I thought she changed her tone on that over time . . . lcm was blamed for making twi a "children of Israel" . . . "the ministry is not for everyone" . . . "we need to get along with other ministries"(or something).
During the lawsuit time I remember people were saying "we are the ministry" . . . desperate rallying attempts I guess.
The absurdity of the statement is almost comical. But I have heard it from so many folks since Rosalie started it back when. I guess it's typical pompous rhetoric from da ministry.
When (in essence) one believes that every other Christian organization is counterfeit, to think that their own particular organization is "God's ministry" is not necessarily absurd. To an outsider, or one who has moved beyond the rather narrow (and self absorbed) line of thinking, it is.
When (in essence) one believes that every other Christian organization is counterfeit, to think that their own particular organization is "God's ministry" is not necessarily absurd.
Yes! I mean after all, those other groups mean well but sincerity is no guarantee for truth and nobody has da wurd like we do!.. :wacko:
I don't think believing one has the "truth" necessarily guarantees sincerity. Ironically, sincerity was not valued in TWI, but in other philosophies it is considered a virtue.
When (in essence) one believes that every other Christian organization is counterfeit, to think that their own particular organization is "God's ministry" is not necessarily absurd. To an outsider, or one who has moved beyond the rather narrow (and self absorbed) line of thinking, it is.
Good point. From my perusings about the history of Christianity, this sort of thinking seems pervasive in many sects, especially evangelical ones (and many other religions and various sorts of groups.) That's how they define their "tribe" and function. Without boundaries, what's the point of having any group (or religion) really? You're either in or out.
To me, though, attaching the idea that the group is God's is even more specifically narrow and exclusive and insideous. It's a way to control people in an abusive pyschological way. In TWI, I think the idea that we were teaching "the rightly divided Word" implied we were teaching what God wanted known. Coupled with VP's "snow" claim, it made sense we were God's ministry. Of course, it was a twisted sort of sense, one based on erroneous premises.
For instance, I remember a youth advance at ECU in Greenville, NC in the spring of 1971. Ironically, this event was held in a church across Fifth Street from The Way Home owned by The Way Inc. Joh* Ly*n was the limb (state) leader at the time. On a paper banner hanging above the stage was the advance's theme: "Addicted to the ministry of the saints," based on I Corinthians 16:15, "I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints."
VP taught at that advance, as well as some of the First Way Corps. Clearly, this theme was used to fire up our commitment to VP's cult, there was no doubt about it. And the message was more than subliminal that the "ministry of the saints" was The Way's outreach system.
In my view, The Way was equated with "the ministry" whenever we read those words in the Bible. Most of the time this was implied, not spoken outright. Although I bet if I searched some old Way Mags and articles by VP in his "By The Way" articles published in the St. Marys Leader newspaper, I could find some doozy quotes that would illustrate this issue. Some of you probably remember the collateral reading called, The First Century Church in the Twentieth, which sent the message: we were to immitate the Book of Acts in this century, in this culture, period. This would make us the ministry of God in this day and time. From what I've read and observed, this thinking is part of a larger kind found in many groups under the umbrella of fundamentalism.
So to me, this thinking has its roots with VP, it's not a new tag line dreamed up by Rosie or anyone other than VP himself.
So to me, this thinking has its roots with VP, it's not a new tag line dreamed up by Rosie or anyone other than VP himself.
Absolutely...It was Vic himself who started this diatribe. It went along with his mog of the world myth...and his claim that he was teaching the werd as it hadn't been known since the 1st century...
...calling twi "God's ministry" was a small step in logic after swallowing the other baloney...and it all started with the snow on the gaspumps story.
Recently, I have started trying to stop calling twi "The Ministry"... because it ISN'T the ONLY Ministry.... it isn't even a ministry (of God.) I hate even using the term "ministry" in association with twi.
Well that answers some things for me. RosieLIE hasn't done a whole lot more than revive Vic worship since The Forehead fell from grace. It seems to me to explain why the saying reverberates so easily from da way international's followers.
Well that answers some things for me. RosieLIE hasn't done a whole lot more than revive Vic worship since The Forehead fell from grace. It seems to me to explain why the saying reverberates so easily from da way international's followers.
Usually CEO's in an organization are responsible for a strategy that promotes the health and growth of the organization. She has no ability in that respect, so the only thing left is to fall back to that which was before and enshrine it. Have you heard the phrase "we're going to run on the rails that brought us here?" anywhere? In reality, that is saying "we don't know what the f we're doing, so we're going to do nothing and rely on the existing structure". Then they pretend they are being kinder and gentler. But a leopard can't change its spots.
Usually CEO's in an organization are responsible for a strategy that promotes the health and growth of the organization. She has no ability in that respect
Let me tell you what, she is in so far over her head it's pathetic.
Well that answers some things for me. RosieLIE hasn't done a whole lot more than revive Vic worship since The Forehead fell from grace. It seems to me to explain why the saying reverberates so easily from da way international's followers.
I've said this probably a dozen times on GS.......but I think Geer was FIRST IN LINE to revive the wierwille worship mantra after his death. The sum total of the patriarch paper was to HONOR WIERWILLE WITH ALL YOUR HEART, SOUL, MIND AND STRENGTH........praise him for all he has given.
Then, the offshoot guys began hitching their "ministries" to wierwille's "star."
Martindale deviated from the well-trodden path of pfal. He pushed the "athlete allegory" as it stroked his ego of his jock days. In the end, martindale was the fall guy.
Rosalie knows a cash cow when she sees one.....and that maid knows how to milk..!!
Well, yes, Geer gave a major boost to "get back to VP" um, I mean "get back to the basics of the Word" dogma, but LCM did his part in pushing the VP worship thing, too, with his "VP and ME" book especially...
Yes he sure as heck did. I could smell the ego dripping from the title of that book. Remember that The Forehead had been second his entire life. He had numerical significance to his super specialness. He was here to establish....ya.
Well, yes, Geer gave a major boost to "get back to VP" um, I mean "get back to the basics of the Word" dogma, but LCM did his part in pushing the VP worship thing, too, with his "VP and ME" book especially...
penworks......good point. :)
And, then.....let's not forget how Chris Geer spent hundreds of hours in Anderson Library his first year in-rez (1976) to study every facet of wierwille and dotsie......heritage, background, traveling habits, dogs and hunting, food and drink, idiosyncricies, irritations, etc. etc.
The result? Chris and Barbara stepped into their interim corps year assignments as VP's and Dotsie's personal assistants.
Martindale and Geer......Geer and Martindale -----> Who's on first?
Recently, I have started trying to stop calling twi "The Ministry"... because it ISN'T the ONLY Ministry.... it isn't even a ministry (of God.) I hate even using the term "ministry" in association with twi.
I SO know it! I have been trying to break myself of that for a while now. THE ministry.....
Not to suggest it was actually a real ministry, but, because it's a phrase with which we can all identify.
I was calling it that--until I really thought about what it implied--that the way was THE ministry. I have resorted to calling it the way now--if I even name it. Usually it's only when talking to my hubby. I normally refer to the way as a group with a Christian veneer.
I normally refer to the way as a group with a Christian veneer.
Yes, that's what it is, isn't it.
Sorta reminds me of those companies that come in and "reface" your old cabinets.
The "kinder, gentler" ministry is really just the same old organization with new facings and doors added to lend some aesthetics to the same old structure.
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Bolshevik
I thought she changed her tone on that over time . . . lcm was blamed for making twi a "children of Israel" . . . "the ministry is not for everyone" . . . "we need to get along with other ministries"(or something).
During the lawsuit time I remember people were saying "we are the ministry" . . . desperate rallying attempts I guess.
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waysider
God's ministry???
It's not any kind of "ministry" at all.
It's just an MLM business with a Biblical veneer.
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OldSkool
Not to my knowledge. She may have toned it down publicly but I remember her saying it at many a meeting.
Great point!
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frank123lol
We are special,god moved over for us,we got the answers,not...
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chockfull
"This is God's ministry!" !!!!!???????
Well then give it the f back.
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geisha779
Someone should tell God then....because he really needs to renew his mind.
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OldSkool
The absurdity of the statement is almost comical. But I have heard it from so many folks since Rosalie started it back when. I guess it's typical pompous rhetoric from da ministry.
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Tzaia
When (in essence) one believes that every other Christian organization is counterfeit, to think that their own particular organization is "God's ministry" is not necessarily absurd. To an outsider, or one who has moved beyond the rather narrow (and self absorbed) line of thinking, it is.
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OldSkool
Yes! I mean after all, those other groups mean well but sincerity is no guarantee for truth and nobody has da wurd like we do!..
:wacko:
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Tzaia
I don't think believing one has the "truth" necessarily guarantees sincerity. Ironically, sincerity was not valued in TWI, but in other philosophies it is considered a virtue.
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penworks
Good point. From my perusings about the history of Christianity, this sort of thinking seems pervasive in many sects, especially evangelical ones (and many other religions and various sorts of groups.) That's how they define their "tribe" and function. Without boundaries, what's the point of having any group (or religion) really? You're either in or out.
To me, though, attaching the idea that the group is God's is even more specifically narrow and exclusive and insideous. It's a way to control people in an abusive pyschological way. In TWI, I think the idea that we were teaching "the rightly divided Word" implied we were teaching what God wanted known. Coupled with VP's "snow" claim, it made sense we were God's ministry. Of course, it was a twisted sort of sense, one based on erroneous premises.
For instance, I remember a youth advance at ECU in Greenville, NC in the spring of 1971. Ironically, this event was held in a church across Fifth Street from The Way Home owned by The Way Inc. Joh* Ly*n was the limb (state) leader at the time. On a paper banner hanging above the stage was the advance's theme: "Addicted to the ministry of the saints," based on I Corinthians 16:15, "I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints."
VP taught at that advance, as well as some of the First Way Corps. Clearly, this theme was used to fire up our commitment to VP's cult, there was no doubt about it. And the message was more than subliminal that the "ministry of the saints" was The Way's outreach system.
In my view, The Way was equated with "the ministry" whenever we read those words in the Bible. Most of the time this was implied, not spoken outright. Although I bet if I searched some old Way Mags and articles by VP in his "By The Way" articles published in the St. Marys Leader newspaper, I could find some doozy quotes that would illustrate this issue. Some of you probably remember the collateral reading called, The First Century Church in the Twentieth, which sent the message: we were to immitate the Book of Acts in this century, in this culture, period. This would make us the ministry of God in this day and time. From what I've read and observed, this thinking is part of a larger kind found in many groups under the umbrella of fundamentalism.
So to me, this thinking has its roots with VP, it's not a new tag line dreamed up by Rosie or anyone other than VP himself.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Absolutely...It was Vic himself who started this diatribe. It went along with his mog of the world myth...and his claim that he was teaching the werd as it hadn't been known since the 1st century...
...calling twi "God's ministry" was a small step in logic after swallowing the other baloney...and it all started with the snow on the gaspumps story.
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JavaJane
Recently, I have started trying to stop calling twi "The Ministry"... because it ISN'T the ONLY Ministry.... it isn't even a ministry (of God.) I hate even using the term "ministry" in association with twi.
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OldSkool
Well that answers some things for me. RosieLIE hasn't done a whole lot more than revive Vic worship since The Forehead fell from grace. It seems to me to explain why the saying reverberates so easily from da way international's followers.
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chockfull
Usually CEO's in an organization are responsible for a strategy that promotes the health and growth of the organization. She has no ability in that respect, so the only thing left is to fall back to that which was before and enshrine it. Have you heard the phrase "we're going to run on the rails that brought us here?" anywhere? In reality, that is saying "we don't know what the f we're doing, so we're going to do nothing and rely on the existing structure". Then they pretend they are being kinder and gentler. But a leopard can't change its spots.
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OldSkool
Let me tell you what, she is in so far over her head it's pathetic.
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skyrider
I've said this probably a dozen times on GS.......but I think Geer was FIRST IN LINE to revive the wierwille worship mantra after his death. The sum total of the patriarch paper was to HONOR WIERWILLE WITH ALL YOUR HEART, SOUL, MIND AND STRENGTH........praise him for all he has given.
Then, the offshoot guys began hitching their "ministries" to wierwille's "star."
Martindale deviated from the well-trodden path of pfal. He pushed the "athlete allegory" as it stroked his ego of his jock days. In the end, martindale was the fall guy.
Rosalie knows a cash cow when she sees one.....and that maid knows how to milk..!!
<_<
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penworks
Well, yes, Geer gave a major boost to "get back to VP" um, I mean "get back to the basics of the Word" dogma, but LCM did his part in pushing the VP worship thing, too, with his "VP and ME" book especially...
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OldSkool
Yes he sure as heck did. I could smell the ego dripping from the title of that book. Remember that The Forehead had been second his entire life. He had numerical significance to his super specialness. He was here to establish....ya.
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skyrider
penworks......good point. :)
And, then.....let's not forget how Chris Geer spent hundreds of hours in Anderson Library his first year in-rez (1976) to study every facet of wierwille and dotsie......heritage, background, traveling habits, dogs and hunting, food and drink, idiosyncricies, irritations, etc. etc.
The result? Chris and Barbara stepped into their interim corps year assignments as VP's and Dotsie's personal assistants.
Martindale and Geer......Geer and Martindale -----> Who's on first?
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penguin
I SO know it! I have been trying to break myself of that for a while now. THE ministry.....
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waysider
I dunno.
I still call it that.
Not to suggest it was actually a real ministry, but, because it's a phrase with which we can all identify.
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penguin
I was calling it that--until I really thought about what it implied--that the way was THE ministry. I have resorted to calling it the way now--if I even name it. Usually it's only when talking to my hubby. I normally refer to the way as a group with a Christian veneer.
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waysider
Yes, that's what it is, isn't it.
Sorta reminds me of those companies that come in and "reface" your old cabinets.
The "kinder, gentler" ministry is really just the same old organization with new facings and doors added to lend some aesthetics to the same old structure.
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