I totally get what you are saying. To a large extent TWI gave me a sense of grounding I had not experienced before and it was good, for the most part, until our first son was born. He was sick and we were blamed for his illness through negative believing and inadequate abundant sharing. It kinda went downhill from there and I had fewer good experiences until we finally left. We didn't know that the sex stuff was a top-down problem and kept ourselves isolated as possible from corp people. After TWI we went right into CES, and I found the open talk to be refreshing. Momentus was the final blow for our involvement there. We did continue to partner because I had worked as a volunteer and contractor for CES, and I thought that a lot of what was written in the early days was good. As CES continued to develop its theology, I started seeing more of the same arrogance that crippled TWI. Finally I quit giving my time and they claimed they couldn't afford me, so we parted ways. The partnership money stopped shortly thereafter. If what was going on at CES's home office was anything like what was going on at HQ and the various campuses, I don't understand how anyone in his or her right mind could stick around. The emotional and verbal abuse towards women was intolerable, and the "us against them" mentality kept getting more pronounced. I didn't feel that way. I was happily going to a Presbyterian church and feeling normal for probably the first time in my adult life.
I'm thinking that VP was very careful about who he "shared with." Perhaps all the more so since he was caught before, if reports of his being booted from the denomination are true. In the heyday of TWI, there were many women to choose from, and sadly, he chose those most vulnerable at that time.
His modus operandi seemed to go like this:
Look for a pretty young woman -- under-18 is okay
Check her background for vulnerabilities -- if she's Corps, her "From Birth to the Corps" should provide plenty of information.
Do something provocative, but defensible, and see how she reacts
Give her a privilege that will provide an opportunity for her to be alone with you
Excie, he was a predator, pure and simple. He knew what to look for - in the person's body language, actions - like like gay people have what they call "gaydar." They can tell if someone's gay because they know what to look for. For VP, I also don't believe it was about sex. He was a misogynist - he did not like, and had no respect for women. The sex was about domination, power, and humiliation. That's what gratified him. The only exception I ever saw with him was if a woman was older and intelligent. If he felt she was very smart, he had a grudging respect. I remember before a meeting one niight on staff, he casually went on about El*** Whi**** - what a smart, smart woman she was, how there were very few like her in TWI, etc. That is the only time I ever heard him speak nicely of one. The younger women he just considered his toys to dominate. Then he passed them on.
I think he also knew who not to mess with. My relative's husband who was a region leader, early corps, was never involved. He could not believe VP would do something like that. I'm not surprised Socks was never "included" in the inner circle. VP wasn't stupid in that way, I really believe he knew which married men would tolerate it and which wouldn't. He probably did a few subtle "tests" where the male never even knew he was being tested.
It really was a total "lockbox," inner circle type thing. It wasn't until after he died people felt more freer to break the confidence they had sworn with an oath to him they'd never repeat.
I think he also knew who not to mess with. My relative's husband who was a region leader, early corps, was never involved. He could not believe VP would do something like that. I'm not surprised Socks was never "included" in the inner circle. VP wasn't stupid in that way, I really believe he knew which married men would tolerate it and which wouldn't. He probably did a few subtle "tests" where the male never even knew he was being tested.
I completely agree, and I think to some extent it still happens today... These examples only happened a couple of years ago while visiting HQ. HA always had a way of making me feel uncomfortable whenever he was around - just like he was a dirty old man or something (Oh, if only I had known the things I know now, I would have run away screaming!). Just too hands on when he hugged you, and the way he looked at me was nasty... until one day he went too far in front of my husband, who told him where he could go. HA just laughed like it was nothing.
But he never came at me inappropriately again...
And another friend of mine had a WC guy feel her up at a meeting - then told her she was too uptight and there was nothing wrong with it... she told her husband, he complained. That guy never went near her again.
It's really not about that. It's about these men using the penis as a weapon. These women didn't necessarily find either of them attractive or within their standards of the kind of man to go for. And don't forget... they were brainwashed into thinking that they were serving God by meeting the Man'O'God's needs.
--------------------
excathedra
And THAT, Mark, is what is so heartbreaking.
...
But don't tell my heart
My achy breaky heart
I just don't think he'd understand
And if you tell my heart
My achy breaky heart
He might blow up and kill this man.
(Billy Ray Cyrus)
Kill the man?
Well - at least let us praise God that we can finally tear his wings off!
I must admit, it has been very difficult for me to believe people in close proximity to wierwille didn't see more
but I'm guessing we were all part of a cult
and least that's how i perceive i t
"we were all part of a cult"...I think that says it all. I have recollections of doing bless patrol at Emporia while Vic and his motorcoach were visiting...watching a young lady enter the coach and then sometime later exit the coach and walk away...even though it was well after midnight, sexual hanky panky NEVER ENTERED MY MIND...afterall, he was the mog.
"we were all part of a cult"...I think that says it all. I have recollections of doing bless patrol at Emporia while Vic and his motorcoach were visiting...watching a young lady enter the coach and then sometime later exit the coach and walk away...even though it was well after midnight, sexual hanky panky NEVER ENTERED MY MIND...afterall, he was the mog"
Ditto!
One summer I lived in the "Upper Room" facing the courtyard and saw women come and go at a pretty good clip. Never did it occur to me that hanky panky was going on. Suspension of belief to the extreme.
I'm thinking that VP was very careful about who he "shared with." Perhaps all the more so since he was caught before, if reports of his being booted from the denomination are true. In the heyday of TWI, there were many women to choose from, and sadly, he chose those most vulnerable at that time.
His modus operandi seemed to go like this:
Look for a pretty young woman -- under-18 is okay
Check her background for vulnerabilities -- if she's Corps, her "From Birth to the Corps" should provide plenty of information.
Do something provocative, but defensible, and see how she reacts
Give her a privilege that will provide an opportunity for her to be alone with you
Interesting discussion, shazdancer. Brings back a memory from first year in residence that always puzzled me. At the time it really pi@@ed me off. I was in the BC's twig that block and the BCs happened to be a married couple. First of all, I don't believe the wife was involved in a swinging lifestyle, but then, I never suspected any of them...
I asked the wife a question one day and she said I had to talk to _____ about that. So, the next day, she called me over between classes and told me it was ok for me to talk to him then. A lot of people were milling around and ____ called me over and said his wife told him I wanted to talk. Quite frankly, I was wondering what the big deal was about and didn't particularly like or respect him--partly because he came across as not very bright. So, I went into it not really needing or wanting his advice, but kinda had to since I'd asked wifey the day before. She was intelligent, caring, and it had entered my mind that they were BCs because of her, not him.
The BC guy called me over and said he'd heard I wanted to talk. I told him it was nothing that important and I thought I already had my answer, but thanked him for his concern. I can't remember what the question was because we ended up having an argument, the result of which I had to appear before one of the Corps Coordinators.
What was my infraction? BC guy insisted that I come closer and sit on his lap while we talked. I told him I no longer needed to talk, but he became irate when I refused to sit in his lap and talk anyway. When he continued to insist using a fake "caring" voice and wanted to know why I wouldn't do it, I said it wasn't appropriate to sit in a married man's lap. His wife was standing right there, and I could have misread her body language, but sensed that she agreed with me and was glad I'd refused his advances. That was one time my radar was loud and clear and there was nothing he could say to talk me into it.
Later that day, wifey appeared to tell me I had to talk to PP about what had happened??????? wtf was up with that? Anyway, next day BC guy was there and PP said from what he understood I didn't want to sit in BCs lap so he just shrugged with a funny look on his face and said he supposed I just didn't want to sit in BCs lap....and that was it.
At the time, I just thought it was about his "I'm the ldr and you'll do what I say" attitude, but the lap business always puzzled me.
Was he pimping, or was he just plain stupid?
I did talk about an unhappy family life growing up in my autobiography, but there was never any sexual abuse. Could the powers that were have thought I was leaving that part out and decided to give me a try anyway?
Because many are: 1) weak, 2) sick, 3) poor, 4) uncertain, 5) striving, 6) factious, 7) full of fear, 8) undidciplined, and 9) undedicated.
To renew the mind we must:
1) Find the renewed mind principles in "The Word"
2) Study those men who have manifested a renewed mind
Page 5
By continually feeding our minds on "God's Word" and practicing "The Word" in our minds, we become transformed (transfigured) by the renewing of our minds because our knowledge, thoughts, and habits have been conditioned. As this new material displaces the old, a new understanding is formed which in turn purifies the heart and builds additional strength to believe and get results.
page 12
Your will determines your mind-set-----If your wrong attitude gives you pain, stop thinking about it----WE have to take our mind by our act of will and control it----
Bishop Pillai talked to his mind: "Mind, now you stop thinking that way. Think this way".
We need to learn to renew our mind. Make it behave.----Think about God----Repeat verses over and over
Dealing With The Adversary
Page 1
Satan is constantly ready with endless suggestions for the thought life which will influence the mind of the believer.
WHEN WE PERMIT SATAN TO FEED SUGGESTIONS INTO OUR MINDS, OUR SPIRITUAL GROWTH STAGNATES. TO HAVE VICTORY WE MUST KNOW "GOD"S WORD".
Page 6
The way to capture any man in anything is to get him to think like you want him to think. IDEAS CAPTURE MEN NOT WEAPONS. If we win a man's thinking in his mind, if we capture his thoughts, we can indicate and control his actions.
This thread has raised some questions in my mind as well. Incidents come back that you dismiss at the time, now have a more ominous connotation.
When our ordained tc`s wife left him. I felt so bad for him. We were young, not long married, my spouse and I would go and help him any way we could. I grieved for his suffering and pain, we helped him with his house work, wanting to do anything to alleviate his burden.
One thing he did, would be to talk about how in need he was of *relief* ... It came up kind of often. It seems like when I expressed my wish to help....and I can`t remember my husband was ever in the room when he did this. Not having been indoctrinated, it never ever dawned on me that he could seek his relief with anyone other than his wife. Lol..I just patted him on the arm and told him how sorry I was.
It was always wierd, but then I thought that it was a measure of his confidence in my spirituality that he felt he could be candid and discuss these things.
I wonder now, in reading these threads...especially after Krys` account ....that since I was corpes spouse, if I was supposed to pick up on these not so subtle hints.
The fellow was never came out and said *do me* so maybe I AM just misconstruing an innocent man`s suffering.
I think in the real world that is considered manipulation .
I have no desire to control a persons mind or actions.
DO NOT THINK not at all.
I believe God wants us to think about our choices and think everyday every moment we are alive to think think think , we tell our children think about what your doing , we tell our employee's we want one another to use their brains to think.
It is a choice to accept Jesus christ as your Saviour it is a Choice to accept the gospel as truth.
CHOICE INVOLES thinking about what you can do or not.
i think that renewed mind page is screwed up.
I remember a BC wife TY say we may not be "of" this world but we sure live in it, during the renewed mind class.
so true I dare anyone to go to their employer wife child teacher or any public person not involved in the way and say NO NO cant think THAT it isnt renewing my mind to what the word says.
no wonder the isolation grew so deep.
Did Jesus say to sinners change your mind do not think? he asked them to "sin no more" in other words change behaviours that hurt them so they could get along better in the world. He didnt say do not think about anything other than the scripture, cant find the bathroom? do not think just do not think believe the scripture and you will never have to pee again .
The way to capture any man in anything is to get him to think like you want him to think. IDEAS CAPTURE MEN NOT WEAPONS. If we win a man's thinking in his mind, if we capture his thoughts, we can indicate and control his actions.
Wow... This is exactly what they did to us, isn't it?
Hey Waysider: I got over 700 bucks for my Way materials on ebay a number of years back.... I had some cool items, but mostly just the Blue Book, etc. WOW pins, that kind of thing.
What was my infraction? BC guy insisted that I come closer and sit on his lap while we talked. I told him I no longer needed to talk, but he became irate when I refused to sit in his lap and talk anyway. When he continued to insist using a fake "caring" voice and wanted to know why I wouldn't do it, I said it wasn't appropriate to sit in a married man's lap. His wife was standing right there, and I could have misread her body language, but sensed that she agreed with me and was glad I'd refused his advances. That was one time my radar was loud and clear and there was nothing he could say to talk me into it.
I did talk about an unhappy family life growing up in my autobiography, but there was never any sexual abuse. Could the powers that were have thought I was leaving that part out and decided to give me a try anyway?
I think you have touched on a part of rape that many people don't understand. It's not about sex, it's about control.
I asked the wife a question one day and she said I had to talk to _____ about that. So, the next day, she called me over between classes and told me it was ok for me to talk to him then. A lot of people were milling around and ____ called me over and said his wife told him I wanted to talk. Quite frankly, I was wondering what the big deal was about and didn't particularly like or respect him--partly because he came across as not very bright. So, I went into it not really needing or wanting his advice, but kinda had to since I'd asked wifey the day before. She was intelligent, caring, and it had entered my mind that they were BCs because of her, not him.
What was my infraction? BC guy insisted that I come closer and sit on his lap while we talked. I told him I no longer needed to talk, but he became irate when I refused to sit in his lap and talk anyway. When he continued to insist using a fake "caring" voice and wanted to know why I wouldn't do it, I said it wasn't appropriate to sit in a married man's lap. His wife was standing right there, and I could have misread her body language, but sensed that she agreed with me and was glad I'd refused his advances. That was one time my radar was loud and clear and there was nothing he could say to talk me into it.
Later that day, wifey appeared to tell me I had to talk to PP about what had happened??????? wtf was up with that? Anyway, next day BC guy was there and PP said from what he understood I didn't want to sit in BCs lap so he just shrugged with a funny look on his face and said he supposed I just didn't want to sit in BCs lap....and that was it.
At the time, I just thought it was about his "I'm the ldr and you'll do what I say" attitude, but the lap business always puzzled me.
Was he pimping, or was he just plain stupid?
WB- I think the control issue may not have been entirely about you. You were certainly involved - a *bonus* if you will in his mind. I think it's entirely possible that he was trying to use you to control his wife and put her in her place.
How stupid would that have looked for an adult woman to sit in a man's lap for "counseling" and in a public place on top of that????
Yes, he did try to bully me into doing it--something like he was my leadah and the right thing for me to do was, oh gosh, I think he used the submit word. How funny is that?
He really wanted me to get heat over that from the CC, but I think it backfired on him.
So, dooj, you think he was jealous because I asked his wife's advice about something and not his?
I was happy when she divorced his azz couple yrs. later. He was a creep.
Dooj - reminds me of a dog trying to be the pack leader. Sniff their butts, make yourself big, stalk around like you own everything... That'll teach her who's boss!
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geisha779
The letter of Assumptions--by St. John the divine of Indiana This is what happens when people isolate themselves from the Christian community at large. No accountibility. John, get out there and mee
geisha779
Word Wolf--That. . . was. . . an. . . AWESOME read!! Thank-you for that effort. Astute very astute!
Tzaia
Socks,
I totally get what you are saying. To a large extent TWI gave me a sense of grounding I had not experienced before and it was good, for the most part, until our first son was born. He was sick and we were blamed for his illness through negative believing and inadequate abundant sharing. It kinda went downhill from there and I had fewer good experiences until we finally left. We didn't know that the sex stuff was a top-down problem and kept ourselves isolated as possible from corp people. After TWI we went right into CES, and I found the open talk to be refreshing. Momentus was the final blow for our involvement there. We did continue to partner because I had worked as a volunteer and contractor for CES, and I thought that a lot of what was written in the early days was good. As CES continued to develop its theology, I started seeing more of the same arrogance that crippled TWI. Finally I quit giving my time and they claimed they couldn't afford me, so we parted ways. The partnership money stopped shortly thereafter. If what was going on at CES's home office was anything like what was going on at HQ and the various campuses, I don't understand how anyone in his or her right mind could stick around. The emotional and verbal abuse towards women was intolerable, and the "us against them" mentality kept getting more pronounced. I didn't feel that way. I was happily going to a Presbyterian church and feeling normal for probably the first time in my adult life.
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excathedra
Interesting TZ
You too, socks, and thank you for the reply.
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excathedra
I must admit, it has been very difficult for me to believe people in close proximity to wierwille didn't see more
but I'm guessing we were all part of a cult
and least that's how i perceive i t
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shazdancer
I'm thinking that VP was very careful about who he "shared with." Perhaps all the more so since he was caught before, if reports of his being booted from the denomination are true. In the heyday of TWI, there were many women to choose from, and sadly, he chose those most vulnerable at that time.
His modus operandi seemed to go like this:
- Look for a pretty young woman -- under-18 is okay
- Check her background for vulnerabilities -- if she's Corps, her "From Birth to the Corps" should provide plenty of information.
- Do something provocative, but defensible, and see how she reacts
- Give her a privilege that will provide an opportunity for her to be alone with you
Edited by shazdancerLink to comment
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Sunesis
Excie, he was a predator, pure and simple. He knew what to look for - in the person's body language, actions - like like gay people have what they call "gaydar." They can tell if someone's gay because they know what to look for. For VP, I also don't believe it was about sex. He was a misogynist - he did not like, and had no respect for women. The sex was about domination, power, and humiliation. That's what gratified him. The only exception I ever saw with him was if a woman was older and intelligent. If he felt she was very smart, he had a grudging respect. I remember before a meeting one niight on staff, he casually went on about El*** Whi**** - what a smart, smart woman she was, how there were very few like her in TWI, etc. That is the only time I ever heard him speak nicely of one. The younger women he just considered his toys to dominate. Then he passed them on.
I think he also knew who not to mess with. My relative's husband who was a region leader, early corps, was never involved. He could not believe VP would do something like that. I'm not surprised Socks was never "included" in the inner circle. VP wasn't stupid in that way, I really believe he knew which married men would tolerate it and which wouldn't. He probably did a few subtle "tests" where the male never even knew he was being tested.
It really was a total "lockbox," inner circle type thing. It wasn't until after he died people felt more freer to break the confidence they had sworn with an oath to him they'd never repeat.
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JavaJane
I completely agree, and I think to some extent it still happens today... These examples only happened a couple of years ago while visiting HQ. HA always had a way of making me feel uncomfortable whenever he was around - just like he was a dirty old man or something (Oh, if only I had known the things I know now, I would have run away screaming!). Just too hands on when he hugged you, and the way he looked at me was nasty... until one day he went too far in front of my husband, who told him where he could go. HA just laughed like it was nothing.
But he never came at me inappropriately again...
And another friend of mine had a WC guy feel her up at a meeting - then told her she was too uptight and there was nothing wrong with it... she told her husband, he complained. That guy never went near her again.
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What The Hey
...
But don't tell my heart
My achy breaky heart
I just don't think he'd understand
And if you tell my heart
My achy breaky heart
He might blow up and kill this man.
(Billy Ray Cyrus)
Kill the man?
Well - at least let us praise God that we can finally tear his wings off!
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anotherDan
thanks for sharing, Sockmeister
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socks
You're welcome, ADan. Love offerings are now being received. The Bank is open. :)
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GrouchoMarxJr
"we were all part of a cult"...I think that says it all. I have recollections of doing bless patrol at Emporia while Vic and his motorcoach were visiting...watching a young lady enter the coach and then sometime later exit the coach and walk away...even though it was well after midnight, sexual hanky panky NEVER ENTERED MY MIND...afterall, he was the mog.
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Yanagisawa
"we were all part of a cult"...I think that says it all. I have recollections of doing bless patrol at Emporia while Vic and his motorcoach were visiting...watching a young lady enter the coach and then sometime later exit the coach and walk away...even though it was well after midnight, sexual hanky panky NEVER ENTERED MY MIND...afterall, he was the mog"
Ditto!
One summer I lived in the "Upper Room" facing the courtyard and saw women come and go at a pretty good clip. Never did it occur to me that hanky panky was going on. Suspension of belief to the extreme.
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waterbuffalo
Interesting discussion, shazdancer. Brings back a memory from first year in residence that always puzzled me. At the time it really pi@@ed me off. I was in the BC's twig that block and the BCs happened to be a married couple. First of all, I don't believe the wife was involved in a swinging lifestyle, but then, I never suspected any of them...
I asked the wife a question one day and she said I had to talk to _____ about that. So, the next day, she called me over between classes and told me it was ok for me to talk to him then. A lot of people were milling around and ____ called me over and said his wife told him I wanted to talk. Quite frankly, I was wondering what the big deal was about and didn't particularly like or respect him--partly because he came across as not very bright. So, I went into it not really needing or wanting his advice, but kinda had to since I'd asked wifey the day before. She was intelligent, caring, and it had entered my mind that they were BCs because of her, not him.
The BC guy called me over and said he'd heard I wanted to talk. I told him it was nothing that important and I thought I already had my answer, but thanked him for his concern. I can't remember what the question was because we ended up having an argument, the result of which I had to appear before one of the Corps Coordinators.
What was my infraction? BC guy insisted that I come closer and sit on his lap while we talked. I told him I no longer needed to talk, but he became irate when I refused to sit in his lap and talk anyway. When he continued to insist using a fake "caring" voice and wanted to know why I wouldn't do it, I said it wasn't appropriate to sit in a married man's lap. His wife was standing right there, and I could have misread her body language, but sensed that she agreed with me and was glad I'd refused his advances. That was one time my radar was loud and clear and there was nothing he could say to talk me into it.
Later that day, wifey appeared to tell me I had to talk to PP about what had happened??????? wtf was up with that? Anyway, next day BC guy was there and PP said from what he understood I didn't want to sit in BCs lap so he just shrugged with a funny look on his face and said he supposed I just didn't want to sit in BCs lap....and that was it.
At the time, I just thought it was about his "I'm the ldr and you'll do what I say" attitude, but the lap business always puzzled me.
Was he pimping, or was he just plain stupid?
I did talk about an unhappy family life growing up in my autobiography, but there was never any sexual abuse. Could the powers that were have thought I was leaving that part out and decided to give me a try anyway?
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waysider
PFAL/Session #7
Page 31
THE FALL
Genesis 2:16,17----Genesis 3: 1-6
1. Questions the integrity of "The Word".
2. Response--By Considering
3. Omits a word
4. Adds a word
5. Changes A word
GOD-ye shall surely die
SATAN-ye shall not surely die
---------------------------------------------------------
Renewed Mind
Page 1
Why should we renew our minds?
Because many are: 1) weak, 2) sick, 3) poor, 4) uncertain, 5) striving, 6) factious, 7) full of fear, 8) undidciplined, and 9) undedicated.
To renew the mind we must:
1) Find the renewed mind principles in "The Word"
2) Study those men who have manifested a renewed mind
Page 5
By continually feeding our minds on "God's Word" and practicing "The Word" in our minds, we become transformed (transfigured) by the renewing of our minds because our knowledge, thoughts, and habits have been conditioned. As this new material displaces the old, a new understanding is formed which in turn purifies the heart and builds additional strength to believe and get results.
page 12
Your will determines your mind-set-----If your wrong attitude gives you pain, stop thinking about it----WE have to take our mind by our act of will and control it----
Bishop Pillai talked to his mind: "Mind, now you stop thinking that way. Think this way".
We need to learn to renew our mind. Make it behave.----Think about God----Repeat verses over and over
Dealing With The Adversary
Page 1
Satan is constantly ready with endless suggestions for the thought life which will influence the mind of the believer.
WHEN WE PERMIT SATAN TO FEED SUGGESTIONS INTO OUR MINDS, OUR SPIRITUAL GROWTH STAGNATES. TO HAVE VICTORY WE MUST KNOW "GOD"S WORD".
Page 6
The way to capture any man in anything is to get him to think like you want him to think. IDEAS CAPTURE MEN NOT WEAPONS. If we win a man's thinking in his mind, if we capture his thoughts, we can indicate and control his actions.
---------------------------------------------------------
We ate a steady diet of this stuff ----24/7/365
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rascal
This thread has raised some questions in my mind as well. Incidents come back that you dismiss at the time, now have a more ominous connotation.
When our ordained tc`s wife left him. I felt so bad for him. We were young, not long married, my spouse and I would go and help him any way we could. I grieved for his suffering and pain, we helped him with his house work, wanting to do anything to alleviate his burden.
One thing he did, would be to talk about how in need he was of *relief* ... It came up kind of often. It seems like when I expressed my wish to help....and I can`t remember my husband was ever in the room when he did this. Not having been indoctrinated, it never ever dawned on me that he could seek his relief with anyone other than his wife. Lol..I just patted him on the arm and told him how sorry I was.
It was always wierd, but then I thought that it was a measure of his confidence in my spirituality that he felt he could be candid and discuss these things.
I wonder now, in reading these threads...especially after Krys` account ....that since I was corpes spouse, if I was supposed to pick up on these not so subtle hints.
The fellow was never came out and said *do me* so maybe I AM just misconstruing an innocent man`s suffering.
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pond
wow waysider.
I think in the real world that is considered manipulation .
I have no desire to control a persons mind or actions.
DO NOT THINK not at all.
I believe God wants us to think about our choices and think everyday every moment we are alive to think think think , we tell our children think about what your doing , we tell our employee's we want one another to use their brains to think.
It is a choice to accept Jesus christ as your Saviour it is a Choice to accept the gospel as truth.
CHOICE INVOLES thinking about what you can do or not.
i think that renewed mind page is screwed up.
I remember a BC wife TY say we may not be "of" this world but we sure live in it, during the renewed mind class.
so true I dare anyone to go to their employer wife child teacher or any public person not involved in the way and say NO NO cant think THAT it isnt renewing my mind to what the word says.
no wonder the isolation grew so deep.
Did Jesus say to sinners change your mind do not think? he asked them to "sin no more" in other words change behaviours that hurt them so they could get along better in the world. He didnt say do not think about anything other than the scripture, cant find the bathroom? do not think just do not think believe the scripture and you will never have to pee again .
that is how some thought in the way.
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JavaJane
Wow... This is exactly what they did to us, isn't it?
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anotherDan
Hey Waysider: I got over 700 bucks for my Way materials on ebay a number of years back.... I had some cool items, but mostly just the Blue Book, etc. WOW pins, that kind of thing.
I love you, man!
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waysider
I think you have touched on a part of rape that many people don't understand. It's not about sex, it's about control.
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Mark Clarke
It's amazing and at the same time sad how many people don't get that, no matter how many times it's been said.
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doojable
WB- I think the control issue may not have been entirely about you. You were certainly involved - a *bonus* if you will in his mind. I think it's entirely possible that he was trying to use you to control his wife and put her in her place.
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waterbuffalo
Agreed waysider, mc, and dooj.
How stupid would that have looked for an adult woman to sit in a man's lap for "counseling" and in a public place on top of that????
Yes, he did try to bully me into doing it--something like he was my leadah and the right thing for me to do was, oh gosh, I think he used the submit word. How funny is that?
He really wanted me to get heat over that from the CC, but I think it backfired on him.
So, dooj, you think he was jealous because I asked his wife's advice about something and not his?
I was happy when she divorced his azz couple yrs. later. He was a creep.
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doojable
WB - It's hard to say without being there and knowing the mook.
My first impression of that scenario is that he knew she was more capable than he, so he tried to gain respect by overpowering her anyway he could.
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JavaJane
Dooj - reminds me of a dog trying to be the pack leader. Sniff their butts, make yourself big, stalk around like you own everything... That'll teach her who's boss!
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waterbuffalo
Coulda been. It was definitely a control issue.
I'm usually sad when hearing people divorce, but not when she got away from him.
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