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"I wlll teach you the Word as it has not been known since the First Century." Umm.. the Word was not known in the First Century. Most of it was not written in the first century. And no one had a collection of all the documents. "Exactly!" The Bible teaches that God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Wierwille tells us God reached him at a point he no longer believed the words Holy or Bible on the cover of the book. The ministry of VPW was NOT the ministry of a believer. It was the ministry of a con man who wanted "abundance" and no longer believed the Bible was holy. No wonder he scratched out verses and replaced them with "literal translations according to usage." In the end, he had no more respect for the Bible then than I have now. He was a counterfeit.

Have you checked them for grammar errors?

Funny thing is dispensations didn't exist as a formal doctrine until John Nelson Darby in the 1800. BTW - the link I am posting is simply a random link. There's a lot of sources out there that documant the history I am referring to. I have no affiliation with then, and nor do I NECESARRILY agree with them...lol Dispensationalism doctrine, or administrations, as we know it didn't exist in the first century. So the 1942 promise falls flat on that note too. Think thats a pretty big flop though...God would teach VPW the word like it hadn't been known since the first century and one of the doctrines God taught Wierwille didn't exist before the 1800s.,,,not the only doctrinal point either...law of believing fits here as well. https://christianobserver.net/the-history-of-dispensationalism/

Let's distill this right back. WW states this: They knew the Torah. And the other books that comprise what we know as the OT. The leader of the early sect that became known as Christianity - one Jesus Christ - distilled the law and the prophets down very simply in Matt 22 to: 37Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’e 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’f 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” THAT is "knowing the Word as it hadn't been known since the first century." Anything else is puff, really. "How to" but not the thing itself. FIRST: Love God NEXT: Love (not just be nice to) your neighbour I strongly suspect people knew how to do that in the first century. And in the second, third, and subsequent centuries. And hey, even in the 20th and 21st centuries. How does this fit with administrations, dispensations, whether God spoke (or not) to VPW? It doesn't. It overrules them as unnecessarily. Those things are nitpicking, frills, wish-lists for naysayers to argue about. Hey! God has spoken audibly to me on two occasions (and less audibly on other occasions via various diverse means). The audible words were personal for me and I don't plan on building a ministry out of it. No doubt others here can say much the same. It would be a sad and empty thing if God never spoke with those who love him.

There's always a minority opinion. Of course you can accept that he agreed with you on anything- now he's going to be cited as an "expert" that "agreed" with you on what that meant. Actually, the literal was correctly explained before- that the Scriptures (which are God-breathed) were contrasted with the work of several men including vpw. One thing I didn't mention now- but have before- is vpw's tendency to vaguely imply things without saying them outright. That way, he could technically say he didn't say something, but had people believe he did because he IMPLIED it, he deceived by implication. He did this when he got people to believe he played for the Sheboygan Redskins basketball team. One document claimed he did- but their source for that was the sentence where he IMPLIED it, and the writer mistook the meaning, not realizing it was deception. He said he was CONNECTED WITH THEM. He never even said he handled the ball or practiced with them- but he got people to believe he HAD said that. So, similar weasel-wording could leave well-intentioned people to believe that he'd actually said some of what he wrote or taught would be God-breathed- when he left it unstated but with enough IMPLICATION that people would THINK he said that and go along with it. The grammar of the passage says otherwise, but if one fixates on the implication, that is easily ignored. Then we start to get several rounds of "of course he implied it, he hid it as secret information so that we could find it decades later and God wants us to think this" and so on. For someone determined to go down with the ship- and insist it's not only not sinking, but is handling exceptionally well on the ocean, this sort of thing is EXPECTED.

I usually associate The Law of Believing, like the Law of Attraction, with Ego Inflation. There was certainly a process to it. This link, https://www.drgeorgesimon.com/the-root-of-narcissistic-ego-inflation/ The writer associates ego inflation with death, which is interesting. He uses some religious terminology. VPW's condition was likely like a death. Some refer to it as zombies or the walking dead. He was just not capable of some things. People applying VPW's Law of Believing also experience a death, or dying.

It's like splitting (black and white thinking) . . . The reasoning behind each is Word Salad.

So, if you want to receive something, you need to get a clear picture of it, stay focused, confess positives, renew your mind, speak in tongues, etc. But, if you fear something, there's no escaping it. It will find you. Live in fear of whatever it is you want to receive. BOOM! Works for saint and sinner alike,

https://www.heraldopenaccess.us/openaccess/dissociation-and-confabulation-in-narcissistic-disorders Narcissists and psychopaths dissociate (erase memories) a lot (are amnesiac) because their contact with the world and with others is via a fictitious construct: The False Self. Narcissists never experience reality directly but through a distorting lens darkly. They get rid of any information that challenges their grandiose self-perception and the narrative they had constructed to explicate, excuse and legitimize their antisocial, self-centred and exploitative behaviors, choices and idiosyncrasies. In an attempt to compensate for the yawning gaps in memory, narcissists and psychopaths confabulate: They invent plausible "plug ins" and scenarios of how things might, could, or should have plausibly occurred. To outsiders, these fictional stopgaps appear as lies. But the narcissist fervently believes in their reality: He may not actually remember what had happened-but surely it could not have happened any other way! These tenuous concocted fillers are subject to frequent revision as the narcissist's inner world and external circumstances evolve. This is why narcissists and psychopaths often contradict themselves. Tomorrow's confabulation often negates yesterday's. The narcissist and psychopath do not remember their previous tales because they are not invested with the emotions and cognitions that are integral parts of real memories.

C) The alleged promise was based on ignorance. twi's system shares a trait with the Mikean system- they're both Gnostic systems based on secret knowledge. The twi system-which was vpw's system, set up by him and used by him all the time- was that study of the verses was the key to God (plus the "Law of Believing"),. So, the more you study the verses, the more "godly" you can become, especially if you study it the twi way. We've all seen far too many horror stories of twi "masters" who partly memorized vpw/twi materials and were bigger schmucks if anything. Geer spent hours going over vpw's teachings in between drugging women for vpw to rape and preparing to throw himself over vpw as a human shield if anyone tried to shoot him. But, let's expose the IGNORANCE in the alleged "promise." How DID the 1st century Christian church know God's Word? They knew the Torah/Old Testament. They knew the SPOKEN word, They knew The Word BY EXPERIENCE AND POWER. Think about it. They were getting converts left and right while being a disciple was ILLEGAL and punished by imprisonment, murder, or both. They got LOTS of converts with that going on. No amount of charismatic demagoguery can make up for the risk of being killed or imprisoned. You might get a few disaffected outsiders. Saul of Tarsus joined them - a former persecutor and murderer of Christians (he didn't put his hand on the knife, but he ordered it done.) Did the Greeks hear good speeches then run out and conclude that their gods walked among them and prepared to offer blood sacrifices? They SAW something. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. However, provide the extraordinary proof, and the claims stop looking extraordinary-at least in comparison to the proof. The 1st century Christians preached-but were known because they had power and could deliver where they spoke. Lots of people preached and didn't get significant converts. Theirs was a pragmatic, direct, power-based ministry. twi was never that. They were study-based, and TALKED ABOUT power lots of times, then considered "Kojacking" a significant witness of "power." 1st century Christians were never centrally-controlled nor organized. twi bore no resemblance to 1st century Christianity except where twi CLAIMED they did. But all the claims don't mean reality matches a claim. The 1st century Christians probably didn't have access to the entire New Testament ANYWHERE. All documents had to be hand-copied. With no printing press and no scanners and PDFs, that was a laborious process and few copies circulated for the 1st century AD (certainly relative to now.) So, twi has NEVER had "The Word as it was known in the 1st Century." because vpw NEVER had "The Word as it was known in the 1st Century." vpw might have known that when he phrased the promise he was supposedly given, but he skipped over "Church history". So, he was likely to make such a mistake where God Almighty would not. vpw made up the alleged 1942 promise. and it's easy to show all the errors. There was no such promise. There's no real, sensible reason to laud vpw or "his" books. They don't comrpise "revelation."

B) The alleged promise was a lie. Supposedly, God Almighty promised He would teach like it hadn't been known since the 1st century AD. If this were true, there would be a complete disconnect with what was being taught and known elsewhere in 1942 EVERYWHERE and what vpw later taught (because we know he taught others.) However, even those who idolize vpw agree that the material he taught was already taught by others. A paper trail can be traced for virtually all the twi material vpw taught. vpw took Leonard's class, and a few months later, taught 100% of the same material. vpw bought Stiles' book, then typed up a book with the contents- later adding the contents of books by Bullinger to flesh it out more. And so on. So, either God Almighty lied when giving this promise, someone else claiming to be God lied and vpw couldn't tell the difference between a lying spirit and God Almighty, or vpw lied and nobody promised him at all.

All right, how many ways can we show this 1942 promise failed? We've done it lots of times before. A) The miraculous snowstorm never happened. There was NO report of actual snow anywhere near where this allegedly happened. When it supposedly happened, he didn't even tell his own wife it happened. Come on, that would have been the first words out of any spouse's mouth that evening. ("Honey, you'll never believe what happened to me today...") He never claimed it until decades later. He couldn't keep the details of the miraculous event straight, even. When he first began making this claim, he said the sky looked BLACK with all the heavy snow. This, BTW, isn't what it looks like for even the heaviest snow. Later-probably because he learned that doesn't happen- he switched to saying the sky was WHITE with snow. I'm sure details can get lost over time, but if a miraculous event that turns the sky all one color, you'd at least remember the color. Finally, this wasn't the only time vpw claimed a miraculous snowstorm. In fact, he did it whenever it was convenient. When he added special significance to the minister's conference where he met Stiles, vpw claimed that the entire city was snowed in completely. He was unable to get out because planes, trains and buses were all stopped due to heavy snow conditions, a blizzard. This was a rather big lie, and one that was checkable. When someone spoke to him about it, he didn't say "I was there and saw the snow and walked in it, check again", he immediately switched his story to prevent trying to contradict the weather report. He immediately began claiming the snow was an angelic apparition- angels made him see snow that wasn't there, and when he phoned transit places, angels answered the phone and lied to him. (He would rather have us think angels lied than that he lied.) In reality, not even a single FLAKE fell from the sky in that city that day, and the temperature didn't reach freezing. This wasn't the last time vpw made up a convenient snowstorm, even. A poster here once noted that vpw was supposed to visit their area. Instead, he phoned and said that he WANTED to fly there, but he was located at a bad snowstorm and he was told it was unsafe. The poster checked the weather in vpw's area at the time, and there was neither snow nor storms predicted. So, the entire snow part was a lie. Without that, there's no 1942 promise. However, even if it was possible for there to have been a snowstorm (it's not possible), the other problems with his story would be enough to discredit it. There WAS no 1942 promise. vpw was NEVER some great one. pfal was NEVER some great class nor great study materials. It was all built up as a con-and not the most secure con, either. It needed lots of outside help to prop it up.

ah, the HOW of the Word. So HOW do we choose what tools to interpret the Word that interprets itself except for when it is not?

I'm assuming this is sentence where the dance begins.

I think one of the big attractions of PFAL is the promise of divine knowledge…special revelations…secret knowledge…Gnosticism incognito. And I believe one of the big retention tactics of TWI is to engender an us-versus-them mentality…which can often lead to a persecution complex… Joseph Smith claimed the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on Earth in History of the Church by Joseph Smith . The doctrines of Mormonism began with the farm boy, Joseph Smith in the 1820s in Western New York during a period of religious excitement which is known as the Second Great Awakening. After praying about which denomination he should join, Smith said he received a vision in the spring of 1820. Called the "First Vision", Smith said that God the Father and his son Jesus Christ appeared to him and instructed him to join none of the existing churches because they were all wrong. During the 1820s Smith chronicled several angelic visitations, and was eventually told that God would use him to re-establish the true Christian church. Joseph Smith said the Book of Mormon was translated from writing on golden plates in a reformed Egyptian language, translated with the assistance of the Urim and Thummim and seer stones. He said an angel first showed him the location of the plates in 1823, buried in a nearby hill. With the assistance of Martin Harris, an early follower, Smith began dictating the text of the Book of Mormon on April 12, 1828. Although translation was interrupted by persecution, Smith's continued employment in order to support his family, and Harris's loss of 116 pages, the Book of Mormon manuscript was finished in June 1829. Smith said the plates were returned to the angel after he finished the translation. During the time Smith said he possessed the plates, 15 people were allowed to witness their existence. From: Wiki - Mormonism Mormons have Joseph Smith’s vision and golden plates…TWI has wierwille’s snow job and plagiarized material with a side order of spiritualism, Gnosticism, and Fundamentalism. An “us vs. them” mentality is an essential ingredient in the recipe that makes up cults. A persecution complex is optional but common. Both create stronger group cohesion and a group sense of identity. Both support the cult leadership in controlling the narrative and beliefs of members. Both aid the cult leadership in separating their members from the world at large, which in turn, is important in perpetrating cult mind control. Additionally, promoting the specific behaviors that stimulate opposition in outsiders (which results in a opposition and a persecution complex) also aids the cult leadership in creating separation, and thus empowering the leadership to control minds. An alienated group is an isolated group. Isolation supports information control, and reduces outside social influence. Yes, cults bring upon themselves the opposition of outsiders by having stimulated that opposition. They do it to serve a dark agenda (aware or not, control is a dark agenda), and the reap the consequences. Cult organizations that violate the standards of the surrounding culture are causing the conflict by having violated cultural standards. All cults operate the same way. They differ from one another only in nuance and style. Cult mind control is one thing. Quora – cults have us-versus-them mentality and a persecution complex

Great catch. If WE can do so properly, I suppose we wouldn't need Wierwille's or his lackeys to do it for us. Hence, they were able to keep the REAL underlying purpose of the cult, human need for belonging, obscured so they didn't have to disclose it up front.

Word salad is a great way to deal with rejection.

"Scripture Interprets Itself" - I don't know what this means. If I need something interpreted, it's because it's written in a language I don't understand. Or written in code. Soooo . . . . this whole phrase "scripture interprets itself" is meant to suggest to the mind that's there decoding to take place? A secret message? And point #1 - "In the verse" . . . . pretty sure this book wasn't written down in verses . . . are we playing "I don't understand why you don't understand" here? You just told me I'm doing it wrong. #2 "in the context" - context of what? #3 "used before" . . . .where? Out of context?

So, let's sum it up. You know, math. If you don't believe that pfal and the collaterals and vpw and, of course mike are not breathing out god's word then you are going to endure the wrath of god. Too funny

Learning is pretty much Axiomatic. Sounds complicated, but not really- one assumes that a few set of rules or tenets are true, or commonly agreed upon. And include agreeable assumptions. Then you build your whole existence or Theology based on these few "irrefutable" truths.. Euclid's successors figured that they could explain it all without being able to draw a straight line.. they abandoned the parallel postulate. Some fantastic results followed. But it did not explain everything. Then come Godel. The tenets of any closed mathematical system cannot be proved by the axioms of the system. Some among us are trying to do the impossible here.. Some think that the Axioms are sacrosanct. But Axioms are pretty much self-assured truths. They only have relevance if one assigns it to them. Same works for Religion.

YES!

The first problem we have here is "According to the Univ of Life teachings by VPW on 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians." Did you actually go back and check this statement for accuracy in any way? How does VPW know that Paul, Silas, and Timothy formed an Epistle comittee to discuss revelation that Jesus Christ gave to Paul? Is there a chapter and verse? Can we see that historically? Serious questions. Follow the logic: All scripture is God breathed, it's given to holy men of God who were moved by holy spirit. Why would Paul need to talk it over with Silas and Timothy? The Church epistles are new light. None of the information existed before it was given by Jesus Christ to various epistle authors - it was a mystery hidden in God! What would Timothy and Silas do...proovide accuracy checks somehow? She most definately did not take part of any process even remotely similar to anything we imagine Silas and Timothy did with Paul. For one we don't really know what they did besides what can be inferred from a few scriptures, the rest is conjecture. Way publications is a department where editors aren't even allowed to talk to one another during work hours. You think they are in there having lively discussions on biblical accuracy? Ha! They are treated like kids in there, heck, they had to sign in and out to go use the bathroom. It's one of the most mundane, heavily micromanaged departments around headquarters. Do you think they sit there and do developmental edits for content accuracy using the Bible or something? If anything comes up they query their supervisors in writing and they compare the points in question with other way ministry publications for accuracy. When ministry publications do not agree amongst themselves (which was often) then the issue is passed over to the research department. The research department was ONE part time person when I was there! Everything the so called research department does is subjec to approval by the directors. Do you see the glaring problem? They don't take it to scripture in any meaningful way. They ues their own proven ministry research to double check their own publications to make them all agree. The biggest cover up pulled off by the way international is editing VPS's works for the past 40 years to make them look legitimate when in fact they were a cobbed together, plagairaised mess.

Yeah, but what about that lady with the red drapes? I mean, they weren't just red, they were FIRE ENGINE red.