What would Paul do?

[skyrider]

With heavy emphasis on dispensationalism, wierwille and co. spent a major portion of its doctrine on the church epistles, the Grace Administration. Yes, Christ was the son of God who fulfilled the Law and was crucified, resurrected, and seated at the right hand of God.......BUT NOW, after pentecost, we live in this age of grace of remission and forgiveness of sins.

So, in twi....forgiveness of sins was as simple as a nightly admission to the Father of sins washed away [the big sins, little sins teaching in pfal]. More sins tomorrow? More sexual predation? No problem. Just ask for forgiveness to the Father....NOT TO THE ONE ABUSED.....and voila! Cleansed again....in perpetuity. See, with twi doctrine, you could go thru life willfully and knowingly sinning daily without spiritual consequence or judgment.

What a life of indulgence! Drunkenness, covetousness, plagairism, lying, stealing, exploitation, sexual predation.......no big sins, no little sins. No big deal. With drambuie in hand, just go to your little prayer closet and poof.....a new man, again.

Now listen.....you can't bring forward those old testament scriptures about 'if one's neighbor's ox is gored, or one's daughter is violated'.....nope. We're not in THAT administration any longer. That was then. This is now. The Santa Claus God always comes bearing gifts of forgiveness and newness of life.

YET.....ever notice how wierwille and co. dip into the old testament when it proves THEIR point? SELECTIVE CHERRY PICKING OF SCRIPTURES was the happy orchard of wierwilleville. Still is. And, wierwille was a seasoned cherry-picker when it came to the gospels. Even when Jesus confronted the men to "go and SIN NO MORE......uumm, that doesn't apply to us because its fulfilling the Law Administration.

Christians, the world over, will be celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the gift of everlasting life in the coming days. In Egypt (and elsewhere), Christians are being persecuted for their beliefs as the muslim brotherhood ascends to power. Some are hazarding their lives to stand for Christ.

With twi.....it was more like "What would the Apostle Paul do? Or Timothy?

[waysider]

"With twi.....it was more like "What would the Apostle Paul do? Or Timothy?"

...........................................................................

I think the same could be said for a large part of modern, mainstream "Christianity", especially those factions leaning in the fundamentalist direction.

[WordWolf]

(snip)

With twi.....it was more like "What would the Apostle Paul do? Or Timothy?

It wasn't that either- since Paul and Timothy would have acted morally-as they actually did.

vpw didn't want to act morally like Paul-he wanted to speak AS IF he did,

and do as he fool-well pleased.

Paul told the Corinthian church their poor morals needed correction, and they needed

to adjust their attitudes so they actually felt bad when they did wrong,

or their people did wrong. (I Corinthians 5:1-13)

As to other Christians, I try to make a distinction with what people actually do

and say in their lives compared to a few demagogues who try to rule from the pulpit.

I've seen Christians just blow off even local guys who tried that and did what

they knew was right.

[skyrider]

It wasn't that either- since Paul and Timothy would have acted morally-as they actually did.

vpw didn't want to act morally like Paul-he wanted to speak AS IF he did,

and do as he fool-well pleased.

Paul told the Corinthian church their poor morals needed correction, and they needed

to adjust their attitudes so they actually felt bad when they did wrong,

or their people did wrong. (I Corinthians 5:1-13)

WW....yeah, that's a better way to qualify it.

Vpw simply feigned the paul or timothy valiant lifestyle. Rather than live it, wierwille liked

to be seen of men and teach about it.

"Do the word" was a hybrid wow-mobile than needed pfal-charged daily.

[Twinky]

With heavy emphasis on dispensationalism, wierwille and co. spent a major portion of its doctrine on the church epistles, the Grace Administration. Yes, Christ was the son of God who fulfilled the Law and was crucified, resurrected, and seated at the right hand of God.......BUT NOW, after pentecost, we live in this age of grace of remission and forgiveness of sins.

So, in twi....forgiveness of sins was as simple as a nightly admission to the Father of sins washed away [the big sins, little sins teaching in pfal]. More sins tomorrow? More sexual predation? No problem. Just ask for forgiveness to the Father....NOT TO THE ONE ABUSED.....and voila! Cleansed again....in perpetuity. See, with twi doctrine, you could go thru life willfully and knowingly sinning daily without spiritual consequence or judgment.

What a life of indulgence! Drunkenness, covetousness, plagairism, lying, stealing, exploitation, sexual predation.......no big sins, no little sins. No big deal. With drambuie in hand, just go to your little prayer closet and poof.....a new man, again.

I'm not so sure that forgiveness of sins is available if there is no real repentance or regret for the action - no godly sorrow and no desire to "renew one's mind" to a better more godly way of living.

Because to "ask" for forgiveness for abusing someone (or oneself) whilst simultaneously intending to carry on with the same action is mocking the grace of God.

Or - as TWI might put it - "what's the heart behind it?"

[skyrider]

I'm not so sure that forgiveness of sins is available if there is no real repentance or regret for the action - no godly sorrow and no desire to "renew one's mind" to a better more godly way of living.

Because to "ask" for forgiveness for abusing someone (or oneself) whilst simultaneously intending to carry on with the same action is mocking the grace of God.

BINGO.

[excathedra]

i am trying to my damndest to recall his justification for sexual abuse

i do remember when i was about to be a pfal grad and went to the college girl wows way home and he was there and when i went by the bathroom the door was opened and he turned around full monty and smiled at me. i freaked and my undershepherder (KL) told me he was above the fleshly bullsheet and was so spiritual. WTF?

of course there is the time he told me he had to heal me from sexual abuse -- i don't you bore you anymore with that, eh?

anyway, what would paul do? i didn't know him.

[outandabout]

I'm not bored.

[chockfull]

of course there is the time he told me he had to heal me from sexual abuse -- i don't you bore you anymore with that, eh?

Not boring in that it shows the egotistical entitled cult leader logic that crept into his head and replaced the very clear instructions from the Bible on that topic. And not boring because that logic is completely hidden by top leadership. Also not boring because we have another account of a research team member writing a simple Bible word study up on the word adultery, confronting Wierwille's illogic and sinful practices on the topic, and getting fired.

[excathedra]

my hugs to outie and chock

the reason i feel it is boring because i have talked about it here for so long

and some people think i have a problem because of that

anyway, the logic went something like "you have never been loved by a real man of god -- you have just been used by your relative" lol

[chockfull]

the reason i feel it is boring because i have talked about it here for so long

you don't really talk about it that much. you mention it when the context brings it up. sometimes people freak and say you're lying. other times it blows their mind and they leave the forum. that truth and story is very, very hard for some people to deal with.

and some people think i have a problem because of that

experiences like that as a young girl can definitely cause psychological trauma and problems later. I think you are dealing with all of it admirably, including your willingness to tell the truth here and discuss it. As a result, you are probably actually pretty well-adjusted from the trauma - if I had to guess probably more so than many others that experienced similar things.

the truth is about 100% opposite - you don't have a problem because you talk about it occasionally. it's actually those who lock it away and refuse to admit it to themselves or anyone else ever that has the problem. those that excuse the behavior - they also have the problem. those that attack you and accuse you of lying - yes they have a problem too.

But you have a problem? Not so much. I mean other than the same standard kind of life problems we all deal with.

anyway, the logic went something like "you have never been loved by a real man of god -- you have just been used by your relative" lol

So in other words VP deluded himself into believing in the magic "Christ in you" power of his pee-pee over the clear admonitions in the Bible to keep his sexual passions contained within his own marriage relationship. And that probably was the source of him and all his cronies (including Uncle Scary and Howard) displaying inappropriate sexual behavior like out of control dogs humping people's legs.

[Ham]

if you don't mind me saying.. dogs behavior can be *partly* amusing.. dogs will be dogs.. but a species with a brain weight twenty some times larger..

[outandabout]

VP used to say "If you control your lusts, your tongue and your appetite, you can accomplish great things."

What a hyprocrite.

[krys]

I guess he must have thought he had accomplished something great. Hmmmmm - - I wonder what it could have been?