient.
You'll see people who've put it all behind them, people who are still
in twi, and people trying to figure out what happened to themselves.
You'll even see some never-been-twi, here for their own reasons.
Paw welcomes them all, sorta.
Good manners are always appreciated, staying on topic is always
appreciated, but neither is the rule or even common here.
Raf will be along soon to offer you some coffee.
:)-->
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Belle
Glad to have you here, signals!
-->
I look forward to reading more about you. I see you posted in the My Story section. Sounds like you had one of the more common WOW experiences. I'm glad you were strong enough to insist on getting out of it.
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LowlyLollyPoppy
To all: Re: the MN case, I have reached no reconcilliation. I don't justify that for which he is convicted. So do (should) all catholics renouce their faith as a result of Cardinal Law's flaws? I won't answer. You supply your own.
If guilty as charged and convicted, then, MN's actions are definitly a blemish on the TWI ministry. Does revelation that it isn't divinely perfect diminish my recognition of TWI's positive benifits in my life? No, not at all. TWI is a worldely entity, open to worldy infulences and weaknesses, not only from field ministers, but from HQ staff. No transgression by MN or some other would surprise me or deter me from my chosen track.
FWIW, I condemn the alledged activites for which MN was charged/convicted. If guilty, he should pay for his transgressions per the terms of the laws of our land.
The above does not affect my view or support of TWI, FWIW.
Caruso
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signals
Food for thought: Are you financially stable? Then you will see the true benefits of TWI. If your in it and defending it, you're controlled. I hope you come to the realization how devestating it is. But as long as you have a good paying job, the Way is your oyster.
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Raf
Signals, 70 posts (so far) is a lot of posts for such a short period of time. It appears I'm tardy with this. Please don't reflect the poor service on my tip.
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signals
Thanks for the coffee, Raf! Like I said in another post, I've landed and got a lot to say!
Please delete all the posts involving nervie, and I have about 40 posts!
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signals
And here's something for you:
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Raf
I'm trying to figure out if I've been insulted or not.
I don't know. "Accurately described" and "insulted" are often synonymous...
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Raf
But hell, it's a free drink. I'll down it and worry about the commentary later.
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Ham
It may be an allusion to the "if Raf was the Devil" thread..
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Ham
Sorry for my lack of manners. Welcome, Signals.
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Bob
LLP,
I have no idea what you just said.
Wasn't the issue with MN TWI's SUPPORT OF HIM? What does that have anything to do with renouncing one's faith? Faith and support of an organization should be two different things, no?
I have never heard of TWI being refered to as a "worldly entity." It has always been God's household, most perfect thing on earth. If it is a worldly entity, then how is faith associated with supporting it both with your money and time?
Huh? IF? He was tried and CONVICTED. There is no if anymore. He did it and is paying for it. AND TWI STILL SUPPORTS HIM!
I don't know what to think of people like you. I know a little girl who was attacked just last fall at a branch meeting. TWI tried their same COVER OUR foot job on it. The mother still supports TWI. It's DISGUSTING!
I think signal hit the nail on the head. You have a good income, as you have boasted of before, and TWI treats you with kid gloves. They won't do anything to interupt their revenue stream from you. And you take the GREEDY foot view of, as long as it hasn't happened to me.... These must be your benifits you claimed earlier, getting off being treated like something special.
Seen it too many times. You're not special, you just have something they want....MONEY!
Unfortunately, your money is paying for tomorrow's abuses.
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Hope R.
And your ABS is also paying for past abuses.
The previous 2 law suits dealt with LCM's abuse of women. The people currently in litigation with TWI feel that their ABS was used wrongly for many years (among other things) and want their money back.
They're running out of people to abuse...
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alfakat
more mindless blather from the head-in-the-clouds llp...
you are so naive sounding, after ALL this time at GSC, to appear as disingenuous, llp. I just do not believe your everything is hunky-dory line, llp. WHY do you REALLY post here if you are so g-d happy and satisfied??? Your whole story is fishy and ALWAYS has been...
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