Seems it always comes back to KNOWING HIM. Not "keys", not formulae, not having the "inside scoop" on super-spiritual info about someone when one has neither the care (the Shepherd's heart), nor the guts to help.
~Cinder
Amen Cinder!
That is what is so scary about twi involvement...the tendency even years after leaving to substitute knowledge, keys, principles, study for a relationship with him :(
I think that is why we have such a tough time fitting in anywhere after we leave.
TWI demoted Jesus. The Gospels were "not written to us;" same for the OT. However, Jesus is the subject of both gospels and OT. In TWI the epistles were magnified. However, God Magnified His Word. So much of what Jesus said and even Paul for that matter was directly quoted from the O.T. They knew it so well without having KJV or even a printing press. Come to think of it, they didn't even have PFAL, nevermind the AC. I was always ashamed to say I had never "seen" a devil spirit while I was involved. Now, I'm glad. I do wonder what the spirits in the gospels would be called today though, or the idols of the O.T. Like, have you ever cast out a gangsta spirit? How about a political spirit? Or morals? Seems once the light is shed, the darkness goes away....
I think they really don't. Most "doors" at least that I would want to walk through, sit unlocked to begin with. Keys and locks are used for the express purpose of restricting access. I really don't think that the God who created the universe, who has more than he ever would ever need or want, and supposedly desperately would want us to have it, isn't in the business of handing out a few keys to the shop to someone, to be sold at a rather hefty profit.
It sounds to me like some kind of foreign lotto scheme. "Cash the check, send me most of the money, and I'll release a fortune to your account".
If you have a super duper security system, multiple locks and keys, security codes, and a veritable fortress, all you're gonna do is to make it hard for yourself to get in..
generally I leave the door unlocked here. If they want antique radio junk or obsolete computers and video gear.. I'd rather them not break the door down to get them.. The door would cost more to replace..
So maybe the class is partly "Jones-Breathed", ya think?
Yes, I'll go along with that: partly Jones-breathed... HOWEVER you can't stop there if Jones got it from God.
I have often eloquently argued here (you just missed it) that Dr credited some of his teachers for getting revelation some of the time.
Dr also often claimed (you just missed it) that the main part of his teaching did not originate with him, but from numbers of his teachers. Dr's main claim was always that he PUT IT ALL TOGETHER. You just forgot.
johniam, do you have that paste of Dr's claim handy for this occasion?
TWI demoted Jesus. The Gospels were "not written to us;" same for the OT. However, Jesus is the subject of both gospels and OT. In TWI the epistles were magnified. However, God Magnified His Word. So much of what Jesus said and even Paul for that matter was directly quoted from the O.T. They knew it so well without having KJV or even a printing press. Come to think of it, they didn't even have PFAL, nevermind the AC. I was always ashamed to say I had never "seen" a devil spirit while I was involved. Now, I'm glad. I do wonder what the spirits in the gospels would be called today though, or the idols of the O.T. Like, have you ever cast out a gangsta spirit? How about a political spirit? Or morals? Seems once the light is shed, the darkness goes away....
We can argue a lot about this supposed demotion of Jesus. It's bunk and I can (and have) proved it here. It surely did not happen for me, but I clearly DID see the forces in operation within the ministry that were set to do just that. We just need to be clear that the fault was with the students (again) on this one... and not with the teacher.
But rather than argue, I'll agree with your last sentence, and that's why I red fonted it.
Seems once the light is shed, the darkness goes away....
In fact, that's exactly what the cartoon in post #86 is supposed to indicate. That's exactly what we were being taught in the early 80's to combat the baloney. It is a shame that so few paid attention to it and/or remember it.
It's kind of a parable, I guess, except it really happened.
When I was just a little whipper, I wanted to be a cowboy.
Maybe you did too. Lots of kids did back then.
More than anything, I wanted a Palamino pony.(That's that beautiful golden color you see in the movies.)
Trouble is, that's not too realistic for a kid in the inner city.
One day, as I was out front playing with the neighbor kid, I happened to look down toward the end of the block just in the nick of time to see something that was a beautiful golden color, turning the corner, moving away from us.
What do you suppose it was I saw?
Yep. You guessed it.
It was, of all things, a Palamino pony.
Just to be sure, I asked the neighbor if she had seen it too.
She was sure she had.
We set out immediately, at a full gallop, in pursuit of that buckin' bronco.
There was no time to consider where we would keep it or what we would feed it.
We were on a mission.
We were so excited, we didn't even notice the houses that became a blur as we flew past them.
Huffing and puffing, we made it to the end of the street and turned the corner.
And there it was, our Palamino pony.
He was still on the run, though, and we only caught a glimpse of that magnificent yellow tail streaming in the wind as it turned the next corner at full speed.
We only paused long enough to catch a quick gulp of air as we both looked at each other in a knowing fashion.
We knew we had to continue the pursuit.
Off we went, gasping for air and straining to run just a little bit faster in an effort to gain some distance.
At last, we made it to the next corner.
Again, we only caught a glimpse of that golden tail and his rear hooves as he toyed with our chase as if it were a game.
The scenario repeated itself until we were back where we started and the pony we wanted so badly had vanished into thin air.
So that's your big message? That's all the wisdom you can conjure? ...that life is an illusion? ...that God the Father wants to elude us? Sad.
That was/is twis claim we taught it you did not believe it,putting the fault on the student not the teacher.
It would be like buying a gm car well it is your fault it is junk.Huh! They made it
It has been proved over and over the material from pfal was used by someone else before
Did it work?For me it did.Was it all god breathed no.
I don't buy your analogy at all. Let's fix it up a little, knowing that all analogies fail somewhere when they are over stretched.
I buy a GM fixer-upper car, with a full and accurate disclosure of it's faults.
I drove it for months as-is, and it fails to perform and/or breaks down worse and/or gets me into an accident...
I blame the seller of the car.
Tell me what's wrong with me here? Do I have a legitimate complaint?
***
It doesn't take too many brains to see that if a partial or inaccurate body of knowledge is acted on, then unintended negative results should be EXPECTED. WordWolf has posted some famous quote to this effect here lately.
Over and over
time after time
I have shown here
to poster after poster
that crucial information
provided by the teacher
was either forgotten
or never absorbed
by us his students.
Hey! It happened to me too!
I just got smart enough to come back to PFAL and see what is written.
I had forgotten much of what was written in the collaterals.
I had allow to slip by me much crucial information that I needed to absorb.
I again discovered that learning is an exciting adventure.
There never was a golden pony, though it seemed amazingly real at the time.
The PFAL book is just another book among millions and millions of other books.
It has no particular significance in the grand scheme of history aside from the fact that most of the people who post here were affected by its contents.
Not only is it not "God-Breathed", it's not even a very good reference book for doing any kind of serious Biblical research.
Have you ever seen the movie "Being There" with Peter Sellers?
I suggest you rent it sometime and view it with an open mind.
If pfal is not God breathed nothing is?? That is insane and very sad mike. God doesn`t live in those documents....he is alive in US to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Waysider, I have in my possession an honest to God live palomino pony....no kidding :) As the kid who desperately wanted a pony all of her life....I get this parable in a physical as well as an alagorical (sp?) understanding.
Mike, once one becomes aquainted with the genuine, the illusion, or fake no longer holds any desire. Pfal, was a poor substitute.
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rascal
Amen Cinder!
That is what is so scary about twi involvement...the tendency even years after leaving to substitute knowledge, keys, principles, study for a relationship with him :(
I think that is why we have such a tough time fitting in anywhere after we leave.
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Mike
Keys unlock doors.
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irisheyes
TWI demoted Jesus. The Gospels were "not written to us;" same for the OT. However, Jesus is the subject of both gospels and OT. In TWI the epistles were magnified. However, God Magnified His Word. So much of what Jesus said and even Paul for that matter was directly quoted from the O.T. They knew it so well without having KJV or even a printing press. Come to think of it, they didn't even have PFAL, nevermind the AC. I was always ashamed to say I had never "seen" a devil spirit while I was involved. Now, I'm glad. I do wonder what the spirits in the gospels would be called today though, or the idols of the O.T. Like, have you ever cast out a gangsta spirit? How about a political spirit? Or morals? Seems once the light is shed, the darkness goes away....
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Ham
I think they really don't. Most "doors" at least that I would want to walk through, sit unlocked to begin with. Keys and locks are used for the express purpose of restricting access. I really don't think that the God who created the universe, who has more than he ever would ever need or want, and supposedly desperately would want us to have it, isn't in the business of handing out a few keys to the shop to someone, to be sold at a rather hefty profit.
It sounds to me like some kind of foreign lotto scheme. "Cash the check, send me most of the money, and I'll release a fortune to your account".
If you have a super duper security system, multiple locks and keys, security codes, and a veritable fortress, all you're gonna do is to make it hard for yourself to get in..
generally I leave the door unlocked here. If they want antique radio junk or obsolete computers and video gear.. I'd rather them not break the door down to get them.. The door would cost more to replace..
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waysider
And the inverse is--------
drum roll, please
-----------------Keys lock doors.
How's that for mathmatical accuracy?
pssst!--- Yo Mike!-----It ain't God-Breathed!
Here's a quote from PFAL:
"Fear is sand in the machinery of life."
When Wierwille said that, he was quoting Eli Stanley Jones, NOT GOD.
So maybe the class is partly "Jones-Breathed", ya think?
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Mike
johniam, do you have that paste of Dr's claim handy for this occasion?
We can argue a lot about this supposed demotion of Jesus. It's bunk and I can (and have) proved it here. It surely did not happen for me, but I clearly DID see the forces in operation within the ministry that were set to do just that. We just need to be clear that the fault was with the students (again) on this one... and not with the teacher.
But rather than argue, I'll agree with your last sentence, and that's why I red fonted it.
Seems once the light is shed, the darkness goes away....
In fact, that's exactly what the cartoon in post #86 is supposed to indicate. That's exactly what we were being taught in the early 80's to combat the baloney. It is a shame that so few paid attention to it and/or remember it.
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cman
Wierwille does not know in what context Eli was speaking this in.
I know how Wierwielle used it though.
He used as the opposite of Faith.
Which is not true.
He also used it to manipulate people.
And he used it to depict "devil spirit" operation.
All of which is garbage.
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frank123lol
That was/is twis claim we taught it you did not believe it,putting the fault on the student not the teacher.
It would be like buying a gm car well it is your fault it is junk.Huh! They made it
It has been proved over and over the material from pfal was used by someone else before
Did it work?For me it did.Was it all god breathed no.
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waysider
Hi Mike
I've got a little Stowwwry for you.
It's kind of a parable, I guess, except it really happened.
When I was just a little whipper, I wanted to be a cowboy.
Maybe you did too. Lots of kids did back then.
More than anything, I wanted a Palamino pony.(That's that beautiful golden color you see in the movies.)
Trouble is, that's not too realistic for a kid in the inner city.
One day, as I was out front playing with the neighbor kid, I happened to look down toward the end of the block just in the nick of time to see something that was a beautiful golden color, turning the corner, moving away from us.
What do you suppose it was I saw?
Yep. You guessed it.
It was, of all things, a Palamino pony.
Just to be sure, I asked the neighbor if she had seen it too.
She was sure she had.
We set out immediately, at a full gallop, in pursuit of that buckin' bronco.
There was no time to consider where we would keep it or what we would feed it.
We were on a mission.
We were so excited, we didn't even notice the houses that became a blur as we flew past them.
Huffing and puffing, we made it to the end of the street and turned the corner.
And there it was, our Palamino pony.
He was still on the run, though, and we only caught a glimpse of that magnificent yellow tail streaming in the wind as it turned the next corner at full speed.
We only paused long enough to catch a quick gulp of air as we both looked at each other in a knowing fashion.
We knew we had to continue the pursuit.
Off we went, gasping for air and straining to run just a little bit faster in an effort to gain some distance.
At last, we made it to the next corner.
Again, we only caught a glimpse of that golden tail and his rear hooves as he toyed with our chase as if it were a game.
The scenario repeated itself until we were back where we started and the pony we wanted so badly had vanished into thin air.
I hope you find your pony someday, Mike.
Really, I do.
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Mike
waysider,
So that's your big message? That's all the wisdom you can conjure? ...that life is an illusion? ...that God the Father wants to elude us? Sad.
I don't buy your analogy at all. Let's fix it up a little, knowing that all analogies fail somewhere when they are over stretched.
I buy a GM fixer-upper car, with a full and accurate disclosure of it's faults.
I drove it for months as-is, and it fails to perform and/or breaks down worse and/or gets me into an accident...
I blame the seller of the car.
Tell me what's wrong with me here? Do I have a legitimate complaint?
***
It doesn't take too many brains to see that if a partial or inaccurate body of knowledge is acted on, then unintended negative results should be EXPECTED. WordWolf has posted some famous quote to this effect here lately.
Over and over
time after time
I have shown here
to poster after poster
that crucial information
provided by the teacher
was either forgotten
or never absorbed
by us his students.
Hey! It happened to me too!
I just got smart enough to come back to PFAL and see what is written.
I had forgotten much of what was written in the collaterals.
I had allow to slip by me much crucial information that I needed to absorb.
I again discovered that learning is an exciting adventure.
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cman
I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I
yeah it's your doing
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frank123lol
The gm analogy was supposed to a new car as pfal was brand new.
I have learnt more away from so called pfal and its books.
It is a good thing to agree to disagree.
You have your beliefs I have mine.
So adios for now
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Mike
Ok, Frank.
I can agree to that.
I appreciate civility.
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rascal
Mike, you haven`t shown anybody anything other than an illusion.
Waysiders analogy was perfect.
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waysider
I'm sorry you missed the point, Mike.
It really has nothing to do with the idea of life being an illusion or that God wants to "elude" us.
>>>>>
Mike:
Over and over
time after time
I have shown here
to poster after poster
that crucial information
provided by the teacher
was either forgotten
or never absorbed
by us his students.
<<<<<
waysider:
Over and over
time after time
you have been shown here
by poster after poster
that crucial information
provided by "the teacher"
has not been forgotten
and was absorbed
by us his "students".
The golden pony was an illusion, Mike.
What do you think that might symbolize?
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Mike
I disagree.
I've shown that we forgot a lot and we never absorbed a lot.
What will be shown MUCH MORE dramatically to you
will be what FATHER shows you when you return to re-learn PFAL.
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waysider
Mike
There never was a golden pony, though it seemed amazingly real at the time.
The PFAL book is just another book among millions and millions of other books.
It has no particular significance in the grand scheme of history aside from the fact that most of the people who post here were affected by its contents.
Not only is it not "God-Breathed", it's not even a very good reference book for doing any kind of serious Biblical research.
Have you ever seen the movie "Being There" with Peter Sellers?
I suggest you rent it sometime and view it with an open mind.
Be sure to watch the credits at the end.
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Mike
Of course I have seen it. AND I "got" your phony story.
I simply REJECT it.
If PFAL is not God-breathed then nothing is, and the Father eludes us.
If you think you have ANY idea where and how to find God in your life, tell us the God-breathed documents from which you got such an idea.
I accept PFAL based on what I see in it.
You reject PFAL based on your NOT seeing it.
I'm riding your pony while you have given up ever even finding it!
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rascal
If pfal is not God breathed nothing is?? That is insane and very sad mike. God doesn`t live in those documents....he is alive in US to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Waysider, I have in my possession an honest to God live palomino pony....no kidding :) As the kid who desperately wanted a pony all of her life....I get this parable in a physical as well as an alagorical (sp?) understanding.
Mike, once one becomes aquainted with the genuine, the illusion, or fake no longer holds any desire. Pfal, was a poor substitute.
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rascal
In other words....Pssst Mike, look a little closer buddy .... that ain`t a pony your riding.
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waysider
Hi Mike
Just curious.
How can you be riding my pony if you think my story was phony?
ps. The story is true. It's the pony that is fake.
But, of course, you probably figured that out when you tried to saddle up.
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WordWolf
And a Muslim would say
"If the Koran is not God-breathed then nothing is, and the Father eludes us."
And a Christian Scientist would say
"If Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures is not God-breathed then nothing is, and the Father eludes us."
And a Mormon would say
"If the Book of Mormon is not God-breathed then nothing is, and the Father eludes us."
And so on.
None of those statements, no matter how glibly tossed off, has ANY EFFECT on any book.
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doojable
No Mike... YOU are the one that seems to think that God the Father wants to elude us.
If the doors are locked -then WHO locked them?
You only need keys to unlock a door if the person in charge of that door wants to keep certain folks out. If the hand you the keys you can get in.
Are saying that God only wants certain folks in and the rest are left out in the cold?
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waysider
I just now got it.
I must be still runnin' slow 'cause of the time change thing.
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