The Way, It Was

[anotherDan]

Rhino, he would trade "Eli, eli, why has thou forsaken me?" at Easter time.

[WhiteDove]

This insertion in Mrs. W's book shows how, by 1996, this information is "sanitized" after the fact.........because vp wierwille was STILL on the payroll of the Van Wert Church when this "board meeting" was held. HOW CONVENIENT......that wierwille stays on the church payroll while *building his ministry.*

Wierwille stole B.G. Leonard's foundational class in 1953......and wierwille is supposedly "building his ministry since 1942" while he stays on the church payroll.

Gee........where was wierwille's BELIEVING?????????????

Since wierwille LEFT the church payroll in 1957......"by this time" wierwille's ministry was like Two Years Old.

Not sure why you think anything was sanitized the date of his resigination is listed in the book along with the letter copyof Augest 7th 1957 Nothing was hidden, anyone that can add can figure out the dates. What does this sidebar have to do with the supposed believing in the Trinity in 1968? Nothing that I can see, or are you just trying to change the direction of things due to the facts not agreeing with the personal testimony? And so his ministry was about 2 years old what again does this have to do with the subject?

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

So in June 1956, Wierwille believed in the trinity and deity of Jesus Christ, but by April of 1959 both are rejected. Interesting, was it Lamsa and Leonard that influenced this, and why did many people associated with TWI receive such shock about JCING when it came out in 1975? Was this one of Wierwille's secrets that he hinted to Elena Scott Whiteside in TW:LIL?

[Mark Clarke]

So in June 1956, Wierwille believed in the trinity and deity of Jesus Christ, but by April of 1959 both are rejected. Interesting, was it Lamsa and Leonard that influenced this, and why did many people associated with TWI receive such shock about JCING when it came out in 1975? Was this one of Wierwille's secrets that he hinted to Elena Scott Whiteside in TW:LIL?

The people associated with TWI weren't shocked, as they had been hearing teaching about it for a number of years. It was no secret, as witnessed by the writings mentioned above, and by the stuff covered in PFAL. It was people who weren't associated with TWI, or at least those who were only minimally involved, that were shocked. The teaching was now set forth in more detail, and presented in what TWI considered a more organized way. Also the title was rather blunt and "in your face" so it got a lot more attention.

[WhiteDove]

I agree with Mark, The people associated with TWI weren't shocked, I do think that some people wondered if being so in your face was the best way to get the point across.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Also the title was rather blunt and "in your face" so it got a lot more attention.

According to Vic, he was going to give it a different name...but one of his children suggested "JCING"...Wierwille liked it because it WAS in your face and confrontational.

This was Vic's big chance to seperate and isolate his little following from mainstream Christianity. Vic was a big mog in a little pond and he didn't want anyone to step on his "authority". Thus, JCING...Wierwille fostered the us versus them mentality that pitted wayfers against other Christians. His organization was the "one true church" and he was the pope from NewKnoxville. I believe that he deliberately promoted this controversial doctrine in order to facilitate his plans to keep twi seperate from any other Christian organizations...Vic didn't want to unify Christians...he wanted everyone to quit their churches and join HIS...afterall, he was the mog for his day and time...

...and I'm not sure if it made any difference to him WHAT the book was about...as long as it was controversial and would seperate his group from other groups...it could just as well have been "Eve was a lesbian"...Naw, on second thought...nobody is THAT stupid.

[T-Bone]

According to Vic, he was going to give it a different name...but one of his children suggested "JCING"...Wierwille liked it because it WAS in your face and confrontational.

This was Vic's big chance to seperate and isolate his little following from mainstream Christianity. Vic was a big mog in a little pond and he didn't want anyone to step on his "authority". Thus, JCING...Wierwille fostered the us versus them mentality that pitted wayfers against other Christians. His organization was the "one true church" and he was the pope from NewKnoxville. I believe that he deliberately promoted this controversial doctrine in order to facilitate his plans to keep twi seperate from any other Christian organizations...Vic didn't want to unify Christians...he wanted everyone to quit their churches and join HIS...afterall, he was the mog for his day and time...

...and I'm not sure if it made any difference to him WHAT the book was about...as long as it was controversial and would seperate his group from other groups...it could just as well have been "Eve was a lesbian"...Naw, on second thought...nobody is THAT stupid.

Excellent points, Groucho! vp's main ploy was always to draw a sharp line of distinction between him and mainstream Christianity. Even from the beginning in PFAL - with his use of 4 crucified, the cry of triumph, the day Jesus died - he was emphasizing what made him so different from everyone else - and that it was over matters of the utmost importance to boot! It portrayed him as very important and absolutely necessary in one's quest for truth. What was really meant by the PFAL "benefit" Enables you to seperate truth from error on the back of the Green Card, was that "smart" graduates of the class were followers who separated themselves from all other Christian organizations according to the polarizing issues of vp... As I said on another thread, the Blue Book should have been titled vp Tells Me So.

Edited August 12, 2008 by T-Bone

[rhino]

It is interesting to look at how it developed for vp ... he had the church paycheck till 1956. I'm guessing there were always people disgruntled with major denominations, it is just the nature of the beast. Maybe VP was looking more to attract new customers to some alternative ideas, than to keep his membership isolated, though that would also happen.

Also with denominations stuck with their traditional beliefs, he could poke away at them since he had no doctrine that he was tied to like the churches did. Just from a marketing view, he was agile while the denominations were stuck with their product. So of course he wouldn't offer what they did.

Many were probably attracted to anything different, they wanted CHANGE. I also wonder if the ministry was less dogmatic early on ... surely it was.

When did he first publicly tell of the snow on the gas pumps? Somehow I doubt he could tell that story while he was still taking a paycheck from the church. But once he left, he needed something (or several things) to mark him as a bonified MOG. He does mention those other men he stole from, but HE was THE ONE that put it all together ...

Wikipedia says

In 1942, after only a year as an ordained minister, Wierwille tells the story that he was already frustrated with a lack of results and was ready to “chuck it all”. He claimed God spoke to him audibly that Fall, telling him that God would teach Wierwille “The Word like it hadn't been known since the First Century” if he would teach it to others.

In the early seventies, Wierwille added to this account, saying that God confirmed this promise by making it snow on an otherwise clear day.

There is, however, no official meteorological record of snow falling on this day

Maybe that is the mark of a cult, when the MOG claims he is THE anointed one for our time. JAL is perhaps just catching on that THAT is an an important part of the hook, (as I think Groucho called it)

[waterbuffalo]

Also with denominations stuck with their traditional beliefs, he could poke away at them since he had no doctrine that he was tied to like the churches did. Just from a marketing view, he was agile while the denominations were stuck with their product. So of course he wouldn't offer what they did.

Many were probably attracted to anything different, they wanted CHANGE. I also wonder if the ministry was less dogmatic early on ... surely it was.

This reminds me of a man who was a member of the church I grew up in. Every Sunday, he always sat on the far left side of the second to front pew on the left side of the church. And, every Sunday, he sat there and read his Sunday newspaper until he was finished.

LOL. Yes, I was looking for something different.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program...

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

Question still is if Wierwille was trinitarian in June 1956(obviously still E&R on payroll) and by April of 1959 rejects it(fired or resigned under pressure from newly formed UCC), what changed his and early TWI's mind? or have I answered my own question(Leonard and Lamsa maybe)?

[GeorgeStGeorge]

Vic didn't want to unify Christians...he wanted everyone to quit their churches and join HIS...

Sounds like a unification strategy to ME! :D

Of course, it's not a very ORIGINAL one.

George

[Nathan_Jr]

On 7/1/2008 at 3:57 PM, bfh said:

Recently, John Lynn wrote another letter to the grads of PFAL, and refers to it as the "sequel to my March, 1998 letter."

Following are some excerpts from "The Way, It Was - June 2008 letter by John Lynn:"

In the interest of truth, both small “t” (the facts about The Way International) and capital “T” (the Word of God it taught),

I am compelled to propose why I think The Way International was (past tense), from a certain perspective, one of the

most significant movements in the history of the Christian Church. I do so for the benefit of any graduate of

the “Power For Abundant Living” class who still wants to live for the Lord and who may have been unduly discouraged,

either by his/her own experience in The Way or by the ensuing barrage of negatives from other ex-Way saints about what was wrong with The Way.

I speak so that you can know “the rest of the story,” as opposed to all the disparaging things that have been said

about The Way through the years by the media (much of that false), other Christians (much of that false),

and disgruntled former followers (much of that true, some of it false).

My purpose is to set forth a much more redemptive view of The Way than what I have thus far read from others with “ex-Way vision.”

In some ways, this is a sequel to my March, 1988 letter in which I blew the whistle about what was then going on in TWI.

Perhaps worst of all, a golden opportunity to make known the Word of God, as it had not been known since the first century, was squandered.

The Way. It was. What was it? First and foremost, it was, from about 1955-1987, the only place I know of

where anyone could hear the amount of truth of the Word of God that we heard.

Like I, you may know of some ministries that do teach some of these truths, but I submit that until 1987

there was nowhere other than TWI to find all of them taught as accurately as they were there.

That is why The Way International stands out on the spectrum of Church history as an amazingly significant Christian movement.

As far as I can see, TWI was also about the most disparate dichotomy of good and evil in the history of Christianity.

The Way, we were. If you once sat through PFAL, you heard the Word of God taught more accurately

than the vast majority of Christians who have ever drawn breath. As a fellow PFAL grad, I identify with you,

and have an affinity for you and a desire to encourage you to take advantage of the truth you once heard,

if you are not already doing so. Along with me, you will one day stand before our precious Lord Jesus Christ,

who will reward you according to how you have lived your life as a Christian. In essence, he will ask each of us

something like this: “What did you do with what you knew?”

[all emphasis in the above quote is mine]

If you would like to read the letter in its entirety, here's the link:

http://www.christianeducational.org/monthl...TheWayItWas.htm

I'm not quite sure what to make of it yet.

So, I thought I'd just throw it out there and see what everyone else thinks.

Merge this with the false accusation thread.

mmmph

[WordWolf]

If you want to discuss the JAL letters, they have at least one thread just for them, "John Lynn's letters."

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24089-john-lynns-letters/