WordWolf

Frankly, since you asked, the program was instituted poorly and on a whim, was designed by a few people with NO training nor experience with training programs, was designed far too quickly (especially for people with no skill at such), was executed poorly, and was NEVER evaluated with a view towards redesigning it with improvements. That it was MADE to work for many participants (many people came out and managed to gain benefit while in it) is a testimony to many participants and many staff. The WORST program can be MADE to work by SOMEBODY, and the BEST program will never be 100% effective. Therefore, it should never have been instituted in the first place. If it was GOING to be set up, it should have been designed completely differently, by people with experience, training and skill. (In short, not vpw, who designed this one mostly single-handedly and added some stuff later with the input of a few.) That having been said, Yes, I PERSONALLY could design a program superior in most (or all) ways. I will not POST such advice because I don't put a loaded pistol in the hands of a toddler, and I don't tell twi how to improve fleecing people. Feel free to disbelief me on being able to design better. (Frankly, I DID design better once, and I could vastly improve on the process NOW.)

Here's how the "requirements" and "committment" process went for the average corps person.... If you hadn't taken pfal, you were leaned on to take pfal. If you had taken pfal but not the intermediate, you were leaned on to take pfal. If you had taken the intermediate but not the advanced, you were leaned on to take the advanced. If you completed the advanced, you were leaned on to go wow. If you finished wow AND the advanced (either order), you were leaned on to go corps. What if you didn't go corps? Well, then the subject is dropped-today. Tomorrow it will come up again. And the next day. In short, once you showed up, you were on either the fast track or the slow track to going corps and thus, hitchhiking and going to LEAD. The slow track: you were never a viable candidate for the corps, so you'll be sold as many classes as possible, and that you can be talked into. The fast track: you're the right age for the corps. You will now be leaned on first to take all classes, THEN to go corps. To NOT go corps means you'll have to make the deliberate decision NOT to go at some point, and steadfastly maintain it from then on, and ignore anything said about you from then on. The "screening process" for the corps was encapsulated in vpw's phrase "You can stay as long as your money holds!" After that, people were released from the corps only on 2 conditions: A) they became a financial or legal liability or B) vpw got into a mood and kicked them out or their entire class out For a program touted as highly as the way corps was, it was ill-conceived, ill-prepared, and ill-executed, and ill-screened. Diligence and consideration SHOULD have been part of each step. The only things we saw "diligence" in (mostly) were "is your money on time?" and "I read your 'birth to the corps' paper." So, you were fairly well swept along by the process unless you made a deliberate effort to stop. Otherwise, you'd be talked into the next step and the next, eventually ending up in the corps unless you had a compelling reason NOT to be there. That's the OPPOSITE of how MOST groups train and select leaders, and find candidates for what is supposedly an ELITE program. And what if you changed your mind? doojable: rhino (ex-corps) on the "screening process":

See, there's big differences between at least 3 different things, and someone-for reasons they keep avoiding- keeps trying to say the 3 things are nearly identical, whereas their differences often strike at the heart of the discussion. For example: There ARE orders where Christians make lifelong commitments to go where they are told to go, serve where they are told to serve, and leave when they are told to leave. Those are referred to by many names, among them Holy Orders, the Priesthood, and so on. Now, THOSE people don't just make ONE decision to enter one program and now they're the property of the organization. (No matter WHAT you were told.) They receive training, and counseling. They are questioned as to their commitment and reasoning. They receive more training, and are REQUIRED to meditate upon, and consider deeply, over and over, the consequences of their decision. It is FAR better for the organization to lose 90% of their candidates than for them to place unstable, corrupt people in all their offices. Those that decide to go ahead swear their oaths, and leave modern society, in a sense. THEY'VE sworn oaths of poverty and chastity and stuff I don't know about because I've never sworn their oaths. Now, THEY signed up for a lifetime serving their organization. Clear. Unambiguous. Everything spelled out for YEARS long before they sign up. THEIR programs don't get the participants raped or killed. They actually CARE when someone gets hurt during the process. Mark! Can you give us something about what goes into THAT? I'd bet my life it's more than "pay us money" "sign your name" "write out your biography" and then you're committed to 4 years of involuntary servitude that you PAID FOR, followed by a lifetime where you must obey our whims whenever we declare them...

WordWolf: Oldiesman: Since your answer to that one is "the leader is completely blameless" "go ahead and do that again anytime, that's fine", then either the RESULTS don't matter (participants being raped or killed doesn't matter) or the PEOPLE don't matter (anything making them unuseable is a mathematical consideration) Either way, nearly every thinking person would disagree with you. I can't think of ANYONE who would expect that program to continue, and the leader to not get into LEGAL trouble. =========================== doojable: Oldiesman: "I just think they were following a different path." This path involved considering people raped and killed as "the cost of doing business." Unusual path in the United States... "I think they looked at these incidents as the adversary ripping us off, and saying "we aren't stopping our training program because we do not admit defeat to the adversary." If they stopped hitchhiking, they would be admitting that the adversary won in that situation and stopped the corps from training individuals to abandon their fear of hitchhiking and confidence building" Or they could find a way for people to confront fear and increase confidence WITHOUT making rape and murder an expected consequence for some. But- if they did that, it would cost money. Hitchhiking was $0.00.... "As crazy as that logic and concept may sound today, I don't see any evil in that. It was part of doctrine of twi and we all bought into it at the time." "As crazy as that logic and concept may sound today, I don't see any evil in that. It was part of doctrine of twi and we all bought into it at the time." "As crazy as that logic and concept may sound today, I don't see any evil in that. It was part of doctrine of twi and we all bought into it at the time." That was worth repeating. There we have it. We bought into it then. Therefore-although 20/20 hindsight makes it look crazy- I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT. We bought into it then. Anything we bought into then was perfectly fine-never having ANY EVIL. No matter how clear it looks now with more information, or maturity, or any other information enlightens us. We did it then, we had good intentions == it was perfectly fine. Had a problem with it THEN-you were a coward and lacked committment. Have a problem with it NOW-you're "thinking evil". Interesting personal philosophy. Forgive us for not lining up to join your church.

Thank you for finding the right threads. Hm. This is going to take a bit of time....

I wanted to put this together on the same post, because it's part of the same set of policies and practices. (No matter what one or 2 people say.) WordWolf: In short, once you showed up, you were on either the fast track or the slow track to going corps and thus, hitchhiking and going to LEAD. The slow track: you were never a viable candidate for the corps, so you'll be sold as many classes as possible, and that you can be talked into. The fast track: you're the right age for the corps. You will now be leaned on first to take all classes, THEN to go corps. To NOT go corps means you'll have to make the deliberate decision NOT to go at some point, and steadfastly maintain it from then on, and ignore anything said about you from then on. The "screening process" for the corps was encapsulated in vpw's phrase "You can stay as long as your money holds!" After that, people were released from the corps only on 2 conditions: A) they became a financial or legal liability or B) vpw got into a mood and kicked them out or their entire class out For a program touted as highly as the way corps was, it was ill-conceived, ill-prepared, and ill-executed, and ill-screened. Diligence and consideration SHOULD have been part of each step. The only things we saw "diligence" in (mostly) were "is your money on time?" and "I read your 'birth to the corps' paper."

That has been brought up before, but it helps to show new people and different people all keep coming to the same conclusion. He took part of what TOTW said. When you remove PART of what TOTW said,do you still have the word of TOTW? Well, SOME people will see the point clearly. Some others will see someone outlining their "defense", and see how it miserably fails to make sense in the face of sensible discussion, and how slapping labels on things does not change the substance of them. (Even vpw said that putting the label 'apple-butter' on a jar of pickles does not change the pickles on the inside.) So, the lurkers have a chance to "get it" even without posting, because their positions have already been represented-and shot down.

Same answer can be applied to the following.... A leader gathers all the wows in the state together. He announces a massive witnessing campaign for "the people who need it the most." He sends dozens of wows into housing projects to speak God's Word. By morning, several have emerged with contacts from people who want to hear more or attend twigs. Several have emerged empty-handed. A few were mugged. Two were raped. Is the leader who sent them there to be blamed? According to OM's thinking, not at all. He didn't mug or rape anyone. His goals were laudable-help the wows grow, help people hear, help more pfal classes start. He facilitated the wows to be the best in the wow program. That was his INTENTION-not to have evil befall them. Therefore, despite the fact that his direct instructions REQUIRED them to be placed in a position of unnecessary risk, OM would say he bears NO responsibility for anything that happened to them there. Perhaps the person failed to believe sufficiently. The felons, of course, were to blame-everyone agrees about that. The "heart behind" the instruction means that- although it was poorly-considered and planned, and placed people in unnecessary risk- the people who made those decisions are COMPLETELY BLAMELESS. That's applying OM's standard to this situation. INTENT IS EVERYTHING. RESULTS DON'T MATTER.

And a few months from now, we'll be seeing EXACTLY the same posts ALL OVER AGAIN, as if Dooj never offered him insight. We've seen this one before. Others have pointed it out before. Some posters-MOST posters, arrive here thinking vpw was fantastic and innocent and stuff. As they learn things over time, they discover what they THOUGHT they knew wasn't what they THOUGHT it was. They eliminate some of their black-and-white thinking, and discover "the good old days weren't always good." A few posters arrive and have already made up their minds to hold on to their previous opinion and bludgeon anyone who tries to introduce contrary opinions, information or insights. It's disgraceful and sad, but what can you do about them? Here's what Dooj posted. And what OM will delete from active memory as soon as no one's looking.

Right- I meant it more in the sense of trying to pin down what was counter-culture in the sense of "flower power" and so on, what was counter-culture in the sense of conspiracy theorists and acting on their ideas, and what was just some pervs trying to save a buck, and in what percentages. I don't remember a substantial discussion on this particular subject so far. If we could GET a timeline eventually, that would be grand, but if not, any coherent picture is bound to be handy, and useful to SOMEONE- remember, we STILL get new people here, who never knew what's considered common knowledge on this board.

*blink blink* I'm TRULY impressed. TRULY. That is the correct title. And this is an opportunity for me to tell another song-story. First, here's the song. "Last night I had a crazy dream About a chick in a black bikini Oh, she looked so good She couldn't be real She must be a magic genie But then she disappeared around the corner All I saw were three doors And the top of her bikini I made it through the first door There was a party going on I asked about the chick But what they said was freaky Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom Don't ya jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom Don't you jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom Don't ya jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom-boom-boom I found the bottom half Behind the second door Which took me to Africa I presume This really far out cat Was screaming half crazy "Bomp boom a loo bom a long bam boo" I said, hey man Cut that jive And tell me where the chick went But he looked at me As pleased as could be And said these words But I wonder what he meant Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't ya jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't you jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't ya jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom-boom-boom Aaaah, don't ya jes' love it Mmm-hum, don't ya jes' love it Don't ya love it, don't ya love it Oh yeah, don't ya love it Don't ya jes' love it now I opened the third door and there she was And she whispered so sexy, hello-ooh I tried to do the same And impress her with my style But why I said this I'll never know Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't ya jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't you jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't ya jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom-boom-boom Don't ya know I'll Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't ya jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't you jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't ya jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom-boom-boom Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't ya jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't you jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom (Mmmmm-aaaah) Don't ya jes' love it Chick-a-boom-chick-a-boom-boom-boom" =========== Here's the story, which is why I've wanted to post this for a while. From 1971-1976, Saturday morning US cartoons ran one rather early called "the Groovy Ghoulies." Basically, if you took Rowan and Martin's "Laugh-In", made it into a cartoon, translated the people into classic movie-monsters, added some cartoon shorts here and there, and a music video of them singing and playing, then you'd have the Groovy Ghoulies. The giveaway that it was like Laugh-In was "Weird Window Time", which was a ripoff of the opening windows and one-liners from Laugh-In. It was corny, and dry, and lots of fun to watch growing up. I know I'm not the only one who remembers it who's my age because a few years ago someone else was joking about it, and the way Drac looked when he played the pipe organ. (It was a rather unique look that can be imitated, but is hard to describe. His face looked really enthused, his mouth was agape, and he raised each hand above his head and zoomed it straight down like a dive-bomber as he hit the keys.) Anyway, the songs can stay with you a VERY long time. Songs like "At MID-NIGHT!" and "Dumb Ol' Ghoulie" and ones other people remember better, plus the theme song. Well, one song-with a video like always- was written by Dick Monda, who had written others for the show. But, this time, he didn't let the song just die with the cartoon. So, he made a single of it. "Daddy Dewdrop was a fictitious name of an artist, now known as a One Hit Wonder with the song "Chick-A-Boom", written by Dick Monda. Dick Monda is a songwriter living in California, but originally from Cleveland. While in a group of studio musicians from the Sunflower label, namely, Bill Perry, Tom Hensley, Steve Rillera, and Larry Brown and calling themselves the the "Torrance Cookers" they recorded an album with the one hit wonder "Chick-A-Boom (Don't Ya Jes' Love It)", in 1971. The single reached number 9, but follow-up releases by Daddy Dewdrop failed to chart. Monda worked as a songwriter for the television series "Sabrina And The Groovy Ghoulies", a USA cartoon." ""Daddy Dewdrop" was actually Dick Monda, a songwriter originally from Cleveland, along with some studio musicians calling themselves the "Torrance Cookers." The musicians were Bill Perry, Tom Hensley, Steve Rillera, and Larry Brown. The single and subsequent album were recorded in Torrance, California. Surprisingly, the song "Chick-A-Boom," a wry sexual fantasy put to music, jumped into the national top-10, the biggest hit the label ever had. The Daddy Dewdrop album, which followed the successful single, was a light-hearted, if not lightweight, effort that sealed the fate of Daddy Dewdrop as a one-hit wonder, never to be heard from again. The followup single, "The March of the White Corpuscles"/"Fox Huntin'" [sunflower 111], sank without a trace. Dick Monda provided us with a little more background. He explained in a note to us, "I was born in Cleveland, but I lived in California from the time I was five. The interesting thing about 'Chick-A-Boom' is that I originally did it for the TV cartoon show Sabrina and the Groovie Goolies. You were right about the lack of success of the second single. It wasn't the record I wanted to release, but [MGM honcho] Mike Curb would not give my choice a chance. The song I wanted, entitled 'I Ain't Never Seen a White Man,' was later released as the lead cut on an album I produced on Wolfman Jack. The song was a total departure from 'Chick-A-Boom,' as I never thought the hit could be followed up. No songs of that genre have ever been followed up successfully, so it remains to be seen if 'Who Let the Dogs Out' will break the jinx. Anyway, it still feels good to know that someone still remembers my one hit wonder after all these years."" "Dick Monda has one of the more out-there resumes you’ll find. He produced the music for the great 70’s Saturday morning cartoon Groovy Goolies, and enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame with a charting single actually written for that show, Chick-A-Boom, which he performed under the nom-de-plume Daddy Dewdrop (backed by a group of session dudes named…The Torrance Cookers.) In addition to this, he apparently was in a Troma movie about dismembered strippers (natch) called Body Parts. More recently he worked on a Ringo Starr Christmas album. Like I said, out there." I hadn't remembered the song until I was reading some stuff about the cartoon. But, when I read the title, I found I could sing the chorus on-key, and remember part of the video, with the doors opening and shutting. Of course, the chorus is an "ear worm", and I can't STOP singing the chorus on-key now..... If anyone finds the cartoons, or the entire song somewhere, I might be able to clear it from my brain.... Anyway, I found this to be a FAScinating story, but I suppose none of you did-unless you watched the cartoon. Sorry.

You're thinking of "Spill the Wine", by War, with Eric Burdon (of the Animals.) I got this one right earlier in this thread. Here's what you were thinking.... "I was once out strolling one very hot summer's day When I thought I'd lay myself down to rest in a big field of tall grass I lay there in the sun and felt it caressing my face And I fell asleep and dreamed I dreamed I was in a Hollywood movie And that I was the star of the movie This really blew my mind, the fact that me, an overfed, long-haired leaping gnome should be the star of a Hollywood movie But there I was, I was taken to a place, the hall of the mountain kings I stood high upon a mountain top, naked to the world In front of every kind of girl, there was black ones, round ones, big ones, crazy ones... Out of the middle came a lady She whispered in my ear something crazy She said: Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl [spoken:] I thought to myself what could that mean Am I going crazy or is this just a dream Now, wait a minute I know I'm lying in a field of grass somewhere so it's all in my head and then.. I heard her say one more time: [sung:] Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl [spoken:] I could feel hot flames of fire roaring at my back As she disappeared, but soon she returned In her hand was a bottle of wine, in the other, a glass She poured some of the wine from the bottle into the glass And raised it to her lips And just before she drank it, she said: [sung:] Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl

This isn't a proper turn or anything, and I consider this song unfairly difficult. But I'm curious if anybody can name it without looking it up. So, if nobody minds a song out of any turn..... "Last night I had a crazy dream About a chick in a black bikini. Oh, she looked so good, She couldn't be real- She must be a magic genie. But then she disappeared around the corner. All I saw were three doors And the top of her bikini. I made it through the first door. There was a party going on. I asked about the chick, But what they said was freaky..."

Um, I agree, but I'm really hoping for some discussion on connecting-the-dots. I mean, that's some of the pieces right there. What's the order they fit in?

Personal accounts of the victims, and of eyewitnesses, go a long way in a court of law..... The statute of limitations would be more of an obstacle. BTW, do you really think you're convincing anyone this is really about being fair? Personally, I liked it better when you were candid and said things like "Has nothing to do with the integrity of the Word, but believing something very evil about a person who means something to you and you love." when addressing discussions about the evil, criminal, unChristian actions of vpw. At least there was no pretense you were doing other than trying to protect your mental image of what "the good old days" were like. Dooj, I applaud your goals, but he hasn't found compassion in his heart for the last few years (at the very least) for vpw and lcm's victims, so if I was a betting man, I'd put all my money on "heart of stone" for the foreseeable future.

Skipping the highly subjective label "noble" (else I ask how "noble" it is to do all the things vpw did), let's ask a question that is NOT subjective: Could one successfully sue twi for injuries taken in LEAD, or for requiring hitchhiking, resulting in being hit with a car or raped, or suing on behalf of a participant murdered on their way to/from LEAD? Well, judging from OM, you would think a judge would see the dead body, or the injured or raped party, say "he who consents cannot receive an injury" and close the case immediately. That, of course, would NOT happen. That's because those running a program-or ANY institution- have a responsibility to ensure their institution or program is SAFE. There's a LaZerTag arena I used to frequent. The walls and partitions are all covered with low-density plastic. If you ran fullspeed into either, you'd bounce. They TELL people there's no running, nor climbing on the partitions, nor crawling thru the arena. They have referees monitoring the match, and they are looking specifically for infractions of this. WHY? There's a release on all the applications, saying the person accepts responsibility for their own actions. But if you were playing in the arena, and suddenly tripped over another player, and a running opponent crushed your left hand under his fat boot, you could sue the arena-and win. WHY? Because they're supposed to ensure the safety IN the arena. There's supposed to be nobody to trip OVER. There's supposed to be nobody running at ALL. They're running the session-therefore they accept the LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY to ensure the safety of the participants. You participated willingly, correct. You knew there would be other players, correct. However, if there's danger present, then the organization has MISREPRESENTED themselves and held forth that this is safe and not dangerous. ========== Let's say you join an adults organization- the Princes of Magellan or something. They organize a get-together involving a mountain-climb. You agree. To get there, you are REQUIRED to hitchhike, and you'll be expected to mountain-climb. One person never gets there-he was mugged hitchhiking and he's in the hospital. One person takes a 30-foot fall off the mountain due to insecure supports. Both will sue the organization-and win. The courts of the USA KNOW (they see it as self-evident) that the group in charge of the event is required to MINIMIZE risks-and this one MAXIMIZED some of them. (PLUS required someone to break the law.) And just because you have a deep, unshakeable loyalty for the Princes of Magellan, that does not change their responsibility. Try opining that in a court of law and see how far that goes.Experts in what is acceptable risk and responsibility would disagree, to the tune of lots of money. Oversimplifying. It's never twi's-or vpw's-fault. EVER.

WordWolf: "Walking along the median strip of the highway, in and of itself, is not particularly dangerous. I suppose it can prove to be dangerous if something goes amiss- like a driver jumps the median at the wrong moment. Walking through Central Park late at night, in and of itself, is not particularly dangerous. I suppose it can prove to be dangerous if something goes amiss- like, say, a guy with a knife and a black cape is hanging out in that area at that moment. Getting your evening excercise by wandering up and down the stairs in the projects, in and of itself, is not particularly dangerous. I suppose it can prove to be dangerous if something goes amiss-like a drug-user or mugger finds you. Now, if a program claimed to BENEFIT you insisted that you would be REQUIRED to do each, most sensible people would-at the very least-insist on discussing the possible benefits of engaging what is known to be a dangerous activity (whether or not it dangerous "in and of itself".) Most programs, you may be surprised to know, DON'T require things like those or hitchhiking. Of course, most programs are designed by people who actually know something ABOUT leadership programs, and don't view the participants as DISPOSABLE." George Aar: "Then there's also a thing called "risk/benefit analysis". A thing that was entirely disregarded at WayWorld, near as I can tell. Like - a couple of girls hitchhiking alone through Texas in the winter. I can definitely see a markedly increased risk. But what were the benefits? I mean, other than the fact that it was a way to transport the girls somewhere at no cost to VPW?" This isn't rocket science for most people....

Now, in case people out there need documentation of this, since I haven't typed out the exact wording vpw used when he said he wasn't concerned about the risk of rape to LEAD hitchhikers, I'll use some documentation I have handy. lcm on someone in the corps having an attack, and what vpw thought was the appropriate response to it. "There was an incident of a guy in the Corps who all of a sudden went 'gooney-bird'. He started to babble and not make sense. LCM worked hard with the guy to help him but he was incoherent. Dr, when he met him, confronted him by asking- 'Son, how come you're letting your mind get all scrambled?' The guy answered unintelligibly and Dr told him that it would be best for him just to pack his bags and go home. The guy understood that. He left. LCM spent many hours and many long distance phone calls trying to make sure the guy had gotten home from his bus ride home safely. Not being able to verify his location, he was concerned. Dr told him to move on. There's nothing you can do, he'll show up at home soon enough. A week later the guy did show up at home." INCOHERENT. TOLD TO PACK HIS BAGS AND GO HOME. SHOVED ON A BUS. TOOK A WEEK TO GET HOME BY BUS. God only knows all the wanderings he had, and what the attack even WAS. Just shove him off-grounds then "MOVE ON, THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO." In a word, DISPOSABLE. And all the multisyllabic terms someone retrieved from their thesaurus can't change the HEARTLESS, UNCHRISTIAN attitude the "program" was run with.

lcm didn't START OUT that way, but he learned it eventually from vpw. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...c=8019&st=0 especially check out the bottom of page 4 and top of page 5. lcm proudly documented it!

"This movement was inspired by authors like Friedrich Nietzsche, Goethe, Hermann Hesse (Siddhartha), and Eduard Baltzer, who wrote about how modern man’s material yearnings were taking us away from our balance with nature and leading to spiritual and physical diseases. Thousands of young Germans turned their backs on modern society and sought a return to nature and the pagan spiritual life of their ancestors. "With their emphasis on Free Love, hippies promoted many of the same counterculture beliefs that found early expresssion in the Beat Generation. Both Beats and Hippies advocated for legal and societal acceptance of most forms of consensual sexual expression outside the traditional bounds of marriage and procreation, with the notable exception of sex with children." "In fact, hippie domestic life seemed largely to default to traditional gender roles, with women doing most of the work -- cooking, cleaning, child care, etc. -- while the men engaged in creative, artistic pursuits. " From the "characteristics" section, I found this... "# Free love, including open relationships and most consensual forms of sexual expression, except sex with children. Traditional legal constructs and religious teachings that prohibited non-procreative sex outside the bounds of marriage were widely flouted--premarital sex, extramarital sex, bisexuality and homosexuality. (See also: Sexual revolution). # Communal living # A fondness for nudity" "Some feminists of the late 20th century would interpret the free love ethic of the 1960s and 1970s as a manipulative strategy against a women's ability to say no to sex." "Unrestrained sexuality became a new norm in some of these youth movements, leading certain feminists to critique the 60s/70s "free love" as a way for men to pressure women into sex; women who said "no" could be characterized as prudish and uptight." =========== Uncle Harry slipping in some German nationalism in his dialogue, pg-79 of TW:LiL " VP always likes things done right, done the way they should be done. That's why at the Sunday night service everything is checked right up to snuff. See? Perfect. But that's the way we were brought up years ago. Our German people were not afraid of work. I guess that stays with you." Rhoda W, pg-91, TW:LiL The growth among the young people began after Dr. Wierwille made his trip to California the winter of 1967-68. Then they began to come out here. First Steve and Sandi Heefner, then more and more others. Things really started speeding up after that. The young people were mostly hippies-people with long hair. They really took to the ministry because it made things fit for them." vpw himself, pg-211, about Dr E.E. Higgins... ""She taught me the great respect and love I have for the human body-the tenderness of it. She loved the body, like I love the Word of God. She just stood in awe of how magnificently it was put together. She rid me of my hang-ups, that false stuff, and taught me the beauty of the human body. We used to talk about the human body-where the life was located."" vpw, pg-231, on the "Christian hippies" at the House of Acts... "I went with him. We got there. The women were in the kitchen: Sandi Heefner, Judy Doop and Ted's wife. It was interesting because they were mixing up stuff-a big green salad in a bowl, bread, doing a whole trip. I don't know how many we had around the table- maybe 16 -and then the men came home, Steve Heefner and Jimmy Doop. They had just spent the day witnessing in Haight-Ashbury. We all had supper together. The women cleaned the table and all the men yakked. And finally we got around to the Word. The discussion centered around the Holy Spirit. " ""And I liked especially the tenderness among them. You see, they themselves had previously been on sex and dope, so they didn't find fault with everything all the time. They'd hug and kiss each other and that I liked. They were always affectionate. I saw a lot that I liked there." JD, about something that vpw said back IN 1967-1968.... "As we relaxed and had a second drink, he asked Judy and me to describe what it was like to attend an orgy. We were taken back by the question and embarassed by it, because even though it was part of our testimony in our deliverance from sin to God's righteousness, no one had ever asked us to describe what it was like to go to an orgy. We found his curiousity shocking. But we gave him a brief description which is really all we could give him since our encounter with an orgy had been so brief. We had attended one orgy sponsored by the San Francisco Sexual Freedom League, but we were so overwhelmed by the spectacle that we had left after twenty minutes. 'You know that's all available," V.P. said. 'God put it in I Corinthians 7:1 which He said "It is good for a man not to touch a woman." If it wasn't available to have sex outside the marriage God would have said "best" instead of "good". I could not believe what I was hearing. I responded with 'I just thank God that He pulled our souls out of that pit of debauchery.' When Judy and I went to bed, I said to her, 'I don't believe what he said tonight, and I'm going to forget it. I must have misunderstood him.' " Someone's summary of JD using 20/20 hindsight to describe vpw... "Weirwille sought things to validate his position. He did NOT research the word and change his opinion to IT. I becamed pretty good friends with Jim D*0p. He told me that he, Jim, had a ministry where they were sexually loose and an anything goes kinda group out in California. Weirwille flew out there, telling folks it was to talk with Jim about the Bible and witness or something to him. Jim told me Weirwille flew out there to LEARN from Jimmy about the free sex thinking. Weirwille said he always believed sex should be free and allowed with as many as you feel you want to be with -- but could NEVER prove it from the Bible. He was there to see if Jimmy could prove it was okay via scripture. D0*p never really could and was more of a hippie minister than a sexual pervert looking for Biblical validation. Weirwille had these concepts, notions, urges, illnesses and tried to find a way to SELL them to us. He was not about to CHANGE his thinking according to scripture. He was not a researcher. He was similar to a lot of cult leaders. He had an idea and looked for people who would buy into it. Like Charlie Manson." One of the corps grads on vpw teaching the corps when the rest of us weren't looking.... "He also told a small group at Emporia one night to teach their children about their bodies, "you can brush their nipple with your hand and show them how it hardens. You can show them not to be ashamed of their body reactions" Then he shared about the African Tribe where the Father broke the hymen of the daughters to get them experienced in sex to prepare them for marriage -- he thought it to be beautiful. VPW had already let me see his dark side. Sitting there I thought OH MY GOD, this is subtle but he is teaching this group that it is beautiful to teach your daughters how to have sex, it is just not accepted in our culture! He was standing behind his sex problems and setting us up to have sex with our godly "family" as well as the earthly one."

But, vpw didn't mind that your lives were risked, nor did he care when it was brought to his attention..... The operative term being "didn't care"

*clears throat* Walking along the median strip of the highway, in and of itself, is not particularly dangerous.I suppose it can prove to be dangerous if something goes amiss- like a driver jumps the median at the wrong moment. Walking through Central Park late at night, in and of itself, is not particularly dangerous. I suppose it can prove to be dangerous if something goes amiss- like, say, a guy with a knife and a black cape is hanging out in that area at that moment. Getting your evening excercise by wandering up and down the stairs in the projects, in and of itself, is not particularly dangerous. I suppose it can prove to be dangerous if something goes amiss-like a drug-user or mugger finds you. Now, if a program claimed to BENEFIT you insisted that you would be REQUIRED to do each, most sensible people would-at the very least-insist on discussing the possible benefits of engaging what is known to be a dangerous activity (whether or not it dangerous "in and of itself".) Most programs, you may be surprised to know, DON'T require things like those or hitchhiking. Of course, most programs are designed by people who actually know something ABOUT leadership programs, and don't view the participants as DISPOSABLE. It was "designed" by people who didn't particularly care about-nor understand- the consequences to the people who had to try and live through them. It was CLAIMED to challenge and expand one's abilities. Much of it was "retake all the classes", or "go and run some pfal classes on the field" or "clean up the grounds", with some breaks for "go hitchhike over there" and some other things.

STILL works, as far as some people see it....

Now then, the conspiracy theories vpw got from the Liberty Lobby and from the John Birch Society. Here's from the page on the LL, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Lobby "While Liberty Lobby was founded as a conservative political organization, Willis Carto was known to hold strongly anti-Semitic views, and to be a devotee of the writings of Francis Parker Yockey, who was one of a handful of esoteric post-WWII writers who revered Adolf Hitler. Yockey, writing under the pseudonym of Ulick Varange, wrote a book entitled Imperium, which Willis Carto adopted as his own guiding ideology. Many critics, including disgruntled former Carto associates as well as the Anti-Defamation League, have noted that Willis Carto, more than anybody else, was responsible for keeping organized anti-Semitism alive as a viable political movement during the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, when it was otherwise completely discredited." "Liberty Lobby attempted to promote a public image of being a conservative anti-Communist group, along the lines of the John Birch Society, but while the John Birch Society rejected white supremacy and anti-Semitism, Liberty Lobby promoted them. Francis Parker Yockey's Imperium was republished by Willis Carto's Noontide Press, which also published a number of other books and pamphlets promoting a racialist and white supremacist world view, and Liberty Lobby in turn sold and promoted these books." "In 1975, Liberty Lobby began publishing a weekly newspaper called The Spotlight, which ran news and opinion articles with a very populist and anti-establishment slant on a variety of subjects, but gave little indication of being extreme-right or neo-Nazi. However, The Spotlight, critics charged, was intended as a subtle recruiting tool for the extreme right, using populist-sounding articles to attract people from all points on the political spectrum including liberals, moderates, and conservatives, and special-interest articles to attract people interested in such subjects as alternative medicine, while the newspaper subtly incorporated anti-Semitic and white racialist undertones in its articles, and carried advertisements in the classified section for openly neo-Nazi groups and books. The Spotlight for a while became the most widely-read periodical on the right in the United States, with circulation peaking around 200,000 in the early 1980s. While circulation experienced a steady drop after that, it continued to be published until Liberty Lobby's demise in 2001." And here's the John Birch Society, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society ... "The JBS claims that collectivist conspiracies throughout the world have significantly shaped history, and it seeks to expose and eliminate their claimed control in government in the modern era. This degree of conspiracism has isolated the Society from many other conservative groups." " "According to Welch," writes Political Research Associates in its analysis of the Birchers, "both the US and Soviet governments are controlled by the same furtive conspiratorial cabal of internationalists, greedy bankers, and corrupt politicians. If left unexposed, the traitors inside the US government would betray the country's sovereignty to the United Nations for a collectivist New World Order managed by a 'one-world socialist government.' The Birch Society incorporated many themes from pre-WWII rightist groups opposed to the New Deal, and had its base in the business nationalist sector…" Welch saw "collectivism" as the main threat to western civilization, and liberals as "secret communist traitors" who provide the cover for the gradual process of collectivism, with the ultimate goal of replacing the nations of western civilization with one-world socialist government. "There are many stages of welfarism, socialism, and collectivism in general," he wrote, "but communism is the ultimate state of them all, and they all lead inevitably in that direction." " "Much of the Society's early conspiracism, according to Political Research Associates, "reflects an ultraconservative business nationalist critique of business internationalists networked through groups such as the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR is viewed through a conspiracist lens as puppets of the Rockefeller family in a 1952 book by Joe McCarthy fan Emanuel M. Josephson, Rockefeller, 'Internationalist': The Man Who Misrules the World. In 1962 Dan Smoot's The Invisible Government added several other policy groups to the list of conspirators, including the Committee for Economic Development, the Advertising Council, the Atlantic Council (formerly the Atlantic Union Committee), the Business Advisory Council, and the Trilateral Commission. Smoot had worked at FBI headquarters in Washington, DC before leaving to establish an anticommunist newsletter, the Dan Smoot Report. The shift from countersubversion on behalf of the FBI to countersubversion in the private sector was an easy one. The basic thesis was the same. In Smoot's concluding chapter, he wrote, 'Somewhere at the top of the pyramid in the invisible government are a few sinister people who know exactly what they are doing: They want America to become part of a worldwide socialist dictatorship, under the control of the Kremlin.'" Birchers elaborated on an earlier Illuminati/Freemason conspiracy theory, imagining "an unbroken ideologically driven conspiracy linking the Illuminati, the French Revolution, the rise of Marxism and Communism, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the United Nations". Unlike most advocates of the Illuminati-Freemason conspiracy theory, however, the Birch Society strenuously denies harboring any anti-Semitic ideation, and indeed claims many Jews among its membership. At one point a key leader in the JBS, Revilo P. Oliver, resigend after a dispute over his veering off into antisemitic conspiracy theories in public. " " In October 1964, the Idaho Statesman newspaper expressed concern about what it called an "ominous" increase in JBS-led "ultra-right" radio and television broadcasts, which it said then numbered 7,000 weekly and cost an estimated $10 million annually. "By virtue of saturation tactics used, radical, reactionary propaganda is producing an impact even on large numbers of people who, themselves, are in no sense extremists or sympathetic to extremist views," declared a Statesman editorial. "When day after day they hear distortions of fact and sinister charges against persons or groups, often emanating from organizations with conspicuously respectable sounding names, it is no wonder that the result is: Confusion on some important public issues; stimulation of latent prejudices; creation of suspicion, fear and mistrust in relation not only to their representatives in government, but even in relation to their neighbors.” "

Ok, for those of us who were not flower children, and those of us who could use a refresher, 1967-1968 seems to have been a big year for the hippie movement- at least for the public news reports of them. It's also when vpw acted on information. I pulled this from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie "Time and history revisionists have obscured the true origins and influence of the hippies, whose roots stretch back 100 years to Europe. Around the turn of the century (1890s), there was an active movement in Europe to return to the natural life away from the polluted, crowded cities. This movement was inspired by authors like Friedrich Nietzsche, Goethe, Hermann Hesse (Siddhartha), and Eduard Baltzer, who wrote about how modern man’s material yearnings were taking us away from our balance with nature and leading to spiritual and physical diseases. Thousands of young Germans turned their backs on modern society and sought a return to nature and the pagan spiritual life of their ancestors. They embraced a variety of radical lifestyles including vegetarianism, fasting, raw food diets, nudism, organic farming, communal living, sun and nature worship, etc. These ideas were introduced into the US over several decades as one by one these Germans settled in various places around the country," "With their emphasis on Free Love, hippies promoted many of the same counterculture beliefs that found early expresssion in the Beat Generation. Both Beats and Hippies advocated for legal and societal acceptance of most forms of consensual sexual expression outside the traditional bounds of marriage and procreation, with the notable exception of sex with children." "In fact, hippie domestic life seemed largely to default to traditional gender roles, with women doing most of the work -- cooking, cleaning, child care, etc. -- while the men engaged in creative, artistic pursuits. Images of women in hippie art abound, generally as innocents, goddesses or muses. Most hippie entrepreneurs, philosophers, commune founders and leaders, writers and artists were men." "At their inception, the back to the land movement, cooperative business enterprises, alternative energy, free press movement, and organic farming were all politically motivated hippie enterprises." "Hippies tended to travel light and were able to pick up and go to wherever the action was at any given time, whether that was a "love-in" on Mount Tamalpais near San Francisco, a demonstration against the Vietnam War in Berkeley, one of Ken Kesey's "Acid Tests" or just because the "vibe" wasn't right and a change of scene was desired. Pre-planning was eschewed and most were happy to put a few clothes in a backpack, stick out their thumbs and hitchhike to just about anywhere. Hippies seldom worried about whether or not they had money, hotel reservations or any of the standard accoutrements of travel. Because most hippie households welcomed overnight guests on an impromptu basis, the reciprocal nature of the lifestyle permitted enormous freedom of movement. People generally co-operated to meet each other's needs in ways that became less common after 1971. This way of life is still seen today among some Rainbow Family participants." From the "characteristics" section, I found this... "# Free love, including open relationships and most consensual forms of sexual expression, except sex with children. Traditional legal constructs and religious teachings that prohibited non-procreative sex outside the bounds of marriage were widely flouted--premarital sex, extramarital sex, bisexuality and homosexuality. (See also: Sexual revolution). # Communal living # A fondness for nudity" Now then, on their "free love" page, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_love ), I found this.... "While the phrase "free love" is often associated with promiscuity in the popular imagination, especially in reference to the counterculture of the 1960s and 1970s, historically the free love movement has not advocated multiple sexual partners. Rather, it has argued that love relations which are freely entered into should not be regulated by law. Thus, free love practice may include long-term monogamous relationships or even celibacy, but would not include institutional forms of polygamy such as a king and his concubines." Interesting how vpw skipped this stage. Perhaps he was just a victim of his times... Then again, "The history of free love is entwined with the history of feminism." "Some feminists of the late 20th century would interpret the free love ethic of the 1960s and 1970s as a manipulative strategy against a women's ability to say no to sex." "Free love became a prominent phrase used by and about the new social movements and counterculture of the 1960s and 1970s, typified by the Summer of Love in 1967 and the slogan "make love not war". Unrestrained sexuality became a new norm in some of these youth movements, leading certain feminists to critique the 60s/70s "free love" as a way for men to pressure women into sex; women who said "no" could be characterized as prudish and uptight."