Jump to content
GreaseSpot Cafe

TWI memories: good, bad and indifferent


Recommended Posts

Continuing our clean-up-the-attic project we came across a PFAL headband we bought for our son while we were in residence at the Indiana Campus. At first I thought it may have been inspired by the Athletes of the Spirit video (which oddly enough had a cult-following from the very beginning  :biglaugh:  )  but if memory serves, I think the headband in AOS was rainbow colored – not sure – anyway, a lot of the kids were wearing these – guess they thought it was cool – or maybe some wanted to imagineer themselves as “reverend” Twinkle Toes.

 

 

PFAL headband.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 112
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

After I left TWI,  I realized my pre-TWI life was just as valid as during TWI.  As posted above, we were taught to disavow our previous life as "old man" etc.  i came to see my life a single thread, 

When I was in grad school, a collaborator from England came to work in our lab for a few days.  Wasn't it John Cleese who said that America and England were two countries separated by a common languag

That was Rev. Bishop. He was Tim Bishop’s father, and his church was in Rye, NY.  Remember  the “Groovy Christians of Rye”? (Life Magazine article, May 14, 1971) As I recall they held Sunday fell

Posted Images

On 5/2/2020 at 10:33 PM, rubina said:

I've noticed that there's always been a lot of second generation wayfers that get into trouble. I really wonder what is at the root of that.

My best guess is that their parents were always too caught up in their TWI "responsibilities" to spend the proper amount of time raising them.   

 

Rubina, I think it was sad, that parents were so busy, with TWI "responsibilities", they didn't have time to raise their kids.  I often wonder how much time, VPW spent raising his kids.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/11/2020 at 12:21 AM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Rubina, I think it was sad, that parents were so busy, with TWI "responsibilities", they didn't have time to raise their kids.  I often wonder how much time, VPW spent raising his kids.  

He spent a LOT LESS time than he'd made it sound.   To hear him say it, he was an involved dad and successful dog trainer.  He always pushed responsibilities to other people- and raising people and dogs counted among those responsibilities.  

 

To hear vpw say it, he was the first minister to take his whole family on a missionary tour of India.  Among the falsehoods in that statement was him taking "his whole family" (his words, not mine.)  His youngest son, JP, stayed behind with grandparents for the SEVERAL MONTHS of the trip.   In general, he spent LITTLE time actually raising his kids, but was fine taking all the credit for someone else's work.  Then again, how can this be a surprise with such a serial plagiarist and conman?

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

He spent a LOT LESS time than he'd made it sound.   To hear him say it, he was an involved dad and successful dog trainer.  He always pushed responsibilities to other people- and raising people and dogs counted among those responsibilities.  

 

To hear vpw say it, he was the first minister to take his whole family on a missionary tour of India.  Among the falsehoods in that statement was him taking "his whole family" (his words, not mine.)  His youngest son, JP, stayed behind with grandparents for the SEVERAL MONTHS of the trip.   In general, he spent LITTLE time actually raising his kids, but was fine taking all the credit for someone else's work.  Then again, how can this be a surprise with such a serial plagiarist and conman?

WW, you are so right!!  I often wonder why he couldn't wait a year, or two to take his entire family, including JP, to India.  I can't imagine leaving a newborn, behind on such a long trip.  I never understood why VPW, was hell-bent on going to India in the first place.  What was his purpose in dragging, his wife, and other family members on the trip?  

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

WW, you are so right!!  I often wonder why he couldn't wait a year, or two to take his entire family, including JP, to India.  I can't imagine leaving a newborn, behind on such a long trip. I never understood why VPW, was hell-bent on going to India in the first place.  What was his purpose in dragging, his wife, and other family members on the trip? 

 

 

 

That's a good question, and an original question.    So I did a little digging.

Here's what we have:

The thread "VP's visit to India"  discusses this.

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/23050-vps-visit-to-india/page/2/

 

"When wierwille went to India......he was propped in front of church groups, the Hindu convention, dignitaries by

Dr. I.S. Williams. It was Williams who OPENED all the doors for wierwille to speak. And, when wierwille left India

he "designated" Williams to continue to oversee his (vp's) work.....of which, Williams did NOT accept."

 

"Most likely williams opened doors for vpw so that he could use vp as his puppet. They could show off an American who was spouting the same anti-colonial line many Indians were using. VP was getting fed a line and used and didn't know it. I'm sure it stroked his ego to be the lone voice of "truth" over "tradition." "

 

"I got hold of a copy of Dilemma of Foreign Missions in India shortly after I disassociated from TWI in 1986/'87, and was horrified to see how closely the Corps training duplicated the practices Wierwille decried in Dilemma."

 

"Like Dilemma, most of VP's "books" were transcribed sermons he gave, a method which captured his sloppy, extreme, offhanded, and inaccurate manner."

 

 

"There were some incidents concerning vpw's visit to India that we've discussed before.

There's what vpw SAID, and what HAPPENED.

For example, vpw said something about there never before having been a minister who

traveled there with his whole family- saying he was the first.

Supposing there were none before him, he wasn't the first because he left his

youngest son separated from his entire nuclear family for several months when

he was tiny.

vpw also claimed he had entre to all sorts of things there. This is true.

His host, Dr Williams, had entre and walked vpw through everything.

vpw responded by swallowing Williams' line of talk about missionaries-

which vpw later spoke on and had someone transcribe into "his book"

"The Dilemna of Foreign Missions."

vpw claimed that his entre into things all over India was the result of

some miraculous healing he performed. The truth is that Dr Williams opened

all the doors- as Mrs W's account clearly stated in her book.

vpw told us all that it was all because he supposedly was standing on the

back of a train as it was preparing to pull out, and there was a man with

a withered arm there, who was not a Christian. He asked the man if he wanted

vpw to pray for him and if he believed he would be healed if vpw prayed for him.

The man supposedly replied 'yes' to both, but was clear he did not believe in

Jesus. vpw supposedly prayed and the man received a miracle of healing, his arm

suddenly becoming whole and strong in a few seconds, just as the train was pulling

out. Supposedly, vpw was shouting to him about him receiving his healing in the

name of Jesus. Then someone came up to vpw on the train, said he was representing

some official who saw the entire incident that happened back there, and was

responding to such a healing, gave him the keys to his city, and said the doors

to "the East" would always be open to him as a result.

Mrs W's account of the train incident said he was asked to perform a special

blessing for the people there, Christian and non, and he prayed publickly.

Then a man came up on the train and said he represented an official who saw

the prayer, and was impressed a Christian minister would pray for non-Christians.

Later, Dr Williams arranged for vpw to get a key to a city and speak at the

convention.

Mrs W's account skips this entire supposed miracle. No surprise, since a poster

who knew her and saw her notes said there was no such miracle in her notes of the

time.

The entire supposed incident was ridiculous, and cinematic. vpw supposedly is on

the back of a train, and is permitted to hang off the back as it's prepared to

move, and a crowd is allowed to surround the back of the train. As the train begins

to pull out, vpw is in physical contact with someone on the ground, and the train

is beginning regardless. Furthermore, he's with NO support, standing at the back

of a train, bent over the back as it's moving, and he is immune to the laws of inertia

and general physics because he's shouting slogans rather than struggling to stay

onboard a train.

So he obviously lied about what happened, and Mrs W refused to include that lie in

her notes and in her book.

An interesting side-note is that one poster who knew her claimed she pointed to a man

in photos and said that was the man- but there's no such account in her notes and her

OFFICIAL accout of what happened skipped over it. Does that mean she told ONE person

the truth, and hid the truth from the rest-who wanted to believe it?

Or did she lie to one person and tell the truth to everyone else even though it would

have been easier to just give the lie they expected?

I think we all would draw the same conclusions."

 

Some threads that discussed related points:

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/16710-wierwilles-stories-in-pfal/

 

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/13609-the-indian-that-was-healed-on-the-train-by-vp/

 

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/21689-keys-to-the-city/

"Wierwille's stories in pfal." "The Indiand that was healed on the train by vp."  "Keys to the city."

 

===============================

We get that vpw dragged his family along- except for JP-  to India for months.   We get that his denomination seemed to be against it, and made it clear he was not being sent as a spokesperson who could speak for them.   But why was he so insistent on going?

Looking at it right now, it looks like Mr "I want to be special and have special knowledge" got played by Dw Williams and those who played ball with him.  vpw wasn't very intelligent.  If they were playing him and offering secret knowledge and entre, he would go along.  (He's not the only one- it's been said that, if you put a velvet rope in front of a toilet, people would begin lining up for it. ) 

That's why HE went.   Why was it so important to bring his family? 

I have NO idea.  Anyone got anything?

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/12/2020 at 9:13 PM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

WW, you are so right!!  I often wonder why he couldn't wait a year, or two to take his entire family, including JP, to India.  I can't imagine leaving a newborn, behind on such a long trip.  I never understood why VPW, was hell-bent on going to India in the first place.  What was his purpose in dragging, his wife, and other family members on the trip?  

 

Grace, I agree with WordWolf – that is a great original question! That’s one of the many reasons why I keep coming to Grease Spot. Good questions often help us acquire knowledge, eliminate confusion, solve problems and often spur on further investigation.

On a side note, for me Grease Spot is like a think tank for cult survivors – besides the intriguing questions and challenges we all bring to the table, there’s also a lot of empathy here - offering advice and different perspectives, pooling resources, and addressing cult tactics. Overall it helps me peel back the onion in terms of mental baggage, reexamining my experiences and even making some headway in the journey of self-discovery.

Edited by T-Bone
revision
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/13/2020 at 2:38 AM, WordWolf said:

That's a good question, and an original question.    So I did a little digging.

Here's what we have:

The thread "VP's visit to India"  discusses this.

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/23050-vps-visit-to-india/page/2/

 

"When wierwille went to India......he was propped in front of church groups, the Hindu convention, dignitaries by

Dr. I.S. Williams. It was Williams who OPENED all the doors for wierwille to speak. And, when wierwille left India

he "designated" Williams to continue to oversee his (vp's) work.....of which, Williams did NOT accept."

 

"Most likely williams opened doors for vpw so that he could use vp as his puppet. They could show off an American who was spouting the same anti-colonial line many Indians were using. VP was getting fed a line and used and didn't know it. I'm sure it stroked his ego to be the lone voice of "truth" over "tradition." "

 

"I got hold of a copy of Dilemma of Foreign Missions in India shortly after I disassociated from TWI in 1986/'87, and was horrified to see how closely the Corps training duplicated the practices Wierwille decried in Dilemma."

 

"Like Dilemma, most of VP's "books" were transcribed sermons he gave, a method which captured his sloppy, extreme, offhanded, and inaccurate manner."

 

 

"There were some incidents concerning vpw's visit to India that we've discussed before.

There's what vpw SAID, and what HAPPENED.

For example, vpw said something about there never before having been a minister who

traveled there with his whole family- saying he was the first.

Supposing there were none before him, he wasn't the first because he left his

youngest son separated from his entire nuclear family for several months when

he was tiny.

vpw also claimed he had entre to all sorts of things there. This is true.

His host, Dr Williams, had entre and walked vpw through everything.

vpw responded by swallowing Williams' line of talk about missionaries-

which vpw later spoke on and had someone transcribe into "his book"

"The Dilemna of Foreign Missions."

vpw claimed that his entre into things all over India was the result of

some miraculous healing he performed. The truth is that Dr Williams opened

all the doors- as Mrs W's account clearly stated in her book.

vpw told us all that it was all because he supposedly was standing on the

back of a train as it was preparing to pull out, and there was a man with

a withered arm there, who was not a Christian. He asked the man if he wanted

vpw to pray for him and if he believed he would be healed if vpw prayed for him.

The man supposedly replied 'yes' to both, but was clear he did not believe in

Jesus. vpw supposedly prayed and the man received a miracle of healing, his arm

suddenly becoming whole and strong in a few seconds, just as the train was pulling

out. Supposedly, vpw was shouting to him about him receiving his healing in the

name of Jesus. Then someone came up to vpw on the train, said he was representing

some official who saw the entire incident that happened back there, and was

responding to such a healing, gave him the keys to his city, and said the doors

to "the East" would always be open to him as a result.

Mrs W's account of the train incident said he was asked to perform a special

blessing for the people there, Christian and non, and he prayed publickly.

Then a man came up on the train and said he represented an official who saw

the prayer, and was impressed a Christian minister would pray for non-Christians.

Later, Dr Williams arranged for vpw to get a key to a city and speak at the

convention.

Mrs W's account skips this entire supposed miracle. No surprise, since a poster

who knew her and saw her notes said there was no such miracle in her notes of the

time.

The entire supposed incident was ridiculous, and cinematic. vpw supposedly is on

the back of a train, and is permitted to hang off the back as it's prepared to

move, and a crowd is allowed to surround the back of the train. As the train begins

to pull out, vpw is in physical contact with someone on the ground, and the train

is beginning regardless. Furthermore, he's with NO support, standing at the back

of a train, bent over the back as it's moving, and he is immune to the laws of inertia

and general physics because he's shouting slogans rather than struggling to stay

onboard a train.

So he obviously lied about what happened, and Mrs W refused to include that lie in

her notes and in her book.

An interesting side-note is that one poster who knew her claimed she pointed to a man

in photos and said that was the man- but there's no such account in her notes and her

OFFICIAL accout of what happened skipped over it. Does that mean she told ONE person

the truth, and hid the truth from the rest-who wanted to believe it?

Or did she lie to one person and tell the truth to everyone else even though it would

have been easier to just give the lie they expected?

I think we all would draw the same conclusions."

 

Some threads that discussed related points:

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/16710-wierwilles-stories-in-pfal/

 

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/13609-the-indian-that-was-healed-on-the-train-by-vp/

 

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/21689-keys-to-the-city/

"Wierwille's stories in pfal." "The Indiand that was healed on the train by vp."  "Keys to the city."

 

===============================

We get that vpw dragged his family along- except for JP-  to India for months.   We get that his denomination seemed to be against it, and made it clear he was not being sent as a spokesperson who could speak for them.   But why was he so insistent on going?

Looking at it right now, it looks like Mr "I want to be special and have special knowledge" got played by Dw Williams and those who played ball with him.  vpw wasn't very intelligent.  If they were playing him and offering secret knowledge and entre, he would go along.  (He's not the only one- it's been said that, if you put a velvet rope in front of a toilet, people would begin lining up for it. ) 

That's why HE went.   Why was it so important to bring his family? 

I have NO idea.  Anyone got anything?

Great post WordWolf ! Besides being an informative answer to Grace’s good question it got me thinking how cults manipulate the memories of followers. Looking back, I think there were certain attitudes fostered in TWI – like having a disdain for anything in my past BEFORE I joined TWI. It was generally considered “old man” or “natural man” stuff…worldly, sinful and a waste of time since it had nothing to do with “the reality of God’s Word”...kind of a weird exchange - my old authentic memories are out - the new cult collective memories are in...

                                                                         AND

Speaking of memories - in light of your post analyzing wierwille’s trip to India (btw thanks for the links to other relevant threads – I’ve saved those in my ever-expanding doc “some timelines in TWI history”) I am once again somewhat flabbergasted remembering my old mindset – how I uncritically accepted wierwille’s delusional memories – like the healing of the man’s lame arm in India…or the story of God telling him audibly that He would teach wierwille “The Word” like it has not been known since the first century…or (I think I heard this one from wierwille in the Advanced Class)  how God taught him about revelation by helping him pick the wining horses at the race track…yeah – it’s embarrassing how I used to be so enthralled (maybe even bewitched) by his embellished and fabricated stories.

I was inspired to respond to your post after recently watching an episode of the X-Files on Hulu. It’s season 11, episode 4 titled “The Lost Art of Forehead Sweat”      ( see  Wikipedia – X-Files episode The Lost Art of Forehead Sweat  )    . A key character in this episode is a scientist named Doctor They who has discovered how to shape collective memory. In the latter half of the episode, Doctor They in a bold and honest move actually clues Mulder in on the nature of his work – and throws in a reference to Orwell’s “1984”  – “who controls the past controls the future” – I read his novel ages ago but think his ideas are relevant to cult survivors (whether it’s a religious cult or even a political cult) – since in the imaginary world of the future George Orwell tells the story of most of the world being deceived by the historical negationism (also called denialism - historical negationism is the falsification or distortion of the historical record. It should not be conflated with historical revisionism, a broader term that extends to new evidenced or discoveries, fairly reasoned academic reinterpretations of history) and propaganda promoted by The Party…I did a little digging on that and found this analysis of the “1984” slogan “who controls the past controls the future”:

“This is actually part of a longer slogan, one that goes: 'Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present controls the past'. This slogan says everything you need to know about the ruling Inner Party's views on history. Basically, it means the Party believes it has the authority to rewrite history, because they control the present. They rewrite historical events, sometimes completely, fabricating events that never happened, or sometimes merely tweaking certain speeches or photographs.

This slogan, at its heart, means that not only can the Party rewrite history, but it can also control the flow of information, and the minds and thoughts of its citizens; therefore, the Party controls memory. Because the Party controls the memory of its citizens by controlling history, it also controls the present and the future. They can say or write anything they want, because they control the truth. To the Party, the truth isn't something as lame as 'what really happened.' No, to the Party, the truth is whatever they want it to be. And that could be anything, down to what country Oceania is at war with, or how many boots were produced in the last year.”

From      study.com academy lesson – slogans in “1984”        

 

== == == ==

By the way I am not a UFOs-aliens-paranormal-conspiracy theories-fanatic…As I expressed on another thread ( see  here  )  - I like the dramatic and creative way each episode shows the subtle interplay of critical thinking, one’s belief system, hunches and speculation work to solve a problem – and sometimes a problem is not solved and may even lead to more issues…

Grease Spot helps to activate and/or develop a critical mind…I never thought I would still be drawing on my cult experience and what lessons I’ve learned. I could be wrong on this opinion of mine – but it seems like for a few years now there’s been a cult-like movement growing - one that challenges or disparages facts and science and promotes conspiracies, fear and division. I bet a lot of this strange and unsettling noise seems familiar to many cult survivors…and so …Circling back to my reference of “The Lost Art of Forehead Sweat” episode on X-Files you might enjoy reading a Screen Rant article on the 10 funniest X-Files episodes written by Irina Curovic – here is an excerpt from her article  (oh and keep in mind this X-Files episode first aired Jan. 24th 2018, the episode was written and directed by Dan Morgan – who Curovic mentions right off the bat):

"...Morgan lampoons the show, comments on the current political climate, and questions whether the X-Files, as a show, even has a place in today's society. The elusive and surprisingly upfront Dr. They straight up tells Mulder that no one even knows what's meant by 'the truth' anymore, so the truth no longer matters, meaning the X-Files no longer has a purpose. Listening to Dr. They's take on today's society is funny, but, in hindsight, it may inspire you to ponder at length about our ugly reality."

from:  Screen Rant - 10 of the funniest X-Files episodes

Edited by T-Bone
typos & formatting
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Looking back, I think there were certain attitudes fostered in TWI – like having a disdain for anything in my past BEFORE I joined TWI. It was generally considered “old man” or “natural man” stuff…worldly, sinful and a waste of time since it had nothing to do with “the reality of God’s Word”...

It's how we were taught to diss everything our parents taught us - good or bad.  My parents were good, church-going folk, and I know they did their best to live by the standards of the Bible.  They helped anyone who needed help.  They supported my great grandparents - almost more than their own family - and later had my great-granddad to live with us in our small house.  They gave what they could to others (and they didn't have much to give, at one point not even enough food in the pantry).  They supported vulnerable people, trying to give a fresh start in life.  They sent or took us to church and Sunday school and did their best to raise us kids in decent, societally-acceptable ways: in which they succeeded.  Did their best to protect us from the naughtiness that teenagers get up to, and from wickedness of the world.

Why diss all that?  Why not be thankful for the good foundation that was instilled?  And build on that? 

(Well, the answer is obvious: who wants a Godly foundation when you intend to lead people into an ungodly life of debauchery and manipulation?)

I'm thankful for my parents.  They were far from perfect, but they did their **honest** best.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

After I left TWI,  I realized my pre-TWI life was just as valid as during TWI.  As posted above, we were taught to disavow our previous life as "old man" etc.  i came to see my life a single thread,  not a before and after. I reclaimed my previous life.  I made a pie chart of my life with time in TWI highlighted.  It's about a fifth of the pie and this point.  As time goes by, the TWI section gets smaller and smaller....

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Memories good, bad or indifferent...

I was just thinking a few days ago, as I prepared to visit a friend (in my "bubble") for our very quiet NY Eve celebration (a meal, a bottle of good wine, and a glass of port) than we once used to have to go to a massive Event in the auditorium.   Way Prods would put on a show (sometimes quite good) and there'd be few comedy bits.  And then it'd all cool down and there'd be prayers to bring in the new year.  Do they still do that, I wonder?  Can they even fill the front row in the auditorium nowadays?  Or do they all "social distance" and sit 6 or 16 rows apart?  (That'd "fill" the place.)

I wonder tradition when this started.  Lots of people see in the NY, to be sure, including many churches.  But I'm also aware that 31 Dec was (if I recall aright) VPW's birthday.  If the Event started in his lifetime, then it was likely just a big birthday party for him, not a "watchnight" service at all.

 

Anyway - I prefer what I did this year...! 
(Oh, and btw I stayed over, rather than have drunk enough to put me over the limit.)  :smilie_kool_aid: :smilie_kool_aid: :smilie_kool_aid: :smilie_kool_aid:

Happy new year to you all !

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, outandabout said:

After I left TWI,  I realized my pre-TWI life was just as valid as during TWI.  As posted above, we were taught to disavow our previous life as "old man" etc.  i came to see my life a single thread,  not a before and after. I reclaimed my previous life.  I made a pie chart of my life with time in TWI highlighted.  It's about a fifth of the pie and this point.  As time goes by, the TWI section gets smaller and smaller....

Wow, Out and About !!!  Great post!!!

That’s a great way to look at it…I think unconsciously I sometimes reflect on my life as before, during and after TWI – as if TWI was the most significant watershed moment of my entire life – like everything about me revolves around that…I like your idea of a pie chart – with more temporal distancing from TWI a pie chart would show its (TWI's) diminishing part-to-whole relationship with my entire life…I tend to rely on the power of focus when I think of my TWI experiences and get hyper-analytical.  But there’s a distinct advantage to an overview – seeing the big picture which tends to put everything in proper perspective. Thanks !!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Reconnected with an old Way friend over holidays.  It’s amazing how the perspective of the rank and file believer just does not have any pertinent details of the real putrid fruit of the leadership.  Ever since inception the Way has been hiding the insidious acts of its leaders and fleecing the unsuspecting kind hearted souls in the seats of their members homes.  They sit there because the leadership has zero investment in any community across the world.  
 

Church in the home means there is no responsibility on the organization to provide the extras most community churches provide freely.

The Way is an organization of takers not givers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

With that perspective I personally have many memories that I have of enjoyable times, growth, life events. 
 

It’s amazing how removing the marionette strings allows the puppet to move freely.

:wave:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...