They really do need prayer. He has NO idea that what he's doing is not ''on the Word". He really is trying to make a difference. He did/does not condone what Craig did. He was a mess at the time over it.
The problem is most of the staffers at the Way do not know about ol VIC. They just can't believe it. (or don't want to). :blink:
A mess over what craig did, or that he got caught?
Bliss, how does he reconcile that with the fact that HIS MOTHER covered for vee pee and craig? How does he justify the fact that she had a serious hand in covering, supporting and allowing rape to continue on her watch for decades?
Not trying to be a sh1+, but the fact is his parents could have put a stop to things way back to the days of vee pee and they did nothing. They covered and continued to cover with blatant disregard for the lives being destroyed.
I just wonder how much of it Brian is aware of and, like so many of us, how many red flags he's ignored through the years.
He said some things I'd like to smash his face in for. He's encouraging human slavery among cabinet.
Ahhhhh, so he's learned well from vee pee, craig and, most importantly his daddy. Bobby was a master at treating folks like slaves.
Conneron, This is the son, not his father who last I heard is over in Great Britain. I assume his name is Robert Brian Monihan(Jr. maybe)? Have already informed Nicky Gumbel and Bishop Sandy Milner, plus retired priest Richard Bewes and Paul Blackman. For more info, check out Holy Trinity Brompton Church, and St.Paul's both in London. That is about TWI trying to re-invade England.
He said some things I'd like to smash his face in for. He's encouraging human slavery among cabinet.
Most Way Corps who thought they were God's elite compared to the lowly believer practiced human slavery. I wonder what BM's peers think of him? If he is going to be another Craig Martindale, the poor people who are still scared to leave TWI are in for yet ANOTHER rollercoaster ride.
Maybe this could be the final fall for TWI......I can only hope and pray.
A mess over what craig did, or that he got caught?
Bliss, how does he reconcile that with the fact that HIS MOTHER covered for vee pee and craig? How does he justify the fact that she had a serious hand in covering, supporting and allowing rape to continue on her watch for decades?
Not trying to be a sh1+, but the fact is his parents could have put a stop to things way back to the days of vee pee and they did nothing. They covered and continued to cover with blatant disregard for the lives being destroyed.
I just wonder how much of it Brian is aware of and, like so many of us, how many red flags he's ignored through the years.
Ahhhhh, so he's learned well from vee pee, craig and, most importantly his daddy. Bobby was a master at treating folks like slaves.
I don't know, Belle, not many kids really ''know'' what bad their parents do. I have spent much time with them all in this family, and it was always (to me), that they were disgusted by what Craig did. Always trying to make sense of it all. If Dot personally knew of VP, and Craig for years, she never let on one iota that she knew, or agreed with the behavior. Nor do I believe that Brian knows anything that his mom ''may have'' participated in.
I won't judge their hearts, nor will I say ''none of them knew''. But, hanging out with them as peers, I noticed a very upsetting and a "let down" countenance.
Bolshevik- I am sure he said nasty stuff to ya. I sure did. Anyone that was a leader under Craig in the 90's had a lovely disposition with that behavior.
Heck, I am sure some of my ol friends from fellowship would say that I could be a real beeeaatch!It was par for the course in that era.
I have since apologized and repented. Only because I realized how wrong my behavior was, even though I was only following orders!
Bolshevik- I am sure he said nasty stuff to ya. I sure did. Anyone that was a leader under Craig in the 90's had a lovely disposition with that behavior. Heck, I am sure some of my ol friends from fellowship would say that I could be a real beeeaatch!It was par for the course in that era.
I have since apologized and repented. Only because I realized how wrong my behavior was, even though I was only following orders![/color][/font][/size]
I think that's the point, though... Bob's kid isn't going around apologizing, he's strategizing on how to become the next MOG... kinda puts a different perspective on things for me.
The whole thing reads like an old re-run of Dynasty or something..
Or Dallas..
Hmm. Maybe that's an idea..
maybe rosie should put young montyhans and another arrogant youngster in charge of half of the organization, each. At the end of the year, the one who can squeeze blood out of a rock wins the booby prize..
They could have dueling SNS teachings. Maybe even dueling prophecies, like CES did.
"thus sayeth da lard, thou art a worthless scumbucket.."
"nay, da lard says THOU art a possessed pawn of der debil.."
The staffers might get a reprieve, while the two go at each other..
Bolshevik- I am sure he said nasty stuff to ya. I sure did. Anyone that was a leader under Craig in the 90's had a lovely disposition with that behavior.
Heck, I am sure some of my ol friends from fellowship would say that I could be a real beeeaatch!It was par for the course in that era.
I have since apologized and repented. Only because I realized how wrong my behavior was, even though I was only following orders![/color][/font][/size]
what your saying is he can't change. becuase the 90s were seven years ago. the only way to really apologize is to first denounce twi entirely.
when I confronted leadership at twi all they can say is "oh, well, it used to be a lot worse." no apologies, no recognition of error. They are all scum. Brian included.
Hey, I wish above all things that he would change. But, under the current doctrinal delisions they live under, repentance is a far cry from their conscience.
Personally, he never did anything wrong to me. That is why I am on this side of the fence.
But, you have every right to be mad. I guess because I ''love'' them, I am sensitive to name calling is all.
When I made a list of about 20 things I would need to see change before I even graced The Way's presence again.........(one was an apology) ,his PA said
"Well, maybe those things will be addressed, SOME DAY!"
Now, those things could be done, and I still wouldn't show up for fellowship, but that was 2 years ago.....
So, I know they are not stupid, just stupidly loyal.
I know for a fact about one abusive situation that D. Moyn. never disclosed to anyone. So it wouldn't be too far fetched to assume she knew about Craig and any others.
I know for a fact about one abusive situation that D. Moyn. never disclosed to anyone. So it wouldn't be too far fetched to assume she knew about Craig and any others.
I, too, know of ONE SEXUALLY ABUSIVE SITUATION that Dott1e kept under raps. She knew that Craiggers was a sexual predator by the early 90s.
Yeah......Dott1e knows how to climb twi's corporate ladder by "assisting the prez" and keeping her mouth shut. Sure, she could have pulled the lid off this stuff and stopped lots of destruction and aftermath........but then, she and Boob wouldn't be the "esteemed leaders" that they are today.
I know of SCORES of situations boob and doody covered up......not just for the dancing prez, but for the founding one too!!!.......and they knew plenty, well before the "early '90's!! she wasted a lotta abs getting her degree in "counselling"!!........she's an absolute disgrace to both the word and the practice!!!
As close as they were to those two serial sexual predators i mentioned, how come when the dancing prez was "tossed", they came out "smelling like a rose"??
where's the "genuine spiritual suspicion" regarding their involvement with king okie??.......they contracted one of the most severe cases of "optharectalitis" in the history of the disease by having their heads stuffed so far up the "athlete's arse"!!!.........is that why rosie shipped 'em off to england??......too much dirt in their "lockboxes"??....boob is one of biggest loser's you'll ever meet!!......spineless, gutless wimp!!!.......marked and avoided his closest and oldest "friends" in his attempt to achieve new depths of service to his hero mog!!..........i'm glad they're out of this country........england beware!.........
as i mentioned before on this thread regarding young bri bri,......no "new hope" from him........rotten gene pool, both "spiritually" and physiologically!.......sheesh!
I know of SCORES of situations boob and doody covered up......not just for the dancing prez, but for the founding one too!!!.......and they knew plenty, well before the "early '90's!! she wasted a lotta abs getting her degree in "counselling"!!........she's an absolute disgrace to both the word and the practice!!!
Interesting, it clearly shows what type of hypocrites they are as they kept mouthing off "The love of money is the root of all evil...blah...blah...blah". For someone who has a lot of money to take ABS money to get a degree, what a shame and disgrace in every sense.
As close as they were to those two serial sexual predators i mentioned, how come when the dancing prez was "tossed", they came out "smelling like a rose"??
where's the "genuine spiritual suspicion" regarding their involvement with king okie??.......they contracted one of the most severe cases of "optharectalitis" in the history of the disease by having their heads stuffed so far up the "athlete's arse"!!!.........is that why rosie shipped 'em off to england??......too much dirt in their "lockboxes"??
They sure got by being arse kissing two faces, shifting factions at their convenience like rats jumping out of one sinking ship (Loy Boy) into another (Da Fox)
....boob is one of biggest loser's you'll ever meet!!......spineless, gutless wimp!!!.......
spineless, gutless wimp is putting it mildly. He's a big bullying coward that likes to throw his weight around acting tough to the low-ranked believers, but when someone stands up to him, he hides behind someone's skirt for protection. Sounds familiar to those who know him well, eh?
marked and avoided his closest and oldest "friends" in his attempt to achieve new depths of service to his hero mog!!..........i'm glad they're out of this country........england beware!.........
There's no limit to the depravity and perversity of their greed. They sure know how to elevate Greed into an art form. OK... the whole "effing" ministry sure made Greed an art form. Them succeeding in England and with Internet info availability, yeah... right , I don't think the Limeys will appreciate a couple of Yanks barking orders at them.
as i mentioned before on this thread regarding young bri bri,......no "new hope" from him........rotten gene pool, both "spiritually" and physiologically!.......sheesh!
As I mentioned also in regard to Booby Bri Jr on becoming leader... Same S**t Different Day.
So.. they want somebody who can move a crowd, a "charismatic" individual.. sound like they want somebody like loy.
I would be careful what I wished for.. they may get the whole package.
Eventually they'll have another mean, arrogant, over the hill just past middle age worn out excuse of a mogster looking to relive the loss of his hair, or manhood..
I don't know, Belle, not many kids really ''know'' what bad their parents do. I have spent much time with them all in this family, and it was always (to me), that they were disgusted by what Craig did. Always trying to make sense of it all. If Dot personally knew of VP, and Craig for years, she never let on one iota that she knew, or agreed with the behavior. Nor do I believe that Brian knows anything that his mom ''may have'' participated in.
I won't judge their hearts, nor will I say ''none of them knew''. But, hanging out with them as peers, I noticed a very upsetting and a "let down" countenance.
Bolshevik- I am sure he said nasty stuff to ya. I sure did. Anyone that was a leader under Craig in the 90's had a lovely disposition with that behavior.
Heck, I am sure some of my ol friends from fellowship would say that I could be a real beeeaatch!It was par for the course in that era.
I have since apologized and repented. Only because I realized how wrong my behavior was, even though I was only following orders!
Bliss, Dottie has admitted to at least one couple in the Tampa area that she had prior knowledge of the sexual abuse going on. She, furthermore, admitted to lying about knowing about it. There have also been numerous first hand accounts posted over the years at WayDale and here at the cafe. I realize you probably weren't around when those things were posted, but I can, if you want, provide verification from very reliable sources privately.
Bob has admitted to hearing tales of the abuse and refusing to do anything about it. I've personally heard him say that much. Instead of helping people, he told them to quit coming to him and to take care of it themselves. Yeah, a woman who's been raped by "the man of god" is really going to be able to confront him herself and do anything about protecting or saving other women from the same fate. <_<
I realize you are close to them and that this is probably very hard to acknowledge, but it's the truth. :( They are not "good people". They are not good "christian leaders". They have not and do not protect the flock.
They have taught Brian how to "work the system", whether directly or indirectly (probably a bit of both) and the fact that they continue to support that awful, abusive, ungodly organization and support their son doing the same, speaks rather loudly. I know how much Angel@ C@pillary learned from living with them, so I've no doubt Brian is very well aware of much more than that.
Like someone else said, you apologized because you realized how wrong we were - they haven't apologized and refuse to admit that they are wrong and that they are personally responsible for destroying lives.
I realize you are close to them and that this is probably very hard to acknowledge, but it's the truth. :( They are not "good people". They are not good "christian leaders". They have not and do not protect the flock.
Ignorance is NOTbliss in this situation.
It isn't hard for me to acknowledge that they have done wrong. I am not" in"anymore, even though they TRIED to convince us to stay. (B&D)
I guess never being the object or (victim) of their wrath, and being a"younger'' peer has somewhat affected how I view them.
Heck, we've even ''reproved'' them before. (and we were NOT their leadership). They humbly apologized.
They have sold out to the ''message'' of the bible the ministry teaches. They really don't think there is anywhere else to go. ( JCNG, DNAN, etc.....)
They told me point blank that they don't believe for one minute that the ''minstry is the Word, and the Word is the Ministry". That it is just the vehicle they use to talk and teach about God.
I don't agree with their reasons for staying. I don't agree with ''covering up'' the situations of abuse.
I never saw this ''evil'' behavior from them. Only heard. That doesn't mean they didn't do it.
But, if I am a friend, then, I will be one. What am I suppossed to do? Dump them? Sorry, my beliefs in Jesus to love them where they are at, tell me otherwise. I will tell the truth as I see it. But, how can love help them, if I don't love. I take a more optimistic approach I guess.
Their son though is just fighting for the only thing he knows. Sure he's trying to make it good by (fruitless)''works'', but he thinks it's worth fighting for.
(no apology is typical for their belief system anyway.........don't expect that unless they wake up and leave.)
Who else is gonna do it? Â Those in league with them at TWI? Â Sure....
We've told them plenty about what we were unhappy about.
I don't feel the need ( at this point) in telling them, ''I heard on the internet that you did A , B , C................whatcha gonna do about it? Is it true? "
Talk about the defenses going up! That wouldn't go far.
You are right and I agree that those around them aren't going to hold their feet to the fire.
But, since they know we aren't ''standing'' anymore, they hold their tongue plenty. I wouldn't call our relationship ''close'' anymore. But, to be expected. They know we've gone the Christian route, yet still send cards and emails.
So, if God opens the door........(we did knock already) we will barge in, believe me. What I believe is that God is the one that will work on their hearts when and if they are ever ready. Whether I plant a seed, or someone else, no matter.
I came to GSC and found out all this stuff before I left. What prompted me to search? It wasn't that something bad happend to me or someone made me mad. The opposite. We were actually better (in life) than ever before (no craig, no yelling...new home..) and yet, I still felt a calling to leave.
It all started when I took time to digest Prov. 3..........................................................
Dear, Sweet, Bliss, I hope that you did not read my post as insinuating or even suggesting that you need to "do something" about them. :) It's the goodness of God that leads man to repentance and your life, love and example could be just what ends up being the straw that breaks that camel's back.
It sounded as if you weren't sure about Bob & Dottie covering and, thereby, allowing people's lives to be destroyed. I just wanted to let you know it's not just idle speculation. They've lied to you. That's all I was saying.
I would never tell someone what they need to do about relationships. I got enough of it when I was still "in", hiding my identity online and hoping against hope that my ex would "wake up" and leave that god forsaken group with me. Some people did not/would not/could not understand why I didn't just "leave the b@stard". Every situation and relationship is different and only those intimately involved know the true dynamics.
I do hope that they will come clean some day. Whether they do or not, they will have to answer to someone a lot more powerful and a lot more upset with what they've done with their lives than any of us here on earth.
Belle, I'm not about to tell anyone what to do either, bliss brought it up, and I amsimply answering her/his question:
I don't agree with their reasons for staying. I don't agree with ''covering up'' the situations of abuse.....Â
But, if I am a friend, then, I will be one.What am I suppossed to do? Dump them? Sorry, my beliefs in Jesus to love them where they are at, tell me otherwise. I will tell the truth as I see it. But, how can love help them, if I don't love. I take a more optimistic approach I guess.
I see the love of God differently.
This dynamic is at work at lot out there, if you are not the recipient of the evil works or acts of the individual, then it is awfully hard to stand up for those to whom it's been done.  That is why ole vp got away with it like he did, and how so many were hurt and discarded over the years in TWI.  There was certainly no one to stand up for them and for what was right.  IMO, the Moneyhands are absolutely immersed in deception and they are the promoters of it, they are full of pride, as in the original sin, and are harbingers of lies and lascivious acts. Â
Bliss, I realize it is hard if you value the kind of relationship you have with them and want it to stay the way you want it. Â I couldn't do it, but you feel you need to protect the relationship, after all they might get mad and end it with you if you get too confrontational. Â Do what you will. Â
My approach is what the bible tells me to do about ministers who don't guard and protect the flock and are in the throws of sin and devilish acts. Â They are the ones that have accepted a "leadership" position, and that is why we are talking about it here.
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Belle
A mess over what craig did, or that he got caught?
Bliss, how does he reconcile that with the fact that HIS MOTHER covered for vee pee and craig? How does he justify the fact that she had a serious hand in covering, supporting and allowing rape to continue on her watch for decades?
Not trying to be a sh1+, but the fact is his parents could have put a stop to things way back to the days of vee pee and they did nothing. They covered and continued to cover with blatant disregard for the lives being destroyed.
I just wonder how much of it Brian is aware of and, like so many of us, how many red flags he's ignored through the years.
Ahhhhh, so he's learned well from vee pee, craig and, most importantly his daddy. Bobby was a master at treating folks like slaves.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Conneron, This is the son, not his father who last I heard is over in Great Britain. I assume his name is Robert Brian Monihan(Jr. maybe)? Have already informed Nicky Gumbel and Bishop Sandy Milner, plus retired priest Richard Bewes and Paul Blackman. For more info, check out Holy Trinity Brompton Church, and St.Paul's both in London. That is about TWI trying to re-invade England.
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Nottawayfer
Most Way Corps who thought they were God's elite compared to the lowly believer practiced human slavery. I wonder what BM's peers think of him? If he is going to be another Craig Martindale, the poor people who are still scared to leave TWI are in for yet ANOTHER rollercoaster ride.
Maybe this could be the final fall for TWI......I can only hope and pray.
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shortfuse
Human slavery among the cabinet, eh? Care to elaborate? Sounds a bit melodramatic.
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excathedra
copenhagen you are so funny
----
nice to see you again connerron
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bliss
I don't know, Belle, not many kids really ''know'' what bad their parents do. I have spent much time with them all in this family, and it was always (to me), that they were disgusted by what Craig did. Always trying to make sense of it all. If Dot personally knew of VP, and Craig for years, she never let on one iota that she knew, or agreed with the behavior. Nor do I believe that Brian knows anything that his mom ''may have'' participated in.
I won't judge their hearts, nor will I say ''none of them knew''. But, hanging out with them as peers, I noticed a very upsetting and a "let down" countenance.
Bolshevik- I am sure he said nasty stuff to ya. I sure did. Anyone that was a leader under Craig in the 90's had a lovely disposition with that behavior.
Heck, I am sure some of my ol friends from fellowship would say that I could be a real beeeaatch!It was par for the course in that era.
I have since apologized and repented. Only because I realized how wrong my behavior was, even though I was only following orders!
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Ham
His predecessor(s) had a name for it: working "heartily" as unto da lord, and being paid on "needs basis".
No retirement to really speak of..
health "benefits" that have to pass the approval of your immediate superior, and the superiors superior.
having a group of young slaves, with no real health issues, or care of retirement is pretty convenient..
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TheHighWay
I think that's the point, though... Bob's kid isn't going around apologizing, he's strategizing on how to become the next MOG... kinda puts a different perspective on things for me.
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Ham
The whole thing reads like an old re-run of Dynasty or something..
Or Dallas..
Hmm. Maybe that's an idea..
maybe rosie should put young montyhans and another arrogant youngster in charge of half of the organization, each. At the end of the year, the one who can squeeze blood out of a rock wins the booby prize..
They could have dueling SNS teachings. Maybe even dueling prophecies, like CES did.
"thus sayeth da lard, thou art a worthless scumbucket.."
"nay, da lard says THOU art a possessed pawn of der debil.."
The staffers might get a reprieve, while the two go at each other..
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Bolshevik
Melodramatic? No. I don't think so.
Brian is scum. Or just dumb.
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Bolshevik
what your saying is he can't change. becuase the 90s were seven years ago. the only way to really apologize is to first denounce twi entirely.
when I confronted leadership at twi all they can say is "oh, well, it used to be a lot worse." no apologies, no recognition of error. They are all scum. Brian included.
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bliss
Hey, I wish above all things that he would change. But, under the current doctrinal delisions they live under, repentance is a far cry from their conscience.
Personally, he never did anything wrong to me. That is why I am on this side of the fence.
But, you have every right to be mad. I guess because I ''love'' them, I am sensitive to name calling is all.
When I made a list of about 20 things I would need to see change before I even graced The Way's presence again.........(one was an apology) ,his PA said
"Well, maybe those things will be addressed, SOME DAY!"
Now, those things could be done, and I still wouldn't show up for fellowship, but that was 2 years ago.....
So, I know they are not stupid, just stupidly loyal.
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passthetrash
I know for a fact about one abusive situation that D. Moyn. never disclosed to anyone. So it wouldn't be too far fetched to assume she knew about Craig and any others.
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skyrider
I, too, know of ONE SEXUALLY ABUSIVE SITUATION that Dott1e kept under raps. She knew that Craiggers was a sexual predator by the early 90s.
Yeah......Dott1e knows how to climb twi's corporate ladder by "assisting the prez" and keeping her mouth shut. Sure, she could have pulled the lid off this stuff and stopped lots of destruction and aftermath........but then, she and Boob wouldn't be the "esteemed leaders" that they are today.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hello everybody!
I know of SCORES of situations boob and doody covered up......not just for the dancing prez, but for the founding one too!!!.......and they knew plenty, well before the "early '90's!! she wasted a lotta abs getting her degree in "counselling"!!........she's an absolute disgrace to both the word and the practice!!!
As close as they were to those two serial sexual predators i mentioned, how come when the dancing prez was "tossed", they came out "smelling like a rose"??
where's the "genuine spiritual suspicion" regarding their involvement with king okie??.......they contracted one of the most severe cases of "optharectalitis" in the history of the disease by having their heads stuffed so far up the "athlete's arse"!!!.........is that why rosie shipped 'em off to england??......too much dirt in their "lockboxes"??....boob is one of biggest loser's you'll ever meet!!......spineless, gutless wimp!!!.......marked and avoided his closest and oldest "friends" in his attempt to achieve new depths of service to his hero mog!!..........i'm glad they're out of this country........england beware!.........
as i mentioned before on this thread regarding young bri bri,......no "new hope" from him........rotten gene pool, both "spiritually" and physiologically!.......sheesh!
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FreeFromCults
New leader, eh?
Same S**t Different Day.
More like Same S**t Different Person
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FreeFromCults
Interesting, it clearly shows what type of hypocrites they are as they kept mouthing off "The love of money is the root of all evil...blah...blah...blah". For someone who has a lot of money to take ABS money to get a degree, what a shame and disgrace in every sense.
They sure got by being arse kissing two faces, shifting factions at their convenience like rats jumping out of one sinking ship (Loy Boy) into another (Da Fox)spineless, gutless wimp is putting it mildly. He's a big bullying coward that likes to throw his weight around acting tough to the low-ranked believers, but when someone stands up to him, he hides behind someone's skirt for protection. Sounds familiar to those who know him well, eh?
There's no limit to the depravity and perversity of their greed. They sure know how to elevate Greed into an art form. OK... the whole "effing" ministry sure made Greed an art form. Them succeeding in England and with Internet info availability, yeah... rightAs I mentioned also in regard to Booby Bri Jr on becoming leader... Same S**t Different Day.
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Ham
So.. they want somebody who can move a crowd, a "charismatic" individual.. sound like they want somebody like loy.
I would be careful what I wished for.. they may get the whole package.
Eventually they'll have another mean, arrogant, over the hill just past middle age worn out excuse of a mogster looking to relive the loss of his hair, or manhood..
some don't age very gracefully..
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Belle
Bliss, Dottie has admitted to at least one couple in the Tampa area that she had prior knowledge of the sexual abuse going on. She, furthermore, admitted to lying about knowing about it. There have also been numerous first hand accounts posted over the years at WayDale and here at the cafe. I realize you probably weren't around when those things were posted, but I can, if you want, provide verification from very reliable sources privately.
Bob has admitted to hearing tales of the abuse and refusing to do anything about it. I've personally heard him say that much. Instead of helping people, he told them to quit coming to him and to take care of it themselves. Yeah, a woman who's been raped by "the man of god" is really going to be able to confront him herself and do anything about protecting or saving other women from the same fate. <_<
I realize you are close to them and that this is probably very hard to acknowledge, but it's the truth. :( They are not "good people". They are not good "christian leaders". They have not and do not protect the flock.
They have taught Brian how to "work the system", whether directly or indirectly (probably a bit of both) and the fact that they continue to support that awful, abusive, ungodly organization and support their son doing the same, speaks rather loudly. I know how much Angel@ C@pillary learned from living with them, so I've no doubt Brian is very well aware of much more than that.
Like someone else said, you apologized because you realized how wrong we were - they haven't apologized and refuse to admit that they are wrong and that they are personally responsible for destroying lives.
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bliss
Ignorance is NOT bliss in this situation.
It isn't hard for me to acknowledge that they have done wrong. I am not" in"anymore, even though they TRIED to convince us to stay. (B&D)
I guess never being the object or (victim) of their wrath, and being a"younger'' peer has somewhat affected how I view them.
Heck, we've even ''reproved'' them before. (and we were NOT their leadership). They humbly apologized.
They have sold out to the ''message'' of the bible the ministry teaches. They really don't think there is anywhere else to go. ( JCNG, DNAN, etc.....)
They told me point blank that they don't believe for one minute that the ''minstry is the Word, and the Word is the Ministry". That it is just the vehicle they use to talk and teach about God.
I don't agree with their reasons for staying. I don't agree with ''covering up'' the situations of abuse.
I never saw this ''evil'' behavior from them. Only heard. That doesn't mean they didn't do it.
But, if I am a friend, then, I will be one. What am I suppossed to do? Dump them? Sorry, my beliefs in Jesus to love them where they are at, tell me otherwise. I will tell the truth as I see it. But, how can love help them, if I don't love. I take a more optimistic approach I guess.
Their son though is just fighting for the only thing he knows. Sure he's trying to make it good by (fruitless)''works'', but he thinks it's worth fighting for.
(no apology is typical for their belief system anyway.........don't expect that unless they wake up and leave.)
Blind leading the blind.
Sooner or later, they will fall in the ditch.
I just pray that they see before it happens.
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now I see
Bliss,
you said:
A fellow GS'er told me this recently, "evil reigns when good men do nothing".
They need their feet held to the fire.
Who else is gonna do it? Â Those in league with them at TWI? Â Sure....
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bliss
We've told them plenty about what we were unhappy about.
I don't feel the need ( at this point) in telling them, ''I heard on the internet that you did A , B , C................whatcha gonna do about it? Is it true? "
Talk about the defenses going up! That wouldn't go far.
You are right and I agree that those around them aren't going to hold their feet to the fire.
But, since they know we aren't ''standing'' anymore, they hold their tongue plenty. I wouldn't call our relationship ''close'' anymore. But, to be expected. They know we've gone the Christian route, yet still send cards and emails.
So, if God opens the door........(we did knock already) we will barge in, believe me. What I believe is that God is the one that will work on their hearts when and if they are ever ready. Whether I plant a seed, or someone else, no matter.
I came to GSC and found out all this stuff before I left. What prompted me to search? It wasn't that something bad happend to me or someone made me mad. The opposite. We were actually better (in life) than ever before (no craig, no yelling...new home..) and yet, I still felt a calling to leave.
It all started when I took time to digest Prov. 3..........................................................
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Belle
Dear, Sweet, Bliss, I hope that you did not read my post as insinuating or even suggesting that you need to "do something" about them. :) It's the goodness of God that leads man to repentance and your life, love and example could be just what ends up being the straw that breaks that camel's back.
It sounded as if you weren't sure about Bob & Dottie covering and, thereby, allowing people's lives to be destroyed. I just wanted to let you know it's not just idle speculation. They've lied to you. That's all I was saying.
I would never tell someone what they need to do about relationships. I got enough of it when I was still "in", hiding my identity online and hoping against hope that my ex would "wake up" and leave that god forsaken group with me. Some people did not/would not/could not understand why I didn't just "leave the b@stard". Every situation and relationship is different and only those intimately involved know the true dynamics.
I do hope that they will come clean some day. Whether they do or not, they will have to answer to someone a lot more powerful and a lot more upset with what they've done with their lives than any of us here on earth.
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now I see
Belle, I'm not about to tell anyone what to do either, bliss brought it up, and I amsimply answering her/his question:
I see the love of God differently.
This dynamic is at work at lot out there, if you are not the recipient of the evil works or acts of the individual, then it is awfully hard to stand up for those to whom it's been done.  That is why ole vp got away with it like he did, and how so many were hurt and discarded over the years in TWI.  There was certainly no one to stand up for them and for what was right.  IMO, the Moneyhands are absolutely immersed in deception and they are the promoters of it, they are full of pride, as in the original sin, and are harbingers of lies and lascivious acts. Â
Bliss, I realize it is hard if you value the kind of relationship you have with them and want it to stay the way you want it. Â I couldn't do it, but you feel you need to protect the relationship, after all they might get mad and end it with you if you get too confrontational. Â Do what you will. Â
My approach is what the bible tells me to do about ministers who don't guard and protect the flock and are in the throws of sin and devilish acts. Â They are the ones that have accepted a "leadership" position, and that is why we are talking about it here.
Good luck to both of you.
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