waysider

Well, I have the tests, but I'm not going to let YOU use them!!! HeeHeeHee. Just kiddin'. I still have the *home studies* series that had to be completed in order to be accepted into the Advanced Class. Is there a specific question you were interested in? I'd be glad to post it for you.

Well, now That looks like it might be relevant to the topic at hand. Care to elaborate?

We interrupt this regularly scheduled program to bring you this brief message from "one of the guys". A long time ago, I was hitchhiking on a dark, deserted inner city street ,late at night in a very tough area of town. I got a ride. After a few blocks, it became apparent to me what this guy had in mind and he didn't seem to be the type who was interested in the idea of "consent". (need I say more?) So, some may say" But you're a guy." That's true, but guys get raped ,too. Don't kid yourself. But that's not really the point I'm driving toward. I'll shorten the story and tell you that a tire iron he had left on the cab floor(it was a pick-up truck) proved to be a very persuasive tool in convincing him to let me go. I escaped unharmed and moments later, all by my self, walking down the street, I spoke in tongues for the very first time. Another time, many years later, I stood at the front door of a home to inform the occupant I was there to take repossession of some equipment. When the door swung open, I found myself looking down the business end of a shot gun. I backed down and called the sheriff in to help me. Anyway, I didn't get raped or shot. I did, however, come face to face with at least a sampling of the kind of terror that rape victims probably feel. It's a helpless feeling and I only got a SMALL SAMPLING of it. It's scary stuff, guys. Here's my point: As a guy, you tend to rehearse in your mind what you would do if this or that happens. "Hey, first I'll sucker punch him, then I'll spin around and grab the gun"------- and on and on. Don't fool yourself. You really don't know exactly how you would react until you are staring reality square in the face. Now, stop to realize that some of this stuff happened in Podunk, Ohio, in the middle of nowhere and the victims may have been hundreds or thousands of miles from home, with no real kind of support system, with very little money and limited access to transportation or even a phone. Yeah, it's easy to say "Well, I would have Karate chopped him and broke his nose"---- and so on. But really, you don't know what you would have done any more than I knew what I would do in the two incidents I cited. How these women reacted is not relevant to whether they were betrayed or mistreated. "Walk a mile in my shoes." Was that in the PFAL class? It should have been. .

Outfield Interesting -----Very interesting.

When I read Mr. Strange's post, I thought, "Holy Crud! The guy's reading my mind!" I too had been away for quite some time before I came here and got a byotch slap of reality straight to the face. For a long time, I felt like bad things that had taken place in my life must have been caused by my leaving the "one true household" or because I was "out of fellowship" in some way that I couldn't quite put my finger on. In some strange way, it brought me a sense of relief to find that it wasn't because of my leaving TWI. Why would God allow bad things to happen in my life because I chose to leave a CULT??? That just doesn't make sense. I haven't told everything I know or have seen, but I have my own special reasons for feeling quite strongly that VPW was not the great Man Of God he has been portrayed to be. In fact, I have my own personal reasons for believing he was much to the contrary. I don't feel compelled to elaborate. When I read Groucho's post, it set the wheels( of thought) spinning. I formally studied acting at one time in my life about a thousand years ago. I even worked with two different Equity companies. Mostly, my parts were limited to the "Dinner is served." variety. I was never any kind of great actor. I did, however, have enough formal training, by well known professionals, to at least offer an educated critique. I, too, think the guy was giving a performance. Real people can't simply turn it on and off at the drop of a hat. Actors can----------at least in the context of a performance.That's why it's called "acting". Wierwille was clever enough to never "fall out of character" while he was "on stage". Here is part of my critique of his performance, both in PFAL and live on stage. He was masterful at manipulating both pace and timing. He was exceptionally skilled at reading the mood of the audience, or, in the case of PFAL, the anticipated audience. He was quite good at drawing on previous experiences to elicit the appearance of genuine emotion(ie: method acting.) He knew how to separate himself off stage from the character he portrayed on stage----- a skill that is vitally important to maintaining believability when the curtain goes up. I guess I should really say those are some big things I learned as a RESULT of taking PFAL.

One could only hope so. At least then there would be some kind of punch line to look forward to.

You are.( not *just my opinion*)

The concept of "building a sale" was also given to VeePee by heavy revvy. "Would you care to try a side order of self delusion with your order today?"

One of the bigger things I learned in PFAL----------- A person can rationalize (or justify) just about anything in their own thinking if they really make the effort. "Why didn't people just leave?"( Oldies question, paraphrased.) Dunno, Oldies, why are you still there?

A sign should read - "Leave Your Dignity In the Box - it will be returned upon your leaving, if you still want it." Or----If there's anything left of it. There was actually a place in Cleveland(back when dinosaurs roamed) that tried the wide aisle thing. People loved it. Who knew that commercial space leased out by the square foot? Eventually they had to pass the additional lease costs onto the consumer in the form of higher prices. Kinda makes a guy want to throw his hands up in surrender and go pick his own *poke salad* out in the swamps somewhere. CHOMP!

A blanket question for apologists in general: (Hypothetical, of course) Suppose, for a moment, God gave you revelation that went waaaaay beyond the old *small, still voice*,that 'TWI was a scam and VeePee was a sham'.(But there was no clear cut Word of Wisdom on what to do with it) What would you do? A. Shout it from the rooftops? B. Keep it to yourself?(people are sure to slam you for speaking it.) C. Ask your twig leader because he/she is your spiritual mentor? D. Chalk it up as an "unrenewed mind" experience? E. Walk away from TWI and never look back? BUT WAIT! There's another alternative.----- Refuse to even consider it might be genuine. Yeah, yeah, that must be the correct answer. After all, the Devil himself got Eve to consider what God had said and she wound up in deep doo-doo. At least that's what the Dr. said in PFAL. Nope. Never consider that something might not be as you first had thought it to be. That could leave you standing in deep doo-doo, like Eve. OR---------Maybe FAILURE to consider it might leave you standing in deep doo-doo. Guess you should go with *refusing to consider it*. That's from PFAL----------------Refusing to consider it, that is. ---(session #7, for all the documentation sticklers.)

Deciderator The 2 words you referenced are one and the same. They have the same meaning. One is simply an obsolete form of the other. Wierwille taught that one was an intensified version of the other. It is not. He did this to amplify segments of that teaching disproportionately.(IMO) That is an error, plain and simple.

This thread seems to have become fragmented. We are discussing three different topics as though they were one. 1.Prayer 2. Believing 3. The *Law Of Believing* They are separate topics, interwoven at times, perhaps, but separate topics, none the less. The thread title is: The Law Of Believing

Hey, Johniam I like ya man, I really do. But, this ain't about how far away the sun is or if your boss is givin' ya a bum deal on your pay. It's about whether or not it's important how many were crucified with Christ, How many denials of Peter there were, etc. Now, you might think that understanding every nuance of a Greek word is important. And, maybe to you, it is.(That's you.) To me, not so much so.(That's me.) Maybe it's just me, but I think God would be plenty happy if we could at least learn to treat each other fairly, respect each others' differences, help each other when the chips are down and acknowledge His presence. Hupo,hippo, hypo, herpo----------WHooooo cares? Learn to love your fellow man.(all inclusive) That's a big enough challenge to occupy anyone's lifetime.

Hiya, Jonny Yes, knowing the significance of the *passover lamb* is, indeed, a priceless bit of information. Peace, Brother Waysider

Might as well save your breath, Alfakat. Only those who are daring enough to -----HORRORS!-------- "consider" what you are saying, will be able to make sense of it. And those *ain't* the ones who need to hear it. Enjoyed your post immensely, just the same.

Before we all moved on to "bigger' things, a bunch of us locals(guys only) would get together on Friday nights to watch the late nite horror flick(which was hosted by a guy who wore a white lab coat, fright wig and sunglasses with one lens missing.) No beer or weed. "Dem's da rules". Just "Si" and "Za"(Pep-Si and piz-Za) We met in the upstairs bedroom of a guy who played drums, Paul C**per.( May he rest in peace.) ( I think he played in Branded in later years.) We called it the *boud* (Short for boudoir). It was all just good, unsupervised fun. Oh, wait, I almost forgot , we actually did have one official rule: No manies, prayers, teachings or doctrinal discussions! Sigh.---- I guess that doesn't actually qualify as a *twig* memory but it is a memory of good time spent with *twig* people. And, as the TV host used to say at the end of his show: "Hey,grrroup!---Stay sick, turn blue and scratch glass!"

"For the first time in my life, the Bible made sense." Gee, now where was it I heard that exact quote, word for word, before? Oh, wait!---- Now I remember! It was in the PFAL class( spoken by Mr. Wierwille, himself.) Oh, shoot, you probably already knew that. The *numero uno* lesson I learned in PFAL was that you should never, ever allow yourself to even consider that what you once thought was God's word, may have been a misrepresentation of the truth. That's what Eve did and look what it got her. Shudder! (Session #7 for those who absolutely MUST have documentation.) Nope. Never budge. STAND!! HeeHeeHee. Sounds more like an exercise in self perpetuating delusions than an honest and open approach to expanding one's mental and academic horizons. But, hey!----That's just my opinion. (Which I arrived at by *considering* and even------gasp!--------*doubting* some of the things I have learned in the past.

Where can I find this reference to the 5 different kinds of believing? Just curious. Yes, John, that is my point. If this so-called *believing* works for saint and sinner alike, how does a relationship with God or Jesus factor into the equation? BTW---That's just me, "speaking for myself".

Well, I knew at least one. He can't post here,if you get my drift. :(

Well, if I told you I remembered, wouldn't I still be subject to the penalty of death? Seems like we might have discussed this at the "initiation into the inner sanctum". Oh, my gosh!!! I did it again!

Ya know, a lot of people don't realize that I am the original writer of the classic song, Louie, Louie. Yep. that's right. In fact, it was my idea to mumble and slur words so that the uninitiated would not be able to to tell you were actually saying.---"#@##$%^*" ---or even ---"&%*^*$#@"---- and not -----"Grandpa has hemorrhoids." Of course, A lot of people will try to take credit for that but in my heart, I'll always know the truth. For anyone who is interested in studying this further, I have given detailed accounts in my soon to be released book entitled: The Passing Of A Pop Song.(Garter Belts Revisited.)

Long before my Mom ever heard of TWI or took "The Class" or ran a twig, she told us kids that God loved us for who we are,not who we could become. Maybe that's as close to the true Word as we can hope to get.

"The law of believing works for saint and sinner alike." Yep---Mr. Wierwille said that. How does that figure into having a "relationship" with God? In fact, I don't see any evidence of a "relationship" at all in that statement, just a cold calculated approach to deciding what you think God should give you or do in your life. And, hey, you can even leave God out of it entirely if you so choose to take that approach. It's good to maintain a positive outlook on life because having a negative outlook can have negative effects on your physical well being. That's a proven medical fact. It has nothing to do with whether or not the "law" of believing can generate results. I'm not trying to negate anyone's belief in God or his ability to honor his promises. I'm just saying it's kinda cheesy to try to blackmail him using a loophole in the scriptures.

And there you have it. Take one little word( in this case "we"), and squeeze it like a sponge until it produces the desired bounty. You know danged well who "we" referred to, Oldies. Skyrider said: "We became followers of men who claimed to have "the rightly divided Word." Are you now saying you were never a "follower" of VPW? You sure could have fooled me by the context and nature of your posts. You got skunked, my friend. Sorry to burst your bubble.