"The Word is The Way and The Way is The Word." something like that. Pathetic.
And yes, I personally believe this encouraged people to confuse the two. Sorry, my God is so much bigger than anything TWI could ask or think or hope or imagine.
It's Algebra 101: If A equals C and B equals C then A equals B. If God equals The Bible and the Bible equals the Ministry then God equals the Ministry also. I think that's what they were getting at.
The phrase I remember the higher up muckity mucks quoting with down-the-nose glances all trying to sound spiritual was:
"The ministry is the Word and the Word is the ministry".
This is a step in human rationalization that allows for all of the moral compromises necessary to be a muckity muck. For instance, now they can take the verse about the ministry not being blamed and justify all sorts of lies, cover-ups, untruths as well as the standard practices of slander, libel, ruining people's reputation, shunning them, etc. This is why they are in for a shock at the return of Jesus Christ. The "fruit" of their selling out to the ministry involves fruit that is much more similar to a politician than a Christian. What they produce they will live with.
That's almost worse since "God has magnified his Word above His name."
And of course they use that verse to laud what they teach above God himself.
Yes, if you combine that with all the "present truth" spins, basically it produces a formula where the follower has unquestioning obedience to the higher up in the ministry. That produces a captive/captor type of relationship. And an easy recipe for the beginning of abuse.
All these little sayings...because we were living just like they did in the first century, weren't we?
As if anyone really knows. Which believers, anyway, in the first century? Those in Jerusalem, or in Antioch, or in Crete, or in Galatia, or where? I'm sure that they all had different ways of "living the Word" according to their own cultural backgrounds.
However, one thing that did set them apart was this: there was a daily meeting of needs, care for members of the community, and a sharing of whatever people owned "neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common."
That lifestyle was significantly evaded by TWI right from the get-go.
Common property? Hah, you try moving into the Corps Chalet or the Wierwille homestead! Or just joining the top people impromptu and uninvited, for a meal!!
Maybe
"You can't separate God and The Ministry."
was true however. You can't separate God and the Ministry...because they, the TWI bigwigs, already did!!!
Edited by Twinky
The phrase I remember the higher up muckity mucks quoting with down-the-nose glances all trying to sound spiritual was:
"The ministry is the Word and the Word is the ministry".
I know this is splitting hairs, but.....
The exact phrase was....."The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word."
See, the reason for this IS....."the Word" is always first. But I tend to think it adds a sleight of hand by putting twi synonymous with that all-inclusive, generic term "the word." If, in fact, twi's teachings were ALWAYS synonymous with the scriptures, then martindale's teaching of the original sin in WAP class would not have been change, now would it?
If, in fact, twi's teachings were ALWAYS synonymous with the scriptures, then martindale's teaching of the original sin in WAP class would not have been change, now would it?
But.... They never really retracted that teaching to all of the lowly followers at the fellowship level. They just stopped teaching it. The implication to us lowly Advanced Class Grads was that it was an Advanced level teaching and new people couldn't handle it, so don't talk about it. At least that's what my WC leadership told me.
It wasn't until I heard someone who had a conversation with Rosie that Rosie thought it was nonsense. But they never made a public statement to that effect... Because that would indicate they had taught something wrong.
Rosie was a former bootlicker for Craig. At least in public.
I know this is splitting hairs, but.....
The exact phrase was....."The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word."
Nah, not splitting hairs. In my expose of the way international I am more interested in giving an accurate account, and after 5 years out, my memory is fading a little.
It really goes above God and not being able to separate him from the ministry, since he magnified his Word above His name. I know I am on repeat, but logic almost demands that conclusion.
But, hey this is the way international. Who needs logic?
The exact phrase was....."The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word."
See, the reason for this IS....."the Word" is always first. But I tend to think it adds a sleight of hand by putting twi synonymous with that all-inclusive, generic term "the word." If, in fact, twi's teachings were ALWAYS synonymous with the scriptures, then martindale's teaching of the original sin in WAP class would not have been change, now would it?
Yes, you're right about the order. I reversed the phrases. That phrase was definitely used to indicate to the follower that whatever a particular leader told you (the ministry), you had to obey because if you didnt' you were arguing with the Word.
Hey I've got a better phrase that's much more accurate:
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waysider
If the ministry is your god, then this actually makes sense.
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Ham
They can separate Siamese twins, can't they?
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Watered Garden
"The Word is The Way and The Way is The Word." something like that. Pathetic.
And yes, I personally believe this encouraged people to confuse the two. Sorry, my God is so much bigger than anything TWI could ask or think or hope or imagine.
It's Algebra 101: If A equals C and B equals C then A equals B. If God equals The Bible and the Bible equals the Ministry then God equals the Ministry also. I think that's what they were getting at.
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Naten00
I can kinda see it...
God will always be involved in ministry... So therefore you can't separate it...
The problem is that they twist the definition of ministry to fit their own goal...
Ministry involves many things most of which to me seems to be absent from "The Way".
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OldSkool
Ya, like helping those in need.
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chockfull
The phrase I remember the higher up muckity mucks quoting with down-the-nose glances all trying to sound spiritual was:
"The ministry is the Word and the Word is the ministry".
This is a step in human rationalization that allows for all of the moral compromises necessary to be a muckity muck. For instance, now they can take the verse about the ministry not being blamed and justify all sorts of lies, cover-ups, untruths as well as the standard practices of slander, libel, ruining people's reputation, shunning them, etc. This is why they are in for a shock at the return of Jesus Christ. The "fruit" of their selling out to the ministry involves fruit that is much more similar to a politician than a Christian. What they produce they will live with.
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OldSkool
That's almost worse since "God has magnified his Word above His name."
And of course they use that verse to laud what they teach above God himself.
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chockfull
Yes, if you combine that with all the "present truth" spins, basically it produces a formula where the follower has unquestioning obedience to the higher up in the ministry. That produces a captive/captor type of relationship. And an easy recipe for the beginning of abuse.
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Twinky
All these little sayings...because we were living just like they did in the first century, weren't we?
As if anyone really knows. Which believers, anyway, in the first century? Those in Jerusalem, or in Antioch, or in Crete, or in Galatia, or where? I'm sure that they all had different ways of "living the Word" according to their own cultural backgrounds.
However, one thing that did set them apart was this: there was a daily meeting of needs, care for members of the community, and a sharing of whatever people owned "neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common."
That lifestyle was significantly evaded by TWI right from the get-go.
Common property? Hah, you try moving into the Corps Chalet or the Wierwille homestead! Or just joining the top people impromptu and uninvited, for a meal!!
Maybe
was true however. You can't separate God and the Ministry...because they, the TWI bigwigs, already did!!! Edited by TwinkyLink to comment
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OldSkool
Amen to that!
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skyrider
I know this is splitting hairs, but.....
The exact phrase was....."The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word."
See, the reason for this IS....."the Word" is always first. But I tend to think it adds a sleight of hand by putting twi synonymous with that all-inclusive, generic term "the word." If, in fact, twi's teachings were ALWAYS synonymous with the scriptures, then martindale's teaching of the original sin in WAP class would not have been change, now would it?
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JavaJane
But.... They never really retracted that teaching to all of the lowly followers at the fellowship level. They just stopped teaching it. The implication to us lowly Advanced Class Grads was that it was an Advanced level teaching and new people couldn't handle it, so don't talk about it. At least that's what my WC leadership told me.
It wasn't until I heard someone who had a conversation with Rosie that Rosie thought it was nonsense. But they never made a public statement to that effect... Because that would indicate they had taught something wrong.
And wasn't Rosie the coordinator for LCM's class?
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OldSkool
Rosie was a former bootlicker for Craig. At least in public.
Nah, not splitting hairs. In my expose of the way international I am more interested in giving an accurate account, and after 5 years out, my memory is fading a little.
It really goes above God and not being able to separate him from the ministry, since he magnified his Word above His name. I know I am on repeat, but logic almost demands that conclusion.
But, hey this is the way international. Who needs logic?
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chockfull
Yes, you're right about the order. I reversed the phrases. That phrase was definitely used to indicate to the follower that whatever a particular leader told you (the ministry), you had to obey because if you didnt' you were arguing with the Word.
Hey I've got a better phrase that's much more accurate:
You can't seperate the BOD of TWI from stupidity.
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OldSkool
Well, especially since their Fadder in der verd simply started a 501-c3 and declared the word inseparable from it.
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Twinky
They certainly used this as an excuse to get people to do all sorts of things.
"An instruction from a leader is just as much the Word of God as ..." ... as what? The Bible?
Anyway it was used as in, whatever we ask you to do, that's the Word of God for you at that precise moment.
"If I tell you to get a bucket of water, then get a bucket of water." Was that VP & Me, Lovely Loy's praise to his teacher?
Like they were all prophets and always all spoke for God.
Right.
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