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And he says all that with a great big smile on his face, and something of a chuckle in his voice. Love the way he says, TWI wants to help people become debt-free. I bet they have no idea of preparing a proper budget (a genuine budget to help a needy family that can hardly feed and clothe the kids), making arrangements with creditors for full or partial repayment on terms, what state or other benefits the people might be entitled to; and getting effective help from charities, power companies and other like organisations. I have helped hundreds of people become debt-free and I love doing it. I just don't need to shout about it. I've seen folks come into my office, crying and weighed down with worry, and clutching bags of unopened letters from creditors and maybe courts, fearful of the knock on the door and of answering the phone; quite literally sick with worry. No food in the cupboard, and with what little money there is left, making the choice between "heat" and "eat" (and exactly who eats) - a difficult choice, in midwinter. And I've seen those same people walk out a couple of hours later, still crying, but this time from joy - because someone listened, cared enough, and helped them make a real plan to get out of their debts, calmed their creditors, and gave them a fresh start. Oh, and also some food vouchers or a Foodbank pass, and perhaps also a little money on their utility bill so that there could be a little warmth in the home. I don't see where TWI has suddenly got the expertise to do that. TWI's idea is: give us your money because if you don't pay your dues to God, ie, TWI, God won't even spit in your direction (as if God ever spat on anyone!). Pay us and somehow your debts will magically go away. Yeah, right.

Hi Beguiled, I am blown away by your openness and honesty! That’s a tough situation with your parents choosing TWI over you - I hope something works out down the road. Not that you are part of the problem – but rather you are part of the solution – because they are the ones still stuck in the rabbit hole of a bizarre mindset…There’s something so hypocritical about TWI claiming that PFAL develops more harmony in the home (as stated on the back of the green PFAL sign-up card) and yet – truth be told - many longstanding grads found themselves in ultimatum-type-situations…with the pressure of TWI leadership challenging…or rather demanding one choose between “The Word” or family/friends/spouse. I was neither a victim nor a predator in TWI – but I was in training to be a good facilitator in Family Corps 11. Facilitate: make (an action or process) easy or easier; aid; expedite, promote, grease the wheels; open doors. Without all their trained flunkies – I mean facilitators – I wonder where would TWI be now? I left in 1986 – during our corps field assignment year – so I never did graduate – I began addressing the mounting doubts and questions I had. And as I talked to others who had left – and then later joining Grease Spot in 2006 - it was always the accounts of moral depravity that were deeply troubling – and still are to me. Maybe initially it was over intellectual or doctrinal reasons that I left – but getting really pi$$ed off at the hypocrisy and corruption sealed the deal for me…That’s one of the reasons why I keep posting on Grease Spot and why I think posts like yours, Lifted Up and others are so important – in hope that something said will lodge a question or doubt…resonate… and gain traction in the mind of some good little old facilitator who visits Grease Spot – and maybe they then take stock of their commitments and what kind of organization they’ve been promoting…and if they leave that’s one less flunky to grease the wheels of an abusive cult. You mentioned covid – I have to say one of the things we’ve been doing lately during the pandemic is looking at some old home videos of vacations and visiting relatives - all these videos were made AFTER we left TWI…(on a side note – when we were in TWI we never took vacations or rarely visited relatives due to lack of money or time for such “worldly things”)…anyway - aside from enjoying the videos of typical scenic and fun stuff while on vacations – we really got into some of the “break times” - some might even say boring stuff – like being in a motel by Lake Murray State Park in Oklahoma…I’m videoing the kids jumping all over the beds…but missed it when our daughter fell off the bed and hurts her hand (nothing serious though)…so our son immediately becomes a channel 11 reporter at the scene - addresses the camera and holding a pretend microphone begins to tell us what happened and then proceeds to reenact the whole incident – even doing his own stunt I might add…we would just die laughing watching simple stuff like that – and so thankful we left TWI and chose to put our family first. I wish you, your new child and the rest of your family the best and hope you get to make lots of good memories.

Oh, so if they change the no-debt policy is that like saying "Ooops, sorry, didn't mean it. Sorry you lost out on equity and a credit rating. Sorry if you sold your house to go live in a rental. Sorry some of you got kicked out over this. We didn't really mean it after all".

Hey, that must have been cool when Martindale said the word was over the world. "I don't have to witness at Wondermall anymore!!!"

Regarding Beguiled's mention of Martindale cancelling WOW that year - WHAT AN A-HOLE!!! (Martindale that is) What total DISREGARD for all the plans, sacrifices and inconvenient changes people had to make in their lives to go WOW. Then they get to the ROCK and it's "Ooops sorry, it's a no-go. Guess you'll just have to figure out what else to do now". What an A-hole. He could just drive his fancy car back to the Corps Chalet and congratulate himself on the great spiritual stand he just took against the devil. What an A-hole.

Beguiled, thank you for your post. I am sure, it wasn't easy to write. I am old enough to be your mother. I had a very unhappy childhood, and blamed my mother for a lot of the terrible S--t, that happened to me. Much of this S--t happened over 50 years ago. I have had many therapists over the years; some were good, some weren't. However, the therapist I have now is by far, the best one I have ever had. I have had him for over a year, and the VA is paying him for another year of therapy for me. Also, I have a wonderful Doctor who monitors my meds for me. In my experience, therapy and medication has been a huge help in overcoming the anger I had at my mother, and other family members. I wish you well on your journey to health, and happiness.

Posted: August 4, 2020 "So, now.......why won't twi's board of directors relent on their "no-debt" doctrine? Why do they vault themselves into the position over YOUR FINANCIAL AFFAIRS? What gives them the damn right to invade your space, your personal decision-making? INDOCTRINATION. The cult rulers have pushed and confronted you for years, decades. They've wormed their way into every fabric of your life.......twi is a cult. They do NOT want you to gain independence. They do NOT want you to gain more prosperity and build equity and advance forward. They want to subjugate you." Six weeks later..........twi's no-debt mandate has been waived for their 2021 Advanced Class students and grad class. Could it be that too many people have been visiting this GSC site and voicing dissent with twi's policies and subjugation? Or, twi NEEDS to waive this policy to jump-start activity from years of hemorrhaging? This policy has been in place since 1994........and NOW, they changed it. BOOM. .

Beguiled, it's my time, and energy. I love reading the various posts on the GSC. Some I agree with, some I don't. But, even with those I disagree with, I still find the posts interesting. I personally had no idea of all the drama, that went on in TWI, until I read all the posts here. Back when I was in TWI, everything was Moonlight, and Roses, or so it seemed. However, since I started reading the posts here at the GSC, I have learned that TWI, f--cked over tons of it's people in various ways. For many of us, we spent our youth, money, and energy in various TWI programs. Youth, money, and energy, we could have used in better ways. I had some great times in TWI, but I also had some problems. I think the GSC is a wonderful, and healthy way to discuss TWI, and what it meant to various people.

That says it all !!!!!!! That rings true when I think of my latter years of preparing to go in the way corps and then being in the program – what stands out in reference to what you said and what WordWolf posted are not just the teachings against murmuring but also how we should follow in blind obedience – as reflected in the excerpt from WordWolf’s posting of Craig’s staff meeting: Something else that goes along with the idea of not questioning or challenging leadership was how TWI got you to shut down YOUR thinking process. You were not encouraged to think but to absorb - another excerpt from WordWolf's post on Craig's staff meeting: I think this is one of The Way International’s (as well as many other cult’s) tried-and-true methods to get followers to drink the Kool-Aid – teaching you that you can’t go by your sense-knowledge…guess I was too much of a simpleton when I first took PFAL – because I took the claims on the back of the PFAL sign-up card so literally; and more often than not when I complained about NOT seeing those claims of the class pan out – I’d get some obfuscating explanation from those who under-shepherded me or some leader – it’s because I wasn’t really believing…I wasn’t spending more time reviewing the books and collaterals from PFAL…I wasn’t renewing my mind…blah, blah, blah…In retrospect I see the obvious pattern there – it was always MY fault …some shortcoming on my part – God forbid there was anything wrong with what was taught in PFAL. I admire folks who have always had a personal vision and method during their journey through life. Since I didn't have that - I believe that was probably part of my Achilles heel – that got me sucked in; I stuck around for so long because of wierwille's grand vision of word over the world – that I could be a part of something bigger than myself and that I would have all the answers pertaining to life and godliness…Your post made me reflect once again on what I got out of my TWI experience – what valid things I learned and the good people I met – one of them is my wife Tonto –and we’re still together! I was raised Roman Catholic but I had no interest in studying the Bible - and back then other than catechism and the stuff Catholic grammar school taught for my confirmation - whether it was in school or at Mass, there really was no teaching on doctrine, theology in general or even how to study the Bible . That void in a young Christian's life leaves one ripe for picking by a pseudo-Christian con artist... It may be a simple thing but I was really impressed and inspired to open the Bible after seeing folks my own age and with no formal training, teach from the Bible at Twig. Granted, their teachings were just regurgitated wierwille stuff and there’s a lot of things that I no longer agree with now – but at the time, that initial experience of seeing them read and teach from the Bible...and that it made sense to my uniformed mind...and that it didn't appear to be some mysterious or difficult thing for them to do that, really got me…AND I admired their dive-right-in attitude...they seemed to have had a vision and a method down pat. So it wasn’t that TWI activated my faith which was already there, being raised in a Christian home – but TWI got me started in a new phase of my journey – having a vision and a plan…a method…So I began using THEIR one-map-fits-all…Since I left TWI I’ve come to realize how important it is to fully engage my reasoning and emotions as I continue to revise MY OWN map...Yes, I learned some good stuff while in TWI - but what dwarfs all that is what I learned after I left TWI - that it's important for me to take an active role in developing my belief system, personal priorities and worldview and not just accept without question a certain mindset that's handed to me …in a way, my Grease Spot experience is kind of a reverse of my early Twig experience. Now I tend to think reading and understanding so much of the Bible is perhaps even more difficult than what I was led to believe in TWI – with their pat answers, and the weird combo of fundamentalism and wierwille’s egocentric theology. I love the freedom to think that's encouraged at Grease Spot and the freedom to reflect and consider the perspectives of others; And, somewhat like my early Twig experience it has taken some of the mystery out of “philosophizing” on my journey - that it's okay to actually think and have a lot of questions and doubts... to enjoy life and appreciate the folks that cross my path... there’s a lot more latitude in my thoughts and feelings and of course much more self-direction when it comes to how I process stuff and revise my map. And it’s not just when reading the Bible but reading or thinking about anything else. == == == Thanks Skyrider, WordWolf and Socks – I have always wondered how they got from pursuing the goal of word over the world to the prevailing word… so remember kids, in a make-believe world anything can happen....anyway, great stuff in your posts - - and I wanted an excuse to add my 2 cents

Still can.

Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980? Of course.....twi's practices have been self-serving.....and only self-serving......for a long, long time. It didn't have to end this way (spiraling down to its doom). It seems to me, those years 1977-1979 were ripe with outreach and "Word in Culture." With musical groups and outreach......some professional athletes from the NFL and tennis were taking pfal. A professional bull-riding clown took the stage to speak at roa. Doctors, professionals and business people were coming on board. When the 1979 Rock of Ages came around......there was an arts, music and crafts tent for the sole purpose of purchasing merchandise from other believers and enhancing Word in Culture. Another tent was set aside for an evening "Dinner Theatre"...... where you pre-purchased a ticket for dinner and a theatrical performance (following the big top teaching). Imagine that! Yeah, imagine that. There was more to this event than just the pilgrimage to the Big Top to hear Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille teach another sermon. The spotlight was no longer solely on the cult leader on main stage. Imagine the possibilities. "Word in Culture" was the growing buzz-word. The fire had been lit.....and the flame was growing. The tent was a-buzz with believers selling their wares to others All kinds of music groups and solo artists were popping up. Cassette tapes of Lisa Lochridge and Dave Lutz were flying off the shelves. Not the "Way Productions sanctioned music" that was promoted from the main stage.......but the upcoming singers that were putting out good songs. Simple, down-to-earth music from the heart. This "Word in Culture" sparked a short-lived movement of enterprise from the bottom up.........NOT from the top down. Musicians, composers, writers, short-stories, artists, cartoonists, sculptors, screen-printers, etc.......lots of energy on the rise. Medical WOWs.........nurses, doctors, interns, administrative types. Another arm of outreach. Military WOWs..........Paul Norcr0ss headed up medical outreach and worked alongside the Trunk Office and International Outreach to help military personnel stationed throughout parts of the world. Some military guys were given special exceptions for corps training and/or their corps assignment. Why is any of this important now? There was a short window in time when twi almost (maybe?) broke from its cult-trajectory and let people live freely. That short time frame of "Word in Culture"........was closed back down, because twi could NOT control its outcome. By 1980 Rock of Ages......there was no tent set aside for buying/selling other believers' merchadise. Songs, wording and content HAD to be pre-approved and filtered thru upper cult management. Many of the hippie-types saw the writing on the wall.........and left. And, yeah.........add coerced-corps labor during in-residence training into the mix. Then, heap a mandatory "corps week" on them so that all corps are required EVERY YEAR to attend.....and don't leave until the Rock of Ages is over. This burdened the corps exponentially.......financially, family responsibilities, work/career challenges, nearly 3 weeks away from work each year, keeping corps from promotions or career paths, etc. etc. The Way International has refused to learn the lessons of yesteryear ...........for 4 decades !!! This story didn't start in 2000 with Rosalie.........it started a long, long, long time ago. .

Beguiled, I hope you find comfort here amongst many of us who know and understand the truth of what you're saying. Thank you for trusting the goodwill of GSC folks to open your heart like you did. It grieves me to learn what happened to you. And saddens me that your family rejects you to cling to TWI. Empathy is not the easiest thing to convey in an online post, but you can be sure you have it coming from me. Wishing you the best with your new child and creating a life of love and joy!

@Lifted Up My post in this thread is the first time I've ever let the universe know about what happened. I was in FC 18 if anyone was there or knows anyone from that time. I know the exact person who did it and her entire family is still strongly in TWI as far as I know. "Saying" those words in an internet forum to complete strangers made me reach out to my brother who is younger than me and I told him about it. All he said was he knew I've been dealt bad cards my whole life and didn't even want to talk about it. I am 6 months shy of 40 and haven't cried this much in decades, or ever. Clearly a valve opened up, but the lack of understanding from my family has been devastating. I can't even talk to my parents because they are still "going strong" in TWI. Looking back it is clear that it is this one incident that fractured my entire family by making me pull inside myself. In turn I started acting out against my parents and started bullying my brother. I almost feel worse for my brother now, he has no love in his heart because of my reaction to being raped and how I treated him afterward. He literally told me he doesn't understand why people need family and love and support. I died inside. He is more scarred than I. I am the typical older sibling who has jumped from career to career and he is extremely rich/wealthy now through a very hard work ethic because of my bullying. Ironically he is the exact type of person I despise and believe are ruining the world and I had no idea. I've confronted my parents about other things regarding TWI throughout the years and my mother just defends everything in typical fashion by turning a blind eye or citing the same bs we all know and have heard a million times. And for the record, my incident occurred while my parents were on LEAD as well. I remember because I balled my eyes out as I was scared for my parents being alone and hitchhiking for a week. Even at a young age I knew you could get the same experiences doing something much safer. But wtf do I know? I quit a teaching job at a university right before covid hit as they were about to give me tenure so I could be the stay at home parent for my first born. (Don't feel bad for me it was a good decision.) I decided to have a child finally because I realized how miserable I have been chasing money and having no love in my life. It was and is scary but I am so grateful I had the self awareness to go against the grain of what society thinks I should do. It has taken me 3 decades to be able to love another human being, and I am grateful that I'm late to the party instead of missing it entirely. TWI definitely engrained into me that what people think of you matters and you better fit in or else you aren't welcome. (Eventually I was marked and avoided!) Now at almost 40, everyday I have to wake up and fight what society expects and instead do what is good for me. I've never done anything good for myself and I don't even know if I know how. But I'm trying. I'm trying real hard to keep it together. (I have so much anger that my parents always pick TWI over me even as I write this. Any help on letting that go would be greatly appreciated.)

After three years..........what has the R&R group done? In May 2017, they had that Q&A Facebook Session..........only to "circle the wagons" in their own defense. Touting their "Revival and Restoration" mantle.......what have they "revived?" What have they "restored?" Does their little weekly echo chamber have any relevance to anyone besides themselves? Anyone listening outside their little circle jerk? Seems like few care. Very few comments. When will they stop the merry-go-round and look around? Why have corps and clergy been exiting (escaping) from twi since 1976? Why did all of wierwille's corps letters lament, over and over, that corps were exiting twi and moving on in life? Were all of these corps and clergy "cop-outs?" Were they possessed with devil spirits like wierwille said? Surely, one can think deeper that spewing back the wierwille sound bytes of yesteryear, no? Instead of teaching the same old "doctrine" for the thousandth time......why not try a different approach. Stop and think about it for a week.....at least. There are reasons why wierwille's organization died quickly on the vine......because it was not connected to the vine [John 15:5]. The Lord Jesus Christ. He is the vine. But hey.......go ahead with your little weekly (weakly) sermons of relevance. Hopefully, you don't lose another decade in the process. Or........pull your head......er, hand out of that coconut and get busy LIVING !!! .

I didn't know rattlesnakes could live that long.

Hi Rubina I just wanted to add my 2 cents - my wife and I enjoy watching talk shows and even the latest SNL that are now all produced from their homes. We’ll get into noticing the décor of their homes, knick knacks on the shelves, their casual attire and it’s always amusing to see the creative ways they’ll have guests and musicians get “together” and interact via Zoom meetings. That would be a great way for TWI top leadership to stay in touch with folks…but the more I think about it – the transparency aspect of it might get a little dicey. Then I began to imagine if wierwille was still alive – he’d be schlepping around in his underwear, guzzling Drambuie, chain smoking a pack of Kools…there’d be a bunch of porn videos sitting out on one of the shelves behind him - - oh wait - he used to do that anyway when I was in residence.

Ain't that the truth! How it all overlooks that God is a God of common sense. He doesn't ask us to do stupid things. He asks us to embed his word in our hearts and then act accordingly. Acting against, or ignoring, common sense is "tempting God." Did Jesus think he could fly? Jump off the temple? Did he do stupid things? No. But he could go above and beyond common sense where he needed to. Relationships and lives have been ruined because some leader intervened in a situation about which he had no knowledge whatsoever, but spouted off whatever "wisdom" or random thought he happened to think at the time. And if such "wisdom" were ignored, and then there was a negative outcome, it was the other person's fault because they didn't listen to the wisdom. Never mind that the situation could have been even worse if it were followed. All a sham. And a shame.