Sometimes we post not so much as to inform, although that might be a side benefit
But we post because we just got the courage to haul that "lock box" out of the cobwebby corner of our minds, hack off the rusty corroded padlock, and are experiencing a catharsis as we finally expose the ugly contents to the light of day.
I don't wish to hide the passion of Christ from my view and I do to some degree because it makes my heart ache as if something real was going on right here and now. It is rather real to me I guess you might surmise then. For that act of great sacrifice to be put with any other man as an image is IMHO disrespectful. I don't care whose face appeared there if it weren't a rendition accepted as that of our lord and savior. Does it reflect what you feel this young man CK feels towards VP when he reads our words on this board? Perhaps so but if that is his perception let him keep it to himself. I didn't need to see his sickness. Thank you for the courtesy of disagreeing with you.
Regarding Marks pic-well yes its offensive -so? TWI and Wierwille were at least as offensive as that pic--much more so in my book. Its just a picture--its not an actual rape--but it is true at its essence regarding what some think and an accurate reflection of Wierwilles narcissisitic self promoting theology---and thats what makes it relevant and worthwhile in my little booklet.
A picture is still worth a thousand words--that one to me was on the money
Well, all I can say is that I too find the pic pretty offensive. For reasons cited above as well. I think it's in pretty poor taste. Somehow, it doesn't seem to me to be the best way to make a point.
Proverbs 18:19 comes to mind. But hey, just my opinion.
I would have forgiven a person who is dead and I would have forgotten by now if I were part of the TWI
CK
Ck, believe me, it is sooooooo easy to say what you think you'll do when you're 19 and havent' had anything like any of these experiences touch your life.
You might not believe this, but I have forgiven VPW, LCM and the guy who tried to rape me - as he was taught by VPW.
Now, having forgiven them doesn't mean that I'm not still a bit well - peeved about it. It doesn't mean that I would trust either of the two that are still alive - that trust would have to earned over a very long period of time.
It is possible to forgive someone and still feel the need to talk about it. Forgive does not mean forget. WE all share some experiences that you simply are not privvy to. You weren't around when VPW was alive so you never saw the hatred in his eyes when he was totally pi ssed off. You never had LCM tell you you weren't worth the gunpowder it would take to blow you up.
Many of us here share that - we talk about it to get it out and begin to get it into perpesctive. You can't possibly know how that feels. -
You'll also notice that we also have some great times we talk about with each other. Look around and you'll find them - if you haven't found them its because you haven't looked. That would indicate that you are looking to find fault in us.
Remember the old saying (I'm not sure yu have heard it though)
To truly know a man (or woman) you must walk a mile in his (or her)shoes.
Live another 19 years and then tell me how it feels to have someone betray your trust.
Ck, believe me, it is sooooooo easy to say what you think you'll do when you're 19 and havent' had anything like any of these experiences touch your life.
To truly know a man (or woman) you must walk a mile in his (or her)shoes.
Live another 19 years and then tell me how it feels to have someone betray your trust.
I have one question for why the emphasis on my age
they are not playing fair to say you do not know becausse your 19.
i happen to know some very wise and much less bitter young adults .
i think your age has very little to do with what your saying , it is just easy to pick on someone who is 19.
but the issue may be you really did not have the experience of so much trouble while trying to do what pfal taught. and you did not have a bad outcome of what he taught turn your life into choas and trouble and stress.
that is one reason why many have lost their desire to hear some of the stuff you say. they shut the ears .
some think about their own experience and think it has a little bit more authority than just soem stuff you may have read or heard from someone.
we are to be doers of the word, pfal will tell you that.
the doing of what the way ministry taught and did was a bother for many and that is why they may say you do not know what your talking about.
because you did not get involved in the "doing" what the way wanted done.
i think your age has very little to do with what your saying , it is just easy to pick on someone who is 19.
but the issue may be you really did not have the experience of so much trouble while trying to do what pfal taught. and you did not have a bad outcome of what he taught turn your life into choas and trouble and stress.
Pond --- I disagree. I happen to like CK, and have NEVER picked on him/her because of age.
What is being discussed here, has everything to do with experience, and not just *hearsay*, which is what CK is offering.
If ya weren't in the band, don't complain about someone else saying there were sour notes in the music.
Once again ckmckeon pond (mj) has also shown you that being older doesn't necessarily guarantee you a better grip on reality...
Your age does make some difference in that (as others have pointed out time and again) you weren't around to experience all of these things, you haven't been around long enough to have weathered some of the storms that we have (and hopefully you won't have to)... that and the fact that you come in here posting that you're only 19, have never met veepee and didn't know him, but you think he was the greatest thing since sliced bread...
Think about your relationship with your parents for a moment... you trust their judgement on things unknown to you don't you? Why? Because they've been around longer and have the luxury of experience to draw on...
But it has nothing to do with PFAL and doing it or not doing it... it has to do with a man who set himself up as THE man of God and proceeded to use that position to rape and steal... and then taught others to do likewise...
While I found the picture grotesque (sp), I also found it very appropriate for this thread. Although Mark could have put any number of our pictures there and it might have been even more appropriate. Having read a number of CK's posts, I'd say he is guilty of exactly what he accuses, except it is those who have been hurt he persecutes, instead of his precious.
as he said, he ONLY continues to come here BECAUSE of those who express their anger and hurt, the betrayal of VPW.
"The only thing I can say is "IF" VPW did this to any of you what makes you better to persecute him. Wouldn't it be better to be bigger than that and just forgive"
The above says so much about him. I guess my tag line sums it up well enough.
I don't think the picture makes the point very well. It doesn't really offend me but it's so over the top it distracts from the point it's attempting to make, that McChickoen's assertion of VP's "persecution" here is absurd.
But crucifiction is so far beyond "persecution" that the picture becomes just as guilty of exaggeration as McChickoen.
It therefore fails to make its point effectively, in my opinion.
It's clear that McChickoen is "trolling" - but only for attention. This is his validation, such as it is. This is his "cause." Defending his mommy and daddy's religion.
I think we keep seeing references to his young age because McChickoen reminds many of us of teenage behavior (not all teenagers, but we all knew one like him), which is babyish, prankish, naive, antagonistic, and intentionally offensive, not to mention so badly argued that most of us would have to really TRY to sound that dumb, if that was our intention.
Eccl 7:20 there is not a just man upon earth that doeth good and sinneth not.
OK, so VP did good and he also sinned. I have no problem with this concept. What I do have a problem with is that many on GSC have a "string attached" to their attacks on VP. Their premise, in a nut shell, is VP sinned therefore he did no good.
They can list his sins from here to the bema and beyond for all I care: PFAL made my life meaningful.
I have one question for why the emphasis on my age
CK
If you look up all my posts to you, you will see that I have said much, much, much, much, much, much, more to you than anything referring to your age. I have gently recommended that you go to your dad and ask for help in learning how to do a word study. I have asked you, for your own good to use a spell checker. I have told you what the word says. You only see what you want to see and disregard the rest.
Actually CK I don't really talk about your age all that much, but when I do, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt because I am trying to believe you to be young and full of "I know it all." That isn't necessarily a bad thing - but it is a common denomination with youth that most of here have lived through. Actually youth can be a very good thing - if there is wisdom. You are just coming out all full of pi$$ and vinegar. I dont' see you trying to learn. I see you trying to stir the pot, to make a flurry just so you can watch the show.
You see, I was just 2 years older than you when I took that class. (That is, IF your are who you say you are.) I ate it up. I knew it backwards and forwards within one year. You are here arguing without having even the most basic fundamentals down. You are defending a man that you don't even know. You are trying to match the glory of a good memory by YOUR PARENT'S standards against our OWN EXPERIENCES!
Now your parents may have had only good experiences - but you are trying to live them out by proxy (look it up.)
I remember lots and lots of good times. Lots and lots of great people. I took a pile of classes. I learned Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. I am greatful for the good things that I got from twi. That does not leave me ignorant to the harm that was done by the very same people that taught those classes.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really don't believe you are who you say you are. There are people here from the 9th Family Corps - do they know your parents?
So to repeat - I mentioned your age because I think that IF you are really 19 that you should be given some latitude (look it up.) I also believe that IF you are 19, you should know that the cockiness that you display right now will fade as you live life. You should read the parts of the Word that refer to mercy. (Yes there are a lot of them in the old testament - but the WHOLE Bible is for our learning. (If you really were a student of PFAL and vpw you would know that.)
You should show some compassion. You should grow up.
While you're deep in your studies, look up the Greek word, idios.
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templelady
Thought of something else while in the shower
Sometimes we post not so much as to inform, although that might be a side benefit
But we post because we just got the courage to haul that "lock box" out of the cobwebby corner of our minds, hack off the rusty corroded padlock, and are experiencing a catharsis as we finally expose the ugly contents to the light of day.
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ChattyKathy
Mark,
I don't wish to hide the passion of Christ from my view and I do to some degree because it makes my heart ache as if something real was going on right here and now. It is rather real to me I guess you might surmise then. For that act of great sacrifice to be put with any other man as an image is IMHO disrespectful. I don't care whose face appeared there if it weren't a rendition accepted as that of our lord and savior. Does it reflect what you feel this young man CK feels towards VP when he reads our words on this board? Perhaps so but if that is his perception let him keep it to himself. I didn't need to see his sickness. Thank you for the courtesy of disagreeing with you.
Kathy
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ckmkeon
I would have forgiven a person who is dead and I would have forgotten by now if I were part of the TWI
CK
Persecution of all believers that believe in VPW right now.
CK
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GrouchoMarxJr
I nominate ck for moron of the year award...
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ckmkeon
Thank you Thank you I will take my award now
CK
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mstar1
Step right up you earned it
Regarding Marks pic-well yes its offensive -so? TWI and Wierwille were at least as offensive as that pic--much more so in my book. Its just a picture--its not an actual rape--but it is true at its essence regarding what some think and an accurate reflection of Wierwilles narcissisitic self promoting theology---and thats what makes it relevant and worthwhile in my little booklet.
A picture is still worth a thousand words--that one to me was on the money
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dmiller
I agree.
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ckmkeon
Well while I get the moron award I nominated you for the blinded by the devil award.
CK
I agree also about the picture
CK
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ex10
Well, all I can say is that I too find the pic pretty offensive. For reasons cited above as well. I think it's in pretty poor taste. Somehow, it doesn't seem to me to be the best way to make a point.
Proverbs 18:19 comes to mind. But hey, just my opinion.
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rascal
You have been treated very VERY well ck.....as is most anybody who manages to communicate with respect and common decency.
Step over that line by calling folks here liars and minimalizing what was endured .... and don`t be suprised when you catch a little flack.
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doojable
Ck, believe me, it is sooooooo easy to say what you think you'll do when you're 19 and havent' had anything like any of these experiences touch your life.
You might not believe this, but I have forgiven VPW, LCM and the guy who tried to rape me - as he was taught by VPW.
Now, having forgiven them doesn't mean that I'm not still a bit well - peeved about it. It doesn't mean that I would trust either of the two that are still alive - that trust would have to earned over a very long period of time.
It is possible to forgive someone and still feel the need to talk about it. Forgive does not mean forget. WE all share some experiences that you simply are not privvy to. You weren't around when VPW was alive so you never saw the hatred in his eyes when he was totally pi ssed off. You never had LCM tell you you weren't worth the gunpowder it would take to blow you up.
Many of us here share that - we talk about it to get it out and begin to get it into perpesctive. You can't possibly know how that feels. -
You'll also notice that we also have some great times we talk about with each other. Look around and you'll find them - if you haven't found them its because you haven't looked. That would indicate that you are looking to find fault in us.
Remember the old saying (I'm not sure yu have heard it though)
To truly know a man (or woman) you must walk a mile in his (or her)shoes.
Live another 19 years and then tell me how it feels to have someone betray your trust.
Until then -
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allan w.
Yeah..the picture posted doesn't really exemplify a typical catholic reaction does it ?
Maybe a picture of VP with a condom over him dipped in urine ?
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dmiller
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ckmkeon
I have one question for why the emphasis on my age
CK
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dmiller
Simply this, CK ---
You haven't experienced what we have, personally.
Does that answer the question?? :)
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pond
i do agree with you on the age thing CK
they are not playing fair to say you do not know becausse your 19.
i happen to know some very wise and much less bitter young adults .
i think your age has very little to do with what your saying , it is just easy to pick on someone who is 19.
but the issue may be you really did not have the experience of so much trouble while trying to do what pfal taught. and you did not have a bad outcome of what he taught turn your life into choas and trouble and stress.
that is one reason why many have lost their desire to hear some of the stuff you say. they shut the ears .
some think about their own experience and think it has a little bit more authority than just soem stuff you may have read or heard from someone.
we are to be doers of the word, pfal will tell you that.
the doing of what the way ministry taught and did was a bother for many and that is why they may say you do not know what your talking about.
because you did not get involved in the "doing" what the way wanted done.
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dmiller
Pond --- I disagree. I happen to like CK, and have NEVER picked on him/her because of age.
What is being discussed here, has everything to do with experience, and not just *hearsay*, which is what CK is offering.
If ya weren't in the band, don't complain about someone else saying there were sour notes in the music.
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Tom Strange
Once again ckmckeon pond (mj) has also shown you that being older doesn't necessarily guarantee you a better grip on reality...
Your age does make some difference in that (as others have pointed out time and again) you weren't around to experience all of these things, you haven't been around long enough to have weathered some of the storms that we have (and hopefully you won't have to)... that and the fact that you come in here posting that you're only 19, have never met veepee and didn't know him, but you think he was the greatest thing since sliced bread...
Think about your relationship with your parents for a moment... you trust their judgement on things unknown to you don't you? Why? Because they've been around longer and have the luxury of experience to draw on...
But it has nothing to do with PFAL and doing it or not doing it... it has to do with a man who set himself up as THE man of God and proceeded to use that position to rape and steal... and then taught others to do likewise...
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
i know the older i got the smatter my father got
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Abigail
While I found the picture grotesque (sp), I also found it very appropriate for this thread. Although Mark could have put any number of our pictures there and it might have been even more appropriate. Having read a number of CK's posts, I'd say he is guilty of exactly what he accuses, except it is those who have been hurt he persecutes, instead of his precious.
as he said, he ONLY continues to come here BECAUSE of those who express their anger and hurt, the betrayal of VPW.
"The only thing I can say is "IF" VPW did this to any of you what makes you better to persecute him. Wouldn't it be better to be bigger than that and just forgive"
The above says so much about him. I guess my tag line sums it up well enough.
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satori001
I don't think the picture makes the point very well. It doesn't really offend me but it's so over the top it distracts from the point it's attempting to make, that McChickoen's assertion of VP's "persecution" here is absurd.
But crucifiction is so far beyond "persecution" that the picture becomes just as guilty of exaggeration as McChickoen.
It therefore fails to make its point effectively, in my opinion.
It's clear that McChickoen is "trolling" - but only for attention. This is his validation, such as it is. This is his "cause." Defending his mommy and daddy's religion.
I think we keep seeing references to his young age because McChickoen reminds many of us of teenage behavior (not all teenagers, but we all knew one like him), which is babyish, prankish, naive, antagonistic, and intentionally offensive, not to mention so badly argued that most of us would have to really TRY to sound that dumb, if that was our intention.
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ckmkeon
Although I am glad to hear the opinions on my age but the question was directed toward Dooj. That is all I hear from her.
CK
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johniam
Eccl 7:20 there is not a just man upon earth that doeth good and sinneth not.
OK, so VP did good and he also sinned. I have no problem with this concept. What I do have a problem with is that many on GSC have a "string attached" to their attacks on VP. Their premise, in a nut shell, is VP sinned therefore he did no good.
They can list his sins from here to the bema and beyond for all I care: PFAL made my life meaningful.
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doojable
If you look up all my posts to you, you will see that I have said much, much, much, much, much, much, more to you than anything referring to your age. I have gently recommended that you go to your dad and ask for help in learning how to do a word study. I have asked you, for your own good to use a spell checker. I have told you what the word says. You only see what you want to see and disregard the rest.
Actually CK I don't really talk about your age all that much, but when I do, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt because I am trying to believe you to be young and full of "I know it all." That isn't necessarily a bad thing - but it is a common denomination with youth that most of here have lived through. Actually youth can be a very good thing - if there is wisdom. You are just coming out all full of pi$$ and vinegar. I dont' see you trying to learn. I see you trying to stir the pot, to make a flurry just so you can watch the show.
You see, I was just 2 years older than you when I took that class. (That is, IF your are who you say you are.) I ate it up. I knew it backwards and forwards within one year. You are here arguing without having even the most basic fundamentals down. You are defending a man that you don't even know. You are trying to match the glory of a good memory by YOUR PARENT'S standards against our OWN EXPERIENCES!
Now your parents may have had only good experiences - but you are trying to live them out by proxy (look it up.)
I remember lots and lots of good times. Lots and lots of great people. I took a pile of classes. I learned Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. I am greatful for the good things that I got from twi. That does not leave me ignorant to the harm that was done by the very same people that taught those classes.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really don't believe you are who you say you are. There are people here from the 9th Family Corps - do they know your parents?
So to repeat - I mentioned your age because I think that IF you are really 19 that you should be given some latitude (look it up.) I also believe that IF you are 19, you should know that the cockiness that you display right now will fade as you live life. You should read the parts of the Word that refer to mercy. (Yes there are a lot of them in the old testament - but the WHOLE Bible is for our learning. (If you really were a student of PFAL and vpw you would know that.)
You should show some compassion. You should grow up.
While you're deep in your studies, look up the Greek word, idios.
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