As a convert who came along under Craig's rule, I always found the term "father in the Word" (when applied to VPW) creepy. Really, I do not really understand the point Paul was making with the Corinthians, but I know it wasn't to designate them as "his."
When I was on staff at HQ there was this very reverential portrait / sketch of Victor Paul Wierwille that made him look real fatherly, and it quoted that verse and referenced him as "father in the word." After Craig was ousted and Rosalie went fulltime in sanitizing Victor Paul Wierwille's image that term came to be frowned upon and the picture removed eventually. Strange, no?
I guess this would make brother Harry "our uncle in the upholstery business"......except that he wasn't our uncle and his best "cover up" skills didn't involve sofas and chairs.
lol yeah uncle harry who grabbed my boob when i was 18 or 19 and said, "so young and firm"
Well, if you follow VPW's, et. al, habit of blaming the victim - He wouldn't had to go and do that if you weren't standing in front of him, all young and firm.
All joking aside, I am really sorry that happened to you. That is a really terrible thing for anyone to experience, but especially at such a young age.
Even in my glazed-days.......I REFUSED to swallow this.
Never endorsed it.
Never taught it.
Never promoted it.
The first time I heard it was in the Renewed Mind Class, and it bothered me, I thought it was weird. When I graduated high school and went into the College Division, I felt bad because I didn't like Wierwille; he bugged me. I thought he was obnocious. I never had been around him before. But, after a year of indoctrination I was buying it all hook, line, and sinker. I was weeping calling him my "father in the Word". Mind you, I never had a personal conversation with the man my whole 15 years in TWI...scared of him. Yet, for some reason I had all these "gooshy" feelings about Wierwille. I believed he was The Man of God.
It's amazing what a difference a year of "maturity" can make. I went from reading the man perfectly as a con, to worshipping him and calling him my father. Personally, I think I was starving for a father figure and fatherly affirmation and I would do anything to get even an illusion of it. Sad sad sad.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Of course veepee never called himself that, and believe it or not, I even heard him with a big smile on his face sort of apologize for those who did say it. Of course it never did stop.
I have to admit that I never heard Wierwille use the term but he never stopped it from being used either.
I heard mostly it from Martindale and other Wierwille genuflectors and buttkissers..The terms for VP seemed to get progressively more outrageous as TWI grew
I'll give him "Reverend' since he apparently earned that title.
Then the fake "Doctor" was added which is very squirrelly and underhanded.
By the time I was in it was "THE Man of God", "The Teacher" and " Our Father in the Word".
Looking back its sort of like a sideshow or joke to attempt to add some sort of legitimacy to something that was completely average at its very best.
Every church in the world has bible study classes.
Woopdedoo.
It takes alot of audacity to pretend to be someone that you're not--and alot of arrogance
I know quite a few people in christian circles with titles that they have earned by virtue of their education or position and are required to formally carry by church canon. For the most part they joke about them and think that they aren't worth the bother.
All joking aside, I am really sorry that happened to you. That is a really terrible thing for anyone to experience, but especially at such a young age.
thank you but pppffftttt that was NOTHING -- the uncle seemed like "just" a dirty old man
the brother of the uncle, however, used his "spiritual fatherly" position to counsel me as to why i should screw him so i would understand what THE LOVE OF GOD is when it comes to such matters -- after my telling him i was sexually abused as a child. now that's devious, cruel, mean, or just plain f'd up. i ran away from him and told him i couldn't "handle" it
but he finally got me on a long ride from emporia KS to new knoxville OH -- that's when i woke up in the middle of experiencing -- well kind of from a distance like up above floating or something from the ceiling looking down and not knowing how i got there -- this love of god in manifestation
thank you but pppffftttt that was NOTHING -- the uncle seemed like "just" a dirty old man
the brother of the uncle, however, used his "spiritual fatherly" position to counsel me as to why i should screw him so i would understand what THE LOVE OF GOD is when it comes to such matters -- after my telling him i was sexually abused as a child. now that's devious, cruel, mean, or just plain f'd up. i ran away from him and told him i couldn't "handle" it
but he finally got me on a long ride from emporia KS to new knoxville OH -- that's when i woke up in the middle of experiencing -- well kind of from a distance like up above floating or something from the ceiling looking down and not knowing how i got there -- this love of god in manifestation
how healing lol
How anyone can build an offshoot on this man's legacy is beyond me. I abhor Vic. He was a POS rapist, plagiarizing, scum bag. And that is being kind. May all of his sins rest squarely on his own shoulders.
I heard mostly it from Martindale and other Wierwille genuflectors and buttkissers..The terms for VP seemed to get progressively more outrageous as TWI grew.
Yeah.....martindale, geer, corps coordinators and other lockstep leaders.
If you just indoctrinate the brain.....idolatry comes forward!
PFAL = the biblical keys to the word's interpretation
PFAL = the essence of the word in this day and time
our father in the word, hollow and unholy is your name, your tyranny come, your will be done on earth as it is in hell.give us this day your daily sex, and never forgive us of our own sins but forgive yours done to us. lead us in temptations and deceive us into evil. for yours is the kingdom, and power/authority, and self glory now and forever. Amen.
our father in the word, hollow and unholy is your name, your tyranny come, your will be done on earth as it is in hell.give us this day your daily sex, and never forgive us of our own sins but forgive yours done to us. lead us in temptations and deceive us into evil. for yours is the kingdom, and power/authority, and self glory now and forever. Amen.
That's pretty good Thomas. All it's missing is a little Drambuie. Wait, a lot of Drambuie.
To add: Paul's description of himself in I Cor. 4 as father is fairly clear. (I think) Though the people he was writing to had many teachers or instructors, they have one person who had "fathered" them in Christ or had "begotten them through the gospel".
He also asks them to be "imitators" of him and that Timothy would soon be there to "remind" them of "his ways".
There's a two fold relationship and responsibility being described.
"Paul" defends his lifestyle, habits and actions amongst those he's talking to here - in fact, he does that several times throughout these epistles.
He doesn't say "follow me", I "fathered" you - regardless of what I do and/or teach - he asks this of them because he wishes to fulfull
the responsibility of his relationship, one that he's held up on his end by the way he lived and conducted himself.
He's trustworthy and has proven it so he asks for trust.
He's taught them at great personal expense and effort and asks that they give him respect for that effort.
Y'know - I don't dance on VPW's grave and there was great value for me in the Way and learning as I did.
But - I don't care whose feelings it hurts - VPW simply didn't fill the role of "father" when he was playing around, screwing his marriage up,taking
advantage of younger women, and failing his responsibilities to his children by putting their entire lives at risk, and very importantly leaving all of it for others to deal with after his death.
I'm sure they don't like hearing about it Exkarate' - I wouldn't either.
But who's fault is it? If nothing else he could have settled his life's business before he died, he certainly knew it was coming.
He didn't - he let it go. So the way this has rolled out is ultimately because of both what he did and how he left it for others to deal with.
That's being a "bad" father in the Word" as far as I'm concerned. (and my wife and family feel the same way)
Y'know - I don't dance on VPW's grave and there was great value for me in the Way and learning as I did.
But - I don't care whose feelings it hurts - VPW simply didn't fill the role of "father" when he was playing around, screwing his marriage up,taking
advantage of younger women, and failing his responsibilities to his children by putting their entire lives at risk, and very importantly leaving all of it for others to deal with after his death.
I'm sure they don't like hearing about it Exkarate' - I wouldn't either.
But who's fault is it? If nothing else he could have settled his life's business before he died, he certainly knew it was coming.
Yeah......wierwille knew that he failed miserably as a living testimony of the gospel of JC.
In the end, he lamented....."I wish I were the man I know to be."
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OldSkool
As a convert who came along under Craig's rule, I always found the term "father in the Word" (when applied to VPW) creepy. Really, I do not really understand the point Paul was making with the Corinthians, but I know it wasn't to designate them as "his."
When I was on staff at HQ there was this very reverential portrait / sketch of Victor Paul Wierwille that made him look real fatherly, and it quoted that verse and referenced him as "father in the word." After Craig was ousted and Rosalie went fulltime in sanitizing Victor Paul Wierwille's image that term came to be frowned upon and the picture removed eventually. Strange, no?
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skyrider
Even in my glazed-days.......I REFUSED to swallow this.
Never endorsed it.
Never taught it.
Never promoted it.
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excathedra
one does not have to enjoy
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waysider
I guess this would make brother Harry "our uncle in the upholstery business"......except that he wasn't our uncle and his best "cover up" skills didn't involve sofas and chairs.
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excathedra
lol yeah uncle harry who grabbed my boob when i was 18 or 19 and said, "so young and firm"
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waysider
Well, he probably meant SPIRITUALLY young and firm.
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OldSkool
Well, if you follow VPW's, et. al, habit of blaming the victim - He wouldn't had to go and do that if you weren't standing in front of him, all young and firm.
All joking aside, I am really sorry that happened to you. That is a really terrible thing for anyone to experience, but especially at such a young age.
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Broken Arrow
The first time I heard it was in the Renewed Mind Class, and it bothered me, I thought it was weird. When I graduated high school and went into the College Division, I felt bad because I didn't like Wierwille; he bugged me. I thought he was obnocious. I never had been around him before. But, after a year of indoctrination I was buying it all hook, line, and sinker. I was weeping calling him my "father in the Word". Mind you, I never had a personal conversation with the man my whole 15 years in TWI...scared of him. Yet, for some reason I had all these "gooshy" feelings about Wierwille. I believed he was The Man of God.
It's amazing what a difference a year of "maturity" can make. I went from reading the man perfectly as a con, to worshipping him and calling him my father. Personally, I think I was starving for a father figure and fatherly affirmation and I would do anything to get even an illusion of it. Sad sad sad.
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dabobbada
I never could get past this verse myself. :wacko:
Matt 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Of course veepee never called himself that, and believe it or not, I even heard him with a big smile on his face sort of apologize for those who did say it. Of course it never did stop.
(With that one verse, he knew better.) :P
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mstar1
I have to admit that I never heard Wierwille use the term but he never stopped it from being used either.
I heard mostly it from Martindale and other Wierwille genuflectors and buttkissers..The terms for VP seemed to get progressively more outrageous as TWI grew
I'll give him "Reverend' since he apparently earned that title.
Then the fake "Doctor" was added which is very squirrelly and underhanded.
By the time I was in it was "THE Man of God", "The Teacher" and " Our Father in the Word".
Looking back its sort of like a sideshow or joke to attempt to add some sort of legitimacy to something that was completely average at its very best.
Every church in the world has bible study classes.
Woopdedoo.
It takes alot of audacity to pretend to be someone that you're not--and alot of arrogance
I know quite a few people in christian circles with titles that they have earned by virtue of their education or position and are required to formally carry by church canon. For the most part they joke about them and think that they aren't worth the bother.
I don't either.
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excathedra
thank you but pppffftttt that was NOTHING -- the uncle seemed like "just" a dirty old man
the brother of the uncle, however, used his "spiritual fatherly" position to counsel me as to why i should screw him so i would understand what THE LOVE OF GOD is when it comes to such matters -- after my telling him i was sexually abused as a child. now that's devious, cruel, mean, or just plain f'd up. i ran away from him and told him i couldn't "handle" it
but he finally got me on a long ride from emporia KS to new knoxville OH -- that's when i woke up in the middle of experiencing -- well kind of from a distance like up above floating or something from the ceiling looking down and not knowing how i got there -- this love of god in manifestation
how healing lol
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OldSkool
How anyone can build an offshoot on this man's legacy is beyond me. I abhor Vic. He was a POS rapist, plagiarizing, scum bag. And that is being kind. May all of his sins rest squarely on his own shoulders.
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Ham
sadly some of his descendants choose to roll in his iniquity..
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OldSkool
Yep, destined to perfect his evil methodology.
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waysider
Ha! I always wondered why "Roll Away" became such a favorite.
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Broken Arrow
It's called...denial.
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Ham
I wish it was that innocent..
I would tend more, to call it opportunism.
a dollar to be donated.. or extorted..
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Ham
Our fader in da word.
Drambuie be thy name..
thy kingdom(?) come..
hollow be thy name..
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skyrider
Yeah.....martindale, geer, corps coordinators and other lockstep leaders.
If you just indoctrinate the brain.....idolatry comes forward!
PFAL = the biblical keys to the word's interpretation
PFAL = the essence of the word in this day and time
PFAL = the word
VPW taught pfal
VPW taught "the word"
VPW is your "father in the word"
See.....there it is, plain as mud.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
our father in the word, hollow and unholy is your name, your tyranny come, your will be done on earth as it is in hell.give us this day your daily sex, and never forgive us of our own sins but forgive yours done to us. lead us in temptations and deceive us into evil. for yours is the kingdom, and power/authority, and self glory now and forever. Amen.
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chockfull
That's pretty good Thomas. All it's missing is a little Drambuie. Wait, a lot of Drambuie.
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socks
To add: Paul's description of himself in I Cor. 4 as father is fairly clear. (I think) Though the people he was writing to had many teachers or instructors, they have one person who had "fathered" them in Christ or had "begotten them through the gospel".
He also asks them to be "imitators" of him and that Timothy would soon be there to "remind" them of "his ways".
There's a two fold relationship and responsibility being described.
"Paul" defends his lifestyle, habits and actions amongst those he's talking to here - in fact, he does that several times throughout these epistles.
He doesn't say "follow me", I "fathered" you - regardless of what I do and/or teach - he asks this of them because he wishes to fulfull
the responsibility of his relationship, one that he's held up on his end by the way he lived and conducted himself.
He's trustworthy and has proven it so he asks for trust.
He's taught them at great personal expense and effort and asks that they give him respect for that effort.
Y'know - I don't dance on VPW's grave and there was great value for me in the Way and learning as I did.
But - I don't care whose feelings it hurts - VPW simply didn't fill the role of "father" when he was playing around, screwing his marriage up,taking
advantage of younger women, and failing his responsibilities to his children by putting their entire lives at risk, and very importantly leaving all of it for others to deal with after his death.
I'm sure they don't like hearing about it Exkarate' - I wouldn't either.
But who's fault is it? If nothing else he could have settled his life's business before he died, he certainly knew it was coming.
He didn't - he let it go. So the way this has rolled out is ultimately because of both what he did and how he left it for others to deal with.
That's being a "bad" father in the Word" as far as I'm concerned. (and my wife and family feel the same way)
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skyrider
Yeah......wierwille knew that he failed miserably as a living testimony of the gospel of JC.
In the end, he lamented....."I wish I were the man I know to be."
Wish? Wishing at the end of his life?
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride!
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excathedra
thank you
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