waysider

A sign should read - "Leave Your Dignity In the Box - it will be returned upon your leaving, if you still want it." Or----If there's anything left of it. There was actually a place in Cleveland(back when dinosaurs roamed) that tried the wide aisle thing. People loved it. Who knew that commercial space leased out by the square foot? Eventually they had to pass the additional lease costs onto the consumer in the form of higher prices. Kinda makes a guy want to throw his hands up in surrender and go pick his own *poke salad* out in the swamps somewhere. CHOMP!

A blanket question for apologists in general: (Hypothetical, of course) Suppose, for a moment, God gave you revelation that went waaaaay beyond the old *small, still voice*,that 'TWI was a scam and VeePee was a sham'.(But there was no clear cut Word of Wisdom on what to do with it) What would you do? A. Shout it from the rooftops? B. Keep it to yourself?(people are sure to slam you for speaking it.) C. Ask your twig leader because he/she is your spiritual mentor? D. Chalk it up as an "unrenewed mind" experience? E. Walk away from TWI and never look back? BUT WAIT! There's another alternative.----- Refuse to even consider it might be genuine. Yeah, yeah, that must be the correct answer. After all, the Devil himself got Eve to consider what God had said and she wound up in deep doo-doo. At least that's what the Dr. said in PFAL. Nope. Never consider that something might not be as you first had thought it to be. That could leave you standing in deep doo-doo, like Eve. OR---------Maybe FAILURE to consider it might leave you standing in deep doo-doo. Guess you should go with *refusing to consider it*. That's from PFAL----------------Refusing to consider it, that is. ---(session #7, for all the documentation sticklers.)

Deciderator The 2 words you referenced are one and the same. They have the same meaning. One is simply an obsolete form of the other. Wierwille taught that one was an intensified version of the other. It is not. He did this to amplify segments of that teaching disproportionately.(IMO) That is an error, plain and simple.

This thread seems to have become fragmented. We are discussing three different topics as though they were one. 1.Prayer 2. Believing 3. The *Law Of Believing* They are separate topics, interwoven at times, perhaps, but separate topics, none the less. The thread title is: The Law Of Believing

Hey, Johniam I like ya man, I really do. But, this ain't about how far away the sun is or if your boss is givin' ya a bum deal on your pay. It's about whether or not it's important how many were crucified with Christ, How many denials of Peter there were, etc. Now, you might think that understanding every nuance of a Greek word is important. And, maybe to you, it is.(That's you.) To me, not so much so.(That's me.) Maybe it's just me, but I think God would be plenty happy if we could at least learn to treat each other fairly, respect each others' differences, help each other when the chips are down and acknowledge His presence. Hupo,hippo, hypo, herpo----------WHooooo cares? Learn to love your fellow man.(all inclusive) That's a big enough challenge to occupy anyone's lifetime.

Hiya, Jonny Yes, knowing the significance of the *passover lamb* is, indeed, a priceless bit of information. Peace, Brother Waysider

Might as well save your breath, Alfakat. Only those who are daring enough to -----HORRORS!-------- "consider" what you are saying, will be able to make sense of it. And those *ain't* the ones who need to hear it. Enjoyed your post immensely, just the same.

Before we all moved on to "bigger' things, a bunch of us locals(guys only) would get together on Friday nights to watch the late nite horror flick(which was hosted by a guy who wore a white lab coat, fright wig and sunglasses with one lens missing.) No beer or weed. "Dem's da rules". Just "Si" and "Za"(Pep-Si and piz-Za) We met in the upstairs bedroom of a guy who played drums, Paul C**per.( May he rest in peace.) ( I think he played in Branded in later years.) We called it the *boud* (Short for boudoir). It was all just good, unsupervised fun. Oh, wait, I almost forgot , we actually did have one official rule: No manies, prayers, teachings or doctrinal discussions! Sigh.---- I guess that doesn't actually qualify as a *twig* memory but it is a memory of good time spent with *twig* people. And, as the TV host used to say at the end of his show: "Hey,grrroup!---Stay sick, turn blue and scratch glass!"

"For the first time in my life, the Bible made sense." Gee, now where was it I heard that exact quote, word for word, before? Oh, wait!---- Now I remember! It was in the PFAL class( spoken by Mr. Wierwille, himself.) Oh, shoot, you probably already knew that. The *numero uno* lesson I learned in PFAL was that you should never, ever allow yourself to even consider that what you once thought was God's word, may have been a misrepresentation of the truth. That's what Eve did and look what it got her. Shudder! (Session #7 for those who absolutely MUST have documentation.) Nope. Never budge. STAND!! HeeHeeHee. Sounds more like an exercise in self perpetuating delusions than an honest and open approach to expanding one's mental and academic horizons. But, hey!----That's just my opinion. (Which I arrived at by *considering* and even------gasp!--------*doubting* some of the things I have learned in the past.

Where can I find this reference to the 5 different kinds of believing? Just curious. Yes, John, that is my point. If this so-called *believing* works for saint and sinner alike, how does a relationship with God or Jesus factor into the equation? BTW---That's just me, "speaking for myself".

Well, I knew at least one. He can't post here,if you get my drift. :(

Well, if I told you I remembered, wouldn't I still be subject to the penalty of death? Seems like we might have discussed this at the "initiation into the inner sanctum". Oh, my gosh!!! I did it again!

Ya know, a lot of people don't realize that I am the original writer of the classic song, Louie, Louie. Yep. that's right. In fact, it was my idea to mumble and slur words so that the uninitiated would not be able to to tell you were actually saying.---"#@##$%^*" ---or even ---"&%*^*$#@"---- and not -----"Grandpa has hemorrhoids." Of course, A lot of people will try to take credit for that but in my heart, I'll always know the truth. For anyone who is interested in studying this further, I have given detailed accounts in my soon to be released book entitled: The Passing Of A Pop Song.(Garter Belts Revisited.)

Long before my Mom ever heard of TWI or took "The Class" or ran a twig, she told us kids that God loved us for who we are,not who we could become. Maybe that's as close to the true Word as we can hope to get.

"The law of believing works for saint and sinner alike." Yep---Mr. Wierwille said that. How does that figure into having a "relationship" with God? In fact, I don't see any evidence of a "relationship" at all in that statement, just a cold calculated approach to deciding what you think God should give you or do in your life. And, hey, you can even leave God out of it entirely if you so choose to take that approach. It's good to maintain a positive outlook on life because having a negative outlook can have negative effects on your physical well being. That's a proven medical fact. It has nothing to do with whether or not the "law" of believing can generate results. I'm not trying to negate anyone's belief in God or his ability to honor his promises. I'm just saying it's kinda cheesy to try to blackmail him using a loophole in the scriptures.

And there you have it. Take one little word( in this case "we"), and squeeze it like a sponge until it produces the desired bounty. You know danged well who "we" referred to, Oldies. Skyrider said: "We became followers of men who claimed to have "the rightly divided Word." Are you now saying you were never a "follower" of VPW? You sure could have fooled me by the context and nature of your posts. You got skunked, my friend. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Hee,Hee! Sounds like you are describing a typical "Manna" night. Do you make your own mayo and familia when you get back home?

"Am I missing something?"!!!! Duh!!!---- I think you are. VP screwed her( sorry for the graphic description.). Drugs, no drugs. Consent, no consent. Those are moot points used to justify the wrong he did as a married man and as a representative of God who was supposed to live a life that was beyond reproach. Oh, well, he made a mistake.-------- You're damn right he made a mistake, he led thousands of unsuspecting people to believe he had some special connection to God Almighty.IMO, I don't believe he had any more connection than any of us, maybe even LESS.). VPW= King Solomon---------- Now that's a really good punch line. Too bad there really is no joke that could properly precede it.

Yeah, I had some good times in the Good Old Days. Looking back, they were *in spite* of being connected to TWI and not *because of it*. I'm not afraid to remember those times in a favorable light. I'm just not naive enough anymore to let them skew my realization of what really happened. If it makes you happy to remember the good stuff, I say go for it. Just be careful not to feel too let down when you discover that some people no longer have a desire to sit around the campfire and sing Kumbaiya M'Lord.

And yet, after all that time, frogs(and other amphibians) are suddenly dying out all over the planet with no obvious cause. What's up with that?

Psssst! (Avoid the clam sauce if it has been marked down!!)

I can only speak for myself, and quite frankly, I don't always do THAT very well. If I had known beforehand( for certain) what this amusement ride called TWI was going to be like, I surely would not have bought a ticket or stood in line to ride. Yeah, I accept some blame for sticking around as long as I did, but I also think I was conned into buying a product that was promoted with false advertising. Truth be known, I actually felt guilty about LEAVING until I came here and discovered that things were not as they had appeared to be. I had drifted away and did not know what had happened with TWI. Some of the blame, ultimately, has to fall on the advertiser who duped unwitting customers. edited for speeling.

Yep, that's how it goes. (Waysider wore one himself in his wild pre-TWI days.) However, a WWII Navy veteran told me that they used to piece one ear as they crossed the equator north to south and the other one as they returned south to north. Of course, they only pierced it and didn't continue to wear the earing.

SNIP OK, Jonny, I see your point. But, it was Wierwille, himself, who said, in PFAL, that "the law of believing works for saint and sinner alike." It would appear to me that what you are describing may not be the same thing as this "law" that was promoted in The Way. I could be wrong. That's just my observation.

Jonny I'm pretty sure it was well known by hydrologists and geologists what lies beneath the surface in Alaska long before the days of Uncle Harry and VP. The Van Swearingen family is well known in Ohio for their work in geology and drilling as well as their ties to a historic figure known as Blue Jacket. I work in a related field. Drilling is a crap shoot. Sometimes you hit water, sometimes you hit gas, sometimes oil and sometimes you hit the big goose egg. Sometimes you have to drill for one on purpose to find another. There is also a Van Swearingen family( maybe even the same family roots) who are well known as seafaring people. (17th and 18th century) At any rate, if the Alaska story has credence to it, I personally doubt his misfortune was due to not following the orders of the MOG. Just my opinion, brother, everybody's got one. PS-- let's talk harmonicas sometime.