Ya know, I was not actually posting this so people could throw eggs at me. There are some people who post on these forums who still respect at least that class. I think it's fine if you have nothing but contempt for it, but I don't think you need to give me a lot of crap about it. The frame alone is very nice.
may I humbly suggest ya just go ahead and putter on ebay and blow off these insults from people who dont value courteousness and still have too much hatred to talk objectively about the old cult.
Lianne
PS- I dont want it, but thought you and many others were nice to go to the trouble to provide this stiff to the people who do care. I just threw my stuff away---but the pictures - I think we even gave the frames away---but that was under the auspicious doctorines of Feng Sui---
No, really! I'd love to find a VPW commemorative shot glass too. Drambuie stains would triple the price. Did the bookstore ever sell replicas of Vic's glass eye? I'm sure they did. WG, got any of those? Now there would be a collectable. Hello, eBAY! I'd list it under the voodoo/evil eye category. Or hooky-pook, maybe. Jeepers creepers, bid on these peepers!
I would like to apologize to you for ever bringing this up. Obviously you now think I'm a target for your nasty sarcastic humor. Go vent your folly elsewhere.
It is about 20 x 26 or so, whatever size a regular poster is, with a narrow gold frame. There is one tiny imperfection in the frame at the top, about the size of a pin head. The poster itself is darkish green. At the top in gold letters it says Power for Abundant Living (centered), in the center is an open Bible, and at the bottom in smaller script is John 10:10b.
If the artwork is good, and it is as you say, I would like it too,
but Galen has a better reason than I for getting it. :)
I have a clock in my living room with the old Gold and Blue WOW AMBASSADOR logo on it.
It looks good regardless of the *negative history* that lies behind the artwork, and I am not ashamed to have it displayed prominently in my living room -- one of the first things one would see, should you visit.
And for all of you out there who can't appreciate the offer being made here ---
Where the H*** were you in your criticism when Catcup put all her tapes up for sale on e-bay,
but mentioned it here first??? HMMMMM?
Just because you aren't interested in old way stuff, doesn't mean that there are none here who are.
So give it up already. Artwork is artwork.
A friend gave me a poster of a pearl in the middle of an oyster shell
And the caption underneath reads:
BELIEVE IN MIRACLES
THEY HAPPEN EACH DAY
Her particular religion was/is far different from mine,
but the essence of the saying
is universal.
I had that framed, and it is also in my living room.
So if you don't like it -- lump it. :)
and Satori -- if I find a shot glass with an eye staring at you from the bottom of the glass,
I'll send it your way.
If nothing else -- it can be a conversation piece for you.
It's about The Way International and it's foundation, the PFAL class, in which lies and distortions were mixed with dubious scriptural interpretation to exploit and control Christian believers.
I don't mind if you sell it. I don't mind if you have fond memories. I don't mind if you liked the class. In fact, I don't mind if you post it here for sale.
I hope you don't mind if the poster reminds me of a decade of bullsh!t, that began with PFAL. Shoot, now I'm all sentimental.
This isn't really sarcasm. It's lame parody, maybe. And it's not directed at you. I have nothing against you. You might ask yourself why a PFAL poster belongs in a frame, unless it's the binding of a dart board, and why you would offer it for sale at the Greasespot Cafe, of all places, as if it were some kind of heirloom, an object of fondness and nostalgia.
It isn't me being unsympathetic, WG. It's you. You forget where you are. Even so, it's not about you. Really.
--
dmiller, art for art's sake? No matter the subject? You don't believe that, do you? Think it over.
Keepsakes of the way experience have varying degrees of appeal to people. For me I think its all pretty much junk but don't have a problem if others want to hold onto whatever - nametags, books, class notes, dove pins. Just don't ask me to share your enthusiasm and all will be well. I dumped my way stuff long ago except for some stuff I haven't been able to find. This happened long before the days of Ebay and if I still had that stuff I would gladly sell it to people who wanted it. One man's junk is another's treasure. Some people are compeltists and really want to collect artifacts from all eras of their lives. I hope that its this which would motivate someone to want to buy Way regalia as opposed to any residual devotion to Way teachings. I had a friend who used to have that picture of VPW sitting and drinking a cup of coffee. Its been many years but I think that is what it had. Anyway there is Vic with this self-satisfied look on his face, with a cup of drambuie (disgusied as coffee). I always thought that pic was creepy as hell. always. It would be even more creepy were I to discover that someone actually wanted to buy it.
...if it promoted the Word (over their ministries), I would be glad to have it here, regardless of who promoted the particular *saying*
Isn't that the root of it?
The title, "Power For Abundant Living," disguised its biblical content to appeal to the human potential movement (or so it might appear), a bible class masquerading as a positive thinking class.
But what was it really? A positive thinking class, masqerading as a bible class, masquerading as a positive thinking class. As many have amply demonstrated, PFAL sent Jesus to the back of the bus. Didn't it? It sure as hell did. VPW was front and center, and the class was our induction to Way World, VP World.
It was positively conditioning, masquerading as positive "believing," a.k.a., positive thinking. Scripture was the vehicle, not the payload.
If slapping John 10:10 at the bottom makes it all real for you, you're easily impressed. Once upon a time, we all were.
It isn't me being unsympathetic, WG. It's you. You forget where you are. Even so, it's not about you. Really.
"You forget where you ARE?"
Where is where we are? Are you are saying that we are at a site that is reserved ONLY for people who believe that The Way was/is evil from beginning to end and want only to speak negatively about it?. This must mean then, that I or anyone who has anything good to say about The Way and any (but maybe not all) of our time spent there, is WRONG and UNSYMPATHETIC? I didn't think that this was this kind of place.
Pawtucket: Is this the kind of place the Grease Spot Cafe is?
Where is where we are? Are you are saying that we are at a site that is reserved ONLY for people who believe that The Way was/is evil from beginning to end and want only to speak negatively about it?
No, Jonny, but it is a place where people with those feelings exist in large number and have no hesitation expressing those feelings. You wouldn't be shocked to go into a bar and find drinking, even though people who don't drink are welcome there, would you?
This has nothing to do with anyone's personal experience during their stay at Way World. Everyone had good experiences from time to time. I did. Even those who got the worst of it probably did.
It has to do with what the ministry represented, and what it did.
I'm compelled to resort to the trusty, if hackneyed, nazi analogy. There were always good Germans, even during WWII, and many of them were caught up in their nation's war. Does their goodness justify the nation's evil? Of course not. Do they invest their memories of friendship, personal courage, honor and so on, in each other, or in nazi memorabilia?
TWI wasn't the Third Reich, of course, but the tired example serves to illustrate my point.
PFAL was the tool of a cult. It was a tightly scripted, scrupulously controlled vehicle for the induction and indoctrination of... us. It didn't happen over night. It was the product of trial and error, and VPW's intuitive understanding of what draws people into a cause.
A PFAL poster can bring back good memories, running classes with people we loved, the fellowship of great "believers," believing what we did was first and foremost the will of God.
But did God really want so many people seeking truth to be so evilly served? Neither of us thinks so. Did God want a bunch of bums, like Vic Wierwille, the trustees, many of the leaders, to take cynical advantage of people who sought and loved Him, like the sons of Eli in the OT? Neither of us thinks so. PFAL was The Way International's principal tool.
Anything good about TWI, we brought it there, and when we left, it left with us. What good we took from it, we might have taken from any other place where the bible was studied and believed by people, and without Vic Wierwille's poison.
So now we've left. Do we still celebrate "PFAL?" I hope not, but if so, we don't get it yet.
I want to appologise for the off the wall comment that I made about your poster that you have for sale.
I was attempting a little humor towards TWI instead of what u had that u wanted to sell.
It wasn't any type fo disrespect towards you. I tend to try to use Humour towards TWI to poke fun at them than to have an innocent person get hurt by what i have said. So i hope u can forgive what i said in my earlier post about the poster u have. I do know that there are some people here at GSC that do collect the artwork that the older TWI produced. I even sold some of the collaterals and the Bullinger hardbound bible from when i was in to one of the posters that post here quite a while back.
And i am still debating if i want to sell some of the rest of the TWI records that i have or just toss them. "PFAL '77" "All Aboard" and "ROA 1976" albums. The only thing is if they would survive the postal system's delivery system.
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Galen
I PM'ed you.
May Our Heavenly Father bless you and keep you.
Galen
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excathedra
i'll pass but galen might be interested ;)
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satori001
Perfect timing! I was just thinking how great it would be to put a class together, for old time's sake.
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danteh1
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Watered Garden
Ya know, I was not actually posting this so people could throw eggs at me. There are some people who post on these forums who still respect at least that class. I think it's fine if you have nothing but contempt for it, but I don't think you need to give me a lot of crap about it. The frame alone is very nice.
So lay, off, okay?
WG
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
I am surprised that Mike and Oldies haven't pm'd you.
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DaddyHoundog
WG -
may I humbly suggest ya just go ahead and putter on ebay and blow off these insults from people who dont value courteousness and still have too much hatred to talk objectively about the old cult.
Lianne
PS- I dont want it, but thought you and many others were nice to go to the trouble to provide this stiff to the people who do care. I just threw my stuff away---but the pictures - I think we even gave the frames away---but that was under the auspicious doctorines of Feng Sui---
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satori001
No, really! I'd love to find a VPW commemorative shot glass too. Drambuie stains would triple the price. Did the bookstore ever sell replicas of Vic's glass eye? I'm sure they did. WG, got any of those? Now there would be a collectable. Hello, eBAY! I'd list it under the voodoo/evil eye category. Or hooky-pook, maybe. Jeepers creepers, bid on these peepers!
Just a thought.
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Watered Garden
Satori you just don't give up, do you?
I would like to apologize to you for ever bringing this up. Obviously you now think I'm a target for your nasty sarcastic humor. Go vent your folly elsewhere.
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2life
Hey!! I told WG I'd love to have it!
I'll even come to her to get it!
Its just a poster............with lots of tales to tell.
WG--- how about some pictures of you and hubby in togas.......(plus frame money etc!!)
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satori001
Boinnnng... Boing, boing... Boing, ba ba, boing, ba-boing, boing, ba-ba-ba boing, boing, boing, ba-boing, ba-boing, ba-boing, bababababababa boinnnnnnnnggggg... Boing, boing... Boing, ba ba, boing, ba-boing, boing, ba-ba-ba boing, boing, boing, ba-boing, ba-boing, ba-boing, bababababababa boinnnnnnnnggggg... Boing, boing... Boing, ba ba, boing, ba-boing, boing, ba-ba-ba boing, boing, boing, ba-boing, ba-boing, ba-boing, bababababababa boinnnnnnnnggggg...
"The sound of two dozen Official, Commemorative V.P. Peepers, rolling off the Way Bookstore display counter, bouncing across the floor."
Just wanted to share that.
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dmiller
If the artwork is good, and it is as you say, I would like it too,
but Galen has a better reason than I for getting it. :)
I have a clock in my living room with the old Gold and Blue WOW AMBASSADOR logo on it.
It looks good regardless of the *negative history* that lies behind the artwork, and I am not ashamed to have it displayed prominently in my living room -- one of the first things one would see, should you visit.
And for all of you out there who can't appreciate the offer being made here ---
Where the H*** were you in your criticism when Catcup put all her tapes up for sale on e-bay,
but mentioned it here first??? HMMMMM?
Just because you aren't interested in old way stuff, doesn't mean that there are none here who are.
So give it up already. Artwork is artwork.
A friend gave me a poster of a pearl in the middle of an oyster shell
And the caption underneath reads:
BELIEVE IN MIRACLES
THEY HAPPEN EACH DAY
Her particular religion was/is far different from mine,
but the essence of the saying
is universal.
I had that framed, and it is also in my living room.
So if you don't like it -- lump it. :)
and Satori -- if I find a shot glass with an eye staring at you from the bottom of the glass,
I'll send it your way.
If nothing else -- it can be a conversation piece for you.
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satori001
WG, it's not about you.
It's about The Way International and it's foundation, the PFAL class, in which lies and distortions were mixed with dubious scriptural interpretation to exploit and control Christian believers.
I don't mind if you sell it. I don't mind if you have fond memories. I don't mind if you liked the class. In fact, I don't mind if you post it here for sale.
I hope you don't mind if the poster reminds me of a decade of bullsh!t, that began with PFAL. Shoot, now I'm all sentimental.
This isn't really sarcasm. It's lame parody, maybe. And it's not directed at you. I have nothing against you. You might ask yourself why a PFAL poster belongs in a frame, unless it's the binding of a dart board, and why you would offer it for sale at the Greasespot Cafe, of all places, as if it were some kind of heirloom, an object of fondness and nostalgia.
It isn't me being unsympathetic, WG. It's you. You forget where you are. Even so, it's not about you. Really.
--
dmiller, art for art's sake? No matter the subject? You don't believe that, do you? Think it over.
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dmiller
Art for art's sake -- yes I do. :)
This is one of the more poignant that I have seen, and it says it all,
Although I don't believe that God is *flicking us off*
It is an excellent reminder that He has every reason to do so.
:(
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dmiller
And ~~~ I have no problem with word based *stuff* around my house.
If it came from Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts, or Docvic, if it promoted the Word (over their ministries),
I would be glad to have it here, regardless of who promoted the particular *saying*.
Personally ~~~ I would love to have a poster saying
"POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING"
and then quoting John 10:10. :)
That verse, and the concept were around much longer than docvic,
and his know-it-all-attitude.
but again ~~~ that is just my IMO. :)
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diazbro
Keepsakes of the way experience have varying degrees of appeal to people. For me I think its all pretty much junk but don't have a problem if others want to hold onto whatever - nametags, books, class notes, dove pins. Just don't ask me to share your enthusiasm and all will be well. I dumped my way stuff long ago except for some stuff I haven't been able to find. This happened long before the days of Ebay and if I still had that stuff I would gladly sell it to people who wanted it. One man's junk is another's treasure. Some people are compeltists and really want to collect artifacts from all eras of their lives. I hope that its this which would motivate someone to want to buy Way regalia as opposed to any residual devotion to Way teachings. I had a friend who used to have that picture of VPW sitting and drinking a cup of coffee. Its been many years but I think that is what it had. Anyway there is Vic with this self-satisfied look on his face, with a cup of drambuie (disgusied as coffee). I always thought that pic was creepy as hell. always. It would be even more creepy were I to discover that someone actually wanted to buy it.
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satori001
Isn't that the root of it?
The title, "Power For Abundant Living," disguised its biblical content to appeal to the human potential movement (or so it might appear), a bible class masquerading as a positive thinking class.
But what was it really? A positive thinking class, masqerading as a bible class, masquerading as a positive thinking class. As many have amply demonstrated, PFAL sent Jesus to the back of the bus. Didn't it? It sure as hell did. VPW was front and center, and the class was our induction to Way World, VP World.
It was positively conditioning, masquerading as positive "believing," a.k.a., positive thinking. Scripture was the vehicle, not the payload.
If slapping John 10:10 at the bottom makes it all real for you, you're easily impressed. Once upon a time, we all were.
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excathedra
and what would that reason be, d. ?
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socks
So didya sell it?
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J0nny Ling0
"You forget where you ARE?"
Where is where we are? Are you are saying that we are at a site that is reserved ONLY for people who believe that The Way was/is evil from beginning to end and want only to speak negatively about it?. This must mean then, that I or anyone who has anything good to say about The Way and any (but maybe not all) of our time spent there, is WRONG and UNSYMPATHETIC? I didn't think that this was this kind of place.
Pawtucket: Is this the kind of place the Grease Spot Cafe is?
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J0nny Ling0
And who are "the people in Belize?" If you know them but don't want to post his/her/or their names, could you PM me?
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Raf
No, Jonny, but it is a place where people with those feelings exist in large number and have no hesitation expressing those feelings. You wouldn't be shocked to go into a bar and find drinking, even though people who don't drink are welcome there, would you?
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satori001
You're comparing apples with applecarts, Jonny.
This has nothing to do with anyone's personal experience during their stay at Way World. Everyone had good experiences from time to time. I did. Even those who got the worst of it probably did.
It has to do with what the ministry represented, and what it did.
I'm compelled to resort to the trusty, if hackneyed, nazi analogy. There were always good Germans, even during WWII, and many of them were caught up in their nation's war. Does their goodness justify the nation's evil? Of course not. Do they invest their memories of friendship, personal courage, honor and so on, in each other, or in nazi memorabilia?
TWI wasn't the Third Reich, of course, but the tired example serves to illustrate my point.
PFAL was the tool of a cult. It was a tightly scripted, scrupulously controlled vehicle for the induction and indoctrination of... us. It didn't happen over night. It was the product of trial and error, and VPW's intuitive understanding of what draws people into a cause.
A PFAL poster can bring back good memories, running classes with people we loved, the fellowship of great "believers," believing what we did was first and foremost the will of God.
But did God really want so many people seeking truth to be so evilly served? Neither of us thinks so. Did God want a bunch of bums, like Vic Wierwille, the trustees, many of the leaders, to take cynical advantage of people who sought and loved Him, like the sons of Eli in the OT? Neither of us thinks so. PFAL was The Way International's principal tool.
Anything good about TWI, we brought it there, and when we left, it left with us. What good we took from it, we might have taken from any other place where the bible was studied and believed by people, and without Vic Wierwille's poison.
So now we've left. Do we still celebrate "PFAL?" I hope not, but if so, we don't get it yet.
-most recently edited for content-
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danteh1
Watered Garden
I want to appologise for the off the wall comment that I made about your poster that you have for sale.
I was attempting a little humor towards TWI instead of what u had that u wanted to sell.
It wasn't any type fo disrespect towards you. I tend to try to use Humour towards TWI to poke fun at them than to have an innocent person get hurt by what i have said. So i hope u can forgive what i said in my earlier post about the poster u have. I do know that there are some people here at GSC that do collect the artwork that the older TWI produced. I even sold some of the collaterals and the Bullinger hardbound bible from when i was in to one of the posters that post here quite a while back.
And i am still debating if i want to sell some of the rest of the TWI records that i have or just toss them. "PFAL '77" "All Aboard" and "ROA 1976" albums. The only thing is if they would survive the postal system's delivery system.
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