I think we should get off the subject of what Dr.Wierwille did or LCM but we should do as the bible says to do . The Bible is bigger than any one man or ministry, when we believe the bible we can do all things. We need to get the knowledge of the word believe what it has to say and leave the leaders out of it. I would say start in Romans and end in Thessalonians and see what we learn just from that . Then after that start a fellowship and teach what you know to everyone
God Bless,
ckmckeon
I like this thread.
For months, I have not been on this forum, not so much that I was still at Way fellowships, but that 1/3 or more of the posts in this forum are worse in nature than current Way problems; and on par with past Way negatives.
We moved to another part of our state. We attend what's mainly a trinity type church, but after I "just happened" to work next door to the ministers house, we had iced tea together; then I learned that he's meek to know more.
The heart and caring in that church exceeds what I saw at much of the Way fellowships during the past decade. I'd rather attend where people lack some knowledge, but have some heart.
The insight of this minister is quite astounding. He, and his dad, teach as good as any minister I've heard in the Way - aside from the few trinity comments.
No wonder people flock to this church. It's congregation is a few thousand, with offshoots routinely occuring to keep the size down. They do have home fellowships and also believe in speaking in tongues for several of the reasons that many of us were taught in the Way.
When I left the last Way fellowship, I confronted the coordinator about the "dry as a bone" nature of the fellowship. Over 6 years in two fellowships, only 3 or 4 people ever visited and nobody new ever stayed. That's the combined effort of 15 to 20 people witnessing (spinning their wheels) over a 6 year period.
And the meeting structure was so redundant that it may as well have been a recording - led to a script it seemed.
It's been challenging living in a new region of the state and starting business again from scratch, but in general, I feel great. My attitude is better, and I feel 10 years younger in my work. I'm more thankful for my work and what I have. And I enjoy the fellowship at the church so much, I go several times a week to hear the Word and visit with people, whereas I had to drag myself to one Way fellowship per week.
I still greatly care for the people who I left behind. They are still my buddies, and I wish no ill or collapse of their situation. If they can rise to higher standards of fellowship - good for them.
On the other hand, I believe there is truth in "what's in a name". The Way name has been seriously damaged, even if it were just for C. Martindale alone. Jumping back and forth between foundational classes was not a rock solid example either. It's a swaying back and forth.
If the Way were to rise to a smooth running ministry according to the Word, I think they would do well to rename the group and file all required legal papers to change corporate entity. The internet is to heavily loaded about the Way International.
If the Way were to rise to a smooth running ministry according to the Word, I think they would do well to rename the group and file all required legal papers to change corporate entity. The internet is to heavily loaded about the Way International.
I first want to welcome you back (To GS)and I agree there is some negativity here. The Way is stunned they have no idea what to do they are just playing it by ear. The problem is that VPW called LCM to be the leader but as we know LCM is not the leader. In order for "The Way" to start running smoothly they must find a way to get LCM back. Then he needs to find his error and start teaching the word. Now I hear that Rivenbark has made all new classes from foundational to advanced they would have been better of teaching the doctrines of VPW.
Craig simply needs to find his error and everything will be hunky dory???
Oh my word, I wonder how GOD feels about people who use his scriptures and their authority as Christian leaders to hurt and destroy ...and what HE requires in order to be forgiven and grant restitution.
I feel so bad for the idealistic youngsters who believe these lies :( Yet another foolish generation to become enslaved by means of their big hearts and unselfish idealism.
I think that this is one of the most discouraging posts that I have ever read.
Craig simply needs to find his error and everything will be hunky dory???
Oh my word, I wonder how GOD feels about people who use his scriptures and their authority as Christian leaders to hurt and destroy ...and what HE requires in order to be forgiven and grant restitution.
I feel so bad for the idealistic youngsters who believe these lies :( Yet another foolish generation to become enslaved by means of their big hearts and unselfish idealism.
I think that this is one of the most discouraging posts that I have ever read.
I did not say that when he gets back that he should not repent or apologize what I said was he needs to find his error first. Nobody can apologize or repent if the person does or does not not know what he has done is wrong. The first thing is to find the error through the bible. Then forgive and repent.
From Rascal "How does God feel about people who use the scriptures and their authority as christian leaders to hurt and destroy"
The Catholic church does it everyday
God is hurt when this happens but we live in the age if grace the time of judgement will be at the end of time.
When Christ comes back
ckmckeon
Ya, let them get LCM back and watch Everyone leave. (imo)
Are you kidding? Even "innies" don't want him back, they only want more "excitement".
Would you go back ckmkeon?
Theres nobody there now who do you think is going to leave??
For months, I have not been on this forum, not so much that I was still at Way fellowships, but that 1/3 or more of the posts in this forum are worse in nature than current Way problems; and on par with past Way negatives.
We moved to another part of our state. We attend what's mainly a trinity type church, but after I "just happened" to work next door to the ministers house, we had iced tea together; then I learned that he's meek to know more.
The heart and caring in that church exceeds what I saw at much of the Way fellowships during the past decade. I'd rather attend where people lack some knowledge, but have some heart.
The insight of this minister is quite astounding. He, and his dad, teach as good as any minister I've heard in the Way - aside from the few trinity comments.
No wonder people flock to this church. It's congregation is a few thousand, with offshoots routinely occuring to keep the size down. They do have home fellowships and also believe in speaking in tongues for several of the reasons that many of us were taught in the Way.
When I left the last Way fellowship, I confronted the coordinator about the "dry as a bone" nature of the fellowship. Over 6 years in two fellowships, only 3 or 4 people ever visited and nobody new ever stayed. That's the combined effort of 15 to 20 people witnessing (spinning their wheels) over a 6 year period.
And the meeting structure was so redundant that it may as well have been a recording - led to a script it seemed.
It's been challenging living in a new region of the state and starting business again from scratch, but in general, I feel great. My attitude is better, and I feel 10 years younger in my work. I'm more thankful for my work and what I have. And I enjoy the fellowship at the church so much, I go several times a week to hear the Word and visit with people, whereas I had to drag myself to one Way fellowship per week.
I still greatly care for the people who I left behind. They are still my buddies, and I wish no ill or collapse of their situation. If they can rise to higher standards of fellowship - good for them.
On the other hand, I believe there is truth in "what's in a name". The Way name has been seriously damaged, even if it were just for C. Martindale alone. Jumping back and forth between foundational classes was not a rock solid example either. It's a swaying back and forth.
If the Way were to rise to a smooth running ministry according to the Word, I think they would do well to rename the group and file all required legal papers to change corporate entity. The internet is to heavily loaded about the Way International.
Hey MDV! Welcome back! So am I correct in saying that you left twi?
I really liked the pictures on your website, and my last visit there I saw that you moved south. Ironically my hubby and I plan to move to that nick of the woods in the next year or so.
I'm glad to hear you're doing well. IMHO the churches I've been to since leaving twi had a lot more information and truth that twi ever gave them credit for. It was a hard pill to swallow at first because I believed nobody but twi had the truth. That turned out to be a lie.
ckmkeon, This thread is "What happened to the word??, The Bible"
By the time lcm got to a top leadership position the "Word" had been thrown out of twi as far as the top leadership.
Martindale preached devlish shiat from day 1 as Prez of twi. IMHO he learned how to teach just enough truth so that he could throw in the Word in his own pervertion. He used that word to ruin or should I say RUIN 1,000's of peoples lives.
He to this day has not seen his wrong doings and never will. He says he has done nothing wrong to this day. What happened to the Word? For some who heard it under VP's reighn or lcm's reighn. They heard a little of the truth but were told a bunch of lies. More lies than truth.
The lies IMHO were lies to cover up for greed and to hide their carnel sins. They did not give a crap about you or anyone else that was not in their ring. We were used as the privates to keep the generals living in their high life. Throw out what they taught you and run for the hills. There was little to no word in what or how they lived. We were held to higher standards than what they lived.
Hey MDV! Welcome back! So am I correct in saying that you left twi?
I really liked the pictures on your website, and my last visit there I saw that you moved south. Ironically my hubby and I plan to move to that nick of the woods in the next year or so.
I'm glad to hear you're doing well. IMHO the churches I've been to since leaving twi had a lot more information and truth that twi ever gave them credit for. It was a hard pill to swallow at first because I believed nobody but twi had the truth. That turned out to be a lie.
That is correct. We quit "attending" the ""fellowships"" last June just before moving to Medford. Actually, we are in Ruch about 13 miles west of Medford, with a Jacksonville address.
I made a page for our new location > scroll down the page; several images:
The page link is also in the small drop-down menu at the bottom of my home page.
Yes, I was impressed at how much some churches have advanced in many areas of the Word and teaching. It might be that the influence of the early Way and people who left it triggered part of that advancement. But now it's fairly irrelevant who caused what as long as truth is taught. I'm amazed at how many websites list E. W. Bullinger's work on figures of speech.
Yes, I was impressed at how much some churches have advanced in many areas of the Word and teaching. It might be that the influence of the early Way and people who left it triggered part of that advancement. But now it's fairly irrelevant who caused what as long as truth is taught. I'm amazed at how many websites list E. W. Bullinger's work on figures of speech.
Welcome back, MD Vaden.
Yeah.....some churches have advanced in many areas!!!
You'll have to give me a link to the church you attend if they have a website. We will definitely be looking for churches when we get there. My hubby and I will move around Medford. My sister and her hubby will be moving to Grants Pass. They will be looking for a church also when they get there.
Does this church have worship service before the teaching? What denomination do they tend to be similar to?
I tooked at your Southern Oregon album. Great pictures! I love the ones of Hellgate Excursions. I've done that excursion quite a few times. The last time was last Memorial Day weekend. They built a new lodge since the last time I had been there. That is a great time and worth every $ IMHO.
For months, I have not been on this forum, not so much that I was still at Way fellowships, but that 1/3 or more of the posts in this forum are worse in nature than current Way problems; and on par with past Way negatives.
This would be disconcerting if the GSC was supposed to be a church
or a Christian ministry or something.
It is not.
It is a board designed to allow as much free speech as possible,
and is dedicated-not towards Christianity-
but towards exposing the truth about twi, past and present
(for the past EXPLAINS the present.)
People dedicated to being contentious and argumentative would be
kicked out of twi in a hot second, but they're allowed in the GSC
so long as they don't completely abandon taste or completely
impede discussion. (And those get warnings before anything
really extreme happens.)
Posts can sound worse than current twi problems here, of course.
Then again, discussion of twi problems is verboten in twi,
and there's few places to discuss them, past OR present.
Further, the current problems ARE the result of decisions made
and actions taken in the past.
Example: rfr is in charge now.
Why?
She was in a position of authority because she knew how to
suck up once in the inner circle to work her way up to the
top. She did this with lcm.
How did she get there?
vpw lacked the ability to hear God's voice warning him about
her untrustworthiness, and she presented an image of
competency to him while feeding his ego-which he thought
he deserved. So, you can trace THAT back all the way to vpw.
lcm would never have HEARD of her otherwise.
How did she get to displace lcm and take the brass ring?
lcm was caught in acts of sexual misconduct.
Why did lcm commit acts of sexual misconduct?
vpw taught him that he would need to "loosen up sexually".
vpw set the "example" with his OWN sexual misconduct.
Why was lcm in the big chair in the first place?
vpw hand-chose his successor.
He asked everyone to recommend who they thought
would be a good replacement for him.
They named a small handful of people.
vpw then dismissed their suggestions, and chose out
lcm entirely on his own.
See, lcm was one of the most loyal unto painful death
to vpw himself. So, a man with no life-experience
or training outside of twi (he went straight from college
to the corps), picked solely on the criteria of blind
loyalty, was placed in charge of tens of thousands of
people, possibly more. Worse, his "training"
consisted of what vpw said training should consist of,
so he "inherited" all of vpw's weaknesses on top of his
own. So, that also goes all the way back to vpw.
Now, then,
can you see the relevance of discussing the past of twi
I thought Mark O'Malley's post says it all. That's a great starting point.
Amen.
Even Wierwille taught that the Bible was about Jesus Christ from Genesis 3:15 to Revelation 22:21.
Jesus Christ is Lord to glory of God, Jesus gave Paul and others revelation, we can and should have fellowship with Jesus Christ who John says is the Word of God;
Acts 2:36
36"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Galations 1:12
12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
I John 1:3
3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."
Very interesting. I never gave thought to this verse before. He received revelation from Jesus Christ. I wonder how twi wrestled that verse around to make it fit their doctrine.
can you see the relevance of discussing the past of twi
when looking at its present?
Slightly / Somewhat / A Little.
The Word teaches a procedure in the law, proverbs, gospels and epistles, about how certain matters are to be exposed, proved, witnessed to, etc.. I don't think some issues in this forum follow those procedures, wisdom or profit.
WAYFER NOT - You'll have to give me a link to the church you attend if they have a website. We will definitely be looking for churches when we get there.
I won't post their link, but use Google and enter
Jacksonville Applegate Fellowship Coursen
That should bring it up. It's in Ruch with a Jacksonville address.
This would be disconcerting if the GSC was supposed to be a church
or a Christian ministry or something.
The GSC is a church. Just as the church in the house of Aquilla and Priscilla, or the mob of silversmiths in Ephesus are both called an "ekklesia", so likewise are the participants of the GSC an ekklesia in the basics of participation.
Assuming we are all christians, we still all have the ministry of reconciliation. So participating in an on-line forum or going to a restaurant does not remove us from adhering to the doctrine and ministry of the Word. Our conduct and conversation should be the same basic standard wherever we are, if there are enough christians to enable the practices and the doctrines.
So from what the Word teaches, I view the GSC as a church.
Maybe some people LEFT THE WAY, but I sure hope they did not come here thinking that they left the Word. If christians are going to come to this forum and claim they have some kind of profitable information or edification to dish out, I sure hope they plan to do it exactly as God, Jesus Christ or the Apostle Paul taught it should be done.
I won't do anybody and good in here if I think I can add, subtract or change the Word in how I speak, edify, confront, prove or excuse in my conversation.
Many of us left the Way International, but THE WAY still stands firm.
Assuming we are all christians, we still all have the ministry of reconciliation. So participating in an on-line forum or going to a restaurant does not remove us from adhering to the doctrine and ministry of the Word. Our conduct and conversation should be the same basic standard wherever we are, if there are enough christians to enable the practices and the doctrines.
So from what the Word teaches, I view the GSC as a church.
But we are not all Christian. I'm not. A few other's aren't. I'm not part of your church, nor am I here to join a church. Pawtucket has not declared this to be a Christian forum. If he does, then I would leave out of respect for him and the type of forum he wants to run.
I don't see this forum as a type of church or fellowship. I see it a place to speak out, after having been without a voice during my TWI years. Also, it is healing to see that things I thought were wrong and unloving were seen that way by others who experienced similar situations.
Also, I have found that outside of the ex way folk, very few people have any understanding about groups like TWI. They just think you are nuts.
But we are not all Christian. I'm not. A few other's aren't. I'm not part of your church, nor am I here to join a church. Pawtucket has not declared this to be a Christian forum. If he does, then I would leave out of respect for him and the type of forum he wants to run.
I don't see this forum as a type of church or fellowship. I see it a place to speak out, after having been without a voice during my TWI years. Also, it is healing to see that things I thought were wrong and unloving were seen that way by others who experienced similar situations.
Also, I have found that outside of the ex way folk, very few people have any understanding about groups like TWI. They just think you are nuts.
The silversmith's of Ephesus were not christians either, but were still a "church" or "ekklesia". So based on either biblical terminology, or old Greek terminology, you are the participant of a "church" by participation here. You are here for a purpose - a similar purpose..
When I look at this forum and site, I see primarily a Christian base of concept and usership, regardless of the technicality about some non-Christians users..
If this is not intended to be a site of profit to the chiristian church, I'd like someone who represents the site to clearly state such - that it's not a christian site, but just a place for any person whosoever to ramble on about one particular religious group.
I was under the impression that this site was christian owned, maybe I'm wrong. If it is, then this quote from the "who we are" part conveys a meaning to me:
Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees. Our hope is that GreaseSpot Cafe serves as a place where those who have been impacted by The Way can make connections with people and information which will support their particular process of recovery.
If it's a christian operated forum, then people are expected to "recover" if they are Christians capable of renewing their mind, being edified with the Word, and taking on an easier yoke.
If it's not a christian forum, then people will not "recover" - they will merely transform or conform to another fashion of worldly living - if they intend not to believe and become a christian.
That's my perspective as a christian.
If the Way was bad for you, and you are not a christian, great: pick another alternative. I don't call any alternative to the Word "recovery" though. I lived in "recovery" land before I was a christian or knew how to believe the Word, and "recovery" in the world is not any real recovery.
The world's "recovery" is just one cult after another - near-perfect counterfiets that could each have their own forum against them for information. Except that they are so subtle as counterfiets, that they still seem appealing to the non-christians, and to some christians.
1 Corinthians 2:6
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world , nor of the princes of this world , that come to nought:
KJV
Outside of the the christianity of the Word, is the world. And that world has princes and rulers and it's wisdom. It has no recovery. Not God's idea of recovery. Maybe God's idea of a pacifier, but not recovery.
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ex10
ckm, no offense intended, but "knowledge of the word" is what got everybody in trouble to start with. "Knowledge of the word"without a relationship with Jesus causes no end of pain and heartache. I
pond
I have thought this way before as well. Well if the "word" says it then lets just do it. Now I loook at who is saying when where and just how and could care less if the fact a chapter and ver
lindyhopper
As far as I know, the bird is still the word. If it has changed please let me know.
M. D. Vaden
I like this thread.
For months, I have not been on this forum, not so much that I was still at Way fellowships, but that 1/3 or more of the posts in this forum are worse in nature than current Way problems; and on par with past Way negatives.
We moved to another part of our state. We attend what's mainly a trinity type church, but after I "just happened" to work next door to the ministers house, we had iced tea together; then I learned that he's meek to know more.
The heart and caring in that church exceeds what I saw at much of the Way fellowships during the past decade. I'd rather attend where people lack some knowledge, but have some heart.
The insight of this minister is quite astounding. He, and his dad, teach as good as any minister I've heard in the Way - aside from the few trinity comments.
No wonder people flock to this church. It's congregation is a few thousand, with offshoots routinely occuring to keep the size down. They do have home fellowships and also believe in speaking in tongues for several of the reasons that many of us were taught in the Way.
When I left the last Way fellowship, I confronted the coordinator about the "dry as a bone" nature of the fellowship. Over 6 years in two fellowships, only 3 or 4 people ever visited and nobody new ever stayed. That's the combined effort of 15 to 20 people witnessing (spinning their wheels) over a 6 year period.
And the meeting structure was so redundant that it may as well have been a recording - led to a script it seemed.
It's been challenging living in a new region of the state and starting business again from scratch, but in general, I feel great. My attitude is better, and I feel 10 years younger in my work. I'm more thankful for my work and what I have. And I enjoy the fellowship at the church so much, I go several times a week to hear the Word and visit with people, whereas I had to drag myself to one Way fellowship per week.
I still greatly care for the people who I left behind. They are still my buddies, and I wish no ill or collapse of their situation. If they can rise to higher standards of fellowship - good for them.
On the other hand, I believe there is truth in "what's in a name". The Way name has been seriously damaged, even if it were just for C. Martindale alone. Jumping back and forth between foundational classes was not a rock solid example either. It's a swaying back and forth.
If the Way were to rise to a smooth running ministry according to the Word, I think they would do well to rename the group and file all required legal papers to change corporate entity. The internet is to heavily loaded about the Way International.
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dmiller
Seems to me, that docvic (and lcm) taught that ONLY GOD could *create*.
Meebe you *started something*, (and that I can go along with).
But *create*?? Naw -- Not even by your standards. :unsure:
(just my IMO --- don't cha know)
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Raf
Welcome back, M.D. Vaden. And nice post.
Can I nitpick on something you said, though?
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ckmkeon
I first want to welcome you back (To GS)and I agree there is some negativity here. The Way is stunned they have no idea what to do they are just playing it by ear. The problem is that VPW called LCM to be the leader but as we know LCM is not the leader. In order for "The Way" to start running smoothly they must find a way to get LCM back. Then he needs to find his error and start teaching the word. Now I hear that Rivenbark has made all new classes from foundational to advanced they would have been better of teaching the doctrines of VPW.
God Bless
ckmckeon
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bliss
Ya, let them get LCM back and watch Everyone leave. (imo)
Are you kidding? Even "innies" don't want him back, they only want more "excitement".
Would you go back ckmkeon?
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rascal
Wow, that is very very sad :(
No repentance? No apology, NO asking forgiveness?
Craig simply needs to find his error and everything will be hunky dory???
Oh my word, I wonder how GOD feels about people who use his scriptures and their authority as Christian leaders to hurt and destroy ...and what HE requires in order to be forgiven and grant restitution.
I feel so bad for the idealistic youngsters who believe these lies :( Yet another foolish generation to become enslaved by means of their big hearts and unselfish idealism.
I think that this is one of the most discouraging posts that I have ever read.
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ckmkeon
I did not say that when he gets back that he should not repent or apologize what I said was he needs to find his error first. Nobody can apologize or repent if the person does or does not not know what he has done is wrong. The first thing is to find the error through the bible. Then forgive and repent.
From Rascal "How does God feel about people who use the scriptures and their authority as christian leaders to hurt and destroy"
The Catholic church does it everyday
God is hurt when this happens but we live in the age if grace the time of judgement will be at the end of time.
When Christ comes back
ckmckeon
Theres nobody there now who do you think is going to leave??
everyone has left already
ckmckeon
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Nottawayfer
Hey MDV! Welcome back! So am I correct in saying that you left twi?
I really liked the pictures on your website, and my last visit there I saw that you moved south. Ironically my hubby and I plan to move to that nick of the woods in the next year or so.
I'm glad to hear you're doing well. IMHO the churches I've been to since leaving twi had a lot more information and truth that twi ever gave them credit for. It was a hard pill to swallow at first because I believed nobody but twi had the truth. That turned out to be a lie.
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justloafing
ckmkeon, This thread is "What happened to the word??, The Bible"
By the time lcm got to a top leadership position the "Word" had been thrown out of twi as far as the top leadership.
Martindale preached devlish shiat from day 1 as Prez of twi. IMHO he learned how to teach just enough truth so that he could throw in the Word in his own pervertion. He used that word to ruin or should I say RUIN 1,000's of peoples lives.
He to this day has not seen his wrong doings and never will. He says he has done nothing wrong to this day. What happened to the Word? For some who heard it under VP's reighn or lcm's reighn. They heard a little of the truth but were told a bunch of lies. More lies than truth.
The lies IMHO were lies to cover up for greed and to hide their carnel sins. They did not give a crap about you or anyone else that was not in their ring. We were used as the privates to keep the generals living in their high life. Throw out what they taught you and run for the hills. There was little to no word in what or how they lived. We were held to higher standards than what they lived.
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M. D. Vaden
That is correct. We quit "attending" the ""fellowships"" last June just before moving to Medford. Actually, we are in Ruch about 13 miles west of Medford, with a Jacksonville address.
I made a page for our new location > scroll down the page; several images:
Area near our new south Oregon home
The page link is also in the small drop-down menu at the bottom of my home page.
Yes, I was impressed at how much some churches have advanced in many areas of the Word and teaching. It might be that the influence of the early Way and people who left it triggered part of that advancement. But now it's fairly irrelevant who caused what as long as truth is taught. I'm amazed at how many websites list E. W. Bullinger's work on figures of speech.
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skyrider
Welcome back, MD Vaden.
Yeah.....some churches have advanced in many areas!!!
Twi is snoozing and losing.....
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lindyhopper
As far as I know, the bird is still the word.
If it has changed please let me know.
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Nottawayfer
MDV:
You'll have to give me a link to the church you attend if they have a website. We will definitely be looking for churches when we get there. My hubby and I will move around Medford. My sister and her hubby will be moving to Grants Pass. They will be looking for a church also when they get there.
Does this church have worship service before the teaching? What denomination do they tend to be similar to?
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WordWolf
There's possibly 2000 people still in,
among them some teenagers who still think they can fix everything,
and have no idea of the depth and number of problems-
or their perpetrators.
I'd hardly call 2000 people "nobody".
Jesus talked about joy in heaven over ONE sinner that repented.
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Nottawayfer
MDV,
I tooked at your Southern Oregon album. Great pictures! I love the ones of Hellgate Excursions. I've done that excursion quite a few times. The last time was last Memorial Day weekend. They built a new lodge since the last time I had been there. That is a great time and worth every $ IMHO.
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WordWolf
This would be disconcerting if the GSC was supposed to be a church
or a Christian ministry or something.
It is not.
It is a board designed to allow as much free speech as possible,
and is dedicated-not towards Christianity-
but towards exposing the truth about twi, past and present
(for the past EXPLAINS the present.)
People dedicated to being contentious and argumentative would be
kicked out of twi in a hot second, but they're allowed in the GSC
so long as they don't completely abandon taste or completely
impede discussion. (And those get warnings before anything
really extreme happens.)
Posts can sound worse than current twi problems here, of course.
Then again, discussion of twi problems is verboten in twi,
and there's few places to discuss them, past OR present.
Further, the current problems ARE the result of decisions made
and actions taken in the past.
Example: rfr is in charge now.
Why?
She was in a position of authority because she knew how to
suck up once in the inner circle to work her way up to the
top. She did this with lcm.
How did she get there?
vpw lacked the ability to hear God's voice warning him about
her untrustworthiness, and she presented an image of
competency to him while feeding his ego-which he thought
he deserved. So, you can trace THAT back all the way to vpw.
lcm would never have HEARD of her otherwise.
How did she get to displace lcm and take the brass ring?
lcm was caught in acts of sexual misconduct.
Why did lcm commit acts of sexual misconduct?
vpw taught him that he would need to "loosen up sexually".
vpw set the "example" with his OWN sexual misconduct.
Why was lcm in the big chair in the first place?
vpw hand-chose his successor.
He asked everyone to recommend who they thought
would be a good replacement for him.
They named a small handful of people.
vpw then dismissed their suggestions, and chose out
lcm entirely on his own.
See, lcm was one of the most loyal unto painful death
to vpw himself. So, a man with no life-experience
or training outside of twi (he went straight from college
to the corps), picked solely on the criteria of blind
loyalty, was placed in charge of tens of thousands of
people, possibly more. Worse, his "training"
consisted of what vpw said training should consist of,
so he "inherited" all of vpw's weaknesses on top of his
own. So, that also goes all the way back to vpw.
Now, then,
can you see the relevance of discussing the past of twi
when looking at its present?
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Outin88.
Amen.
Even Wierwille taught that the Bible was about Jesus Christ from Genesis 3:15 to Revelation 22:21.
Jesus Christ is Lord to glory of God, Jesus gave Paul and others revelation, we can and should have fellowship with Jesus Christ who John says is the Word of God;
Acts 2:36
36"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Galations 1:12
12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
I John 1:3
3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
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Nottawayfer
"Galations 1:12
12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."
Very interesting. I never gave thought to this verse before. He received revelation from Jesus Christ. I wonder how twi wrestled that verse around to make it fit their doctrine.
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M. D. Vaden
The Word teaches a procedure in the law, proverbs, gospels and epistles, about how certain matters are to be exposed, proved, witnessed to, etc.. I don't think some issues in this forum follow those procedures, wisdom or profit.
I won't post their link, but use Google and enter
Jacksonville Applegate Fellowship Coursen
That should bring it up. It's in Ruch with a Jacksonville address.
The GSC is a church. Just as the church in the house of Aquilla and Priscilla, or the mob of silversmiths in Ephesus are both called an "ekklesia", so likewise are the participants of the GSC an ekklesia in the basics of participation.
Assuming we are all christians, we still all have the ministry of reconciliation. So participating in an on-line forum or going to a restaurant does not remove us from adhering to the doctrine and ministry of the Word. Our conduct and conversation should be the same basic standard wherever we are, if there are enough christians to enable the practices and the doctrines.
So from what the Word teaches, I view the GSC as a church.
Maybe some people LEFT THE WAY, but I sure hope they did not come here thinking that they left the Word. If christians are going to come to this forum and claim they have some kind of profitable information or edification to dish out, I sure hope they plan to do it exactly as God, Jesus Christ or the Apostle Paul taught it should be done.
I won't do anybody and good in here if I think I can add, subtract or change the Word in how I speak, edify, confront, prove or excuse in my conversation.
Many of us left the Way International, but THE WAY still stands firm.
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Bramble
But we are not all Christian. I'm not. A few other's aren't. I'm not part of your church, nor am I here to join a church. Pawtucket has not declared this to be a Christian forum. If he does, then I would leave out of respect for him and the type of forum he wants to run.
I don't see this forum as a type of church or fellowship. I see it a place to speak out, after having been without a voice during my TWI years. Also, it is healing to see that things I thought were wrong and unloving were seen that way by others who experienced similar situations.
Also, I have found that outside of the ex way folk, very few people have any understanding about groups like TWI. They just think you are nuts.
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Raf
Not everyone on GS is a Christian. We may be an ekklesia in Greek, but in English, we are not a church.
Mob might be a better word. :)
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GarthP2000
And what's the greek word for mob, Raf?
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outofdafog
But this isn't an ALL christian forum. Was never meant to be.
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M. D. Vaden
The silversmith's of Ephesus were not christians either, but were still a "church" or "ekklesia". So based on either biblical terminology, or old Greek terminology, you are the participant of a "church" by participation here. You are here for a purpose - a similar purpose..
When I look at this forum and site, I see primarily a Christian base of concept and usership, regardless of the technicality about some non-Christians users..
If this is not intended to be a site of profit to the chiristian church, I'd like someone who represents the site to clearly state such - that it's not a christian site, but just a place for any person whosoever to ramble on about one particular religious group.
I was under the impression that this site was christian owned, maybe I'm wrong. If it is, then this quote from the "who we are" part conveys a meaning to me:
If it's a christian operated forum, then people are expected to "recover" if they are Christians capable of renewing their mind, being edified with the Word, and taking on an easier yoke.
If it's not a christian forum, then people will not "recover" - they will merely transform or conform to another fashion of worldly living - if they intend not to believe and become a christian.
That's my perspective as a christian.
If the Way was bad for you, and you are not a christian, great: pick another alternative. I don't call any alternative to the Word "recovery" though. I lived in "recovery" land before I was a christian or knew how to believe the Word, and "recovery" in the world is not any real recovery.
The world's "recovery" is just one cult after another - near-perfect counterfiets that could each have their own forum against them for information. Except that they are so subtle as counterfiets, that they still seem appealing to the non-christians, and to some christians.
Outside of the the christianity of the Word, is the world. And that world has princes and rulers and it's wisdom. It has no recovery. Not God's idea of recovery. Maybe God's idea of a pacifier, but not recovery.
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