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The Way International Seeks to Ban Bible by Suing Jewish Group I hope they have enough money and chutzpah to put TWI in it's place.

The graph literally took less than 5 minutes to create: Download the data: 1 minute (I already knew where it was)(+ a 30/10 FIOS connection is sometimes useful) Create the chart: 30 seconds (Excel is a beautiful thing) Screenshot and cropping: 30 seconds (Irfranview is a beautiful thing) Upload to Photobucket: 1 minute Insert into the post: 30 seconds (it took longer to write the above than it did to make the chart) As to the JPII and PioXI quotes, I knew exactly where they were, as well. I have studied the subject for several years. The reason why is that I wanted to make sure that my conscience was properly formed regarding this area, as it is so vital to one's Christian walk. I, frankly, would have mentioned those documents earlier on, but I've learned that it is generally more productive to restrict myself to Biblical quotes when arguing with non-Catholics. Just because we live in a country that has non-Christians and does not have a State religion, does not mean that I should stop arguing for Christian virtues to be advocated in the laws and policies of this State. Murder and theft are both considered sinful acts by Christians. Does that mean that we should tolerate them in a "secular" society? Of course not. Should we tolerate the sacrifice of virgins because we are "secular" and have a diversity of religious beliefs? Never. There is something that is called the "natural" law (which you quote a passage referencing). ALL people of good will should be able to recognize those things. Respect for life and respect for private property are two elements of this. There are four cardinal virtues: prudence, temperance, justice, and fortitude. Those are widely taught in moral theology courses (whether they are identified as "cardinal virtues" or are just spoken of). Those cardinal virtues are simply thrown away because one is not a Christian or that we do not live in a "Christian Society": they should be advocated all the stronger for those reasons. (And, btw, they predate Christ -- they come from Plato, of all sources) You mentioned the fact that we had a Muslim in Congress. Well, if I was in Congress and wanted to set up a system of private charity to supersede the current government system, one of the FIRST people I would go to is Keith Ellison. Why? Precisely because he IS a Muslim. Islam has a tremendous system of charity. And, frankly, if I knew of any orthodox Jews in the House, I would likewise try to work with them on the subject, too. Again, based upon their traditions. One other little point: I call the practice gravely evil. I call the practitioners and advocates for the practice mistaken or, perhaps, fooled. The only way, in relation to this practice, that I would call a person evil, would be if the person full well knew the slavery to which its "beneficiaries" are ensnared and the person still advocates it -- particularly if the person advocates it for that reason. You're right and I am not saying that. If you got the impression that I was saying that, I apologize for not making myself clearer. What it does is that it reduces the amount of resources that I have available to give. (If I didn't pay as much tax as I do, then I would have significantly more available to give) In addition, the government doesn't really encourage charitable giving as much as they could. Let me give you an example: - Let us say that a doctor wanted to treat some patients on a charitable basis. The doctor cannot do this as a charitable contribution, for two reasons: first, he cannot consider the value of the time he spends doing the charitable work as a deduction. Second, he cannot consider his time, his staff's salaries, or the materials he expends as a deduction, because you can't deduct a contribution to an individual. (Source: IRS Pub 526) - The same applies to hospitals, labs, pharmacies, and so on. - The above is not to say that doctors, hospitals, pharmacies, labs, and so on, do not treat patients for free? Absolutely not. I know enough to know that they do, but the way they have to handle it is as a write-off from their profit, not as a charitable donation. (And, of course, there are charitable medical organizations set up to do so and to which contributions are deductible) Can you picture what a change it would be if primary care physicians, pharmacies, labs, and so on were allowed to provide a portion of their services available and consider the expenses to be charitable deductions? You are apparently drinking too much of the liberal bathwater here (speaking of rhetoric). A "culture of entitlement" means that somebody owes you something -- and this becomes totally ingrained in our society. This refers to people like the widows of 9/11 bankers who had their nice houses in Westchester County, large life insurance policies, but yet who felt as if they were entitled to large payments from the government in compensation. This refers to military retirees, rated at 100% disability, who have nice GS-13 or GS-14 jobs ($75K - $105K per year) in the government (through preferential hiring) and collect a tax-free VA disability pension. (No problems so far) Who then lobby for collecting a taxable DOD pension on top of their tax-free VA pension. (That's where the problem comes in) (and, btw, I am a military retiree who was encouraged to submit disability paperwork but who didn't do so because it's not right) This refers to people who build expensive houses on hurricane prone beaches or mudslide-prone cliffs, who, after the houses are repeatedly destroyed from hurricanes or brush fire induced mudslides, rebuild in the same spot, knowing that the government will continue to finance the reconstruction through disaster funds. This refers to major wall street banks or major auto companies driving their businesses into the ground and then demanding government assistance to bail them out. A "culture of entitlement" does not simply refer to the needy. It infects all of us. We, as a society, absolutely have an obgligation to care for the needy. You and I agree on this much. And you accuse me of being judgmental? My oh my. Time to pull the plank from your eye, dear. Albert Einstein is often attributed as saying, The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Money is not the issue. Changing the overall paradigm needs to be the issue. Let me use schools as a subset of this. We spend an inordinate amount of money on schools. In DC, the amount spent is around $15,000 per student per year. Parochial schools in DC spend, on average, less than $6,000 per student (this is subsidized through contributions of people like me so that there are lots of scholarships out there). The parochial schools uniformly turn out far more qualified students than public schools. Why? Because their paradigm is different. - Parochial school teachers are there, not for the money, but because they want to teach kids. (They make on average about 2/3 of what they would make in a public school setting) - Parents are more involved, because they have a sense of community membership and obligation (all of them had to make at least some kind of contribution, even if the contribution was doing maintenance work on the school at night) - Parents and students recognize that being in a parochial school is a revokable privilege, not a right -- and so the learning environment is far more productive - One thing, it's not because of some strong Catholic identity (although the Church is deeply involved in schools) -- on average, only about 1/3 of the students within a DC parochial school are Catholic The point being not that all schools should be Catholic parochial schools. But the paradigms illustrated above (teachers having a sense of mission, strong parental involvement, and a lack of feeling of entitlement replaced by a feeling of obgliation) is what's needed...not simply more money flushed down the toilet. You're right, you likely won't convince me of anything. And I won't convince you of anything. But there are always the lurkers who might be convinced one way or the other.

Well, thank you very much for clarifying that point. Now we can move beyond that and deal with the real subject. Yes, I do believe that the government, particularly the national level government, providing social assistance, particularly long-term social assistance, is a grave evil. Sorry that you feel that it is a narrow, Biblical view (I guess that is supposed to be a bad thing). And, with reference to somebody in the peanut gallery, it grieves me that my views make Evangelicals, in general, look bad :blink: . It might be of some comfort to let you know that I am not the only one who holds those views. Let me give you a couple of examples: In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called "Welfare State". This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the "Social Assistance State". Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good. By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending. In fact, it would appear that needs are best understood and satisfied by people who are closest to them and who act as neighbours to those in need. It should be added that certain kinds of demands often call for a response which is not simply material but which is capable of perceiving the deeper human need. One thinks of the condition of refugees, immigrants, the elderly, the sick, and all those in circumstances which call for assistance, such as drug abusers: all these people can be helped effectively only by those who offer them genuine fraternal support, in addition to the necessary care. Karol Wojtyla, Hundred Years (1991), paragraph 48 And then another one: As history abundantly proves, it is true that on account of changed conditions many things which were done by small associations in former times cannot be done now save by large associations. Still, that most weighty principle, which cannot be set aside or changed, remains fixed and unshaken in social philosophy: Just as it is gravely wrong to take from individuals what they can accomplish by their own initiative and industry and give it to the community, so also it is an injustice and at the same time a grave evil and disturbance of right order to assign to a greater and higher association what lesser and subordinate organizations can do. Achille Ratti, Forty Years (1931), paragraph 79 The two passages above illustrate that my views might not be quite so narrow and "Biblical" as you might consider on first blush. Or at least that there are other narrow-minded people out there who believe as I do. We have had a fairly significant amount of "social assistance" payments go out since LBJ declared "war" on poverty. You can see that we are spending somewhere in the neighborhood of three quarters of a trillion dollars a year on it. But yet it is utterly ineffective. The above chart, based on <a href="http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov4.xls">census numbers, show that since 1966 the relative level of poverty is the same in 2007 as they were in 1966. The blue line represents the poverty rate reported by the Census Bureau. The black line is a "trend line." After spending trillions of dollars on poverty, you'd think that the number would shrink. Think about this a second: In 2007, $724 billion was spent on "human resource" programs (I exclude both Medicare and Social Security, as well as veterans health). There were 7,623,000 families identified as living below the poverty line. You could give each one of those families $94,987 for the amount of money spent on those programs. And this is not just this one time: it has been along that order every year for at least the past 10 years. Don't believe me? Look it up yourself. I gave you the links to the documents. Bottom line: In addition to being morally wrong, this federal government sponsored "social assistance" paradigm simply doesn't work. Just to let you know, since I'm the one arguing against it (and used the term "grave evil"), I'm not an Evangelical. As to Jesus feeding the 5,000, I never realized Jesus was a representative of the civil government.

...that I have heard about, for at least many, many years. <blink>Caution: the following crime is not suitable for reading by young children nor by those with weak stomachs. </blink> If you fit either description, I suggest you hit the "back" button before continuing (and, yes, I have left the more graphic portions to the news articles and didn't put them here) A 35 year old woman and her 16 year old son were attacked by a gang of 10 teenagers. She was repeatedly raped and sodomized by the gang. She was then forced to perform sexual acts on her own son. She was then doused in nail polish remover and the criminals were asking if any of them had a lighter. Accounts of the crimes are here and here. A 16 year old defendant pleaded guilty and testified against others. A 20 year old was just convicted of the crime and a jury is deliberating in the case of an 18 year old defendant, while the trial of a 17 year old has yet to occur. See here for reports of the conviction. I don't know about any of the other defendants. Apparently, the 20 year old received two life sentences. Does the punishment fit the crime? What do you think would be going through these kids' heads to get a group of 10 of them to do something like that?

I'm posting this link because I've been asked about this group. It is a spinoff group of twi. Capital Area Biblical Studies Fellowship

Every time I call customer service for my cable, my antivirus software, my computer--anything--the scenario is similar to the following. Today I wanted to find out how to set up the voice mail box on my new Internet phone. Installation took two attempts by the subhuman subcontractors sent on this mission by my cable company. That's another whole story that I won't bore you with. This first conversation below is a transcript of my online chat encounter with my Internet provider’s customer service department that was e-mailed to me. I used the online chat option because when I called the company's customer service department, its interactive voice mail system wasn't working ("but our engineers are aware of this problem and are working on it"). Here's the transcript: Konee: Hello! Thank you for choosing [our] Internet technical Chat. My name is Konee M. How may I assist you? Linda: Hi. I had your company install my Internet phone service this week, and the installer was out of instruction booklets. I need to find out how to set up my voice mail. Konee: You are connected to Internet technical Chat. Linda: I know that. Konee: I will definitely guide you in the right direction to get this issue resolved. Feel free to ask questions along the way. Konee: Before we begin, please provide the following three pieces of information to verify your account and to document this interaction for future reference: 1. The account holder's 10 digit telephone number. (xxx-xxx-xxxx). 2. The account holder's Full Name (First and Last) 3. Please tell us your name. Linda: xxx-xxx-xxxx Linda Zxxxxxx Linda Zxxxxx Konee: Thank you. I understand that you need to setup your voice mail. Linda: Yes Konee: You are connected to [our] Internet technical Chat. Linda: I know. Konee: Unfortunately, we do not have any information regarding phone service. (long pause) Konee: Linda, I wish I could assist you further. However I don't have the specific tools to resolve your issue. I can help you by providing the contact information for the appropriate department, who will assist you with your voice mail request. Linda: (thinking, “Oh, you mean the number where I’ll be placed on hold for an hour because their interactive menu thingy is kaplooey? THAT phone number?”) Okay, thank you. Konee: Please contact them at xxx-xxx-xxxx (the number I had called in the first place). Konee: They work 24 X 7. Konee: I have documented all the necessary notes that would help you in your next contact. Konee: I apologize as our session cannot conclude the resolution due to limited tools and information however please be assured that they will definitely assist you with your issue. Linda: Okay, thank you. Bye. So I call the phone number and (what a surprise!), I’m put on hold for 45 minutes. The person who finally answers is very nice, but gives me completely inaccurate instructions (“call your own number and use the last 4 digits of your SS# as the PIN). I do as instructed. I get a recording. “Your login was unsuccessful. Please try again.” I try again. Several times. Nada. I call customer service again and get voice mail message hell, but at least it's working now. I'm told: “Press 1 for support with cable TV. Press 2 for support with Internet access." I’m waiting for option 3, help with my Internet phone. That would be too easy. So I press “0.” I finally get another person, very pleasant, but for whom English is obviously a second language. George: How can I help you? Linda: I need instructions for setting up my Internet phone voice mail. I called earlier, but the instructions I was given didn’t work. George: I can help you with that. What is your phone number? Address? Name? Linda: xxx-xxx-xxxx, etc. George: You’re having trouble setting up your voice mail? Linda: Yes. Goerge: This is Internet support. Linda: Phone support wasn’t on your menu. George: I’m sorry. I will transfer you to the department that provides phone service support. Linda: (through clenched teeth) Okay, thank you. George: Have a wonderful day! Linda: (to myself) Yeah, yeah, wonderful day. Finally, I get someone who (a) speaks English and (b) gives me the correct info. “Dial this access number and follow the prompts.” Simple. It only took 2 hours of my Saturday to get it!! Isn’t outsourced customer service a beautiful thing??

What good is knowing the "truth" if you don't do anything with it? It's really not an end in itself, or at least shouldn't be when it comes to being a follower of Jesus.

Yeah, anger certainly does have it's place. Like the guy who gets conned so badly that it costs him everything is likely to be the most wary to get conned again. One of the things about calling myself a schmuck was to deliberately point out that in my view I am better than nobody in this respect. We are all potential subjects of a con. And even if we can tend to assume reading the scriptural records that we would not be decieved, well in my case all the years I assumed I was serving God when in fact I was serving the self interest of not just one self-serving narcissistic turd like Wierwille and his TWI but then I was taken in by another self-serving nacrcissistic turd and his River Road Fellowship. And now in more than one case these creepy prophecies and imagery have served to put people down like EL, well, anger may be an issue for me too, but I don't feel that my anger is missplaced. Why shouldn't we get angry at a$$ kissing false prophets who ingratiate themselves with false leadership to facilitate their control over people's lives? I remember Greg Ferret back in the days when he was running with JAL say how they trained the prophets.(so called, that is.) And I see nothing sound in any of this now. I do feel for EL who because of her hubby's lack of spiritual perception had to endure such battering. At least as I was conned I did not put on airs as any great leader or give myself a nickname that also implied "the king". BOY, IF THAT WERE THE CASE I'D CONSIDER MYSELF TO HAVING EARNED A "DOUBLE SCHMUCK" AWARD.

Great question! If anyone can show one of supposed revalations of Wierwille's to actually convincingly prove God's predestination and the show the inevitability of God's councel I'd be surprised. Right now for me it seems that the ones that I recall Wierwille sharing only seem cleverly designed to keeping us smoking the Waybong.

If you live a righteous life, you don’t need revelation about the internet or anything else in the future because the future would judge you righteously. However, a narcissist cannot receive revelation; his narcissistic ways get in the way or should I say “The Way”.

I think that in reality it is pretty stupid for everyone who reads a bible record to assume that they would recognize the truth and avoid the false prophets. I think human capacity for self-delusion is fairly evident if we can be honest, but when it is tied into a ministry that is supposedly teaching and speaking for God delusion seems nearly innevitable to me now. I think that whenever I read scriptures in years past it was common for me to assume that I would automatically get it. but that happened when I still thought that TWI stood for God. What a schmuck I was.

I've been looking through this now. Thank you, thank you very much Shellon for telling me where I could find some specific info. I'm kind of amazed at how this stuff went down. but in my owm little splinter group the prophets were on a very short leash and had to kiss V.B.'s a$$ in a very big way to be heard. It seems in this case these prophets tied themselves in with the ones who ran the show just as much as V.B.'s little toads were forced to do with him. It's easy to say now looking back, but it is a lot more difficult or perhaps even impossible to put a stop to this sort of thing when the false prophets tie themselves in with the top leadership.

Do you feel the same way about the works of Shakespeare, Homer, Plato, Socrates? How about the art of Michaelangelo? You know, Beethoven, Mozart and Bach have been played a lot over the centuries. I wonder why musicians continue to play their music? I mean, after all, don't we all know what it's supposed to sound like what with recordings and all. One book about Abraham Lincoln should suffice don't you think? And for crying out loud, how many more movies do we need about WWII? Hey people, America won..o.k.? Oh Gawd, it's all so lame...Let's get on to more important things like video games, drive-thru cheeseburgers and what college football team will finish number 1.

Does it ever occur to anyone (other than me, I guess), that maybe, just maybe, there's a finite amount of wisdom that can be gleaned from The Bible? What, 66 books, a lot of which are nothing more than letters - and not even particularly long letters, and the Jewish and Christian communities have dedicated CENTURIES, nay MILLENNIA, and untold resources, Universities, Institutes, countless committees and groups, and even more individuals, to examining every jot and tittle (quite literally) of this one manuscript? You'd think that maybe we'd have gotten a handle on it by now, wouldn't you? But NOOOOOO! We have to have a whole bunch more pencil-necked geeks to instruct us in what The Bible REALLY says! And, evidently, we need more every few days! Oh Gawd, it's all so lame...

Two more spin-off groups involving Way Corps graduates, each of whom were on the Way's Research Team in the 1980s: Light of the Word Ministry and Christian Leadership Training

I was wondering about that myself-----Kazmir had been a Sox-killer for a long time and even though he has declined some and is injury prone he still is seemingly a good pitcher for the stretch...Why the Rays dumped him and no one with a lesser record than the Angels (Rangers, Red Sox etc) picked hm up on the waiver deal before the LAAA's makes me think that there is some issue with him that no one is mentioning. I wouldnt stop keeping an eye on Tampa Bay (or anyone at all) just yet--we still have a mont and anything can still happen

Are they adding? Probably not. What they mostly might be doing, is building up a small stockpile from ex-wayfers who can't find any other meaningful (?) place to tithe and "abundantly share". *We* all know that we *owe* provision of physical comforts and such to *those who labor(?) in the word and doctrine, do we not? Now the kids involved.. they will be left with 501c organizations which they can only leach out a little sustenance at a time.. the smart ones (hopefully) got an education, a profession, a life..

That couldn't happen too soon for me! There's been so many lies, and so much hurt. I know that if the plug was pulled on that organization and all of it's facsimiles all the hurt and lies won't leave the planet.....but at least they won't be the source of any more.

In a rented aircraft carrier, right?

So with all these splinter groups rising up, are there really any new people being added to the "flock" so to speak? It seems to me that all of this splintering is just a re-shuffling of ex-twi grads. These people are getting older by the day which means eventually TWI and all its splinters are soon to die off, probably in the next 20 years.

which?

They're lookin good but I'll be content with the wildcard--In October all teams are 0-0 when the second season begins----Things are looking good here-the pitching is shaping up--even Paul Byrd who a month ago was working the driveup window at Dairy Queen ( or something like that...) had a great performance beating Roy Halladay today---Heading into September things are looking good... Congratulations to the kids from Chula Vista California---LLWS Champions 2009 another great game for them--their double play with the bases loaded and a tie game in the fifth was just plain stellar baseball...Bravo!

Great Post Shellon, I know I threw out bibles and crosses and basically shunned my family It was a long time coming until I could say I am sooooo very sorry.(lots of healing to be done first to even recognize the ignorance of my mind!)

I can agree to half of that.

It's not so bad in Yankeeland either.

I'll be tuned in.. I gotta wonder how Texas Tom is faring these days...The 'insurmountable' Angels lead has been dwindling a bit over the last week and the Angels appear to have the much tougher September schedule--Plus there'll be 6 head to head games Tex vs LAAAAAAA coming up...If Hamilton does what he is capable of and their young pitching holds up the stRangers have a very legitimate shot at the division--- I'm warming up for the stretch run which is always fun--things are feeling like they are finally starting to jell around here a little--even Remy is back-which makes it all feel like home again

TWI is accusing someone of plagiarism???? What a hoot!!

I'll be watching the LL game today, though it seems like there's always some kid who looks about 16, 6 ft tall and needs a shave, throwing wild heat against some little kid who's helmet is twice the size of his head. Still, Williamsport rocks.

"Culture of entitlement" is often code for ". . . the poor are unworthy, lazy users and deserve their grinding poverty. . . " and it doesn't usually come from those living hand to mouth.

Yes, why did God send his "only begotten son" to save you from your sins, when he already gave you a law. If you would have only worked hard enough, you could have saved yourselves. Now he has created this system where you are reliant on Him instead of you being self reliant! Where does this welfare state come from? How dare the government take His place. Collecting your taxes due and being a "big brother" is His job not theirs!

why don't they read the next verse.. heh

I remember vics description of the party these words were uttered, the writing on the wall.. a big drinking party with lots of schnapps, drambuie and wild turkey.. pretty appropriate.. the rest of us have to settle for cheap Cabernet..

Oh.. you mean like the Kennedy brothers and Marylin Monroe... Always nice to be above the law and treat women like cheap sexual property - so thoughtful of them

who said that?

We wonder why evangelicals get such a bad name? Could it be because they call things like food stamps for a mother with kids grave evil. It doesn't make God look so nice either. I wonder if Jesus made sure everyone had a job when he fed the 5000.

Yeah.. the privileges seemed extended to family members, friends.. but I understand that the sub-ordinates sometimes got "hand me downs". it is documented here somewhere that they had a pecking order as far as passing women along.. vic, then uncle howie, then.. whoever.. I hope they didn't do that among family members. It would be kinda sick.. but I have at least one suspicion..

You may have a point, but Gov't programs are consistent over the long term. . . . and that still doesn't make them "grave" evil.

I don't really think God's providence works that way. . . I believe He works within the framework of our freewill. Kinda awesome. He is able. . . American's actually give billions to charity each year. We are some of the most generous people on the planet. Didn't many social programs start as a result of FDR's New Deal and Johnson's The Great Society?

I think charitable giving/action and philanthropy are 100 times more efficient, dollar for dollar, than gov't ever could be. Gov't could help by adjusting laws that cause prices to be so high.

Aren't gov'ts and authority usually established by war?

Mark, After reading your latest post, the one with all the pictures, I couldn't help but think "Wow! Talk about your loaded statements!" But this little jewel you said kinda stood out to me: I'm sorry, but since when did _any_ of the 'gravely evil' (?) government social programs 'usurp', ie., take away, prohibit your ability, right, and obligation to help the poor, speak out on their behalf, and do all those other charitable activities? Like it's an either/or situation? Government participation doesn't 'usurp' your participation in the least! ... At all.

No I mean the part about everything having been predestinated by God so there is nothing we can do. Why vote if that's the case? And by the way, one man who firmly believed and practiced theocracy was John Calvin himself. Though the Council of Elders had the vote, they were so influenced by Calvin (and probably afraid of him) that they pretty much voted his way. WG

I am beginning to think, Geisha, that you should be posting on the Calvinism thread instead of this one. WG

Wow Garth. . . coming from you that means something to me. . . . Mark, We live in a secular society not a theocracy. If you are being prevented from speaking the gospel. . . obey God rather than men as the Apostles did in Acts 5. Here in this country you are afforded the right to choose your own religion or faith. You can preach the gospel without fear of incarceration. These protections are written into our Constitution. . . a big deal. You live in a society that embraces the ideal of bearing one another's burdens. A secular society which seeks to care for it's poor. Kiss the ground you walk on Mark. The authority or rule you live under is put in place by God. He determines the bounds of our habitation. . . . everyone. You get 60-70 years here. It is not your eternal dwelling place. . . . we obey so God is not spoken ill of. . . we don't give people an opening. In TWI we had a real knack for twisting things so that evil became good and good was evil. We had a narrow scriptural view and were convinced we knew what was right. . . when in truth, and I think you might agree we embraced bad things. Compassion for the poor is a good and Godly thing. . . . how often did Jesus remind us of the poor? Yet, when we as a society use a portion of tax money . . . .collected by law . . . . to help the less fortunate, to reach out a helping and. . . . it becomes an ungodly thing? No it doesn't. Well, you could tell me that it doesn't really help. . . some hyperbole about human dignity. What good is dignity when one can't feed their family? Reach down and grab your bootstraps. . . pull as hard as you can. . . you will never lift yourself that way. But, if you are down and someone reaches down with a hand. . . . you may get up. . . . . if you are really heavily burdened it may take two. . . . sometimes we have to carry people until they can stand. . . . some may never stand. . . do we as a society step over them? There are places where the poor sleep in the streets. It is not just the Christian who has compassion. . . we are all made in His image. . . . those who confess no faith can be fine moral and kind people. . . . who KNOW the difference between right and wrong. . . To add: We were posting at the same time. . . . protesting is not illegal is it?

So...do you think these guys get together and get all teary-eyed as they reminisce about their "father in the Word"?

Skyrider Christ Afterlife Ministries (SCAM) Passing thru the heavens after his resurrection, Christ ascended on high. He is now seated at the right hand of God....for you. Will you be skyriding the heavens? Sign the blue card now! Heaven awaits. :)