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"What do you want to do tonight, Brain?" "Same thing we do every night., Pinky, try to sell the class."

Anyway, Christ is not absent at all. If it's Christ in you, from where will Christ "come" from? When did he come as a thief in the night? I see Christ in many that post their thoughts here.

Living Colour, "Cult of Personality." "Look in my eyes, what do you see? The cult of personality. I know your anger, I know your dreams. I've been everything you wanna be. I'm the cult of personality. Like Mussolini and Kennedy, I'm the cult of personality, The cult of personality, The cult of personality. Neon lights, Nobel Prize When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies. You won't have to follow me, Only you can set me free. I sell the things you need to be. I'm the smiling face on your TV. I'm the cult of personality. I exploit you, still you love me. I tell you one and one makes three. I'm the cult of personality. Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi, I'm the cult of personality, The cult of personality, The cult of personality. Neon lights, Nobel Prize When a leader speaks, that leader dies. You won't have to follow me, Only you can set you free. You gave me fortune. You gave me fame. You gave me power in your God's name. I'm every person you need to be. I'm the cult of personality."

It is uncanny to me the parallels between Mormons and TWI. It’s like the Mormons are the “big brother cult” to TWI. What I mean by that is not that there is any contact or shared doctrine. But the interplay of human nature all working with the leadership organization setup all show the same patterns TWI is going through and coming up with on a larger scale with 17m followers not 5000 ish. Whitewash the cultishness - check. Now they hate the term Mormon and prefer the full LDS title. Looks more Christian. Family values and celestial kingdoms and rules. Looks wholesome to the outside. Hides the politics on the inside. President Nelson is all about winning new people and is hyper focused on building temples all over the world. This magnifies him but he says it magnifies Christ. Meanwhile you have a cult extracting a tithe regardless of anything else for a temple recommendation. It is the epitome of hypocrisy for the bishops to sit with each member and document the tithe while at the same time the riches of the whole Mormon kingdom are not even known but they can spend $100M on the mall closest to their Salt Lake City temple, putting in a retracting ceiling for the comfort of shoppers buying Mormon product. They enrich themselves and their centers and neglect their own poor. I am so glad I took this cult class as it has my mind focusing on patterns of behavior as opposed to the sales pitches involved. Or recognizing the sales pitches. And yes the class teacher fully admits in the intro that there is no specific definition for a cult that holds true across examples. Just patterns of behavior. And the overall feel of overstepping boundaries that should be in place for normal people.

Thanks, Rocky.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18668059-the-obstacle-is-the-way https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43582733-stillness-is-the-key https://goodreads.com/book/show/27036528.Ego_Is_the_Enemy He's written more than these three, but this trilogy are, IMO, the most significant. Highly readable, not overly long or tedious.

When the devil reminds you of your past you remind him “that you’re not the one who lost their soul to a fiddle player in Georgia biatch”.

It had everything to do with you rightly dividing the word. It had to do with someone supporting one of your theories, the absent Christ, which you later said was not taught in the class or the collaterals. So you apparently divided the word wrong that time and were elated someone agreed with you. **Points over Mike's head** Look, Mike, there goes the point. Believing=Receiving. So, believe people are going to berate you and what do you receive? **Cups hand to ear, listening**

When the Devil reminds you of your past, you remind him that he is a fictitious deflection point that can only speak to that which he is.

Before I went into the way corps program, I had something of a romanticized idea of what it was all about – an image comes to mind – me as an idealist of the counterculture 60s - peeking into the window of what appeared to be a tight-knit group…they hit me as kindred spirits who I imagined had a set of attitudes like my own – basically dissatisfied with the prevailing social norms… I guess from the outside a cult of personality can look like that. I’ve witnessed folks defend wierwille to the hilt – with the reasoning that we’re all human and make mistakes – and what they uphold is the truth contained in all his works…But that’s a huge misunderstanding – because it WAS the collaterals, PFAL, the programs WOW, Fellow Laborers, Way Corps, etc., that taught us to ignore feelings...to suppress intuition...to disengage cognitive skills…to twist the meaning of Scripture…to accept logical fallacies…the reason wierwille’s body of work won’t stand up to close scrutiny is BECAUSE (drum roll please ) it ALL was derived from the malignant narcissistic-deluded-morally depraved-hypocritical-megalomaniacal-money worshipping mind of victor paul wierwille – a harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian cult-leader extraordinaire ! (drum roll finishes with crash cymbals and the backup band does a big Tah-Dah ) The way corps appeared to be a tight-knit group is because they were! The intense indoctrination of the way corps program is one of the best kept secrets in TWI. In truth the way corps program was a clone factory. Maybe this was not the intention when the program was set up but it seems to me the whole thing wound up being a means of creating an idealized or somewhat worshipful idea of a leader – victor paul wierwille…in other words a cult of personality. ~ ~ ~ ~ We learned in the way corps to have complete confidence in everything wierwille wrote, said or did…I know in the Bible we are told to imitate the faith of godly leaders. But what if one fails to discern a counterfeit? I thought of passages like Matthew 7 and II Peter 2 . If there’s anything to verses like that, then it’s possible that false teachers can lead people astray. After leaving TWI, I’ve often wondered if there’s a point where fervent admiration for someone crosses the line. I would think of verses like Ezekiel 14:3 that talks of people setting up idols in their heart – if it’s in my heart, it’s invisible – no one else knows there’s an idol in my heart – perhaps even I wouldn’t realize it… I think a lot of people really believed in wierwille – and believed he could do no wrong. ~ ~ ~ ~ To be fair, even if a person is a godly leader, we can turn them into an idol when we cease to imitate their example of faith in God and instead make them the object of our faith. But looking back without the way-blinders on, it’s obvious to me now that wierwille wasn’t a godly leader – he lacked the moral uprightness and was lost in delusions of grandeur. For dedicated followers like the way corps, wierwille taught us to shun the status quo or conventional wisdom while at the same time making it clear that his authority was not to be challenged. Teachings on blind obedience were common in residence. Recalling my time in residence, it was extremely laser-focused on knowing The Power For Abundant Living class material backwards and forwards. I am NOT exaggerating! During the three meals we had each day in the dining room, we were randomly called upon to give a five-minute teaching - right there on the spot – and immediately critiqued right after that. Even back then I was disturbed by one fact (which at the time was another one of those things I relegated to the back burner) - that people who quoted PFAL material verbatim or with very little deviation from that, received the highest praise with little or no criticism... …In preparation for doing our research papers – which I suppose is one of the academic highlights of a college education – the current president L. Craig Martindale – (I can still remember him as he ) was pounding on the podium and bellowing out “Don’t try to reinvent the wheel – base your research paper on something from PFAL”…looking back now – do you know what all that tells me? The aim of the way corps program was to create little clones of wierwille. ~ ~ ~ ~ If you were or are in the way corps, or presently you are going through the training program…maybe you’re thinking about going in the way corps…maybe you have sponsored or currently sponsor someone in the way corps program you ought to check out the book Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International on Grease Spot Café the author goes by the name Penworks. She also started a thread about her book - click here . She worked in the research department of TWI. There’s some very revealing stuff in there about the shady inner workings of The Way International, how the precarious mythology of wierwille – like the story of him hearing God’s voice – is an unreliable basis for a belief system and the intellectual and emotional frustration we all experience within the TWI-mindset. One of the big takeaways of the book - in my opinion - is how wierwille who was supposedly so concerned about “the integrity and accuracy of The Word” had no qualms about pressuring the research department to mistranslate a Greek word so it would ‘validate’ what he thought a passage should say…hmmmm… what about his dictum “ private interpretation of the Bible is not allowed “? I guess it’s okay for wierwille to do that. And while you're thinking about ordering Penworks’ book you could always do some light reading of another thread started by Penworks Evidence: Letters VPW wrote to the Way Corps Try to read these newsletters as if you didn't know who wierwille or TWI was. I wonder if you would be as shocked as I was when you remove the PFAL filter and see how narcissistic, manipulative, and mean-spirited he was and what a berating personality he had – evidenced by his own words to the way corps - his most devoted followers...Of course, if you're already disappointed way corps this stuff is not new to you - but if you're not - perhaps you're seeing wierwille in a different light for the first time. Sorry to put you through that - sometimes truth hurts. ~ ~ ~ ~ Leaving The Way International can be extremely difficult. There might be extenuating circumstances like familial and social bonds, living arrangements, staff/leadership responsibilities. I was involved for 12 years – and in that time I managed to cut a lot of ties with family and old friends who were not interested in what TWI had to offer – plus they were sick of me trying to push PFAL. I speak from personal experience – consequences of indoctrination lead to one becoming isolated…I didn’t hear from or talk to outsiders in a meaningful way…so, why did I leave TWI? There’s a lot of reasons – what comes to mind most often was a growing awareness that I was being manipulated…that I was not in the driver’s seat on my spiritual journey – others were – the upper leadership of TWI. I let them decide the direction to take. If you feel anything like that – and maybe you’re thinking about leaving – be forewarned – there will be intellectual and emotional challenges ahead. I liken it to swimming upstream. The simpler, safer, and comfortable route is to stick with TWI. Reflecting on the year of my exit (1986), it slowly dawned on me that thinking like an adult had been trained out of me. I had lost a lot of self-confidence. You’d think once a person is done with way corps training they’d be treated like responsible adults who have grown-up and moved out of Mom & Dad’s home – but – NOPE! It didn’t matter if you were 25-years old…35…45…55… you were expected to check with upper leadership before making any major decisions. Self-doubt is a byproduct of TWI’s constant bombardment of your “old man nature” (which in TWI-jargon usually refers to what you were like before you joined TWI ). They also use some other hi-tech ammunition like berating folks for going by their five senses or using worldly logic. They will pontificate over your lack of "mastering" the PFAL material or other classes. Perhaps one of their deadliest missiles is sowing the fear of disobeying God or the fear of being misled by unbelievers and devil spirits. TWI wages a continuous silent war on one’s personhood – and one of the major casualties of these attacks is a type of identity crisis. I would often question myself...I usually lacked confidence in my own thinking process…I found myself at times wondering who I really was and if I fit in… Self-awareness is a conscious knowledge of our own character, true feelings, motives and desires. However, this may be difficult to perceive through that translucent overlay of TWI’s social identity “bestowed” on followers. It’s like wearing frosted glasses and looking at your own reflection in the mirror…details are diffused …individual features are not clear. We are social creatures and have a natural desire to fit in. But all too often the social influence of a group like The Way International causes discomfort, pain, fear, sadness, frustration and even anger and resentment deep down inside. So, to survive in the group and to insulate our authentic self from further harm, we adapt somehow. We bury uncomfortable feelings and put on our ministry-face. Our adaptive self enables us to get along in a challenging social environment like TWI with some success and with the least amount of conflict with others – but often at the expense of our authentic self going into hibernation... In my opinion the longer one stays involved with TWI the more the authentic self gets buried under TWI’s values, goals, priorities, contrived interpersonal skills, beliefs, behaviors - all of which serves TWI more than one’s own best interest... The authentic self, and not some TWI’s homogenized version of you, thrives on self-awareness and self-acceptance…self-examination is perhaps a life-long process…from time to time we may have to take stock of our beliefs and behaviors - and then change what doesn’t serve our best interests. ~ ~ ~ ~ …The initial path to freedom may be a lonely one... That’s why websites like Grease Spot may be someone’s only lifeline…Wherever your first taste of freedom comes from – I can tell you this – it will feel like a breath of fresh air! And take heart – getting reconnected with the outside world is not such a daunting task. You’ll find that human beings are a lot more alike than they are different. You are free to reconnect with old friends and make new friends. I can't say enough good things about all the folks at Grease Spot and what a great place it is to think out loud. If anything of what I've said strikes a nerve with you maybe, it's time for you to get down to brass tacks and focus on the heart of the matter. The critical issue is NOT what I've said about The Way International – or what anyone on Grease Spot Café has said about it. The most important thing about any of this stuff is what do YOU think …what do YOU feel? Below I’ve left some more thought food. ~ ~ ~ ~ Check out these other books by former way corps: The Cult that Snapped: The Journey into the Way International by Karl Kahler | eBook | Barnes & Noble® (barnesandnoble.com) Losing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse, and Escape: Skedgell, Kristen: 9780972002196: Amazon.com: Books See also Dangerous Cult Leaders | Psychology Today Spiritual Abuse Resources - Traumatic Abuse in Cults: A Psychoanalytic Perspective How to overcome Religious Abuse | RELIGION’S CELL (religionscell.com) Spiritual Abuse Resources - Mind Control - Psychological Reality or Mindless Rhetoric Groupthink Theory and Examples - Simply Psychology Groupthink | Psychology Today Spiritual Abuse Resources - Six Conditions for Thought Reform Spiritual Abuse Resources - Religion Versus Cult Spiritual Abuse Resources - Origins and Prevention of Abuse in Religious Groups Spiritual Abuse Resources - Characteristics Associated With Cultic Groups Spiritual Abuse Resources - A House of Mirrors How cult leaders entrap their followers — and their detractors | Karla McLaren THE ALLURE OF TOXIC LEADERS: WHY FOLLOWERS RARELY ESCAPE THEIR CLUTCHES - Ivey Business Journal 4 Personality Traits Cult Leaders Have In Common (culteducation.com) Why People Become Narcissists, Gaslighters and Cult Members | Psychology Today Authoritarian Parenting: Examples, Definition, Effects (verywellmind.com) Why Authoritarians Love Religion | Psychology Today that's all for now, folks