Maybe, just maybe......twi would have faired much better WITHOUT the corps program.
Mmm...raises an interesting scenario. What if there had been no Corps? VPW's influence would have been weaker, yes, that's a good thing, IMO. Maybe his little cult would have been a bigger flop and not hurt so many people. On the other hand, hurting even one person was one person too many.
Perhaps some of us want to think over this question: would the world would be a better place if twi had not existed at all? Or perhaps it does no good to raise hypothetical questions like that. The fact is we're stuck with what happened. We're tasked with sorting out the good from the bad and the ugly.
Personally, I think Wierwille's ultimate goal was to build a customer base of people who would systematically forward a portion of their income to him on a regularly scheduled basis. (ABS) The PFAL class was merely a vehicle to enable that. In that sense, I see the W.O.W. program as a wholesale failure. WOW's and class instructors didn't (and weren't supposed to) comprehend the bigger picture and, so, energy was mistakenly focused on a peripheral goal. (ie: get people in the class.) On the other hand, the WOW program cost him nothing. Any profit that came from it was icing on the cake.
Wierwille knew it was never about "moving the word" in a Biblical sense.
Personally, I think Wierwille's ultimate goal was......
After reading Mrs. Wierwille's book twice (yeah, I know....it was a grind) and hundreds of threads on Waydale/GS..... I am convinced that vpw was flying by the seat of his pants. For years, vic was on the lookout for an inflection point where adulation intersected cash flow.
Wierwille was in a constant search for overnight look-at-me success....ie the spiritual lottery. When his brother, Harry, stumbled upon Bishop Pillai in Tennessee, the invitation was quickly extended to come to Ohio. Lo and behold, wierwille soon finds himself wanting to take a trip to India with a guest host, provided by Pillai, awaiting to open doors. And, voila....wierwille is strutting his stuff in India just like Dr. E. Stanley Jones.
Same with the B.G. Leonard foundational class. Wierwille heads to Calgary, Alberta.....and this class changes his life. Light bulbs go off!! This is class-based multi-level marketing scheme at the end of the rainbow.
Soon, students like Dr. Higgins would introduce Bullinger's work to this man on the run.....er, this man who kept "searching for truth." See the pattern. Connect the dots and wierwille was going thru life like most everyone else. The mystique of this "man of God" unravels with every page.
And, notice.......Volume II has yet to be written. From 1962-1985, those years will remain silent.
Mrs. Wierwille's book. You know looking back on this, some things are standing out to me now that didn't when they happened. First, that book took forever. I got the impression Mrs. W really didn't want to do it, and reluctantly agreed. It was a big priority to RFR to get finished as that would be the basis for whitewashing VP's tarnished image with a better story. If you look at the book, it has more pictures, programs, captions, etc. than a normal book - because that takes up more real estate than the written word. Mrs. W reportedly said to a bystander at VP's funeral that he was a mean man. This is not a wife who wanted to preserve a man's legacy - it's one who probably thought that it was better left alone. One who was coerced into writing a book, then a team of people were assigned to her, and they basically dredged through old historical artifacts and constructed most of it. The one thing that did occur out of all this was a more factual account, quite unlike the horse biscuit version written by the young starstruck girl Elena Whiteside (The Way Living in Love), which even being so slanted offered enough factual material to investigate the snow on the gas pumps story.
As such, it provides interesting cross-sections. For instance, once I did a little study on debt - one of the favorite topics of the Way. Except I did it from a historical perspective, from the biographies of the original Trustees including Mrs. W's book. Wow. Suffice it to say that how people live and lived is not like they demand those under them to live. That was so much more enlightening looking at people's fruit than it was listening to RM's soliloquy's on how God created welfare so people wouldn't have to go in debt.
There will be no second book, no accounts of the Word moving over the hippies and free love group. Why not? We could even come up with some better titles. Like "Born Again to Be Serviced" possibly. Or instead of Whiteside's title, perhaps "The Way Living Exploiting the Free Love Movement". I guess in the second phase of the ministry VP just expanded his definition of "love" to include young chickadees, motor coaches, alcohol, and rufees.
No, that image is not one that is easily whitewashed.
Mrs. Wierwille's book. You know looking back on this, some things are standing out to me now that didn't when they happened. First, that book took forever. I got the impression Mrs. W really didn't want to do it, and reluctantly agreed.
<snip>
There will be no second book......
Ironic, isn't it? A ministry that proclaims to be "God's True Household" and have had "the greatest man of God in their midst since the Apostle Paul"......and prides itself on attention to detail.....leaves Victor Paul Wierwille's legacy unfinished. Take. A. Minute. To. Let. That. Sink. In.
And....no one wants the assignment of writing volume II.
Maybe, the "unfinished" wierwille-legacy adds credence to THE ZERO TEACHER after all?
Mrs. Wierwille's book. You know looking back on this, some things are standing out to me now that didn't when they happened. First, that book took forever. I got the impression Mrs. W really didn't want to do it, and reluctantly agreed. It was a big priority to RFR to get finished as that would be the basis for whitewashing VP's tarnished image with a better story. If you look at the book, it has more pictures, programs, captions, etc. than a normal book.....
In the quote above, the bold-face emphasis is mine.
For those unfamiliar with Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again To Serve.....it was published in 1996. Also, it was an over-sized book whose secondary purpose was a coffee table book. That's right. Twi intended for their avid followers to have this book on a coffee table or end table for public display.
Just like those trustee pictures sent out year after year, it wasn't a love gesture......it was for promotional value. It's not about you, it's about THEM.
This book is to be displayed at the twig level......
....in a home where followers gather to sing from a twi-song book,
....cleaned daily and meticulously arranged for fellowships,
....with all lighting/heating/cleaning expenses incurred at local level,
....and refreshment responsibilities passed around like a hot potato,
....with devotional attendance maintained by brow-beating overseers,
....and all abs money is a one-way street to HEADQUARTERS.
Now, aren't you so thankful to be displaying this book for them?
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
8
9
10
5
Popular Days
Jul 2
16
Nov 10
7
Nov 13
5
Nov 16
5
Top Posters In This Topic
skyrider 8 posts
Twinky 9 posts
waysider 10 posts
Grace Valerie Claire 5 posts
Popular Days
Jul 2 2017
16 posts
Nov 10 2013
7 posts
Nov 13 2013
5 posts
Nov 16 2013
5 posts
Popular Posts
WordWolf
vpw had no experience whatsoever with leadership programs, whether in-residence or not. vpw had no experience whatsoever with the military, not even ROTC, Reserves, nor the National Guard. vpw clai
Twinky
Naw... let's just blame the thief. The zero teacher.
Twinky
Didn't you mean feces-ious?
waysider
If Wierwille was an expert at anything, it was blame shifting. He had that down to a art form.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
penworks
Mmm...raises an interesting scenario. What if there had been no Corps? VPW's influence would have been weaker, yes, that's a good thing, IMO. Maybe his little cult would have been a bigger flop and not hurt so many people. On the other hand, hurting even one person was one person too many.
Perhaps some of us want to think over this question: would the world would be a better place if twi had not existed at all? Or perhaps it does no good to raise hypothetical questions like that. The fact is we're stuck with what happened. We're tasked with sorting out the good from the bad and the ugly.
Cheers!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Well, for starters......
1) With no corps program.....there wouldn't have been a clone factory.
2) With no corps program.....there wouldn't have been metastasized bullying.
3) With no corps program.....less centralized control, less idol-worship.
4) With no corps program.....less bureaucracy, less reporting.
5) Gee, maybe twig coordinators would have walked by the spirit without heavy-handed oppression.
6) Perhaps, average joe/jane coordinators would have kept more autonomy, less dependence.
7) And, absolutely......all abs monies should NOT have funneled directly to twi's coffers.
Ironic, ain't it? Some of the "great people" who influenced wierwille [of which, he commends in pfal]
were people like Ros@lind Rinker, Dr. E.E. H!ggins, and others. Just dynamic individuals who loved God
and followed His ways.
Wierwille's corps program only leavened the lump......because the "standard-bearer" of the program
didn't respect and revere the STANDARD-BEARER who reigneth on High.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Without the WC, there probably would have been no Fellowlaborer program, either. I'm just sayin'.
THE ZERO CORPS
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
vpw had no experience whatsoever with leadership programs, whether in-residence or not.
vpw had no experience whatsoever with the military, not even ROTC, Reserves, nor the National Guard.
vpw claimed he wanted to base it on the US Marines. But vpw had no idea what the actual Marine
experience was like. So, on what did he base his expectations?
The movies.
vpw had seen Marines be loyal and just follow orders. Whether or not that matched reality,
that was what he wanted from his program- he wanted people who would jump off a cliff if ordered
by him.
Naturally, he never told any candidates that's what he wanted. He gave all sorts of stories
about it, which never matched reality. He claimed it was based on something in Acts,
but the entire experience was the opposite of the experiences of Acts. So, he was deceiving
the candidates and lying to them. To him, that's fine because the candidates didn't matter-
except when they were carrying out his orders.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve Lortz
There was also some misbegotten baloney about the school of the prophets from the OT.
Love,
Steve
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Yeah, study at the man of God's feet or something.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Yeah, wierwille........the cherry-picking charlatan.
The guy who ALWAYS picked certain verses and skewed them to his favor.
Ever notice....that he didn't harp on "greatest leaders are to be the greatest servants"
types of scripture? He was cunningly deceptive, wasn't he?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
What an irony, use a concept from the OT to emulate life in the NT.....and fail at both.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Thomas Loy Bumgarner
What would our lives been if there had never been TWI at all? Maybe less stress and paranoia
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
It's incredibly obvious in hindsight, but....
If someone starts a program, 12 people enter it, and 1 person washes out,
we figure the problem was with the 1 person.
If someone starts a program, 12 people enter it, and 12 people wash out,
we figure the problem obviously is with the program.
That means it goes back to who planned the program and who executed
the program.
With the so-called zero corps, those are both the same person-wierwille.
He came up with a concept and executed it, then later discovered he had
no idea what he was doing and it was blowing up in his face.
So he blamed everyone else and closed it up for the moment.
He had much more success with the wow program because so little was
expected of wierwille, and all the hard work was isolated away from him.
People busted their tails all over the US after a few pep talks from him,
and locals were there to help them when there were problems.
That's why the wow program worked when the corps program imploded the
first time around.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
And....any success in the wow program was largely the result of the 80-20 rule,
law of the vital few Pareto principle -- where roughly 80% of good effects came from 20%
of good-hearted people vowing to keep their commitment to serve God.
Countless wow program "failings and failures" were left unreported....sex romping,
sexual predation, boozing, drugs, thievery, sluggards, deadbeats, etc. slithered away
or were kicked off the program at the expense of longsuffering experiences. At times,
wow rovers demanded that wow families be more *accepting* and MORE FORGIVING and allow
this ilk and evil to remain in their midst.
Wow Rovers and Limb Coordinators covered for the wow program so that it didn't tarnish
twi. You know the bit about.....lest the ministry be blamed sorta thing.
The corps program was straight-up indoctrination to do the mog's bidding and
become lockstep soldiers and class instructors. Even the corps could NOT BE TRUSTED
with teaching aspects of the "more abundant life".....just get them in the class.
Let the 33-hour droning of this presentation, with no allowance for questioning, to
be repeated over and over and over again. The systematizing of error had run amuck.
This cult-soldiering led to wierwille-worship, imo.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Personally, I think Wierwille's ultimate goal was to build a customer base of people who would systematically forward a portion of their income to him on a regularly scheduled basis. (ABS) The PFAL class was merely a vehicle to enable that. In that sense, I see the W.O.W. program as a wholesale failure. WOW's and class instructors didn't (and weren't supposed to) comprehend the bigger picture and, so, energy was mistakenly focused on a peripheral goal. (ie: get people in the class.) On the other hand, the WOW program cost him nothing. Any profit that came from it was icing on the cake.
Wierwille knew it was never about "moving the word" in a Biblical sense.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
After reading Mrs. Wierwille's book twice (yeah, I know....it was a grind) and hundreds of threads on Waydale/GS..... I am convinced that vpw was flying by the seat of his pants. For years, vic was on the lookout for an inflection point where adulation intersected cash flow.
Wierwille was in a constant search for overnight look-at-me success....ie the spiritual lottery. When his brother, Harry, stumbled upon Bishop Pillai in Tennessee, the invitation was quickly extended to come to Ohio. Lo and behold, wierwille soon finds himself wanting to take a trip to India with a guest host, provided by Pillai, awaiting to open doors. And, voila....wierwille is strutting his stuff in India just like Dr. E. Stanley Jones.
Same with the B.G. Leonard foundational class. Wierwille heads to Calgary, Alberta.....and this class changes his life. Light bulbs go off!! This is class-based multi-level marketing scheme at the end of the rainbow.
Soon, students like Dr. Higgins would introduce Bullinger's work to this man on the run.....er, this man who kept "searching for truth." See the pattern. Connect the dots and wierwille was going thru life like most everyone else. The mystique of this "man of God" unravels with every page.
And, notice.......Volume II has yet to be written. From 1962-1985, those years will remain silent.
Any guesses why?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
You know, this is mathematically speaking, a very accurate, precise statement..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Mrs. Wierwille's book. You know looking back on this, some things are standing out to me now that didn't when they happened. First, that book took forever. I got the impression Mrs. W really didn't want to do it, and reluctantly agreed. It was a big priority to RFR to get finished as that would be the basis for whitewashing VP's tarnished image with a better story. If you look at the book, it has more pictures, programs, captions, etc. than a normal book - because that takes up more real estate than the written word. Mrs. W reportedly said to a bystander at VP's funeral that he was a mean man. This is not a wife who wanted to preserve a man's legacy - it's one who probably thought that it was better left alone. One who was coerced into writing a book, then a team of people were assigned to her, and they basically dredged through old historical artifacts and constructed most of it. The one thing that did occur out of all this was a more factual account, quite unlike the horse biscuit version written by the young starstruck girl Elena Whiteside (The Way Living in Love), which even being so slanted offered enough factual material to investigate the snow on the gas pumps story.
As such, it provides interesting cross-sections. For instance, once I did a little study on debt - one of the favorite topics of the Way. Except I did it from a historical perspective, from the biographies of the original Trustees including Mrs. W's book. Wow. Suffice it to say that how people live and lived is not like they demand those under them to live. That was so much more enlightening looking at people's fruit than it was listening to RM's soliloquy's on how God created welfare so people wouldn't have to go in debt.
There will be no second book, no accounts of the Word moving over the hippies and free love group. Why not? We could even come up with some better titles. Like "Born Again to Be Serviced" possibly. Or instead of Whiteside's title, perhaps "The Way Living Exploiting the Free Love Movement". I guess in the second phase of the ministry VP just expanded his definition of "love" to include young chickadees, motor coaches, alcohol, and rufees.
No, that image is not one that is easily whitewashed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Thomas Loy Bumgarner
I would like to know what college courses VPW took at Lakeland and Princeton, and what were his grades. Proably B and C average.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Ironic, isn't it? A ministry that proclaims to be "God's True Household" and have had "the greatest man of God in their midst since the Apostle Paul"......and prides itself on attention to detail.....leaves Victor Paul Wierwille's legacy unfinished. Take. A. Minute. To. Let. That. Sink. In.
And....no one wants the assignment of writing volume II.
Maybe, the "unfinished" wierwille-legacy adds credence to THE ZERO TEACHER after all?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
GSC is volume 2.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
penworks
Just want to clarify that he attended Princeton Theological Seminary
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I contacted both these institutions a couple years ago, seeking general information on VPW. My requests went unanswered.
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
Thomas Loy Bumgarner
same with me using Freedom of Information Act. They replied I wasn't a journalist nor police with a warrant.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Oh, so a journalist could get that information?
How interesting.
Now, if we only had a journalist who wanted to find it....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
In the quote above, the bold-face emphasis is mine.
For those unfamiliar with Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again To Serve.....it was published in 1996. Also, it was an over-sized book whose secondary purpose was a coffee table book. That's right. Twi intended for their avid followers to have this book on a coffee table or end table for public display.
Just like those trustee pictures sent out year after year, it wasn't a love gesture......it was for promotional value. It's not about you, it's about THEM.
This book is to be displayed at the twig level......
....in a home where followers gather to sing from a twi-song book,
....cleaned daily and meticulously arranged for fellowships,
....with all lighting/heating/cleaning expenses incurred at local level,
....and refreshment responsibilities passed around like a hot potato,
....with devotional attendance maintained by brow-beating overseers,
....and all abs money is a one-way street to HEADQUARTERS.
Now, aren't you so thankful to be displaying this book for them?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.