Ok, I am not trying to pick your words apart Estimated Prophet....I don`t want you to feel that I am attacking you. But gosh, something you said has just leaped right off the page at me....
*They saw lots of sheep with no shepherd and wanted to help*....could this is the problem?.....
Wasn`t Jesus supposed to be the shepherd? Maybe these guys are trying to do a job (no matter how well intentioned they are) that simply has never been theirs?
There is always going to be problems when someone tries to replace the shepherd of the flock, in a way they really are not allowing Jesus to do his job.
They are ill equipped, and untrained, and therefor the wolves come time and again to ravage the flock. As they are not really shepherds, they are unable to recognise the cleverly disguised predator...and then must stand by completely incapacitated, helpless to prevent the slaughter.
They can only numbly wait untill the wolves have sated their appetites, depleted the flock, then trudge through the carnage of the destroyed and gather the remaining flock, calling them unto them, promising a safety that they are never able to really provide. The rest of the flock, are thankfull that they were not one of the slaughtered, not knowing the real shepherd, confidently resume following the psuedo shepherd.
Just food for thought.
Maybe these guys need to return the sheep to the real shepherd and resume lives as one of the flock...shrug
I have to wonder if J.L. really gets it either, because I gather from his letter that he is still very much a *if you don`t like what I say you are the one screwed up* type of guy.
The whole *leader* concept, the idea, their responsibilities, as we were taught ......I believe is misunderstood.
The true *leaders* I have met since leaving never claim to be *leaders* they just serve. They leave the *leading* to the true shepherd and focus on their genuine responsibility as ministers...serving/ministering to Jesus` flock.
It is hard to be humble when you have the correct and well researched answer for every question ever.
they do, spent their entire lifes making sure they have the fix it answer for all.
But you know what? Jesus christ asks us not to carry a "script" in life. He ebbs and flows with our mind our thoughts our loves and our hates.. He is HUMAN!!! and the bible says not everything is written that happened, even in the short life of Jesus.
so how can these men think they know all the answers or will figure out one for sure? ego and that is what the people want they want answers to the questions life brings like why?
If a man or a organization was able to provide all the answers even via the bible why would we be asked to seek the LORD?
but it is nice to be a know it all( hell yeah I enjoy it myself) and idiots like to put the responsibility of the relationship Jesus wants on someone eles's say so. no pesky searching as the bible says we are to do.
see they do have some truth , and it saves work for everyone who will trust their stuff, so put this verse in here and that one in there and viola answer for ya!!!
again Jesus is left out there where the desk work just isnt.
I think Jesus Christ is MUCH MUCH BIGGER than a man today but the coolest thing is He gets man, he gets how the temptation is to be like God.
but he is successful in fighting off the temptation and the bible says He is the only one capable of always obeying the Father.
when people seek men to be as God many will begin to play the role to "serve" them.
I think this began with the whole Christ in you concept and men blew it way to large ,they got so close to understanding Christ and the role He plays , they began to forget He was the ONLY ONE without error or sin.
and sin doesnt matter , because we know him! Jesus is not a people pleasing lover. it does matter we ALL matter.
in this group the world got small, to small and easy to manipulate. Until christ in His majesty shows us all who is indeed KING of KING on a throne given by God not men.
You know Estimated, I can see a real disconnect going on in your words and from this your thinking on this matter. Has anyone from Grease Spot Cafe ever sued a brother or a sister in the name of Christian ministry? Has anyone here seen spiders coming out of others noses or demons infested in others and then used this as a smear tactic for political/religious gain? And tell us how your own words, essentially telling others to pay special attention to all the demons supposedly causing all the problems in the world compare with Jesus' words in the gospels, when he said to rejoice not that we have power over demons, but to rejoice that our names are written in heaven? You know I have heard to much of what you are bringing to the table here with your in essence, glorificiation of demons to let your comments slip idily under the table. We saw this with TWI and now we are seeing this with some of your posts here. This may sound blunt, but you really sound like a double minded man. You are not doing yourself or others any favors with your thinking and words. If you want to truly be an example of Christ and be kind, tender hearted, forgiving one another as Christ forgave you as you profess at the beginning of your post above then please do so. But don't get side tracked any longer on this subtle form of demon worship like we had in TWI that your last post is clearly professing. Am I making myself clear on this? Or can you not see that most of your above post does not glorify Jesus Christ or speak edification, but instead tells others to mostly look out and watch out for demons which it sounds like you see behind every bush and under every table. Your words and fixation is first of all harmful to yourself, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Secondarily it makes a mockery of what it is to be a minister of the Lord Jesus while spreading the gospel.
And another thing Estimated. We all have to take responsibility for our words and actions. This is so that we can grow up into him who is Christ Jesus. Let's pray that the CES leaders get a realization of what their words and actions have caused and how they have not always educated or shown Christ's love to others. In fact, that they have sometimes been destructive to others faith. If we are in grave error and don't really know about it. How are we going to grow up into Him, who is the head of the body, the Lord Jesus Christ?
[WordWolf responds in brackets and boldface again.]
Consider This.
"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and slander
be put away from you
along with all malice
And be kind to one another, tender-hearted,
forgiving each other,
just as God in Christ has forgiven you."
Ephesians 6:32,33 NASB
[Let's be nice to each other. I can agree with this. Of course, this is not to the
exclusion of the verses counselling vigilance and the need to restore a brother
overtaken in a fault. Niceness sometimes means tough love or honesty, or
both.]
I don't expect to make any more posts, so let me leave you with this.
Then I'll be on my way.
[Leaving quickly after making a public statement?
That's not standard internet procedure- but it is standard procedure
for those whose opinions MUST be embraced wildly.
That's not a good sign...]
We are in a spiritual battle and we have an enemy who is playing for keeps,
he is lawless, he is cruel, and he is deceiving as all hell.
Our enemy is mot John Lynn
It is not Mark Graeser.
It is not Victor Paul Wierwille.
It is not the Scape Goat Du Jour
Our enemy is the spiritual wickedness in high places.
[i agree.
However, this gives nobody a free pass to hurt the brethren through harmful actions,
harmful doctrines, incompetence, or malfeasance.
And what did "the Scape Goat Du Jour" have to do with this?
Was that a suggestion that all of the men above were blameless
for their actions and inactions?]
My intention is to speak words of truth and light that are mighty
to the pulling down of strongholds.
[so you mean well. I can appreciate that. I still say that must be matched
to DOING well.]
[WordWolf snipped out a lecture on devils and demons,
and how accusations are-apparently- their fault.]
It may be well and good to recognize hurtful actions and words,
and criticise the sins of omission and commission.
It's a righteous thing to reprove, rebuke, and exhort
with all Longsuffering
[Now, I can again say I agree with you here.]
but do it in the Wisdom from Above
and look deeper to see what manner of spirit is underlieing the deeds.
is it holy or unholy?
[This is technically a good idea. However, placing it after the lecture
suggesting all exposing of evil-like we've done here- is actually demonic
and NEVER "in the Wisdom from Above",
this is sending an inconsistent message.
Is this meant to "cover all the bases" while still getting out the message
that exposing evil deeds is itself evil?]
and you must look to your Lord Jesus in order to see the spiritual reality.
and you must follow his lead
to Stand Therefore, in the Power of His Might.
[Technically, I agree with this. However, its position HERE following the
diatribe, makes it peculiar, and anomalous, and may even negate its
point.]
You can mark my words
or you can mock them.
[so,
we can agree with you, or we can be WRONG and act in EVIL.
Cute. Looks like we have another "False Dilemma."
Heads I win, tails you lose. "Have you stopped beating your wife-yes or no?"
Healthy disagreement is labelled "wrong" from the get-go.
That's NOT the way to treat your brethren in Christ.
You don't see me doing that with YOU, are you?
I'm evaluating everything, not just what I like, or just what I dislike.]
You can call them flowery and beautiful and imply there is no substance,
that I am a waybrained parrot, a weak-willed host to mind controling cult leaders.
That doesn't make them any less true.
[Now we see the famous "Poisoning the Well."
I commented previously that one statement of his was
"flowery and beautiful", and that it seemed to be used to excuse
the harmful actions of others.
Notice how my POINT was never addressed.
Some people may suspect that this is because I was correct, and it's
impossible to try to successfuly deny what's plainly true.
That is, that he WAS trying to excuse HARMFUL deeds by saying
that SOME good deeds cancel them out, so that some harming is
FINE if you're making enough good deeds in EXCHANGE.
Now, also notice that NOBODY said-nor suggested- that his words
had NO SUBSTANCE. That's a strawman he's decided to introduce
all his own.
Further, the "waybrained parrot" thing comes out of nowhere also.
This is not treating the words of his brethren honestly.
This is not the proper way to treat the UNBELIEVER, let alone family.
Would Jesus recommend doing this?
Is this "fellowshipping in Light"?
Finally, this "weak-willed host to mind-controlling cult leaders" thing.
Not only was THIS charge also invented by the speaker to make
his dissenters sound like they're labelling him when it's actually
HIM doing the labelling,
it's being done in a fashion one might consider SYSTEMATIC,
as if he's been taught to do so.
In other words, we never CLAIMED he was being mind-controlled,
but since he's brought the subject up,
he's sure SOUNDING like he might be.
Well, HE was the one that was making the comparison...
All the nasty labels so far are the ones HE invented and claimed
WE put on him.
That's not "lovingkindness."
That's not the love of God.
That's not a good commercial, if you wanted to convince me your
church is a proper, godly one.]
I forgive you.
you really don't know what you're saying.
[someone doesn't know what they're saying, I suspect.
What's next, charges we're typing under automatic writing
influences of demons?]
I probablly remind you of someone else.
I am not offended.
I just wonder why.
[Then you might try READING the opposing viewpoint,
rather than just cherry-picking it for something to attack.]
I wonder why someone has a problem with a vision to provide Christian Education across the globe.
False Dilemma.
Nobody said the GOAL was bad.
We said the EXECUTION needed an overhaul.
But hey, what's another Strawman, more or less?]
I wonder why the enmemy has found a way to get in and start to break up all the work towards accomplishing that vision.
["You may agree with me or you can be under demonic influence!"
Pretty.
Actually, if you want to know how the enemy found a way in to damage the effectiveness
of CES, you'll need to look IN CES, and consider how pride comes before
destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
I'll give you that one for free.]
I wonder what I could or should have done differently
that might have nade a godly difference.
[Well, you might have addressed the problems internally in CES.
While here, you might have focused more on the godly love,
and less on the "attack anything that disagrees with CES" front.
That's another one for free.
Or were those meant as supposedly unanswerable questions?]
I am grieved
and come to my Savior
to dwell in the fellowship of Light with Him
in the arms of my Father, God.,
and am cleansed again from all unrighteousness.
Come on In
The door is open
to anyone who wants to step out of the darkness
and into the Light and Love of Christ
and when I say
God Bless You
I Love You
You Are the Best
it's a message from the Christ in Me
to the Christ in You
It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance
and nothing shall separate us from His Love
Peace in Christ Jesus
and Glory be to The Father in Heaven
forever and ever
[summary:
"All of you who disagree with me are under demonic influence, and are aiding
and abetting the goals of the devils in the world.
You speak out of ignorance, and lack substance.
God bless you, I love you so much."
Is this supposed to be a joke?
Was that pious closing meant to somehow cover for the cheapshots,
fallacies, and insults above?
Jesus didn't operate that way when he was on this Earth...
and he never advocated that WE do that, either.]
You know Estimated, I can see a real disconnect going on in your words and from this your thinking on this matter. Has anyone from Grease Spot Cafe ever sued a brother or a sister in the name of Christian ministry? Has anyone here seen spiders coming out of others noses or demons infested in others and then used this as a smear tactic for political/religious gain? And tell us how your own words, essentially telling others to pay special attention to all the demons supposedly causing all the problems in the world compare with Jesus' words in the gospels, when he said to rejoice not that we have power over demons, but to rejoice that our names are written in heaven? You know I have heard to much of what you are bringing to the table here with your in essence, glorificiation of demons to let your comments slip idily under the table. We saw this with TWI and now we are seeing this with some of your posts here. This may sound blunt, but you really sound like a double minded man. You are not doing yourself or others any favors with your thinking and words. If you want to truly be an example of Christ and be kind, tender hearted, forgiving one another as Christ forgave you as you profess at the beginning of your post above then please do so. But don't get side tracked any longer on this subtle form of demon worship like we had in TWI that your last post is clearly professing. Am I making myself clear on this? Or can you not see that most of your above post does not glorify Jesus Christ or speak edification, but instead tells others to mostly look out and watch out for demons which it sounds like you see behind every bush and under every table. Your words and fixation is first of all harmful to yourself, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Secondarily it makes a mockery of what it is to be a minister of the Lord Jesus while spreading the gospel.
And another thing Estimated. We all have to take responsibility for our words and actions. This is so that we can grow up into him who is Christ Jesus. Let's pray that the CES leaders get a realization of what their words and actions have caused and how they have not always educated or shown Christ's love to others. In fact, that they have sometimes been destructive to others faith. If we are in grave error and don't really know about it. How are we going to grow up into Him, who is the head of the body, the Lord Jesus Christ?
The run on junk and verbage in that letter was well disected by you.
All the blame was taken away from MG and the others , aquitted? The devil made me do it! All the people who were involved with the pp plunger, researching, teaching, practicing, performing etc are as equaly guilty as any one.
So estimated want to just forgive abd forget. I put a post on one of the threads about judgement where were are told to make right judgements. At least that's what I get from the word. But it is interesting how people still work at twisting responsiblity.
We have sites for sex ofenders that live in our area, so we can be aware. The crap that has gone on with ces/stf is no different and gs does a lot of this same thing. Minus those that have posted #$%@ in much anger etc.
A wakeup call is a good thing. Disfunction brought to light is a good thing. If someone robs or murders or rapes they are put in jail for thier crimes. I don't see much differance with the ces stuff. The differance is the court of law. It is us the body of those that have been stricken by the crimes that are witnessing and speaking in testamony. Since the courts don't handle cases like this we the body of saints get to do it.
Great points, Mark, word wolf and Rich. What a darned shame that estimated prophet is unwilling and unable to read them
He has to post and then flee, because
A) Our words are not worth reading or our thoughts worth considering...ie we are of no value.
B) They are frightened.
In order to live in their world, one must rightiously pronounce judgement and then run, all the while patting themselves on the back for telling those *evil* ones off, mentally checking off their good deed done for God this day.
You know, I saw this once in a Frito Lay factory I worked in.
They would do horrible, sometimes illegal things to people, but call it by nice sounding names untill a persons usefullness was exhausted.
If they wanted you to rat out your fellow employee, it was called giving *feed back* If they required that you would work beyond what was legally allowed, they changed the job description that you clocked in under. When your body finally broke down because of the unending stress of heavy lifting, and needed hip replacement and back surgery...they looked you right in the eye and said...*you cannot PROVE that this happened on Frito Lay time* and you were out the door because your usefullness was exhausted.
That is what happens with this twi/off shoot stuff....use scriptures and misapplied teachings to do as you darned well pleas e rather than getting honest with God and making the difficult but necessary changes when we have gone off track...sigh
When it all comes crumbling down, blame satan, blame the person wronged, but deflect it from yourself at all cost.
People like EP/Frito Lay, seem to want everybody to just stfu and forgive, not hold people accountable, so that things can go right back to the way they always have been.
Oh there will be a few little cosmetic changes, but nothing to address the deeper abuse issues.
Damned right they want the questions stopped, so the verses are trotted out to try to shame their critics into silence........sure they want us to love/ie ignore the perpetrators actions so that they won`t have to look deeper into their own souls and address where they are wrong.
It is the same old thing as was with twi....cover your ars with scriptures and you won`t have to go through the arduos process of rebuilding your faulty, cracked and crumbling foundation.
Oh and places like Frito Lay and off shoots will continue because there seems to always be a fresh supply of people willing to put up with the abuse and pretend that the people who have been thrown away were somehow to blame.
When it all goes well they do boast at the ministry they built!!
when it goes to crap suddenly it is about satan , the idea of the spirit causing trouble is not a new concept, just as far as God gets the glory for all they have done that they puff up about and collect money for , maybe in the same amount satan should get the blame for the sin they perform.
seems about right. This ministry claims God needs people(them) to perform their majestic takss and of course they are the ONES! WEll I submit satan as a spirit also needs people to perform his taks and they are the front line in that areana as well.
funny how it couldnt work that well seems like the theory of how important one is depends on how they operate as humans only works "sometimes" when it is good for them.
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Edi
John, I just want to know if you ever apologized to Elizabeth? If not please go do it. She deserves one.
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rascal
Ok, I am not trying to pick your words apart Estimated Prophet....I don`t want you to feel that I am attacking you. But gosh, something you said has just leaped right off the page at me....
*They saw lots of sheep with no shepherd and wanted to help*....could this is the problem?.....
Wasn`t Jesus supposed to be the shepherd? Maybe these guys are trying to do a job (no matter how well intentioned they are) that simply has never been theirs?
There is always going to be problems when someone tries to replace the shepherd of the flock, in a way they really are not allowing Jesus to do his job.
They are ill equipped, and untrained, and therefor the wolves come time and again to ravage the flock. As they are not really shepherds, they are unable to recognise the cleverly disguised predator...and then must stand by completely incapacitated, helpless to prevent the slaughter.
They can only numbly wait untill the wolves have sated their appetites, depleted the flock, then trudge through the carnage of the destroyed and gather the remaining flock, calling them unto them, promising a safety that they are never able to really provide. The rest of the flock, are thankfull that they were not one of the slaughtered, not knowing the real shepherd, confidently resume following the psuedo shepherd.
Just food for thought.
Maybe these guys need to return the sheep to the real shepherd and resume lives as one of the flock...shrug
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sprawled out
what about the rest of us?
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Estimated Prophet
Good Morning All
( Sprawled Out...maybe I'll see you at the Jubilee)
(( a Grateful Dead line in case any one's wondering))
Rascal, that's a very good point about who exactly is the Shepherd.
Back in the day
I actually bought into the notion that John was the big bad wolf.
We marked and avoided him and anyone who got near him,
(aside from the spys we sent out to take names)
all in the name of God.
John was actually om a mission to wake people
up so we'd see the light and quit acting like jerks.
not much unlike some of the posters here :)
his "Everything You Wanted to know About Fear
but Were Afraid to Ask"
is a classic teaching.
every PFAL Grad should listen to that.
likewise "Jeus Christ and Me"
When I finally did attend a meeting with him
he was very intent on proving that Jesus is not at all
absent from the body.
Thay made a huge difference for me.
Then I was marked and avoided too.
Crazy
Now, some 15 years later,
I think after getting so beaten down with doing damage control
from letting over opinionated people like me have at it,
that they fell right into the trap of trying to control the environment
and keep it from getting too out of line.
what a strange twist of fate
( and please forgive me if you consider the word 'fate' to be idolatrous')
Good Point Rascal.
Jesus Christ does know his sheep and how to keep them in line.
Do we really trust him to do that,
or must we insist on doing it our own way instead ?
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rascal
Thanks for considering my thoughts E.P.
I have to wonder if J.L. really gets it either, because I gather from his letter that he is still very much a *if you don`t like what I say you are the one screwed up* type of guy.
The whole *leader* concept, the idea, their responsibilities, as we were taught ......I believe is misunderstood.
The true *leaders* I have met since leaving never claim to be *leaders* they just serve. They leave the *leading* to the true shepherd and focus on their genuine responsibility as ministers...serving/ministering to Jesus` flock.
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therebutforgrace
Rascal......Awesome....twice!
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pond
yeah.
It is hard to be humble when you have the correct and well researched answer for every question ever.
they do, spent their entire lifes making sure they have the fix it answer for all.
But you know what? Jesus christ asks us not to carry a "script" in life. He ebbs and flows with our mind our thoughts our loves and our hates.. He is HUMAN!!! and the bible says not everything is written that happened, even in the short life of Jesus.
so how can these men think they know all the answers or will figure out one for sure? ego and that is what the people want they want answers to the questions life brings like why?
If a man or a organization was able to provide all the answers even via the bible why would we be asked to seek the LORD?
but it is nice to be a know it all( hell yeah I enjoy it myself) and idiots like to put the responsibility of the relationship Jesus wants on someone eles's say so. no pesky searching as the bible says we are to do.
see they do have some truth , and it saves work for everyone who will trust their stuff, so put this verse in here and that one in there and viola answer for ya!!!
again Jesus is left out there where the desk work just isnt.
I think Jesus Christ is MUCH MUCH BIGGER than a man today but the coolest thing is He gets man, he gets how the temptation is to be like God.
but he is successful in fighting off the temptation and the bible says He is the only one capable of always obeying the Father.
when people seek men to be as God many will begin to play the role to "serve" them.
I think this began with the whole Christ in you concept and men blew it way to large ,they got so close to understanding Christ and the role He plays , they began to forget He was the ONLY ONE without error or sin.
and sin doesnt matter , because we know him! Jesus is not a people pleasing lover. it does matter we ALL matter.
in this group the world got small, to small and easy to manipulate. Until christ in His majesty shows us all who is indeed KING of KING on a throne given by God not men.
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excathedra
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Estimated Prophet
He teaces the Word without charge, Excathedra,
but it's $100.00 for a chiropractic treatment.
He is a superb teacher of the Word.
Check out www.FORHISGLORY.ORG
if you're interested in seeing the Truth through Hebrew Eyes.
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Estimated Prophet
Consider This.
"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and slander
be put away from you
along with all malice
And be kind to one another, tender-hearted,
forgiving each other,
just as God in Christ has forgiven you."
Ephesians 6:32,33 NASB
I don't expect to make any more posts, so let me leave you with this.
Then I'll be on my way.
We are in a spiritual battle and we have an enemy who is playing for keeps,
he is lawless, he is cruel, and he is deceiving as all hell.
Our enemy is mot John Lynn
It is not Mark Graeser.
It is not Victor Paul Wierwille.
It is not the Scape Goat Du Jour
Our enemy is the spiritual wickedness in high places.
My intention is to speak words of truth and light that are mighty
to the pulling down of strongholds.
You can believe what you want,
but there is a demon of wrath and a demon of anger
and of slander and of malice.
There are seducing spirits
and deceiving spirits and accusing spirits
that are bent on the destruction
of you and me
and everything dear to the Almighty God.
If you listen to them long enough you will start to believe them.
When you start to believe them they will settle into your heart.
Then you'll start to smell and speak just like them.
Then we've got some real problems.
Deliverance is readily available, thank God.
To the degree that we believe and obey the truth is the degree to which the enemy will flee.
To that degree we will put off the works of darkness and put on the arnour of Light.
in his book, The Three Battlegrounds
Francis Frangipane warns how Lucifer was in the heavens when he fell
Adam was in Paradise when he fell.
Take heed lest you fall too.
Our stand begins with the name of Jesus Christ on our lips,
but to withstand the wiles of the wicked one
we must have
His divine nature established in our hearts.
If we give place in our hearts to the evil intents of the wicked one,
then love will grow cold and hearts will grow hard,
and there will be more traumatized lives and shattered dreams.
It may be well and good to recognize hurtful actions and words,
and criticise the sins of omission and commission.
It's a righteous thing to reprove, rebuke, and exhort
with all Longsuffering
but do it in the Wisdom from Above
and look deeper to see what manner of spirit is underlieing the deeds.
is it holy or unholy?
and you must look to your Lord Jesus in order to see the spiritual reality.
and you must follow his lead
to Stand Therefore, in the Power of His Might.
You can mark my words
or you can mock them.
You can call them flowery and beautiful and imply there is no substance,
that I am a waybrained parrot, a weak-willed host to mind controling cult leaders.
That doesn't make them any less true.
I forgive you.
you really don't know what you're saying.
I probablly remind you of someone else.
I am not offended.
I just wonder why.
I wonder why someone has a problem with a vision to provide Christian Education across the globe.
I wonder why the enmemy has found a way to get in and start to break up all the work towards accomplishing that vision.
I wonder what I could or should have done differently
that might have nade a godly difference.
I am grieved
and come to my Savior
to dwell in the fellowship of Light with Him
in the arms of my Father, God.,
and am cleansed again from all unrighteousness.
Come on In
The door is open
to anyone who wants to step out of the darkness
and into the Light and Love of Christ
and when I say
God Bless You
I Love You
You Are the Best
it's a message from the Christ in Me
to the Christ in You
It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance
and nothing shall separate us from His Love
Peace in Christ Jesus
and Glory be to The Father in Heaven
forever and ever
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TheInvisibleDan
Why do the righteous flee?
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Mark Sanguinetti
You know Estimated, I can see a real disconnect going on in your words and from this your thinking on this matter. Has anyone from Grease Spot Cafe ever sued a brother or a sister in the name of Christian ministry? Has anyone here seen spiders coming out of others noses or demons infested in others and then used this as a smear tactic for political/religious gain? And tell us how your own words, essentially telling others to pay special attention to all the demons supposedly causing all the problems in the world compare with Jesus' words in the gospels, when he said to rejoice not that we have power over demons, but to rejoice that our names are written in heaven? You know I have heard to much of what you are bringing to the table here with your in essence, glorificiation of demons to let your comments slip idily under the table. We saw this with TWI and now we are seeing this with some of your posts here. This may sound blunt, but you really sound like a double minded man. You are not doing yourself or others any favors with your thinking and words. If you want to truly be an example of Christ and be kind, tender hearted, forgiving one another as Christ forgave you as you profess at the beginning of your post above then please do so. But don't get side tracked any longer on this subtle form of demon worship like we had in TWI that your last post is clearly professing. Am I making myself clear on this? Or can you not see that most of your above post does not glorify Jesus Christ or speak edification, but instead tells others to mostly look out and watch out for demons which it sounds like you see behind every bush and under every table. Your words and fixation is first of all harmful to yourself, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Secondarily it makes a mockery of what it is to be a minister of the Lord Jesus while spreading the gospel.
And another thing Estimated. We all have to take responsibility for our words and actions. This is so that we can grow up into him who is Christ Jesus. Let's pray that the CES leaders get a realization of what their words and actions have caused and how they have not always educated or shown Christ's love to others. In fact, that they have sometimes been destructive to others faith. If we are in grave error and don't really know about it. How are we going to grow up into Him, who is the head of the body, the Lord Jesus Christ?
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
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WordWolf
[WordWolf responds in brackets and boldface again.]
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GrouchoMarxJr
...And don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.
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rich
Great job wordwolf
The run on junk and verbage in that letter was well disected by you.
All the blame was taken away from MG and the others , aquitted? The devil made me do it! All the people who were involved with the pp plunger, researching, teaching, practicing, performing etc are as equaly guilty as any one.
So estimated want to just forgive abd forget. I put a post on one of the threads about judgement where were are told to make right judgements. At least that's what I get from the word. But it is interesting how people still work at twisting responsiblity.
We have sites for sex ofenders that live in our area, so we can be aware. The crap that has gone on with ces/stf is no different and gs does a lot of this same thing. Minus those that have posted #$%@ in much anger etc.
A wakeup call is a good thing. Disfunction brought to light is a good thing. If someone robs or murders or rapes they are put in jail for thier crimes. I don't see much differance with the ces stuff. The differance is the court of law. It is us the body of those that have been stricken by the crimes that are witnessing and speaking in testamony. Since the courts don't handle cases like this we the body of saints get to do it.
AMEN
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rascal
Great points, Mark, word wolf and Rich. What a darned shame that estimated prophet is unwilling and unable to read them
He has to post and then flee, because
A) Our words are not worth reading or our thoughts worth considering...ie we are of no value.
B) They are frightened.
In order to live in their world, one must rightiously pronounce judgement and then run, all the while patting themselves on the back for telling those *evil* ones off, mentally checking off their good deed done for God this day.
I feel so sad.
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rascal
You know, I saw this once in a Frito Lay factory I worked in.
They would do horrible, sometimes illegal things to people, but call it by nice sounding names untill a persons usefullness was exhausted.
If they wanted you to rat out your fellow employee, it was called giving *feed back* If they required that you would work beyond what was legally allowed, they changed the job description that you clocked in under. When your body finally broke down because of the unending stress of heavy lifting, and needed hip replacement and back surgery...they looked you right in the eye and said...*you cannot PROVE that this happened on Frito Lay time* and you were out the door because your usefullness was exhausted.
That is what happens with this twi/off shoot stuff....use scriptures and misapplied teachings to do as you darned well pleas e rather than getting honest with God and making the difficult but necessary changes when we have gone off track...sigh
When it all comes crumbling down, blame satan, blame the person wronged, but deflect it from yourself at all cost.
People like EP/Frito Lay, seem to want everybody to just stfu and forgive, not hold people accountable, so that things can go right back to the way they always have been.
Oh there will be a few little cosmetic changes, but nothing to address the deeper abuse issues.
Damned right they want the questions stopped, so the verses are trotted out to try to shame their critics into silence........sure they want us to love/ie ignore the perpetrators actions so that they won`t have to look deeper into their own souls and address where they are wrong.
It is the same old thing as was with twi....cover your ars with scriptures and you won`t have to go through the arduos process of rebuilding your faulty, cracked and crumbling foundation.
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rascal
Oh and places like Frito Lay and off shoots will continue because there seems to always be a fresh supply of people willing to put up with the abuse and pretend that the people who have been thrown away were somehow to blame.
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Ham
kinda like throwing bacon off the trail to distract the blood hounds.
Really?
These jokers have MADE themselves "the enemy".
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
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pond
When it all goes well they do boast at the ministry they built!!
when it goes to crap suddenly it is about satan , the idea of the spirit causing trouble is not a new concept, just as far as God gets the glory for all they have done that they puff up about and collect money for , maybe in the same amount satan should get the blame for the sin they perform.
seems about right. This ministry claims God needs people(them) to perform their majestic takss and of course they are the ONES! WEll I submit satan as a spirit also needs people to perform his taks and they are the front line in that areana as well.
funny how it couldnt work that well seems like the theory of how important one is depends on how they operate as humans only works "sometimes" when it is good for them.
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excathedra
the christ in me just said "no thanks" to the christ in you
;)
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Wonder if estimated prophet was JL, JS, MG, or KG as spy(ies) in disguise, or could it be Satan himself?(dana Carvey as the Church Lady).
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excathedra
hmmmmm could be in my estimation.....
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GrouchoMarxJr
When I read the post, I had a feeling that it was MG...but if not, it was certainly someone who had a vested interest in CES...
I thought the use of the name "Estimated prophet" was a strange choice...it's the name of a Greatful Dead song.
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