If one saw more and more spiritual hardness THE CLOSER ONE GOT TO HQ, then shouldn't that have been a red flag indicating that it was coming from the root? the trustees? the mog?
Not necessarily. Depends on the facts of a particular situation.
Back in "the day".......(early 70's).......we were told three things to describe a twig:
1) self-governing
2) self-propagating
3) self-sufficient (??....not sure about that one)
Anyways, EACH TWIG was to be self-governing. The way I took that to mean, the twig coordinator had the right to SELF-GOVERN his little group of twigees. Of course, I believe that this was in accordance with the next higher unit (or something to that effect).....meaning, the branch coordinator was there with some oversight as well. Do any of you remember this stuff?
But basically, the twig coordinator and his/her assistant would carry the responsibility before God to make decisions that directly affected the twig.....and that's where self-propagating (growth) came in. When a twig was thriving with God's love and power, the dynamics of it attracted people.....LOTS of people. Sometimes, twigs grew as big as 35-40.....and didn't want to go anywhere else.
I don't quite remember how long these 3 qualities were emphasized, but I think that by around 1978 or so twi began phasing out that terminology and replacing it with MORE BRANCH OVERSIGHT.
IMO, there were situations where twig coordinators SPIRITUALLY SENSED TWI'S CORRUPTNESS and knew that things were going awry at hq. Therefore, holding onto "the class" and digging in their heels was one way of trying to retain the truth and live the truth. The corporate scene was coming down the pike.
Maybe that's why some reflect fondly back to "the good ole days."
This topic surfaces every so often and I find it SO INTRIGUING.......My twig coordinator protected us from twi. When someone makes this statement, it is usually followed up by criticism toward the limb coordinator, the branch coordinator, or the corps in general.
What is BEHIND such a statement? Is someone saying....
1) My twig coordinator protected us from twi policies and regulations that were absurd?
2) My twig coordinator protected us from twi's hardness and beauracratic dogma?
3) My twig coordinator protected us from wierwille's bad-azz corps?
4) My twig coordinator protected us with his love that was NOT seen from upper leaders?
5) My twig coordinator protected us...........???
If one saw more and more spiritual hardness THE CLOSER ONE GOT TO HQ, then shouldn't that have been a red flag indicating that it was coming from the root? the trustees? the mog?
Why would one NEEEEEEED protection.....if twi was God's ministry?
Anyone?
:blink:
I can't speak for whoever made that statement originally, but I'll give you my point of view on what is probably behind that statement.
While we coordinated various areas over the years and had been handed some pretty unagreeable stuff to do, we attributed it to, among other things, stupidity and politics, which we felt we were obligated to fight against within the organization. Some of it was initially done passive/aggressively. When it persisted, we were more openly rebellious and agressively confrontational. We ignored, b.s'd, and eventually outright refused to carry out directives from TWI which we felt were stupid, inefficient, unnecessary, invasive, and downright malicious toward people we felt God had entrusted to our care. Refusing to carry out directives from TWI which one feels would be harmful to another person in ones care, is protective of that person. I'm pretty sure other people in our position did the same thing, especially if you were coordinating a geographically isolated fellowship, branch, or area.
This all took place at varying degrees, while at the same time we were actively confronting people on up the line at HQ, in our effort to correct what we saw as wrong practice and procedures being implemented from above. I know we are not the only ones who at some point felt we had to do whatever we could at the time to "save God's ministry" as we saw it.
After a while, we saw it couldn't be saved, was hopelessly corrupt, and decided to leave.
After leaving, and putting the pieces together with a lot of other people, we saw it hadn't been "God's ministry" for a very long time.
After even more time, some of us wonder if it was ever "God's ministry" at all.
Escaping TWI's grasp has to be done by disentangling and pulling off one tentacle at a time
To answer the question at hand, my first twig coordinator kept us free from problems and politics going on at higher levels.
We had an added advantage of being somewhat geographically isolated.
Back in "the day".......(early 70's).......we were told three things to describe a twig:
1) self-governing
2) self-propagating
3) self-sufficient (??....not sure about that one)
Anyways, EACH TWIG was to be self-governing. The way I took that to mean, the twig coordinator had the right to SELF-GOVERN his little group of twigees. Of course, I believe that this was in accordance with the next higher unit (or something to that effect).....meaning, the branch coordinator was there with some oversight as well. Do any of you remember this stuff?
But basically, the twig coordinator and his/her assistant would carry the responsibility before God to make decisions that directly affected the twig.....and that's where self-propagating (growth) came in. When a twig was thriving with God's love and power, the dynamics of it attracted people.....LOTS of people. Sometimes, twigs grew as big as 35-40.....and didn't want to go anywhere else.
I don't quite remember how long these 3 qualities were emphasized, but I think that by around 1978 or so twi began phasing out that terminology and replacing it with MORE BRANCH OVERSIGHT.
IMO, there were situations where twig coordinators SPIRITUALLY SENSED TWI'S CORRUPTNESS and knew that things were going awry at hq. Therefore, holding onto "the class" and digging in their heels was one way of trying to retain the truth and live the truth. The corporate scene was coming down the pike.
Maybe that's why some reflect fondly back to "the good ole days."
I can't speak for anyone else, but in our case we were pretty independent as you describe.
I would add that as I understand it the way it was supposed to be was the limbs were supposed to support the branches and the branches were supposed to support the twigs.
In my own experience, it did not always work out that way.
There were those further up who did not want WOWs sent to where I was living.
And things were not always hunky dory in the twig.
All in all, for me it was a positive experience.
I angered some people at TWI but I did so by acting honestly in what I believed to be in the best interest of the twig I coordinated. If I ran into any of them on the street I wouldn't mind having a beer with them because I bear them no grudges.
If one saw more and more spiritual hardness THE CLOSER ONE GOT TO HQ, then shouldn't that have been a red flag indicating that it was coming from the root? the trustees? the mog?
Why would one NEEEEEEED protection.....if twi was God's ministry?
Anyone?
:blink:
Good point. If the root is bad, so will the entire tree be. After having 20/20 hindsight, I
can't imagine anyone still in doubt that twi wasn't God's ministry. In this case the
issue is following Wierwille as a prophet and man of God when the Bible clearly says to
do otherwise. Here are some lessons we should have learned from the Bible first:
1.) That we should not be called teacher, leader or Rabbi because one is our teacher, CHRIST.
"But you are not to be called Rabbi, (teacher), for you have only one Master
and you are all brothers. " Matthew 23:8
2.) That we should not try to fool ourselves into thinking that anyone living a sinful life is approved as a man/woman of God.
Do not be misled:"Bad company corrupts good character." 34. Come back to your senses as you ought and
stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame. 1 Corn 15:33-34
3.) To understand that your "twig" coordinator was just as lost as everyone else because they too were under
the deceptive spirit of a false prophet.
"10 and in every sort of evil that deceived those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to
LOVE THE TRUTH and so be saved. For this reason, God sends them a POWERFUL DELUSION so that they
will believe the lie...." 2 Thess 2:10
It's pretty clear that these false prophets are themselves deluded by Ha-Satan. The so named m.o.g. and his
trustees were all under that power of deception.
4.) The only "protection" a twig leader could give was to tell you to get out of that cult and put your faith in Christ,
not self proclaimed prophets who lived worse than pagans. Paul admonished the true followers of Christ:
"I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people 10 not al all meaning the
people of this world who are immoral or the greedy and swindlers or idolaters. In that case you would
have to leave this world.
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who CALLS HIMSELF A BROTHER
but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolator or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not
even eat. "1 Corn 5:9-11
If we follow the scriptures themselves rather than a man or a woman CLAIMING to know the Bible, we can
avoid all this abuse and heartache. We have to love the truth of God's word over the charismatic personalities
What I have a problem with.....is that in protecting people....the true nature of twi was hidden from those very people they wished to protect....in hind sight...in spite of our best intentions...it just wasn`t honest.
If vpw had plastered the truth as a disclaimer in the front of every way mag...Warning: Involvement in our ministry will require 10 percent of your income, absolute unquestioning obedience to any leadership, giving up all desires and activities not deemed profitable for moving the word, give up all serious pets, in some cases if you are young and pretty your special ministry might be required in servicing the men of God sexually...failure at any time to please your leader can result in permanent removal from all friends , family and co workers....monthly examinations with a microscope up your nether regions concerning personal finances are required....God Bless you :)
We`d have run fast and far and never looked back
People assumed that twi was a spiritually wholesome place, that it was a safe place to seek God because they saw the earnest christians that were doing their best to serve God with integrity and honesty.
Who could know that once moving to a new area beyond the protection of those valiant souls....that we would be faced with abuse/corruption/cruelty/broken families/broken hearts and in some tragic instances death?
I know WHY we did it...but I don`t know if it was a necessarily a good thing....evil was allowed to hide behind us...masquerading as a spiritually healthy, a safe organization.
I trusted twi because of those leaders that shielded me from the truth.
I disagree somewhat with the idea of "corrupt at the root, corrupt throughout." I think there were plenty of people with a genuine love for God and people, who got into TWI on "the field," far from headquarters. They could keep the fellowship sweet, meet needs, and fellowship with a minimum of interference. At least at first.
Like Rascal said, had we known what it was like at headquarters, perhaps many would have left sooner. For me, once I lived at RC for a year, I knew that all was not good, even without being privvy to the sex stuff. When I finally got it that it came straight from Wierwille, it wasn't hard to leave, as I'd promised myself that if TWI stopped being for God, I'd stop being for TWI. It was only later that I learned that TWI had never been much about God in the first place.
I think that staff at Headquarters had become the frog in the slowly heating pot of water. People stayed so long isolated from "the world" that they didn't know that life was sweeter on the outside. Many saw trouble, but felt they could stop it by staying with "the ministry that taught me the Word" and working from the inside for change. Didn't work that way, because the inside was trying to boil them, slowly, so they wouldn't notice.
Who could know that once moving to a new area beyond the protection of those valiant souls....that we would be faced with abuse/corruption/cruelty/broken families/broken hearts and in some tragic instances death?
Yes yes yes Yes YES!!
This is exactly what happened to me. Everything seemed great until I moved to a different area where the legalism was rampant. Even when I talk to some friends who are still involved from my own area they cannot believe the things I have seen and the things that have happened to me and my family.
A person's perception is their reality. If what you perceive twi to be is based only on good experiences, then how can you believe all the terrible things that happened? If you only see VP in pictures looking like a kindly old man and written about by his wife in the pages of "Born Again to Enslave" how can you imagine the atrocities he committed?
How could you even have a clue if that is your perception?
You can't. It seems like a weird paralell universe where all the good guys are replaced with evil people. It could never happen.
Right?
I found out differently when I moved from the area I was in where people took care of each other, where we weren't summoned to clean the LC's house, where for the most part we were treated with respect while the rest of the organization was collapsing in upon itself with mark and avoid and intense micromanagement. It took getting to a place closer to HQ before my husband and I even had a smidgen of a clue about what was really happening.
Protection? I don't know... maybe it was a combination of misplaced good intentions and ostrichization. Neither one of those get you anywhere.
I think that staff at Headquarters had become the frog in the slowly heating pot of water. People stayed so long isolated from "the world" that they didn't know that life was sweeter on the outside. Many saw trouble, but felt they could stop it by staying with "the ministry that taught me the Word" and working from the inside for change. Didn't work that way, because the inside was trying to boil them, slowly, so they wouldn't notice.
I have seen it many times, shaz, where people who worked at a RC were TOLD by their leadership that when they left it would be very hard for them out in the big bad ugly horribly adversary controlled world. That being at HQ was heaven compared to living out there. They told people that the adjustment would be hard for them.
As if not having someone micromanage your life and pay you minimum wage (or less) while working way tooo many hours was somehow hard to adjust from??
As if having internet access and your own phone was so hard to adjust to?
As if having your own bathroom and not moving every six months is hard to adjust to?
As if not having to submit a schedule to someone is hard to adjust to?
Oh, the HORRORS of the outside world!! THE HORROR of FREEDOM!!!!
I always feel bad for anyone who has ever worked on staff and for anyone who currently works on staff. Those poor poor people. I think I need to go pray for them.
This is exactly what happened to me. Everything seemed great until I moved to a different area where the legalism was rampant. Even when I talk to some friends who are still involved from my own area they cannot believe the things I have seen and the things that have happened to me and my family.
JavaJane.......yeah, it became so prevalent with legalism in the 90's that some believers would move WHEN their respected leadership received a different assignment to avoid lcm's legalistic liasons. In fact, I had several who moved to my state when we moved.....guess they liked the love and respect I gave them, eh?
As crazy as it sounds now, we really believed that we could "right the ship" if we stayed faithful and strong on the things of God. But, in the end, NO AMOUNT of time, effort, love, prayer, questioning, etc. could cause twi to turn to the Lord. It just wasn't going to happen.....and we parted ways. Thank you, God.
Rascal.........I hear what you are saying and agree. In our best intentions, we shielded our areas and branches from twi's deceitful underbelly.......but it only served to prolong the inevitable. The gangrene of arrogance and legalism was spreading throughout every class and program and teaching. Today, what many of us see from twi is paralyzing the heart and soul of many.
Hindsight is 20/20.....if I knew then, what I know NOW.....I would have left twi in 1979 and never looked back.
Amen!! I think that we were used in a horrible way. Not only to mask the evil activities, but even worse to lead people into the snare. Those of us who led with our pure hearts and selfless examples...our abiding love for God and each other....and worse yet....led other innocents into the snare to be consumed. Suspiscions were disarmed, internal alarms ignored, because of the examples that we set.
I know WHY we did it. I know we had the best of intentions.....but the bitterness of realising that in truth for all of our efforts to live for God....we were leading people into and disguising darkness....is at time overwhelming.
Self governing twigs...that's exactly what my twig was...WE decided...When everything began to publicly unravel (in the late 80's), I shot from the hip...I told my twig exactly what I knew and what I believed, I sheltered them from nothing....Our decisions were independant of the waytree.
I knew in my heart that lcm was really screwed up and that in NO way could I follow that man...
I think that the best way to "protect" people is to tell them the brutal truth and let them make informed decisions...
I disagree somewhat with the idea of "corrupt at the root, corrupt throughout." I think there were plenty of people with a genuine love for God and people, who got into TWI on "the field," far from headquarters. They could keep the fellowship sweet, meet needs, and fellowship with a minimum of interference. At least at first.
Hi Shazdancer,
I underlined your last thought above to show that the corruption of the root
eventually rose to the tree. What needs could your fellowship leaders meet
that Christ could not? Whatever the case, this doesn't change the fact that we
were ALL in a cult following a false prophet and his Satanic doctrines.
You can have a genuine love for people all you like but still be under the delusion
& power of Satan. That delusion makes you think that the leader's adulteries, drunkeness &
lies aren't really "all that bad", in spite of the fact that the Bible says such people
will have no inheritance in God's Kingdom. It also makes one an accomplice if
they are recruiting others to follow a wolf in sheep's clothing who abuses the flock.
Something about having a millstone strung around my neck just doesn't sound too appealing.
When people begin to say, "Well, if they just didn't do this or that, the cult would
have been alright", I really start feeling sick to my stomach. There is just no
way of salvaging anything of Satan. I am SO glad that I am now free to serve
my God and His Christ that I have no desire to look back or be back in a cult. I
was wrong to have followed any man but Christ and I am not ashamed to admit
my mistake. That was the first step to being restored. I pray that everyone here
Who could know that once moving to a new area beyond the protection of those valiant souls....that we would be faced with abuse/corruption/cruelty/broken families/broken hearts and in some tragic instances death?
I would have to agree with this statement.
Basically our entire limb was somewhat shielded, and our LC was very laid back and truly believed in the term "self-governing." This did actually allow for some sweet fellowship, but it was only a matter of time before things fell apart. When we were asked to move to Cleveland, right after moving I kept telling people that coming to Ohio was exactly like stepping into the Twilight Zone. Rather than sweet fellowship and a unity of the spirit, we found bizarre paranoia and suspicion. No unity, no trust, only suspicion and an immense fear pervaded the fellowships. Then, when checking on our folks in the old area, we found that they were disappointed in the poor quality of the new leadership, and the folks back home were experiencing pressures from above.
Shielding each other from the worst policies, and then our move, coincided with TWI's ratcheting up the pressure when the Corps went full time. This made for a huge jolt to not only us, but those we left behind in our old assignment. None of us were ready for that shock.
A fair number of us left for good shortly after that.
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Ham
I dunno.. toward the end, it was more like we were paying them for "protection"..
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Nottawayfer
EXCELLENT point Skyrider.
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oldiesman
Not necessarily. Depends on the facts of a particular situation.
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pond
lol
you got that right lol so true
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T-Bone
[nervously looking about]...uhm...before I say anything...do you have some kind of witness-protection program?
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Shellon
LOL T-bone, I thought similiar things when I considered answering the questions.
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skyrider
Back in "the day".......(early 70's).......we were told three things to describe a twig:
1) self-governing
2) self-propagating
3) self-sufficient (??....not sure about that one)
Anyways, EACH TWIG was to be self-governing. The way I took that to mean, the twig coordinator had the right to SELF-GOVERN his little group of twigees. Of course, I believe that this was in accordance with the next higher unit (or something to that effect).....meaning, the branch coordinator was there with some oversight as well. Do any of you remember this stuff?
But basically, the twig coordinator and his/her assistant would carry the responsibility before God to make decisions that directly affected the twig.....and that's where self-propagating (growth) came in. When a twig was thriving with God's love and power, the dynamics of it attracted people.....LOTS of people. Sometimes, twigs grew as big as 35-40.....and didn't want to go anywhere else.
I don't quite remember how long these 3 qualities were emphasized, but I think that by around 1978 or so twi began phasing out that terminology and replacing it with MORE BRANCH OVERSIGHT.
IMO, there were situations where twig coordinators SPIRITUALLY SENSED TWI'S CORRUPTNESS and knew that things were going awry at hq. Therefore, holding onto "the class" and digging in their heels was one way of trying to retain the truth and live the truth. The corporate scene was coming down the pike.
Maybe that's why some reflect fondly back to "the good ole days."
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Catcup
I can't speak for whoever made that statement originally, but I'll give you my point of view on what is probably behind that statement.
While we coordinated various areas over the years and had been handed some pretty unagreeable stuff to do, we attributed it to, among other things, stupidity and politics, which we felt we were obligated to fight against within the organization. Some of it was initially done passive/aggressively. When it persisted, we were more openly rebellious and agressively confrontational. We ignored, b.s'd, and eventually outright refused to carry out directives from TWI which we felt were stupid, inefficient, unnecessary, invasive, and downright malicious toward people we felt God had entrusted to our care. Refusing to carry out directives from TWI which one feels would be harmful to another person in ones care, is protective of that person. I'm pretty sure other people in our position did the same thing, especially if you were coordinating a geographically isolated fellowship, branch, or area.
This all took place at varying degrees, while at the same time we were actively confronting people on up the line at HQ, in our effort to correct what we saw as wrong practice and procedures being implemented from above. I know we are not the only ones who at some point felt we had to do whatever we could at the time to "save God's ministry" as we saw it.
After a while, we saw it couldn't be saved, was hopelessly corrupt, and decided to leave.
After leaving, and putting the pieces together with a lot of other people, we saw it hadn't been "God's ministry" for a very long time.
After even more time, some of us wonder if it was ever "God's ministry" at all.
Escaping TWI's grasp has to be done by disentangling and pulling off one tentacle at a time
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Deciderator
To answer the question at hand, my first twig coordinator kept us free from problems and politics going on at higher levels.
We had an added advantage of being somewhat geographically isolated.
I can't speak for anyone else, but in our case we were pretty independent as you describe.
I would add that as I understand it the way it was supposed to be was the limbs were supposed to support the branches and the branches were supposed to support the twigs.
In my own experience, it did not always work out that way.
There were those further up who did not want WOWs sent to where I was living.
And things were not always hunky dory in the twig.
All in all, for me it was a positive experience.
I angered some people at TWI but I did so by acting honestly in what I believed to be in the best interest of the twig I coordinated. If I ran into any of them on the street I wouldn't mind having a beer with them because I bear them no grudges.
That's just how I roll.
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ChristAlone
Good point. If the root is bad, so will the entire tree be. After having 20/20 hindsight, I
can't imagine anyone still in doubt that twi wasn't God's ministry. In this case the
issue is following Wierwille as a prophet and man of God when the Bible clearly says to
do otherwise. Here are some lessons we should have learned from the Bible first:
1.) That we should not be called teacher, leader or Rabbi because one is our teacher, CHRIST.
"But you are not to be called Rabbi, (teacher), for you have only one Master
and you are all brothers. " Matthew 23:8
2.) That we should not try to fool ourselves into thinking that anyone living a sinful life is approved as a man/woman of God.
Do not be misled:"Bad company corrupts good character." 34. Come back to your senses as you ought and
stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame. 1 Corn 15:33-34
3.) To understand that your "twig" coordinator was just as lost as everyone else because they too were under
the deceptive spirit of a false prophet.
"10 and in every sort of evil that deceived those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to
LOVE THE TRUTH and so be saved. For this reason, God sends them a POWERFUL DELUSION so that they
will believe the lie...." 2 Thess 2:10
It's pretty clear that these false prophets are themselves deluded by Ha-Satan. The so named m.o.g. and his
trustees were all under that power of deception.
4.) The only "protection" a twig leader could give was to tell you to get out of that cult and put your faith in Christ,
not self proclaimed prophets who lived worse than pagans. Paul admonished the true followers of Christ:
"I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people 10 not al all meaning the
people of this world who are immoral or the greedy and swindlers or idolaters. In that case you would
have to leave this world.
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who CALLS HIMSELF A BROTHER
but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolator or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not
even eat. "1 Corn 5:9-11
If we follow the scriptures themselves rather than a man or a woman CLAIMING to know the Bible, we can
avoid all this abuse and heartache. We have to love the truth of God's word over the charismatic personalities
of cult leaders.
Blessings to All,
ChristAlone
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pond
crap we can not go to resturants or eat in a public place anymore crap again half my ever loving family would be hungry at that!
oh no !
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rascal
What I have a problem with.....is that in protecting people....the true nature of twi was hidden from those very people they wished to protect....in hind sight...in spite of our best intentions...it just wasn`t honest.
If vpw had plastered the truth as a disclaimer in the front of every way mag...Warning: Involvement in our ministry will require 10 percent of your income, absolute unquestioning obedience to any leadership, giving up all desires and activities not deemed profitable for moving the word, give up all serious pets, in some cases if you are young and pretty your special ministry might be required in servicing the men of God sexually...failure at any time to please your leader can result in permanent removal from all friends , family and co workers....monthly examinations with a microscope up your nether regions concerning personal finances are required....God Bless you :)
We`d have run fast and far and never looked back
People assumed that twi was a spiritually wholesome place, that it was a safe place to seek God because they saw the earnest christians that were doing their best to serve God with integrity and honesty.
Who could know that once moving to a new area beyond the protection of those valiant souls....that we would be faced with abuse/corruption/cruelty/broken families/broken hearts and in some tragic instances death?
I know WHY we did it...but I don`t know if it was a necessarily a good thing....evil was allowed to hide behind us...masquerading as a spiritually healthy, a safe organization.
I trusted twi because of those leaders that shielded me from the truth.
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shazdancer
I disagree somewhat with the idea of "corrupt at the root, corrupt throughout." I think there were plenty of people with a genuine love for God and people, who got into TWI on "the field," far from headquarters. They could keep the fellowship sweet, meet needs, and fellowship with a minimum of interference. At least at first.
Like Rascal said, had we known what it was like at headquarters, perhaps many would have left sooner. For me, once I lived at RC for a year, I knew that all was not good, even without being privvy to the sex stuff. When I finally got it that it came straight from Wierwille, it wasn't hard to leave, as I'd promised myself that if TWI stopped being for God, I'd stop being for TWI. It was only later that I learned that TWI had never been much about God in the first place.
I think that staff at Headquarters had become the frog in the slowly heating pot of water. People stayed so long isolated from "the world" that they didn't know that life was sweeter on the outside. Many saw trouble, but felt they could stop it by staying with "the ministry that taught me the Word" and working from the inside for change. Didn't work that way, because the inside was trying to boil them, slowly, so they wouldn't notice.
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JavaJane
Yes yes yes Yes YES!!
This is exactly what happened to me. Everything seemed great until I moved to a different area where the legalism was rampant. Even when I talk to some friends who are still involved from my own area they cannot believe the things I have seen and the things that have happened to me and my family.
A person's perception is their reality. If what you perceive twi to be is based only on good experiences, then how can you believe all the terrible things that happened? If you only see VP in pictures looking like a kindly old man and written about by his wife in the pages of "Born Again to Enslave" how can you imagine the atrocities he committed?
How could you even have a clue if that is your perception?
You can't. It seems like a weird paralell universe where all the good guys are replaced with evil people. It could never happen.
Right?
I found out differently when I moved from the area I was in where people took care of each other, where we weren't summoned to clean the LC's house, where for the most part we were treated with respect while the rest of the organization was collapsing in upon itself with mark and avoid and intense micromanagement. It took getting to a place closer to HQ before my husband and I even had a smidgen of a clue about what was really happening.
Protection? I don't know... maybe it was a combination of misplaced good intentions and ostrichization. Neither one of those get you anywhere.
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JavaJane
I have seen it many times, shaz, where people who worked at a RC were TOLD by their leadership that when they left it would be very hard for them out in the big bad ugly horribly adversary controlled world. That being at HQ was heaven compared to living out there. They told people that the adjustment would be hard for them.
As if not having someone micromanage your life and pay you minimum wage (or less) while working way tooo many hours was somehow hard to adjust from??
As if having internet access and your own phone was so hard to adjust to?
As if having your own bathroom and not moving every six months is hard to adjust to?
As if not having to submit a schedule to someone is hard to adjust to?
Oh, the HORRORS of the outside world!! THE HORROR of FREEDOM!!!!
I always feel bad for anyone who has ever worked on staff and for anyone who currently works on staff. Those poor poor people. I think I need to go pray for them.
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skyrider
JavaJane.......yeah, it became so prevalent with legalism in the 90's that some believers would move WHEN their respected leadership received a different assignment to avoid lcm's legalistic liasons. In fact, I had several who moved to my state when we moved.....guess they liked the love and respect I gave them, eh?
As crazy as it sounds now, we really believed that we could "right the ship" if we stayed faithful and strong on the things of God. But, in the end, NO AMOUNT of time, effort, love, prayer, questioning, etc. could cause twi to turn to the Lord. It just wasn't going to happen.....and we parted ways. Thank you, God.
Rascal.........I hear what you are saying and agree. In our best intentions, we shielded our areas and branches from twi's deceitful underbelly.......but it only served to prolong the inevitable. The gangrene of arrogance and legalism was spreading throughout every class and program and teaching. Today, what many of us see from twi is paralyzing the heart and soul of many.
Hindsight is 20/20.....if I knew then, what I know NOW.....I would have left twi in 1979 and never looked back.
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rascal
Amen!! I think that we were used in a horrible way. Not only to mask the evil activities, but even worse to lead people into the snare. Those of us who led with our pure hearts and selfless examples...our abiding love for God and each other....and worse yet....led other innocents into the snare to be consumed. Suspiscions were disarmed, internal alarms ignored, because of the examples that we set.
I know WHY we did it. I know we had the best of intentions.....but the bitterness of realising that in truth for all of our efforts to live for God....we were leading people into and disguising darkness....is at time overwhelming.
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excathedra
okay, i only read sky's first post
i remember when we were called to hush-hush corps meetings at the limb home about problems up above (snort)
we were told NOT to tell our twig
the first thing we did was go and tell our twi
then our nice friends asked us to keep running a fellowship in or out of the way
we declined
felt bad in an emotional way, but just couldn't buy into it
hope that makes sense
--
it was more like a branch of a group of twigs (in reference to what was said about starting to blame higher ups)
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GrouchoMarxJr
Self governing twigs...that's exactly what my twig was...WE decided...When everything began to publicly unravel (in the late 80's), I shot from the hip...I told my twig exactly what I knew and what I believed, I sheltered them from nothing....Our decisions were independant of the waytree.
I knew in my heart that lcm was really screwed up and that in NO way could I follow that man...
I think that the best way to "protect" people is to tell them the brutal truth and let them make informed decisions...
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excathedra
i agree
the odd thing was explaining how "freed" i was from veepee
prior to that, i had talked to and written craig and asked him to go a different path that the father in the word
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ChristAlone
Hi Shazdancer,
I underlined your last thought above to show that the corruption of the root
eventually rose to the tree. What needs could your fellowship leaders meet
that Christ could not? Whatever the case, this doesn't change the fact that we
were ALL in a cult following a false prophet and his Satanic doctrines.
You can have a genuine love for people all you like but still be under the delusion
& power of Satan. That delusion makes you think that the leader's adulteries, drunkeness &
lies aren't really "all that bad", in spite of the fact that the Bible says such people
will have no inheritance in God's Kingdom. It also makes one an accomplice if
they are recruiting others to follow a wolf in sheep's clothing who abuses the flock.
Something about having a millstone strung around my neck just doesn't sound too appealing.
When people begin to say, "Well, if they just didn't do this or that, the cult would
have been alright", I really start feeling sick to my stomach. There is just no
way of salvaging anything of Satan. I am SO glad that I am now free to serve
my God and His Christ that I have no desire to look back or be back in a cult. I
was wrong to have followed any man but Christ and I am not ashamed to admit
my mistake. That was the first step to being restored. I pray that everyone here
finds that same freedom and peace.
Bless you,
ChristAlone
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waysider
C.A.
I find your posts to be insightful and enlightening.
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polar bear
Dear Sky-
I think you have a point. Why did we try to protect our people. That's exactly what I tried to do. Maybe it's human nature.
Speaking for myself, I was hoping things whould change at HQ.
I finally figured it out == I left.
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Catcup
I would have to agree with this statement.
Basically our entire limb was somewhat shielded, and our LC was very laid back and truly believed in the term "self-governing." This did actually allow for some sweet fellowship, but it was only a matter of time before things fell apart. When we were asked to move to Cleveland, right after moving I kept telling people that coming to Ohio was exactly like stepping into the Twilight Zone. Rather than sweet fellowship and a unity of the spirit, we found bizarre paranoia and suspicion. No unity, no trust, only suspicion and an immense fear pervaded the fellowships. Then, when checking on our folks in the old area, we found that they were disappointed in the poor quality of the new leadership, and the folks back home were experiencing pressures from above.
Shielding each other from the worst policies, and then our move, coincided with TWI's ratcheting up the pressure when the Corps went full time. This made for a huge jolt to not only us, but those we left behind in our old assignment. None of us were ready for that shock.
A fair number of us left for good shortly after that.
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