Britain and civil rights part company.

[WordWolf]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/115736/Sin-bins-for-worst-families

Thursday July 23,2009

THOUSANDS of the worst families in England are to be put in “sin bins” in a bid to change their bad behaviour, Ed Balls announced yesterday.

The Children’s Secretary set out £400million plans to put 20,000 problem families under 24-hour CCTV super-vision in their own homes.

They will be monitored to ensure that children attend school, go to bed on time and eat proper meals.

Private security guards will also be sent round to carry out home checks, while parents will be given help to combat drug and alcohol addiction.

Around 2,000 families have gone through these Family Intervention Projects so far.

But ministers want to target 20,000 more in the next two years, with each costing between £5,000 and £20,000 – a potential total bill of £400million.

Ministers hope the move will reduce the number of youngsters who get drawn into crime because of their chaotic family lives, as portrayed in Channel 4 comedy drama Shameless.

Sin bin projects operate in half of council areas already but Mr Balls wants every local authority to fund them.

He said: “This is pretty tough and non-negotiable support for families to get to the root of the problem. There should be Family Intervention Projects in every local authority area because every area has families that need support.”

But Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: “This is all much too little, much too late.

“This Government has been in power for more than a decade during which time anti-social behaviour, family breakdown and problems like alcohol abuse and truancy have just got worse and worse.”

Mr Balls also said responsible parents who make sure their children behave in school will get new rights to complain about those who allow their children to disrupt lessons.

Pupils and their families will have to sign behaviour contracts known as Home School Agreements before the start of every year, which will set out parents’ duties to ensure children behave and do their homework.

The updated Youth Crime Action Plan also called for a crackdown on violent girl gangs as well as drug and alcohol abuse among young women.

But a decision to give ministers new powers to intervene with failing local authority Youth Offending Teams was criticised by council leaders.

Les Lawrence, of the Local Government Association, said they did “crucial” work and such intervention was “completely unnecessary”.

===============================================

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1201462/Thousands-Englands-worst-families-placed-sin-bins-improve-behaviour.html

Thousands of England's worst families to be placed in 'sin bins' to improve behaviour

By Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 5:15 PM on 22nd July 2009

Families will be given intensive 24-hour supervision to make sure children attend school, go to bed on time and eat proper meals

More than 20,000 of the worst families in England are to be placed in Government 'sin bin' care to improve their behaviour.

Yobbish families who refuse State help in raising their children face being made to give up their home - though they are still likely to be re-housed elsewhere.

The Government has decided that focussing on the country's most disruptive families - many of them beset by domestic violence - is the key to tackling youth crime.

Under the so-called Family Intervention Projects, they will be given intensive 24-hour supervision to make sure children attend school, go to bed on time and eat proper meals.

Parents are also given help to stop them leading dysfunctional lives and to combat drug or alcohol addiction.

Around 2,000 families have gone through the projects already, but ministers intend to increase its scope to 20,000 more in the next two years - each costing between £5,000 and £20,000.

The projects are operating in around half of all council areas, but Children's Secretary Ed Balls said he wanted every local authority to fund them.

Councils were today sent letters by Mr Balls and Home Secretary Alan Johnson demanding they all take part.

Mr Balls said: 'This is pretty tough and non-negotiable support for families to get to the root of the problem.'

He added: 'The families know that if they don't use this support they could risk losing their home, go to court, prison or youth custody.'

In most cases, families will be placed under round-the-clock supervision in their own home. But in extreme cases, they are moved into residential blocks, dubbed 'sin bins'.

Some families will be made to move home, in order to make a 'fresh start'. Others are threatened that - if they do not take part - they will lose the tenancy on their social housing.

======================================

http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/government-wants-more-cctv-cameras-in-homes-622368

The UK Government's Children's Secretary Ed Balls has announced a controversial new CCTV monitoring scheme, in which thousands of problem families are to be monitored 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Balls claims that the £400 million "sin bin" scheme will put up to 20,000 problem families under 24-hour surveillance in their own homes, to ensure children go to bed and school on time and eat proper meals.

"Private security guards will also be sent round to carry out home checks, while parents will be given help to combat drug and alcohol addiction," reads a report in the Sunday Express.

Family Intervention Projects

Mr Balls wants every local authority to fund such 'Family Intervention Projects', noting that: "This is pretty tough and non-negotiable support for families to get to the root of the problem.

"There should be Family Intervention Projects in every local authority area because every area has families that need support."

Pupils and their families will have to sign 'Home School Agreements' which set out parents' duties to make sure their kids attend school.

However, privacy campaigners are already up in arms over the latest government plans to install surveillance tech within people's homes.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

Since I have no idea how permissive British society had become, I have no real response to these articles. In America, we've made it almost impossible for teachers and parents to correct unruly children. I could see backlash like this happening here, too. It would be just another case of the government taking away individual freedoms to correct a problem that it caused in the first place.

George

[mstar1]

I'd like to know how one is selected as one of the "worst families".

If its criminal activity, child abuse, or something similar then its along the same lines as those who must wear an ankle bracelet, report in, or take daily drug tests all of which happen here.

Incarcerated criminals are already under 24 hour CCTV surveillance here, families of addicts and criminals and others "at risk" in some cases are monitored very closely.

There is really not enough info in the article, nor am I familiar enough with intricacies of English law to formulate an opinion.

One thing I do know is that tragically a small percentage of people are just

to be anything but very bad parents.

There are no really good answers as to what should be done about that...leave them alone and watch a potential generational tragedy unfold, or intervene and traumatize a whole bunch of people.... I dont know I really dont know

[waysider]

It would be just another case of the government taking away individual freedoms to correct a problem that it caused in the first place.

What's that supposed to mean?

[HAPe4me]

........ In America, we've made it almost impossible for teachers and parents to correct unruly children.

...................

George

while you are at it, what do you mean by this too?

[GeorgeStGeorge]

If a teacher corrects a child, he gets sued. If a parent corrects a child, CPS is called. Our present laws enforce this nonsense. That kind of crap never happened when I was a child, and you know what? Kids weren't unruly (at least not to the extent we see today). So, sure, let the kids run riot, then clamp down with excessive laws.

George

[RumRunner]

If a parent corrects a child, CPS is called. Our present laws enforce this nonsense.

I'll take some issue with that. Even here in California where CPS is downright famous - correction is not an offense. Now if you leave a mark on the child (perhaps as in wooden spoon) then yes it is considered abuse and CPS will intervene. It does not mean that the parents lose the children, get prosecuted by the state or anything else - it means they investigate.

CPS will also get involved in cases of neglect. Suppose you have a family living like dirt - got some horses, cows, sheep, chickens - living in a house that has blown out walls and windows, kids eating food in a filthy kitchen filled with rotten old food while the livestock gets their "fair share" and while the old man and lady makes sure they have enough peso for their entertainment of choice...CPS will investigate and should investigate that neglect. Does it mean they take the kids? Nope - not even here in CA - it means that there is an investigation and possible intervention. (Hell you wanna grow up in a house like that?). Read (if you have a lot of spare time) all of the stories of children found in neglected homes in CA - starving, covered in waste, whilst the old man and old lady make sure that they still have their entertainment - meth, the internet, etc.

[geisha779]

England LOVES their CCTV. . . long before we had traffic cams here they were handing out tickets in the mail without ever physically pulling someone over. . . . in GB you could get a picture of yourself breaking some traffic law . . . in the post. . . and were expected to pay.

The article mentions "Ministers hope the move will reduce the number of youngsters who get drawn into crime because of their chaotic family lives, as portrayed in Channel 4 comedy drama Shameless."

Sorry, can't be embedded.

We are usually a few years behind them in things like this. It will be here soon enough. . . . but, consider what some of these inner city council flats are like. You would NOT walk in there unarmed and would certainly not take your kids.

Who is watching out for these kids? The local Councils? It appears it is just getting worse.

Remember the riots in Paris?

Maybe they have just stood up and took notice.

Edited for really BAD grammar!

Edited August 5, 2009 by geisha779

[HAPe4me]

If a teacher corrects a child, he gets sued. If a parent corrects a child, CPS is called. Our present laws enforce this nonsense. That kind of crap never happened when I was a child, and you know what? Kids weren't unruly (at least not to the extent we see today). So, sure, let the kids run riot, then clamp down with excessive laws.

George

Your argument is grossly overstated IMO. I suppose it depends on how one defines "corrects a child" however. For that matter, I disagree with your claim that kids are more unruly today then we were, and I lived my whole childhood on various army posts.

I wonder if there is some hormone thing that kicks in for some people at a certain age whereby they get older and start to complain about the next generation. I think my grandpa had that condition, and my dad to a lesser degree. Mom never succombed to it, and fortunately it seems to have skipped me.

teachers AND parents correct children every day, without being abusive or sued.

[Ham]

Kids weren't unruly (at least not to the extent we see today)

You didn't go to my Junior High or High School..

I saw stuff that would make one's head spin..

and we were in a relatively "civilized" area at that..

[GeorgeStGeorge]

There have always been troublemakers in school, but when I was growing up, they usually got straightened out pretty quickly. Of course, I spent several years in Catholic schools. But even at the pulic high school I attended, children were respectful. If a teacher had to discipline you (in ANY way), your parents ALSO disciplined you.

Frankly, I think the only recourse teachers have these days (and I haven't heard about anyone trying it, but it makes sense to me) would be to sue the parents of unruly children, saying that the children provide a hostile work environment. Better a pre-emptive strike like that than to have some parent sue because the teacher sent the kid to detention and "lowered his self-esteem." <_<

George

[Bolshevik]

They could toughen the cirriculum. You know, give kids something to do while they are at school. Might change the behavior a little.

:P

[RumRunner]

Frankly, I think the only recourse teachers have these days (and I haven't heard about anyone trying it, but it makes sense to me) would be to sue the parents of unruly children, saying that the children provide a hostile work environment. Better a pre-emptive strike like that than to have some parent sue because the teacher sent the kid to detention and "lowered his self-esteem." <_<

I think Wisconsin tried something like that with attendance not discipline issues. Parents with chronically absent children were somehow fined/sued/neutered - I can't quite remember and certainly can't remember how successful it was.

[brideofjc]

Don't give them any other GREAT ideas...George....they caused the problem to begin with and now they'll get paid for it???? OMG!

There have always been troublemakers in school, but when I was growing up, they usually got straightened out pretty quickly. Of course, I spent several years in Catholic schools. But even at the pulic high school I attended, children were respectful. If a teacher had to discipline you (in ANY way), your parents ALSO disciplined you.

Frankly, I think the only recourse teachers have these days (and I haven't heard about anyone trying it, but it makes sense to me) would be to sue the parents of unruly children, saying that the children provide a hostile work environment. Better a pre-emptive strike like that than to have some parent sue because the teacher sent the kid to detention and "lowered his self-esteem." <_<

George

[oenophile]

Just how did the Government cause the problem?

[GeorgeStGeorge]

The government caused the problem by changing teaching standards so that students pupils are no longer required to learn anything. They have to be passed regardless of achievement, because God forbid we should hurt their feelings. States, like Texas, with so-called achievement tests, continually dumb them down, and then the teachers only prep kids for those tests. (I'm generalizing here, of course; there ARE teachers who try to instill a love for learning, but the political deck is stacked against them.) The courts (which are part of the government) encourage this behavior. I haven't read the "College grad sues school" thread, but it doesn't surprise me in the least.

As for suing the parents of unruly kids, it's not what I would really like to see. But if people are no longer afraid of parents and teachers, at least they're still afraid of LAWYERS!

George

[Ham]

I dunno.. seems back in "the day" unless one enjoyed the whack in the rear.. the "bad element" learned to be bad, more discretely. Just my impression here..

one generally had a close knit group where one could buy dope..

now its sold right out on the streets. Why? well..I think with lower standards, the sellers and users are still there.. but they just don't have a real need to hide..

we are educating dumbed down dealers and drug addicts..

now in Britain, it looks like they are just harvesting them..

[Bolshevik]

The government caused the problem by changing teaching standards so that students pupils are no longer required to learn anything. They have to be passed regardless of achievement, because God forbid we should hurt their feelings. States, like Texas, with so-called achievement tests, continually dumb them down, and then the teachers only prep kids for those tests. (I'm generalizing here, of course; there ARE teachers who try to instill a love for learning, but the political deck is stacked against them.) . . .

George

One year a group of us went through three years of math books. For the following 2-3 years we redid those same math books. What was the point of that? What do you think we did with all that "free time"?

[HAPe4me]

i disagree with you George, but then I am not there in TX. I have not seen our curriculums here in CO "dumbed down", and I know there is no requirement to pass a kid on to the next level in my school district. We view the students here as LEARNERS rather than boxes to be stuffed with meaningless data dumps. It works well for us.

Here, many of the changes in curriculum have been driven by the business community, who want their future employees to be able to think problems through to a resolution, and to work with other employees to get the job done. These changes are in addition to the regular strong math, english and science standards.

Can you point me to more than a couple of isolated stories about parent's suing for their kid's self esteem being hurt by a teacher? You speak as though it is a common practice. I have not heard of much of that anywhere, and none in CO. Is that a way of life in the courts for people in TX or something?

For the record, I am quite pleased with the education my boys got in their public school years here. I do not think they were a peculiarity. I know many many many wonderful young people who are able to think, solve problems, write well, and participate in and effect change in their community. I thoroughly enjoy spending time with them, working with them, and sitting around talking with them. I am sorry you do not seem to have the same joy of doing that which I do.

[Ham]

After one week of assistantship training..

it isn't so much.. "let's not pick on the poor kids self esteem".

It's more like.. how can we build a positive self esteem.

So many studies seem to prove kids will perform as well as we can tell them they can.

Give me a few months or years of real experience.. and maybe I can say more..

:)

Tutoring.. I can tell the difference. I've told people they are as smart as anyone else, they have the capacity to learn.. and it really is true. The same portion of the brain that can do language also does math. Is one "wired" to be able to understand math? Yes.

Doesn't make everything wonderful and easy though..

[HAPe4me]

After one week of assistantship training..

it isn't so much.. "let's not pick on the poor kids self esteem".

It's more like.. how can we build a positive self esteem.

So many studies seem to prove kids will perform as well as we can tell them they can.

Give me a few months or years of real experience.. and maybe I can say more..

Tutoring.. I can tell the difference. I've told people they are as smart as anyone else, they have the capacity to learn.. and it really is true. The same portion of the brain that can do language also does math. Is one "wired" to be able to understand math? Yes.

Doesn't make everything wonderful and easy though..

well said Ham, I don't disagree with any of that. I simply add that in my view, the goal of building positive self esteem is to enhance learning.

(edit to add a word)

Edited August 8, 2009 by HAPe4me

[Bolshevik]

The government caused the problem by changing teaching standards so that students pupils are no longer required to learn anything. They have to be passed regardless of achievement, because God forbid we should hurt their feelings.

. . .

This is a true statement. Except, if the government didn't cause it, then culture did. Either way, it's what the people want.

[kimberly]

Remember the days of the Truancy Officer? Back in my day boys carried pocket knives and duked it out in the play ground. If you got in trouble at school you got in trouble at home.

Now, mamas hot foot it to school and want to know what you did to make her baby mad that made him/her misbehave. That is, the parents who care enough to show up or are available.

The breakdown of the family unit is the greatest contributing factor for the pathetic state of our education system.

[RumRunner]

Now, mamas hot foot it to school and want to know what you did to make her baby mad that made him/her misbehave. That is, the parents who care enough to show up or are available.

Uhhh - not by my experience in raising two kids. Every parent I know attends PTC's, other school functions, and is involved in school...as in every one I know...and if the kids got in some yogurt the parents were'nt all calling their attorneys. While I certainly cannot disagree with you that it does happen, and perhaps may happen a lot, it is not ubiquitous.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

My wife has done a lot of substitute teaching. She began working on her certification to teach full-time, but the liberal bias of the curriculum made her cringe. She's now happy to do the occasional sub jub. If you don't expect to be there tomorrow, you don't have to take a lot of crap!

George

This is a true statement. Except, if the government didn't cause it, then culture did. Either way, it's what the people want.

More likely, it's what the NEA wants.

George