;)--> John, our kids could sleep, snore and have the snoring transcribed and it would read better in print. :D--> That's some sorry stuff, and I don't say that to insult anyone, just calling it like I see it. There's GOT to be more in that class that would make it an interesting read. Guess not. It must have taken some serious hiney kissing, I mean some real chapped lips, for the Way Staff to buy in to oohing and aahing over that class if that's all they can say for it.
Speaking of kids, do yours have Improved B.S. Meters? Our kids have New Improved Detectors or so it seems. They pick up very quickly on stuff, people.
Strangest of all is this statement: The class addresses such practical and current issues as the creation of the heavens versus the "big bang theory" and the cause of the ice age.
When did the creation of the heavens become a practical issue? Since when did the cause of the ice age become a practical issue?
(snip)
Is this a copy/paste from a Way brochure, anyone know?
(snip)
Myself,
I'm fairly confident that, technically, this is noy a copy/paste.
However, in a PRACTICAL sense, it may as well be.
You're forgetting all the repetition ad nauseum. If someone says something,
it's going to be said over and over and over.
It will never be checked for errors, just repeated over and over.
Someone with no understanding of the word "practical" said that,
I hear ya Wordwolf, thanks. So you figure it's reworded regurg stuff. Well, I hope they don't think I'm calling them stupid, but really, whoever's putting up this fish wrap should pretend someone reading it might not know anything about what they're talking about and would need a simple, direct writeup instead of some cheesey comeon.
So you figure it's redribbled Present Advertising? Yeccch. That's a wet kiss I don't want. I'll take a cheek muwha! please, no more.
It's a drag. It would be great if some normal Wayfer would put, in their own words, what the WAP class and the Way is all about instead of acting like they're tap dancing on thin ice over the whole thing. It reeks of dishonesty.
"What's the WAP class all about? You'll get practical teaching that will really help you practically, in practical matters. Like the Ice Age. Ever wonder where all that ice really came from?"....
"Uh.....no".
"Well, it's in the class! so you'll have that question answered! Isn't that great! Can I save you a seat?"
"No. Tell me again, what's this class about?"
"Well, you have to take it to really find out. Would you like to come to a meeting that would tell you all about it?"
"No, could you just tell me more about it? How will it help my family situation?"
"Oh, by helping you to defeat your personal adversary! It's great, would you like me to pick you up?"
"No, what's a personal...never mind. Just tell me what it's all about. You say it will answer all my questions about the bible. I don't have any, I'm Catholic. What's a bible anyway?"
"Oh! yes, all your bible questions WILL be answered, especially the Catholic ones, and you'll be amazed at how much it answers them, and really well too. Can I put your name down?"
"No. No, you can't. I said I don't really have any...never mind. I have to go."
"Oh yes! Okay, I'll call you then. I know you'll like it".
A personal adversary... as opposed to an impersonal adversary? What's that, one that wants to beat me up but doesn't want to kiss me first?
The whole thing makes me dizzy. I need some Pent Up Water, or at least a 7 Up.
It's a drag. It would be great if some normal Wayfer would put, in their own words, what the WAP class and the Way is all about instead of acting like they're tap dancing on thin ice over the whole thing. It reeks of dishonesty.
(snip)
But, Wayfers, normal or not,
are not allowed to have their own words.
This WAS their attempt to use their own words,
and it was STILL loaded with twi advertising lingo.
You expected otherwise? Non-confirmity is bad and to be avoided.
Yes, I think that only mild closure would result from TWI issuing all the apologies demanded of them. They could do it tomorrow and some here would say to themselves, in the absence of great joy and fireworks, "Is that all there IS?"
True closure will only come as people get that pure love of God working again in their lives. Then any apologies would be icing on that cake, and would be received like the loving father received the prodigal son.
Mike said, "True closure will only come as people get that pure love of God working again in their lives."
I agree, except for a key word in your sentence here: "again." This would assume that it was working in their lives to begin with. For some, it was. I witnessed it. For some, it wasn't. I witnessed that, too.
I think you're right Wordwolf. What I'd like to see is something that would indicate a healthy change on the part of the humans. On a real level it's a non-issue. I feel for them but they're happy or so they say. It's their decision to make.
Barring some major change the Way Nash as a corporate dinosaur is going to swing it's big tail slowly if at all and likely only when their hungry or their belly's growlin. But actually the change to the organization could happen from the "outside" beleivers, rather than the inside of the BOT run mafia. Right now The Face of the Way is painted with the makeup New Knoxville puts on it. But the face of the people is always different than the corporate image. One is based on what the primary stockholders (BOT) want, and serving their goals. The other is the rank and file membership and employees.
Look at GS - so many people, so many perspectives and experiences, same corporate Way International everyone was exposed to at one time or another. Despite TWI's most ardent efforts it wasn't been able to control every member's thoughts, perceptions, questions and decisions while they were "in" and those are reflected now by the posters here. The Way Nash hasn't changed all that much, but life isn't over yet for those birds.
A little change goes a long way. The internet is only one media form and there's average people who don't use it at all. Figure, a separete site on the internet is a start in an organization that's so controlling, even if it's being controlled behind the scenes by corporate approval policies, spoken or assumed. Somewhere, there's got to be people in the Way who have, or will have, family homepages, personal hobby sites, personal sites, professional sites, who will use it as a means to articulate their own hearts, messages, interests, goals, plans, etc. In the context of their Way involved lives. In other words, what they're really all about and what they really believe and aspire to. That's the stuff that will ooze out, sooner or later and one way or another. If there's a breath of life at all in there, it will show it's happy little face and once that starts to cycle through and around good things can happen.
Maybe. Hope springs eternal. I have no vested interest either way other than as a former particpant I know that life goes and grows. I'm not where I thought I would be, 25 years ago. Reality is sweet.
They can do whatever they want, I'm just an observer. It's just one thing but hey, with our scintillating commentary and suggestions how can they not at least get an idea or two? :D-->
I agree with your observation on genuine love, and have posted to the same, as well as what we called "believing" back then being more mental assent than genuine believing.
What I meant to say is to "again focus on working genuine love." We were trying to work genuine love and genuine believing back then, but mostly fell short.
I truly believe that we will succeed with both if that becomes our focus, rather than demanding apologies and expecting satisfying closure should we get them.
I have been poking my face in on TWI personel every two or three years since 1989, and can report seeing in the past year "something that would indicate a healthy change."
Good for them, Mike. It will make their membership happier and healthier if they do. Historically the way to change the Way is to leave the Way and do whatever it is you've got in mind. In fact, an abstract images of the Way could actually be formed to include all the leavers with the TWI Believers. If you did that you'd get a totally new image of what it is. Not so much the way some of the splinter groups do where they say "we're doing it the way it should be done and the way VPW did it" but as a totally different and new image. I think the bible calls it the body of Christ.
Ya got yer southern belles and yer whacky uncles and aunts up in the nor'east. Those cuzzin's in the southwest. Never see those guys but hear they're still eating spicey food. :D--> Shoot, I got long lost relatives in China I've never even met before.
Get on board the Love Train!:D--> You don't need no ticket, but ya gotta hit the snack car first, it ROCKS!
Back in the 70's I reveled in the modern illustration of the Mystery (Jews and Gentiles FELLOW heirs) in the hippies, rednecks, jocks, academics, city slickers, and country hicks ALL getting along marvelously well.
It didn't last but 10 years, but that Shangri La image never left me, and it helps motivate me now as I plow through the snow and the bitter cold back.
I hear that the Word never lasted alive in believers more than ten years in any one city back in the first century.
Sorry, Mike, but also wrapped up in your statement, "true closure will only come as people get that pure love of God working again in their lives," is the assumption that people have stopped operating that "pure love of God."
I'm not sure what that means. It sounds about as nebulous as the description of the WAP class that socks referred to.
If my brother truly hurts me, I would demand that he repent and apologize, or at the very least show me that he is a changed man. I could continue to love him, but it would be from a safe distance.
Interesting.. it is still "down". Including the chat room. It is under construction until "we find something better"? I wonder. What is "better"? Probably something with software that tracks people who visit greasespot and locks them out.
Poor fellas, now if they want their chat room to run, they have to let all us "unclean beasts" in too. Maybe their "new and improved" chat room will require pre-registration with the site administrator, with approval of both your limb and region coordinator and the trunk office, or you just plain will not get in.
Looking at the "nice pleasant exchange" that the guy had with Igotout, I wondered how long it would last. Typical Vey tactic. If you run across them (the "copouts") just try to act nice, and when they are not looking, run like hell.
Forgive them? They won't LET you do it. Never. Sure, they will exchange a few pleasantries with you- "hows the kids, the wife, the job.." all while they hate you to the core- with a stupid smile on their face. Frigging Nazis.
I would love to be proved wrong. If they love their kids and grandkids they would straighten out this mess, at least in my opinion. Not a very good "inheritance" to leave your kids.
quote: What is "better"? Probably something with software that tracks people who visit greasespot and locks them out.
Poor fellas, now if they want their chat room to run, they have to let all us "unclean beasts" in too. Maybe their "new and improved" chat room will require pre-registration with the site administrator, with approval of both your limb and region coordinator and the trunk office, or you just plain will not get in.
Mr. H --- I think you are right. I am registered there under a different name, and am (basically) refused entrance each time I try to go see what's up.
I just don't care about it anymore, though it was a *diversion* to be able to visit for a bit, and see that the more things change, the more they remain the same.
"Same" sure is right. At this point I could care less too. I did my part once, and asked for reason and common sense from one of the old leaders. The answer I got was I was nuts for not staying on Loy's bandwagon. Haven't heard from him since- still in, high position too- even after all the crap about Loy hit the fan. How does he live with himself? I care, but I'm done- no more effort with him. I pray for his wife though- she had a really good heart- it's gotta be tough.
The sad part of it all is the response that this supposed "open" website got. The way I see it, some folk thought, "well, all our love and effort are finally going to pay off. Looks like they may really want to talk". Not in a million years.
They've done it once again. Taken advantage of and ignored at least one more person's love and effort. Once again. Just another nail in their coffin, as far as I'm concerned.
Disagree with him as much as you will, I don't think you could argue against the fact that Mike really loves them and holds hope, no matter how remote, of reconciliation.
I think it's far past being just a sad, twisted little cult- it's just pure evil.
The "mad dog" sign most of us put up around that organization needs to stay up- at least in my opinion. I really think that is the most "loving" thing to do.
Cripe- if anybody around here is gonna go "easy" on them, it would be Mike. And they subject him to the same crap. "Yeah, we answered the phone once and exchanged pleasantries". Unbelievable.
Apparently, after you once taste freedom- either by your choice, or if they put you out- you're "contaminated". Just don't want "your kind" around anymore. Don't need you is an understatement.
The emphasis on "you don't need expensive counselors" and "you don't need family counselling" if you take their class is extremely disturbing. Isn't that making medical claims that are unfounded and patently false?
How many people in TWI have/had chemical imbalances and other problems that they never sought help for because it was anathema in TWI to get help? Counselling is NOT expensive if you have health insurance, which most people not employed by TWI do have. It's also extremely helpful in addition to drug therapy.
I was having mini-panic attacks as much as 6 years ago in TWI and was told repeatedly that it was stress. All they did to help me was tell me to renew my mind and "believe God" bigger. My situation continued to decline but I couldn't tell anyone how I felt because it was a weakness and my fault. I also already knew what they would say, they'd been saying the same unhelpful things for years. By the time I got to the point where I would start crying at the slightest little thing I thought I was truly insane and possibly possessed.
Going to a psychiatrist and receiving a diagnosis of severe long term depressing, getting on anti-depressants and starting talk therapy with those unnecessary counselors has saved my life. I got out of TWI and divorced shortly after starting anti-depressants and started talk therapy right around that time, too. I can honestly say I feel much more normal and my family recognizes the huge change in my demeanor and outlook. I haven't felt this good in about 10 years and it's only getting better every day.
If TWI truly wanted to help people they wouldn't teach them that all they need are a few Bible verses and micro-mangaged lives to be healthy and have perfect harmony in the family. They would be more aware of changes in a person's attitude and state of mind to recognize when there's a need for help. They wouldn't stigmitize people who need psychiatric or psychological help and they would truly try to help people. I wonder how many people are still "in" who would be so much healthier and better off if they would seek professional help.
I have a friend who's teenaged daughter was diagnosed as being bipolar. I am so glad this mom had the good sense to take her daughter to a doctor! When she finally left TWI it was because her twig coordinators basically told all of the other teenagers to stay away from her daughter.
Likewise, I wonder if I ever would have gotten my son diagnosed if I had stayed in TWI. I knew there was a problem and even being outside of TWI it took several years and a lot of persistence to get him diagnosed. During my TWI years though, I was told over and over again I just wasn't disciplining him enough. But I knew it wasn't just that, I could see in him how hard he tried to behave well and stay in control of himself, but he just kept losing the battle. Now, with a diagnosis and the proper medication, he is doing much much better.
Mike, I hear you. Good times, good people, fellowshipping around the way, truth and life, Jesus Christ. LIfe has been good. Pretty weird and bad at times but good too.
You and I don't agree on everything, probably more than it appears within these discussions though I'd bet. But as human beings on the planet, we have everything in common. I have a lot in common with these people in Florida. And even those weasals in New Knoxville. Try as I might want to distance myself there is a common thread between us all, and even a clearer one if I'm to try and think like a Christian's taught to by Jesus Christ, although the lines of demarcation are just as clear too.
For years I tried to be what I thought I should be, caring, loving, all that stuff. A lot of the time I thought it was because of my effort. And it was to a degree, I did my best I guess. But when I left the formal structure of the Way I didn't have any pressure on me to be anything but a father and a husband and that's where I started from, Day 1. There was no way to get 15 years down the line without getting through that first day. Then the next. And the next. I've posted many times on the incredible force love has been all my life between my family and I. That's where I started because that I knew was right and good and would be a foundation for God in my life and whatever came next. If I couldn't get that right, what good's the rest of it?
If that's what I have to show for all my years, that's fine. But there was more beyond that, the force of love did it's job, and confirmed what I'd known all along - that there is a God and I can kind of relax a little and let it flow with Him. Most of the things in my life that I really value today haven't been the things I took in hand and made the way I wanted them, they're the things that came back to me or happened while I was doing that stuff. "Life happened while I was making other plans", to paraphrase. I love to see life happening te way it does, I'm always being surprised by what's around the next bend.
I don't want those hamsters in New Knoxville to do anything because I told them it was right to do and if they did I wouldn't want to take credit for it. I'd rather see that light go off in their heads just once and realize in their own hearts what's what. When they do it won't be something someone told them was right, it will be as real as their face and it will be something that no one will ever be able to take away from them.
But if it never does, to me - that's their business. I stay out of it, if it comes to me to do something I'd be happy too but I'm probably not going to be the one to do that. If our paths cross down the line, fine. If not, fine. Maybe something will cause that light to go off for them. If so, I'll be happy for everyone. I'd rather see that than see their lives wasted the way they're going.
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socks
Speaking of kids, do yours have Improved B.S. Meters? Our kids have New Improved Detectors or so it seems. They pick up very quickly on stuff, people.
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WordWolf
Myself,
I'm fairly confident that, technically, this is noy a copy/paste.
However, in a PRACTICAL sense, it may as well be.
You're forgetting all the repetition ad nauseum. If someone says something,
it's going to be said over and over and over.
It will never be checked for errors, just repeated over and over.
Someone with no understanding of the word "practical" said that,
and now EVERYONE says that.
NEVER subject any utterance of a mog to scrutiny.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Otherwise,
the house of cards falls down.
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socks
I hear ya Wordwolf, thanks. So you figure it's reworded regurg stuff. Well, I hope they don't think I'm calling them stupid, but really, whoever's putting up this fish wrap should pretend someone reading it might not know anything about what they're talking about and would need a simple, direct writeup instead of some cheesey comeon.
So you figure it's redribbled Present Advertising? Yeccch. That's a wet kiss I don't want. I'll take a cheek muwha! please, no more.
It's a drag. It would be great if some normal Wayfer would put, in their own words, what the WAP class and the Way is all about instead of acting like they're tap dancing on thin ice over the whole thing. It reeks of dishonesty.
"What's the WAP class all about? You'll get practical teaching that will really help you practically, in practical matters. Like the Ice Age. Ever wonder where all that ice really came from?"....
"Uh.....no".
"Well, it's in the class! so you'll have that question answered! Isn't that great! Can I save you a seat?"
"No. Tell me again, what's this class about?"
"Well, you have to take it to really find out. Would you like to come to a meeting that would tell you all about it?"
"No, could you just tell me more about it? How will it help my family situation?"
"Oh, by helping you to defeat your personal adversary! It's great, would you like me to pick you up?"
"No, what's a personal...never mind. Just tell me what it's all about. You say it will answer all my questions about the bible. I don't have any, I'm Catholic. What's a bible anyway?"
"Oh! yes, all your bible questions WILL be answered, especially the Catholic ones, and you'll be amazed at how much it answers them, and really well too. Can I put your name down?"
"No. No, you can't. I said I don't really have any...never mind. I have to go."
"Oh yes! Okay, I'll call you then. I know you'll like it".
A personal adversary... as opposed to an impersonal adversary? What's that, one that wants to beat me up but doesn't want to kiss me first?
The whole thing makes me dizzy. I need some Pent Up Water, or at least a 7 Up.
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WordWolf
But, Wayfers, normal or not,
are not allowed to have their own words.
This WAS their attempt to use their own words,
and it was STILL loaded with twi advertising lingo.
You expected otherwise? Non-confirmity is bad and to be avoided.
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Mike
rascal,
Yes, I think that only mild closure would result from TWI issuing all the apologies demanded of them. They could do it tomorrow and some here would say to themselves, in the absence of great joy and fireworks, "Is that all there IS?"
True closure will only come as people get that pure love of God working again in their lives. Then any apologies would be icing on that cake, and would be received like the loving father received the prodigal son.
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Linda Z
Mike said, "True closure will only come as people get that pure love of God working again in their lives."
I agree, except for a key word in your sentence here: "again." This would assume that it was working in their lives to begin with. For some, it was. I witnessed it. For some, it wasn't. I witnessed that, too.
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socks
I think you're right Wordwolf. What I'd like to see is something that would indicate a healthy change on the part of the humans. On a real level it's a non-issue. I feel for them but they're happy or so they say. It's their decision to make.
Barring some major change the Way Nash as a corporate dinosaur is going to swing it's big tail slowly if at all and likely only when their hungry or their belly's growlin. But actually the change to the organization could happen from the "outside" beleivers, rather than the inside of the BOT run mafia. Right now The Face of the Way is painted with the makeup New Knoxville puts on it. But the face of the people is always different than the corporate image. One is based on what the primary stockholders (BOT) want, and serving their goals. The other is the rank and file membership and employees.
Look at GS - so many people, so many perspectives and experiences, same corporate Way International everyone was exposed to at one time or another. Despite TWI's most ardent efforts it wasn't been able to control every member's thoughts, perceptions, questions and decisions while they were "in" and those are reflected now by the posters here. The Way Nash hasn't changed all that much, but life isn't over yet for those birds.
A little change goes a long way. The internet is only one media form and there's average people who don't use it at all. Figure, a separete site on the internet is a start in an organization that's so controlling, even if it's being controlled behind the scenes by corporate approval policies, spoken or assumed. Somewhere, there's got to be people in the Way who have, or will have, family homepages, personal hobby sites, personal sites, professional sites, who will use it as a means to articulate their own hearts, messages, interests, goals, plans, etc. In the context of their Way involved lives. In other words, what they're really all about and what they really believe and aspire to. That's the stuff that will ooze out, sooner or later and one way or another. If there's a breath of life at all in there, it will show it's happy little face and once that starts to cycle through and around good things can happen.
Maybe. Hope springs eternal. I have no vested interest either way other than as a former particpant I know that life goes and grows. I'm not where I thought I would be, 25 years ago. Reality is sweet.
They can do whatever they want, I'm just an observer. It's just one thing but hey, with our scintillating commentary and suggestions how can they not at least get an idea or two?
:D-->
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Mike
Linda Z,
I plead guilty to poor grammar there.
I agree with your observation on genuine love, and have posted to the same, as well as what we called "believing" back then being more mental assent than genuine believing.
What I meant to say is to "again focus on working genuine love." We were trying to work genuine love and genuine believing back then, but mostly fell short.
I truly believe that we will succeed with both if that becomes our focus, rather than demanding apologies and expecting satisfying closure should we get them.
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Mike
socks,
I have been poking my face in on TWI personel every two or three years since 1989, and can report seeing in the past year "something that would indicate a healthy change."
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Linda Z
Mike, Mike, Mike. We don't need to "work love." We simply need to love.
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Mike
That was an abreviation to "work the Word which defines love and helps us bring into manifestation the love that comes in the new birth package"
I abreviated that to spare some readers here of having to see me say (again) that the only real way to work the Word is to work PFAL.
:D-->
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socks
Good for them, Mike. It will make their membership happier and healthier if they do. Historically the way to change the Way is to leave the Way and do whatever it is you've got in mind. In fact, an abstract images of the Way could actually be formed to include all the leavers with the TWI Believers. If you did that you'd get a totally new image of what it is. Not so much the way some of the splinter groups do where they say "we're doing it the way it should be done and the way VPW did it" but as a totally different and new image. I think the bible calls it the body of Christ.
Ya got yer southern belles and yer whacky uncles and aunts up in the nor'east. Those cuzzin's in the southwest. Never see those guys but hear they're still eating spicey food.
:D--> Shoot, I got long lost relatives in China I've never even met before.
Get on board the Love Train!
:D--> You don't need no ticket, but ya gotta hit the snack car first, it ROCKS!
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Mike
socks,
Back in the 70's I reveled in the modern illustration of the Mystery (Jews and Gentiles FELLOW heirs) in the hippies, rednecks, jocks, academics, city slickers, and country hicks ALL getting along marvelously well.
It didn't last but 10 years, but that Shangri La image never left me, and it helps motivate me now as I plow through the snow and the bitter cold back.
I hear that the Word never lasted alive in believers more than ten years in any one city back in the first century.
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shazdancer
Sorry, Mike, but also wrapped up in your statement, "true closure will only come as people get that pure love of God working again in their lives," is the assumption that people have stopped operating that "pure love of God."
I'm not sure what that means. It sounds about as nebulous as the description of the WAP class that socks referred to.
If my brother truly hurts me, I would demand that he repent and apologize, or at the very least show me that he is a changed man. I could continue to love him, but it would be from a safe distance.
Regards,
Shaz
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Ham
Interesting.. it is still "down". Including the chat room. It is under construction until "we find something better"? I wonder. What is "better"? Probably something with software that tracks people who visit greasespot and locks them out.
Poor fellas, now if they want their chat room to run, they have to let all us "unclean beasts" in too. Maybe their "new and improved" chat room will require pre-registration with the site administrator, with approval of both your limb and region coordinator and the trunk office, or you just plain will not get in.
Looking at the "nice pleasant exchange" that the guy had with Igotout, I wondered how long it would last. Typical Vey tactic. If you run across them (the "copouts") just try to act nice, and when they are not looking, run like hell.
Forgive them? They won't LET you do it. Never. Sure, they will exchange a few pleasantries with you- "hows the kids, the wife, the job.." all while they hate you to the core- with a stupid smile on their face. Frigging Nazis.
I would love to be proved wrong. If they love their kids and grandkids they would straighten out this mess, at least in my opinion. Not a very good "inheritance" to leave your kids.
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dmiller
Mr. H --- I think you are right. I am registered there under a different name, and am (basically) refused entrance each time I try to go see what's up.
I just don't care about it anymore, though it was a *diversion* to be able to visit for a bit, and see that the more things change, the more they remain the same.
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Ham
"Same" sure is right. At this point I could care less too. I did my part once, and asked for reason and common sense from one of the old leaders. The answer I got was I was nuts for not staying on Loy's bandwagon. Haven't heard from him since- still in, high position too- even after all the crap about Loy hit the fan. How does he live with himself? I care, but I'm done- no more effort with him. I pray for his wife though- she had a really good heart- it's gotta be tough.
The sad part of it all is the response that this supposed "open" website got. The way I see it, some folk thought, "well, all our love and effort are finally going to pay off. Looks like they may really want to talk". Not in a million years.
They've done it once again. Taken advantage of and ignored at least one more person's love and effort. Once again. Just another nail in their coffin, as far as I'm concerned.
Disagree with him as much as you will, I don't think you could argue against the fact that Mike really loves them and holds hope, no matter how remote, of reconciliation.
I think it's far past being just a sad, twisted little cult- it's just pure evil.
The "mad dog" sign most of us put up around that organization needs to stay up- at least in my opinion. I really think that is the most "loving" thing to do.
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Ham
Cripe- if anybody around here is gonna go "easy" on them, it would be Mike. And they subject him to the same crap. "Yeah, we answered the phone once and exchanged pleasantries". Unbelievable.
Apparently, after you once taste freedom- either by your choice, or if they put you out- you're "contaminated". Just don't want "your kind" around anymore. Don't need you is an understatement.
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Belle
The emphasis on "you don't need expensive counselors" and "you don't need family counselling" if you take their class is extremely disturbing. Isn't that making medical claims that are unfounded and patently false?
How many people in TWI have/had chemical imbalances and other problems that they never sought help for because it was anathema in TWI to get help? Counselling is NOT expensive if you have health insurance, which most people not employed by TWI do have. It's also extremely helpful in addition to drug therapy.
I was having mini-panic attacks as much as 6 years ago in TWI and was told repeatedly that it was stress. All they did to help me was tell me to renew my mind and "believe God" bigger. My situation continued to decline but I couldn't tell anyone how I felt because it was a weakness and my fault. I also already knew what they would say, they'd been saying the same unhelpful things for years. By the time I got to the point where I would start crying at the slightest little thing I thought I was truly insane and possibly possessed.
Going to a psychiatrist and receiving a diagnosis of severe long term depressing, getting on anti-depressants and starting talk therapy with those unnecessary counselors has saved my life. I got out of TWI and divorced shortly after starting anti-depressants and started talk therapy right around that time, too. I can honestly say I feel much more normal and my family recognizes the huge change in my demeanor and outlook. I haven't felt this good in about 10 years and it's only getting better every day.
If TWI truly wanted to help people they wouldn't teach them that all they need are a few Bible verses and micro-mangaged lives to be healthy and have perfect harmony in the family. They would be more aware of changes in a person's attitude and state of mind to recognize when there's a need for help. They wouldn't stigmitize people who need psychiatric or psychological help and they would truly try to help people. I wonder how many people are still "in" who would be so much healthier and better off if they would seek professional help.
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Ham
This sounds all so familiar to me for some reason.
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Abigail
Belle,
I have a friend who's teenaged daughter was diagnosed as being bipolar. I am so glad this mom had the good sense to take her daughter to a doctor! When she finally left TWI it was because her twig coordinators basically told all of the other teenagers to stay away from her daughter.
Likewise, I wonder if I ever would have gotten my son diagnosed if I had stayed in TWI. I knew there was a problem and even being outside of TWI it took several years and a lot of persistence to get him diagnosed. During my TWI years though, I was told over and over again I just wasn't disciplining him enough. But I knew it wasn't just that, I could see in him how hard he tried to behave well and stay in control of himself, but he just kept losing the battle. Now, with a diagnosis and the proper medication, he is doing much much better.
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socks
Mike, I hear you. Good times, good people, fellowshipping around the way, truth and life, Jesus Christ. LIfe has been good. Pretty weird and bad at times but good too.
You and I don't agree on everything, probably more than it appears within these discussions though I'd bet. But as human beings on the planet, we have everything in common. I have a lot in common with these people in Florida. And even those weasals in New Knoxville. Try as I might want to distance myself there is a common thread between us all, and even a clearer one if I'm to try and think like a Christian's taught to by Jesus Christ, although the lines of demarcation are just as clear too.
For years I tried to be what I thought I should be, caring, loving, all that stuff. A lot of the time I thought it was because of my effort. And it was to a degree, I did my best I guess. But when I left the formal structure of the Way I didn't have any pressure on me to be anything but a father and a husband and that's where I started from, Day 1. There was no way to get 15 years down the line without getting through that first day. Then the next. And the next. I've posted many times on the incredible force love has been all my life between my family and I. That's where I started because that I knew was right and good and would be a foundation for God in my life and whatever came next. If I couldn't get that right, what good's the rest of it?
If that's what I have to show for all my years, that's fine. But there was more beyond that, the force of love did it's job, and confirmed what I'd known all along - that there is a God and I can kind of relax a little and let it flow with Him. Most of the things in my life that I really value today haven't been the things I took in hand and made the way I wanted them, they're the things that came back to me or happened while I was doing that stuff. "Life happened while I was making other plans", to paraphrase. I love to see life happening te way it does, I'm always being surprised by what's around the next bend.
I don't want those hamsters in New Knoxville to do anything because I told them it was right to do and if they did I wouldn't want to take credit for it. I'd rather see that light go off in their heads just once and realize in their own hearts what's what. When they do it won't be something someone told them was right, it will be as real as their face and it will be something that no one will ever be able to take away from them.
But if it never does, to me - that's their business. I stay out of it, if it comes to me to do something I'd be happy too but I'm probably not going to be the one to do that. If our paths cross down the line, fine. If not, fine. Maybe something will cause that light to go off for them. If so, I'll be happy for everyone. I'd rather see that than see their lives wasted the way they're going.
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Mike
socks,
It's good to see that people are thinking about love... after all these years.
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shazdancer
Aw, Mike, most of us never stopped! We just won't bend over and put a "kick me" sign on our tushies in the name of love anymore.
Regards,
Shaz
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