Twinky

Just to make it clear, it was DWBH's post #21 above that was edited - what DWBH said - not what I said (above).

I don't think pro-abortion was about controlling the minions, MRAP; it was more about attempting to controlling the evidence that this "church" advocated "free love" among its head men and needed to keep that hidden from the general public (and its own followers). That attituded filtered down and eventually reached the twigs. where people had already been primed in PFAL. If there is free love among the twig members and some of them might have had abortions, it would be easier to attack those same women if they came into the Corps: their barriers against this had already been broken down.

DWBH, you make the above allegation - but how do you know this?

Very often, people who have been either heavily dependent on drugs, or in prison (let's just say, captured, for both) go through a sort of arrested development. When they come out of prison, or get free of their drugs - there their old self is, but delayed by the period they've been captured. So if someone goes to prison at age 18 for 7 or 8 years, in many ways they're still only 18 when released. And for druggies, the same. And that's despite a lot of experiences, mostly unpleasant, that were enjoyed or endured whilst captured. That's because the normal emotional growing up that they would do with their peer group has been suspended. Now think : TWI as imprisonment, drugged-up, etc.

Hit singles? You mean, like that song that made it onto YouTube - The Renewed Mind is the Key - like that? :evildenk:/> I won't offend your ears and eyes by posting it again. Ah! You didn't mean songs that were singles...

:offtopic:/> In context of being a cheerful giver and of being conscious (thoughtful) of where you give money, you might be interested in the following two websites that attempt to evaluate charities for their impact and their best use of donated moneys. Notably some of the bigger/more famous charities don't make it to the "best value" places. It does not mean, of course, that your pet charity/ies isn't "good value" or doesn't carefully manage donations. You may prefer to donate to charities of which you have your own knowledge and involvement with. It's your hard-earned money; make it work hard for someone else when they spend it; don't let it line the pocket of a rich CEO. One of the following has a page on "tips" to consider, questions to ask, when it comes to giving, particularly of large donations. GiveWell Giving What We Can

Report in ComputerWorld: My link

Thanks, George. I don't think I'll be going there any time soon! I dislike Win 8 and don't need any more annoyances! When MS sorts out Win 10 properly...in a few years...maybe... :)

Nice to see you back here for a while, DWBH.

Dana - your story gets worse. Who set that for the second wedding date? Not your Mum, I'm sure! If she's still alive, it's time for her to open her "lock box" and shout loudly about the contents - just as you are doing. How is your brother doing now? Please remember some of the good times with your dad, with us. The things some people have posted on this thread are very kind and perhaps a comfort for you to read.

VPW also used this verse to support his claim: Ex 21:22: If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. VPW said that if she miscarried as a result of the fighting (striving), then the punishment was only a fine. If it had been a person, it would have had a life and the penalties for the taking of a life would have applied [death or banishment]. He glossed over or rather ignored the "no further mischief" aspect. But look at this same verse in other translations. Several look at this as meaning simply "premature birth" and some go on to talk about premature birth with no further injury (mischief) - ie, death of the child/ren or the mother. The commentaries on this Biblehub link are interesting, especially Gill's commentary (at the bottom of the page).

:offtopic:/>I thought this was interesting from that web page, waysider: © 2014 S.O.W.E.R.S.®. (L.E.A.D. Outdoor Academy™ and W.O.W. Ambassadors™ are trademarks of S.O.W.E.R.S.®) And you know who fiercely protected their trademarks, name, etc...

So - Johniam - what "faith" was VPW demonstrating by his works upon young women? And upon the young women's husbands, if they had a husband? or more familiarly: If one can tell what is going on in a child's head and heart by the child's actions, by the outward demonstration of what the child believes, how much more for an adult? Remember, we're not looking in the short term of a quick and convenient lie about something that VPW did or didn't do - anyone can lie and dissemble for a short period. On the contrary, we're considering the pattern of behavior over a period of years. Over some decades, what does that man's actions betray about his heart? His thoughts? His faith? And that's what gives the right, or insight, to know what's in someone else's heart. The long-term actions, or works, of that someone. Whether that someone be VPW, Johniam, Rocky, the Pope, the President, the Queen ...

Another excellent post, Steve. Well put. :eusa_clap:/> For those not interested in "multiple centres of reference" - Proverbs 15:22 (ESV) (my emphasis): 22 Without counsel plans fail, but with many advisers they succeed. For anyone interested in wise counsel: Wise Counsel - from Open Bible

Steve - thanks for these three wonderful posts that set out your history (and perhaps something akin to the history of many of us). You present your account very clearly. I especially liked: " I had been in love with TWI because the people in my original twig had loved me, and I attributed the same kind of love to all of the rest of the people involved with TWI..." The hook that got most of us, it seems. Thank you again.

Over HoHo Relo, they expected you to meet and mate with some random female? Or some female that you'd already known? Sh@g 'em and leave 'em? Only responsibility = get rid of the evidence? A somewhat different approach from most churches, which advocate more of a pre-marital celibacy line.

Mea culpa, Sky, thought you were out before 1995. I'd been banished by then. I never got there in 1995. So... a RoA with "real" (ahem) d.s. infiltration. (1) where was the BoDs' "believing" to keep these d.s. away in the first place? (2) why didn't the BoD or one or more of them simply banish the d.s.? You know, a real exorcism. Ah heck. Much easier for the BoD to banish all believers, rather than banish a few d.s. Holding a RoA might also have exposed the dramatic fall in numbers. If the BigTop was as empty as the auditorium is now, who'd want to be there at all? But you could well be right, Sky, with your assessment that the cost of bringing all the WC in wouldn't be cheap (even if you do have$65m in the bank).

That's the pattern that was set all through Corps training: 4 hours "study" which could be interrupted at will if something more important was mandated (like killing chickens) and four hours work experience (tidying the pens in the drawers or doing the washing up). What got me more was the inability to participate in RoA at all. It was really after your time, Sky, but it was basically 18 hrs hard work and little time to socialise with one's spiritual partners, friends and whoever. Specially hard for internationals like me - when the people had come thousands of miles on expensive overseas flights and I couldn't get time off to spend with them. I was happy to do the work assigned to me and to serve people, but a few hours off to hang out with "my" visitors would have been nice. And I didn't get much opportunity to "enjoy" Corps week either. I often wasn't released from my normal work tasks to participate. Don't suppose I missed much, though.

Wow. What a sad story. I can't add any info at all (long before my time there) but extend sympathies to the entire family.

Just bumping up this humorous old thread for further additions and amusement.

Not quite the same, Allan, but in the UK you don't lose points, you are given them. And if you are awarded 12 points, you get an extra award: disqualification. All offences start at 3 points and some are awarded from 3 to 11 depending on the seriousness of the offence. Points are usually there for a min 3 yrs. There may be other penalties as well (fine, restrictions on driving times, short prison sentences). There is also "diversion" for minor offences. Typically this is for the person who is caught going just above the speed limit (say 34mph in a 30 zone) but not otherwise doing anything wrong (like being dangerous, swerving around, using a mobile phone etc). The offender has to undertake (at a fee) a 4 hour course and be an active participant. This keeps the driving licence clean, you don't have to tell the insurance company (so no effect on raising premium) and actually does promote better driving behaviour. If you're caught doing the same thing (eg speeding) within three years, you get points for the later offence and how many is based on your failure to learn from the previous course (ie, instead of getting 3 points you might get more.

"Penny rich and pound foolish," waysider. Save money on pens and toilet paper, and blow it on vehicles, fancy clothes and Drambuie.

WG, that's disgusting. Chronic sin in your life? Heck, aren't we all sinners - chronic sinners? (Even if we're born again! we still sin!!). Jesus, I recall, yelled at a man who had had a chronic illness such that he couldn't walk. And was too lazy to get into a magic pool. Yeah right. Hey, wait, didn't he do something similar when the man's mates tore open the roof? (Can you imagine doing that in the WoW Auditorium. Hahahahahahaha!) And his disciples - just as bad, didn't give out silver or gold, just a b-llocking to a man who hadn't ever walked. Yeah, right. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sure that in every respect your life is incomparably more healthy now, WG :knuddel:/>

I stand fully behind my post #7 on this thread. And even from his grave, VPW has got us distracted from ***GOD*** and got us wasting time on arguing about words. Just words - though there is some effort on this thread, to address the concept behind the words. Read other versions; try using synonyms; don't split hairs or even split the atom - keep it simple If understanding is getting more complicated - the "explanation" is probably not of God.