The "doubt" that led to my "downfall" was the apprentice corps had to have a physical before going to any of the campus locations (including staff, not just corps). The physician I picked from the phone book, told me that they would not fill out the form unless I confirmed the tests they wanted. I called the corps office - yes, they were all correct. Went back for the form to be finished - and it was. The doctor then had a long discussion with me asking why, why, why ----why does a "Christian" group need to screen candidates for sexually transmitted diseases? Why are NONE of the tests related to general health. Each test was gone over this way. I told my husband - who put me in place for asking questions, and off to HQ we headed. Everything since that appointment was filtered through a questioning mind - I finally left TWI (which also ended the marriage).
Everything about the way was twisted .... screened for std's ?!?!? "Spiritual" reasonss????
Trust me, the kids and I are better off, though the transition was tough (ya know - single mom, no life or work skills, too many kids, homeless).
The "doubt" that led to my "downfall" was the apprentice corps had to have a physical before going to any of the campus locations (including staff, not just corps).
(snip)
The doctor then had a long discussion with me asking why, why, why ----why does a "Christian" group need to screen candidates for sexually transmitted diseases?
Why are NONE of the tests related to general health.
(snip)
I can see the sense of having a general checkup and being in general physical health
before entering a program like the way corps-although not for STAFF.
However, that's NOT what you had- your tests SKIPPED all the ones for general health-
and instead focused on the ones for sexually-transmitte diseases.
WHY would a supposed "Christian" ministry- one which supposedly isn't interested in bringing
people on-campus to rape them, coerce them or trick them into having sex,
skipping general health tests and ONLY giving the ones for STDs?
I can even understand a general checkup for staff - IF the person was going to be covered by a group insurance plan. But only tests to check for STDs... that is highly suspicious.
When I was getting my "medical" done, there's the one about smear tests. The doctor read this and clearly thought it was a weird request and he didn't bother to do the test, just asked me generally if I had cause for concern about this and the other questions and then signed off.
This sort of information is usually disclosed on a doctor to doctor basis and not made available to non-doctors and I was concerned about who might see it, not that I had or have now any health issues of any kind.
For myself, I thought the questions/tests were far too personal and intrusive. But as an international, I thought these were perhaps standard sort of questions for US applicants to colleges (after all, aren't blood tests necessary before a couple gets married?). I didn't particularly review what tests they were or notice they were for STDs.
I guess now they might demand to know your HIV status. To see if you are a homo/homo sympathizer, not so they could pray for healing for you.
This is not quite a "twisted scripture." But can somebody please tell me the scripture ref where it says that JC demanded health records of his disciples when he called them? Or did he know they were okay by some special revelation?
Tonto~ I don't remember anything like this either, and I went in-rez early 80's.
Twinky~ It sounds to me like the focus wasn't related to the "homo-purge", but more a screening of "viable candidates for free sex without that particular ramification (STD). " Just my opinion.
Another TWISTED aspect of several years of corps indoctrination.........assigning TWO married couples to a 12' by 14' bedroom. IMO, that's twisted.
Marriage is to be a unique relationship on so many levels. When husbands and wives are deprived of this personal space, communication, companionship, intimacy.......how does THAT add to the "Christian experience" of the inresidence program???
Couldn't someone figure out the number of bedrooms available at Emporia......and the number of corps applicants, and married couples.......AND THEN, do the math???
Was Money, Money, Money the bottom line to cramming the corps into these campuses??
I can corroborate this, I went into the Corps in the mid 80's and the physical with an STD test was required before entry I was not an international person either. Â
At the time, I thought the reason why they asked for this was related to a story I hadÂ
heard about that someone in rez at Emporia had been healed of AID's. Â
I thought it was weird that they asked, but also assummed it related to so many people
living together like that, I knew nothing about the leadership's predilection toward sexual predation.
There are SO many things that, in hindsight, were wierd, but I, too, gave the benefit of the doubt and wrote them off. Now that I'm able to think critically again, I ask, for instance regarding this STD screening, "What the heck?"
There are SO many things that, in hindsight, were wierd, but I, too, gave the benefit of the doubt and wrote them off. Now that I'm able to think critically again, I ask, for instance regarding this STD screening, "What the heck?"
~Cinder
Yeah.......SO many things in hindsight.
Like.....sitting on the damn floor for TWO hours (another meeting AFTER a meeting) with drooning ego-sharing.
Or........wierwille calling for a *pajama party* and sleeping on the floor in top-floor wierwille library.
Or........mal-pack conspiracy theories, but really NO spiritual insight to explain things.
Or........singing Father Abraham while acting in an epileptic manner. Hated it from the get-go.
Or........meal sharings, announcements, etc. in excess....thus, suppressing conversational time with others.
Or........menial jobs like pulling weeds or mowing grass and having corps coordinators LAUD ITS IMPACT TO MOVING GOD'S WORD OVER THE WORLD.
Went in rez 78 or so. Vaguely remember physicals. AIDs not much around then though. But, hey, backupaminute. Two Married Couples sharing a room? What the hey???? Where did that happen? Not Rome City, however, someone did just walk into our room one night when we happened to be playing house, and I'll leave the rest to your imagination. If you'd all like a laugh, go to medication1.wmv. HILARIOUS.
There was a short hallway on the third floor in Rome City (the hall where the little kitchen was located) which had I think about 4-5 bedrooms and one bathroom. One sink, two stalls and a glassed in tub-shower combination. The stalls had wide gaps between the panels, and it was a favorite place for my adolescent son to lurk to try to see women in the shower. I had to haul his butt out of there a time or two. It was a COED bath, meaning if you are in the shower, or brushing your teeth, or using the toilet, any man could come in and do whatever with you still in there. When I found out about this, I about threw up. There were other, much larger bathrooms around the corner on the main hall, but we were informed we were not allowed to shower in the women's restroom there, the coed bath was ours, and we were to "renew our minds" and use it.
What great deep spiritual insight was I supposed to gain from having some man I don't know come into the bathroom and plop down on a toilet next to me? Plus the fact that some guy did so while I was in the shower, and stayed in there forever, attempting to carry on a conversation with me all the time. It was the longest damn shower I took while I was there, as there was no way I was exiting the shower until he left. I suspected he was doing the same thing my son did, trying to get a glimpse through the opaque glass enclosure.
We didn't spend much time there, we were dismissed not too long after the move to that hall, but I spent most of it trying to figure out how to get a shower when no one else was around. It was the most bizarre situation I had been in. My own husband respects my privacy in the bathroom, and here I am supposed to have a strange man in there with me showering? And chat while I shower and he sits on the throne?
And that's supposed to be normal? Spiritual? Okay?
Sitting in the BRC (in 1980?) during one of those corps-sharing times......only THIS time, vpw had five or six corps up front who had returned from The Tracker School. After plenty of preliminary stuff.....ie the inrez corps guy led off with his spiel for about 10 minutes, letting wierwille sit back until the meeting got going.....then wierwille starts. He talks about the importance of learning, learning from anyone who is an expert in their field and all that. Thus, he felt it was important for these corps to attend The Tracker School.
Well......all was fine as the corps shared some of the neat things they had learned.....UNTIL one LEAD-type corps guy shared how this Tracker Guy was amazing!! In fact, his perception and awareness of his surroundings, and life itself, was truly jaw-dropping. This Tracker Guy was unbelievable.....etc. SUDDENLY.....wierwille lashes into this corps guy with a vicious venom that I'd never seen before. Wierwille was livid.......and all of us in the BRC were stunned by his outlandish outbursts!!!
As this venom escalated, wierwille glared at this corps guy and said that he was POZZEZZED......yep, he has spirits in his braincells. The corps guy stood his ground. It seemed like everyone in the BRC had stopped breathing. You could cut the tension in the room with a knife. In public view, wierwille was on the spot.....and this corps guy didn't seem to flinch. What was wierwille to do???? Yell some more......visibly fume.....and stomp out.
You tell me what you think about wierwille.....and I'll tell you ANOTHER side of the man.
At a similiar type of sharing at Emporia, one gal was sharing on "the Tracker guy" and how sharp he was. She said something to the effect that he knew how to sneak up on someone. Vp was at lunch that day and all of a sudden we heard him come over a separate mike,
"He could never sneak up on me. Father would tell me." The woman just shut up and looked embarassed. The reason for her sharing had just been taken away from her.
Not the same kind of face-melting, but still quite embarassing.
It didn't matter what he was promoting because ultimately vp was always promoting himself.
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cc ray
The "doubt" that led to my "downfall" was the apprentice corps had to have a physical before going to any of the campus locations (including staff, not just corps). The physician I picked from the phone book, told me that they would not fill out the form unless I confirmed the tests they wanted. I called the corps office - yes, they were all correct. Went back for the form to be finished - and it was. The doctor then had a long discussion with me asking why, why, why ----why does a "Christian" group need to screen candidates for sexually transmitted diseases? Why are NONE of the tests related to general health. Each test was gone over this way. I told my husband - who put me in place for asking questions, and off to HQ we headed. Everything since that appointment was filtered through a questioning mind - I finally left TWI (which also ended the marriage).
Everything about the way was twisted .... screened for std's ?!?!? "Spiritual" reasonss????
Trust me, the kids and I are better off, though the transition was tough (ya know - single mom, no life or work skills, too many kids, homeless).
I'M SO THANKFUL - TO BE FREE
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WordWolf
I can see the sense of having a general checkup and being in general physical health
before entering a program like the way corps-although not for STAFF.
However, that's NOT what you had- your tests SKIPPED all the ones for general health-
and instead focused on the ones for sexually-transmitte diseases.
WHY would a supposed "Christian" ministry- one which supposedly isn't interested in bringing
people on-campus to rape them, coerce them or trick them into having sex,
skipping general health tests and ONLY giving the ones for STDs?
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doojable
I can even understand a general checkup for staff - IF the person was going to be covered by a group insurance plan. But only tests to check for STDs... that is highly suspicious.
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Twinky
When I was getting my "medical" done, there's the one about smear tests. The doctor read this and clearly thought it was a weird request and he didn't bother to do the test, just asked me generally if I had cause for concern about this and the other questions and then signed off.
This sort of information is usually disclosed on a doctor to doctor basis and not made available to non-doctors and I was concerned about who might see it, not that I had or have now any health issues of any kind.
For myself, I thought the questions/tests were far too personal and intrusive. But as an international, I thought these were perhaps standard sort of questions for US applicants to colleges (after all, aren't blood tests necessary before a couple gets married?). I didn't particularly review what tests they were or notice they were for STDs.
I guess now they might demand to know your HIV status. To see if you are a homo/homo sympathizer, not so they could pray for healing for you.
This is not quite a "twisted scripture." But can somebody please tell me the scripture ref where it says that JC demanded health records of his disciples when he called them? Or did he know they were okay by some special revelation?
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tonto
I must have blanked this out. Did they require these medical exams in the 70's and early 80's? Sheesh!
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cinderpelt
Tonto~ I don't remember anything like this either, and I went in-rez early 80's.
Twinky~ It sounds to me like the focus wasn't related to the "homo-purge", but more a screening of "viable candidates for free sex without that particular ramification (STD). " Just my opinion.
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doojable
I didn't need a physical to enter in '79.
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skyrider
Another TWISTED aspect of several years of corps indoctrination.........assigning TWO married couples to a 12' by 14' bedroom. IMO, that's twisted.
Marriage is to be a unique relationship on so many levels. When husbands and wives are deprived of this personal space, communication, companionship, intimacy.......how does THAT add to the "Christian experience" of the inresidence program???
Couldn't someone figure out the number of bedrooms available at Emporia......and the number of corps applicants, and married couples.......AND THEN, do the math???
Was Money, Money, Money the bottom line to cramming the corps into these campuses??
Thankfully, I was single during my inrez years.
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cinderpelt
Indeed! As a single, I'd rather have slept on a cot, doubled-up in Emporia or Owens Hall than to have married couples sharing rooms. Good grief!
But, by then, (11th?) the sacredness of the marriage had already been grossly compromised and undermined.
~Cinder
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now I see
I can corroborate this, I went into the Corps in the mid 80's and the physical with an STD test was required before entry I was not an international person either. Â
At the time, I thought the reason why they asked for this was related to a story I hadÂ
heard about that someone in rez at Emporia had been healed of AID's. Â
I thought it was weird that they asked, but also assummed it related to so many people
living together like that, I knew nothing about the leadership's predilection toward sexual predation.
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cinderpelt
There are SO many things that, in hindsight, were wierd, but I, too, gave the benefit of the doubt and wrote them off. Now that I'm able to think critically again, I ask, for instance regarding this STD screening, "What the heck?"
~Cinder
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skyrider
Yeah.......SO many things in hindsight.
Like.....sitting on the damn floor for TWO hours (another meeting AFTER a meeting) with drooning ego-sharing.
Or........wierwille calling for a *pajama party* and sleeping on the floor in top-floor wierwille library.
Or........mal-pack conspiracy theories, but really NO spiritual insight to explain things.
Or........singing Father Abraham while acting in an epileptic manner. Hated it from the get-go.
Or........meal sharings, announcements, etc. in excess....thus, suppressing conversational time with others.
Or........menial jobs like pulling weeds or mowing grass and having corps coordinators LAUD ITS IMPACT TO MOVING GOD'S WORD OVER THE WORLD.
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irisheyes
Went in rez 78 or so. Vaguely remember physicals. AIDs not much around then though. But, hey, backupaminute. Two Married Couples sharing a room? What the hey???? Where did that happen? Not Rome City, however, someone did just walk into our room one night when we happened to be playing house, and I'll leave the rest to your imagination. If you'd all like a laugh, go to medication1.wmv. HILARIOUS.
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rhino
As I recall, 9th corps they shared a bathroom ... but singles had 4 or 20 in a room, and 80 to a bathroom ...
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irisheyes
Medication1.wmv
Sorry previous cite was wrong. Try this one above.
Just can't get it right. Will try something else. It's a good one.
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rhino
well tequila is good
but drambuie seemed to work as well, and somehow allows you to avoid the incarceration part ... though may lead to an early grave
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coolchef
imo tw had no respect for the average joe belivers marrage what so ever
i spent my 15th weddind anniversery at gunnison {ac} and my then wife were in seperate quarters.
real nice ,huh?oh need i mention the viscster triede to bed my wife that week
he was a pig .period
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Watered Garden
There was a short hallway on the third floor in Rome City (the hall where the little kitchen was located) which had I think about 4-5 bedrooms and one bathroom. One sink, two stalls and a glassed in tub-shower combination. The stalls had wide gaps between the panels, and it was a favorite place for my adolescent son to lurk to try to see women in the shower. I had to haul his butt out of there a time or two. It was a COED bath, meaning if you are in the shower, or brushing your teeth, or using the toilet, any man could come in and do whatever with you still in there. When I found out about this, I about threw up. There were other, much larger bathrooms around the corner on the main hall, but we were informed we were not allowed to shower in the women's restroom there, the coed bath was ours, and we were to "renew our minds" and use it.
What great deep spiritual insight was I supposed to gain from having some man I don't know come into the bathroom and plop down on a toilet next to me? Plus the fact that some guy did so while I was in the shower, and stayed in there forever, attempting to carry on a conversation with me all the time. It was the longest damn shower I took while I was there, as there was no way I was exiting the shower until he left. I suspected he was doing the same thing my son did, trying to get a glimpse through the opaque glass enclosure.
We didn't spend much time there, we were dismissed not too long after the move to that hall, but I spent most of it trying to figure out how to get a shower when no one else was around. It was the most bizarre situation I had been in. My own husband respects my privacy in the bathroom, and here I am supposed to have a strange man in there with me showering? And chat while I shower and he sits on the throne?
And that's supposed to be normal? Spiritual? Okay?
WG
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coolchef
just plain sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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rascal
Guys, I have nothing to add, other than I am just really really sorry that this happened to people who simply wanted to serve God :(
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Tom Strange
...and yet people think we were in some sort of "special" club...
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skyrider
There I was.....
Sitting in the BRC (in 1980?) during one of those corps-sharing times......only THIS time, vpw had five or six corps up front who had returned from The Tracker School. After plenty of preliminary stuff.....ie the inrez corps guy led off with his spiel for about 10 minutes, letting wierwille sit back until the meeting got going.....then wierwille starts. He talks about the importance of learning, learning from anyone who is an expert in their field and all that. Thus, he felt it was important for these corps to attend The Tracker School.
Well......all was fine as the corps shared some of the neat things they had learned.....UNTIL one LEAD-type corps guy shared how this Tracker Guy was amazing!! In fact, his perception and awareness of his surroundings, and life itself, was truly jaw-dropping. This Tracker Guy was unbelievable.....etc. SUDDENLY.....wierwille lashes into this corps guy with a vicious venom that I'd never seen before. Wierwille was livid.......and all of us in the BRC were stunned by his outlandish outbursts!!!
As this venom escalated, wierwille glared at this corps guy and said that he was POZZEZZED......yep, he has spirits in his braincells. The corps guy stood his ground. It seemed like everyone in the BRC had stopped breathing. You could cut the tension in the room with a knife. In public view, wierwille was on the spot.....and this corps guy didn't seem to flinch. What was wierwille to do???? Yell some more......visibly fume.....and stomp out.
You tell me what you think about wierwille.....and I'll tell you ANOTHER side of the man.
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doojable
At a similiar type of sharing at Emporia, one gal was sharing on "the Tracker guy" and how sharp he was. She said something to the effect that he knew how to sneak up on someone. Vp was at lunch that day and all of a sudden we heard him come over a separate mike,
"He could never sneak up on me. Father would tell me." The woman just shut up and looked embarassed. The reason for her sharing had just been taken away from her.
Not the same kind of face-melting, but still quite embarassing.
It didn't matter what he was promoting because ultimately vp was always promoting himself.
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Oakspear
Yet more testimonies regarding how Martindale got the way he was.
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