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Yes! My machine gunning rapid fire retemories did nothing to address the real roots of things I was dealing with. We were taught to stay in denial and pretend everything was fine. Still working out my wholeness and salvation here too. So glad God is faithful and never misleads me.

Keying off of Nathan_Jr's post from the Absent Christ? thread. I wanted to hash this one out for a few minutes from my own experiences. Ok, rewind back to 1996 and I was a tough young thug running the streets of NYC. Completely out of control and rife with alcoholism and substance abuse problems, depression, anxiety and the like. And...I was witnessed to, yes proselytized by a band mate in a music group I played lead guitar in at the time. Well, anyway, I latched onto the Bible like it was my lifeline, and it was, and still is for that matter. So as I took the classes and climbed my way through the ranks of classes, various nametags, ministry programs, way corps and the like I really thought I was fine. Let me explain. I quit drinking for a period of time when I got involved with the way international. All my other psycho behaviors pretty much went out the window and I thought I was a "new man"....I applied the law of believing as taught by the way international, I directed my thoughts and energies into many positive directions....and I thought that handled all my previous problems because the way international said it was handled. All my answers were coming through the classes and such...or so I thought. Well, fast forward a good 12 years from 96 and I was hitting the exit from the way international as fast as I could get my behind out of new knoxville. I still thought I was fine...well...I wasnt...I had started drinking socially several years before 2008 and had a bottle firmly in hand in 2008. It was my friend, that bottle was my precious. Now, nit wits in TWI world like to think that all these problems returned to me because I had left the way ministry and violated my salt covenant because I left the way corps. Complete bull$h!t. So after dang near drinking myself to death I turned to Christ. No ministry, no outside direction from anyone. Just me and Jesus Christ. That was the beginning of my delieverance. Ive since come to realize that you can't take mental issues, substance abuse, alcoholism and the like and "confess them all away." No amount of positive thinking will do the trick. It wasnt until I did 16 weeks of counselling that I really began to understand what my problems were and how to unravel them. First off, I recognize that I am an alcoholic and as such have a medical condition where I cannot tolerate alcohol...period. Second off, I came to realize that I refused to accept loss. The law of believing would not allow me to accept loss because that would be a negative confesssion....and I was oh so strong in my believing ya know...except i wasnt..I digress... Thirdly, I had some serious depression and anxiety issues that never really left but were ignored and swept under the rug. Depression is a spirit according to the way international and I would never go for help in the way international because I didnt want to be labelled posessed.... Alright...a lot of words to get to my point: The way international is completely unqualified to help anyone with their hodge podge, cobbled together, unbiblical doctrines. You cant ignore major medical problems such as alcoholism or mental issues such as depression...or even psychotic anger, (which I am still prone to and am still fighting to over come) and call that deliverance. Yey that's exactly what the way international taught me to do. By turning to Christ I have slowly but surely been working out my own salvation with respect and awe! Im still a work in progress, but for the longest time in my life to date I am completely sober and have a really good life. The Lord has restored what the locust ate and then some. For anyone considering the way international as a solution to your problems....RUN! Run straight to God and Christ. Or just run to get the heck out of the way before real damage is done. My problems festered under a fake smile and 3 piece suit with multiple nametags. You cannot ignore your problems and confess them away. That's magickal thinking and it nearly cost me my life. By the way, God's Word has never returned void in my life. God had his hand on my life the entire time and eventually led me to safety and deliverance and complete peace. The way international gets NO credit. But God never left my side and my life is in the Lord's hands...quite literally.

Good job, everyone. When someone thrives on conflict…. it becomes the fuel that feeds his engine. Remove the fuel (banter, conflict) and voila… the engine can no longer function. Soon enough, the provocateur moves on looking to start another conflict.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it sounds like an attempt at isolationism. "Don't associate with those people you've known for years. Their weakness will bring you down."

Yes. I’ve had to address what is at the root of my issues rather than a Pollyanna make believe type of approach with “retemories”. Like, for instance, depression. I can run scriptures through the mind thousands of times a day about joy in the Lord and the rewards for the faithful. However, until I removed myself from the heavy handed authoritarian rule of TWI the scriptures were of limited help in that situation. When you have no control over your future and all of it is dictated by angry Pharisees, there really is no time to be down. Giving up just leads to suicide. So fighting back and reclaiming my life from those who had an undue amount of control in it was first necessary so that my subconscious mind feels that there is a future. Then after the root cause is dealt with I can do other things to deal with personal triggers for sad emotions. I will just say that surrendering your freedom of will for a sense of comfort extends the problem rather than solves it. The Pharisees who will dictate your behavior have zero power or help in ANY situation. No miracles. No healing. No solid practical advice. Just keep on complying and God will reward you. NO. Exactly wrong. Stop complying first. Second remove the false authority to harm you. Third implement recovery measures.

I know from experience what it's like to deal with mental health issues such as depression and anxiety. The recommended treatment for me has been the use of both medication and therapy although an either/or option can work as well for others. It's all very individualized. Medication is for chemical imbalances in the brain and therapy deals with the thoughts and feelings in the mind. I find having knowledge of how our brains work is helpful as well. A lot of progress has been made in the area of neuroplasticity which is the brain's ability to change, reorganize, or grow neural networks. Terms that help to define it are having a "growth mindset" and "rewiring the brain" so habitual behaviors can be changed. This is a website that explains it in more detail. https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-brain-plasticity-2794886 Then there's the spiritual side of healing which is the most powerful of all but only if you have sound doctrine. Unsound doctrine can make matters worse because on top of everything you're already going through, you can't understand why you're not really getting better even though you're doing everything twi tells you to like doing retemories and applying the law of believing (as mentioned above) and I'll add having a "renewed mind." I found that my symptoms "improved" but eventually came to realize that spiritually I was merely standing on sand instead of a rock (you know what happens when the wind and rain beat on each) . So like OldSkool and penguin2, I too am working out my salvation because doing so can improve mental health. My main issue is learning how to stop trusting in my own works to bring about deliverance but to instead trust God to do the healing because of His faithfulness in keeping His promises. My goal is have a greater understanding of the verses below which speak of God, Christ, spirit, the mind, power, strength and trust. Knowing how all these work together would be life changing (Bravo God! ). Ephesians 1:18-19 I pray that the eyes of your heart (mind) may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe (trust). Ephesians 3:16-17 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being (mind), 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Looking forward to learning more from this thread (thanks OldSkool for starting it)!

I wish I could upvote the above post 30 times.

Instead of overcoming worry and fear which the pfal class was promised to do for us, Twi used a lot of fear and humiliation to keep people from leaving or disagreeing with them. From what I've read, many leaders became like stalkers - always keeping their 'i's" on other leaders lower on the totem pole which caused them to keep having to look over their shoulders. When people do leave, many take their waybrain with them so it takes a long to very long time to become free of it. That's the cult's definition of leadership. Christ is the opposite of every cultish thing about twi so turning to him is a whole different experience that can bring wholeness. He is always with us, but in a loving way. He knows instantly when we are having mental health issues because he dwells in our hearts/minds. He has empathy for us because he understands what we're going through since he was tempted in all ways like we are. He works in us so we can overcome whatever our struggles are (unlike twi's way of just telling people to "renew your mind" or "you're not believing"). We are in the right place to overcome worry and fear when we turn to Christ.

Truth! Compassion helps. Compassion which, from Wierwille and Loy Martindale were grossly lacking.

Anyone who reads this thread will see how Mike's many locked-in beliefs have been dealt with so why continue to spend any more time correcting him? As for me and my computer, we're done. (No matter what that piece of wise advice claims we should never do - "never say never.")

Fair enough, sounds like a plan. Peace!

"I have no friends when it comes to the word." (Something like that.) Isolation, insulation, paranoia, devil spurts everywhere, empties, controlled information flow... Isolate to develop codependency. Typical NPD strategy.

I agree. You should be strong enough as a person to able to help others up, and also not to be changed easily by the crowd. But you should also be aware of who you surround yourself with, since you will be influenced by them. The feeling I remember associated with that phrase is one of heaviness and tunnel vision. People were being targeted?

What kind of real strength is defeated by weakness? We that are stron ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. So, scripture doesn't support that statement. I wonder if he was keying from the section of scripture where it talks about "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners" from 1 Corinthians 15:33. When you decipher King James English it's basically saying that evil associations corrupt good character, or ethics. But weakness always brings down strength sounds like some ole BS that craiggers misapplied and used as a club to scare people into compliance.

And ditto. I fought the directors at the way international for 2 years...I understand corporate bullying...oh boy do I ever...thanks for the thoughtful response.

RETEMORIES I equate memorizing retemories to memorizing vocabulary lists in a target language. I learned the names of all the colors in Spanish. Presto! I now speak Spanish. Knowledge is good, but it's useless if you can't apply it in real time, especially as it pertains to human interaction..

Gold idea Rocky. There's another step if one wishes to use it. That's where you share a suggestion that you think might be helpful such as, "It would help if you/we could..." It's just a way of expressing what one needs. The key is to ask respectfully instead of insisting such action must happen which would then hint back to "it's all your fault so you need to fix it".

wish I had one of those when I was a kid...sigh...the absent toy.

glad Im not the only one who manages to quote the wrong person with this site software....lol

Yes. Empathy can backfire. The most loving to do is walk away.

It seems he gets something emotionally from posting at GSC, yet he has not yet articulated what it is that he gets. And I wish those who criticize him, ("crudely" or "scatologically") would engage in some serious introspection. He claims you force him to respond. Well, the way I see it, the incentive is reciprocal. You want to shut him up? Don't feed [the troll] his emotional incentives. Some of you have heard this from me before. So, it's not just Mike who needs to exercise self-awareness and self-discipline. You will NOT EVER change his mind. NOT EVER "win" an argument with him. Get honest with yourselves. Skyrider identified Mike as a provocateur. Are you co-dependent?

BTW, Mike? It's not only dishonest to keep painting the posters as if they think vpw had no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and was continuous, unrelieved evil. That's just not true. We've discussed that in threads. I even did a poll- zero people agreed with that position. We've also discussed him with his positive traits as well- I started a thread once specifically to do just that. Lying about people while calling THEM liars is never the way to get people on your side. I'm sure you're unable to process any of that, but that makes it no less true.

Translation- Mike has worn out his welcome everywhere else. He hasn't been banned from the GSC. So, he posts here. BTW, Mike keeps refusing to take responsibility for his posting. He was never grabbed off the street, gagged and tied up, and driven somewhere. He was not "kidnapped" here. The "long story" is a short story. Someone who Mike had sent a communication to said "can you believe the b.s. some people spread? This is what I got in the mail" and posted some of Mike's manifestos. Mike then showed up and tried to defend his nonsense. That would be a "long story" if Mike was telling it. BTW. Mike? The internet is like anywhere else. You can get disagreements and so on. You choose to come here, knowing we know you're posting nonsense and will call you on it. So, don't pretend to be shocked when it happens. It's a natural by-product of going somewhere and starting controversy. If you don't want static for adoring wierwille, don't go where wierwille survivors post. If you don't want to get called on how error-ridden his work was, and how little was done by him, don't post where people know his history. Between all the static you get called on around here, I wonder if the staff have wondered whether it is even cost-effective to let you go on for pages and pages and pages, and keep getting refuted, since everything adds up.

You forget, we are all aware of you revering wierwille. He was "born with an overabundance of brains and brawn", he was "overgifted", and "where he walked, the earth shook."

Lots of people have gotten a good look behind the curtain and decided to move on with their lives. I would call that success. In addition, many have simply passed away. It's a harsh reality we all face eventually. As to the latter part of your assessment: I, myself, was never in the Corps and my Way history dates back to 1972. edit: All of this, of course, has nothing to do with the discussion topic. I just thought I would set the record straight.

No offense taken; no surprise either. I try to isolate your limited endorsement to this one issue, best I can.

I get it STL I have found the enemy and it is us. I have found God and it is us. A few clues seem to come up. Not by works, the spirit will lead into all truth.