He said" the ministry always promoted that your family came before the ministry, but how can that be applied when we were suppossed to run this class and that class and witness,family first just wasn't possible. You wouldn't have thought to ever say 'no' to running a class. Never put anything before your family
TWI publically taught that the priorities were:
1. God
2. Spouse (if you had one)
3. Children (if you had them)
4. The work of the ministry (as distinct from God)
5. Secular Job, school, etc
But, as most of us know, the practical application was much different. You were doing God's will by running this class; you were taking care of your spouse by driving to Ohio and sitting through the advanced class; it was best for your children to be at such-and-such an event.
During my time in TWI, especially the last five years, the pressure to do everything TWI was constant.
When I was in grad school, my Branch Leader asked me to assist him in running a class. I thought about it for a few moments and told him No. I was in a critical time in my studies. He accepted that completely. He said he had asked becauase he thought I would do a good job but had no problem with my passing on the opportunity. Ah, those were simpler times.
George that is a great experience and I found that at TWI at one point as well.
It still doesn't change the fact that the more training we had in TWI the more responsibilities that were heaped upon us, without option of saying no if we were to remain with ministry on a civil basis. Eventually we just left TWI ........ for many reasons but mostly from watching our children and others suffer. Fearful of going to fellowship fearful of not going ..... either way fear was induced in many.
I attended a Sunday School at a church since leaving and to my surprise....................... if they think you would be "good'' at something, or want you to take a ''class", do you know what they say?
You'll never guess.
Go ahead, guess.......................
You ready? ok!
They say "why don't you PRAY about it and ask God, and see if He LEADS you in this direction, to see if this is for you at this time."
OMG
Did I hear that right? You mean, no condemnation, no offense to you who asked if I don't?
To actually put GOD in the picture?
That is the Prov 3 way.
"In ALL your ways ACKNOWLEDGE HIM, and HE WILL direct your paths"...
Missed out on that in TWI
We were taught that any SUGGESTION from leadership was really "as if God spoke".
I don't think i asked God for anything. I just thanked him for everything.......and did what I was told.
Bliss- very wise father in law......I learned to late. you cannot redeem that time back. so I learned to value my time now with family and stay away from heavy schedules.
I sure agree with whoever said that not everybody has a ministry like Paul's. I spent a few years where TWI was my #1 priority and it wasn't the worst experience of my life, but I left in '94. I didn't have to stop owning and start renting. I didn't have to change jobs or move...OR ELSE!!!
Right now I feel like somebody who did military service: I did my "hitch" in TWI and now I'm done. I don't love God any less; I just don't have to take daily marching orders from anyone. Well...maybe my wife.
Proverbs 3: In ALL(every aspect of daily life) your(like minded believer) ways ACKNOWLEDGE HIM(God and the household, especially leadership, ESPECIALLY way corpse and MOST ESPECIALLY the MAN OF GOD), and HE (God and Leadership and THE MOG) WILL (absolutley) direct(its an imparative!!!) your(the believer) paths(now this is plural, so that is a figure of speach.. he already said in all at the beginning of the verse, so to put paths in the plural puts the emphasis on being in the household"...
now, as silly as that sounds. This is a realistic example of stuff I was taught in TWI.
Dare I post? I've never done this before...here or anywhere in cyberspace (other than email).
I recently left TWI after 28 years. Deep discontent is an apt description but perhaps not intense enough. I journaled many times the past years (especially the past 16 months) about the deep , barren, empty hole in my soul...a longing for honest, sweet, tender, GENUINE fellowship.....something I personally experienced my first 15 years in TWI. (I realize some of you did not have that experience.)
I'm on my 3rd reading of ...Spiritual Abuse. For me, it has been one of the best books I've read that cuts through to the very heart of legalism. That legalism kills joy and the result is a barren soul and/or a tortured soul. Barren from neglect (a very subtle type of abuse because there are no obvious scars), or tortured from outright abuse of power.
Since I recently left & have told my TWI friends, many (who have all been around at least 15 years) have stated that something is missing for them in TWI, but they feel they can't leave. I know some stay for family/friends. Some stay because they believe TWI can still be salvaged. Some stay out of fear of the unknown. Some stay out of "equity rescue."
From my observation, folks who were around in TWI-I and some TWI-II have experienced or are experiencing that deep discontent. TWI-III however, is simply a tortilla shell; there is very little substance. If all a person has known is TWI-III there is nothing to hold him/her or to push him/her away. They have nothing to compare what was with what is, so there is not necessarily/obviously anything missing. There may be no substance, but still the IIIers have lost nothing. And some Iers, IIers, and IIIers are not discontented; they have good leadership that provides an atmosphere of growth in the local fellowship.
Well, I think I deserve a congratulations for posting. Maybe I'll post again sometime.
Re: "Well, I think I deserve a congratulations for posting. Maybe I'll post again sometime"
Indeed, and let me be the first. Congrats and welcome to the real world (I mean that in a good sense).
Those of us that went through earlier incarnations of WayWorld, may have had some more pleasant smoke blown up our, um, nether regions, but it was still just smoke. The fact that Mr. Wierwille made his flakey conjob more palatable does little to mitigate the fact that we still wasted whatever time we invested in the putrid little cult.
With any luck, maybe we can make better use of what we've got left...
Thanks for stopping in and posting. You are right about how things were different during the different periods.
The sensational feelings were highs and lows and power and burn outs and love and hate and so on and so on ........ but feeling like a tortilla shell ...... empty, a nothingness ..... truly sad.
Hiya and congratulations, I Love Bagpipes. Welcome to this marketplace of ideas and ideals.
28 years - This can't be easy or painless for you. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
Was there any one thing that finally did it for you, the final straw, so to speak?
(and re: WordWolf's post, if it's too personal or gives away identifying information, you don't have to tell us. It's well known the WayGB monitor this site, gathering personal information to use in hostile confrontations.)
Yes, there was a final straw......but not from TWI. I had already left in my heart. I continued to stay for my family. Yet...it was someone in my family....something said....not about TWI...but about lonliness. I realized my state of emptiness was having a deep effect on those I love the most, my kids. That was the straw..I stayed in for them and I've left for them.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
Wordwolf, I don't know what a sticky is. I added to my profile, but don't know it it will show up or not.
Merry Christmas
(I've been saying that "C" word a lot lately....just to help the detox.)
Yes, there was a final straw......but not from TWI. I had already left in my heart. I continued to stay for my family. Yet...it was someone in my family....something said....not about TWI...but about lonliness. I realized my state of emptiness was having a deep effect on those I love the most, my kids. That was the straw..I stayed in for them and I've left for them.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
You "got sick and tired of being sick and tired".
That's not uncommon around here.
WordWolf, I don't know what a sticky is. I added to my profile, but don't know it it will show up or not.
Your profile is showing the added stuff.
A "sticky" is a topic on a messageboard that has been "stuck" to the top.
Normally, threads/topics that are posted on most recently get bumped to the top.
A "sticky" remains stuck on top so it's not lost.
Usually, they're reserved for important instructions or announcements.
One important piece of advice for messageboards is:
"read the stickys BEFORE posting".
That's why they're there.
*looks*
On this board, the official label is that the topic/thread was "pinned",
I left cause of the hurt my outside family saw in me. The pressure on my life,while in..it sure didnt represent the Abundant Life, I starting question the doctrine..The Law and doctine of the Way is dangerous according to Gods Word..which I believe still.
Be generous to yourself and to you children and rejoice in your freedom..:) be not afraid!
Dare I post? I've never done this before...here or anywhere in cyberspace (other than email).
I recently left TWI after 28 years. Deep discontent is an apt description but perhaps not intense enough. I journaled many times the past years (especially the past 16 months) about the deep , barren, empty hole in my soul...a longing for honest, sweet, tender, GENUINE fellowship.....something I personally experienced my first 15 years in TWI. (I realize some of you did not have that experience.)
I'm on my 3rd reading of ...Spiritual Abuse. For me, it has been one of the best books I've read that cuts through to the very heart of legalism. That legalism kills joy and the result is a barren soul and/or a tortured soul. Barren from neglect (a very subtle type of abuse because there are no obvious scars), or tortured from outright abuse of power.
Welcome, I Love Bagpipes
When I exited twi some eight years ago, the corps were being instructed to NOT have sweet, tender fellowship with those in their branch. According to lcm-mandates, the corps were NOT to engage in social activity (ie.....movies, fun get-togethers, dinner invites) with "those whom they were leading"........but were to keep a protocol and distance. LCM wanted us to draw a line in the sand on this issue.
Gee......for us full-time corps, he imposed paycuts, no pets, no gifts (bribes??), no pregnancy without bot permission, time management schedules, unwarranted confrontation sessions, etc. etc. AND NOW HE WAS IMPOSING DIRECTIVES ON OUR FELLOWSHIP TIME WITH OTHERS !!!
Where was it going to stop? Yeah........you're right, DEEP DISCONTENT is/was not INTENSE ENOUGH.
Perhaps, rosalie has lightened up on these "keep-your-distance corps directives".........but the elitist attitude remains. Twi has built this CASTE SYSTEM......brick by brick, corps meeting after corps meeting.
And, wierewille was twi's ultimate ELITIST.
IMO, the decades of twi bureaucracy have layered distance and discontent and disdain with twi's leadership and that gangrene has, now, manifested itself on the field. So yeah.......one can feel empty, barren and lonely even in the midst of an organization. There are SO MANY breakdowns in twi......on the spiritual, mental and emotional levels that it takes a board like Greasespot Cafe to expose them.. :)
Congratulations on posting here. Insightful stuff.
Welcome to the Cafe! Since it's afternoon, may I interest you in some CHRISTMAS cookies? ;)
I've only been out just over a year, so I am all too familiar with the feeling of lonliness and discontentment while being torn between wanting something "better" - something "outside the walls of Zion", yet wanting to keep the family stable and in tact.
My never TWI family raised me in a Christian home and all my friends growing up were Christian of one faith or another. I saw them living the lives I wanted so badly. I saw them happy, healthy, prospering, peaceful and just plain enjoying life. It became harder and harder to reconcile THAT with the fact that that life was what TWI said we were supposed to have and that they had the audacity to say that we DID have. If we didn't have it, it wasn't TWI's fault, it was our fault because we were obviously "missing it" or out of "alignment and harmony" somehow.
You make a great point about how much harder it is for those who were around during some "good times" to leave. I suspect those good times make people hope and wish that there's hope for getting back to those days. Me? I never had any really good times like that in TWI, so when I finally came around to realizing I had been hoodwinked and was being destroyed by the spiritual and verbal abuse, it was actually pretty easy to make the decision to leave. It was fighting for five years to try to get my husband to see the same things and deciding I had to leave whether it meant divorce or not that was the hard part.
Goey, who posts here has a signature line that says something along the lines of the good times in TWI that he remembers never really happened. Upon reflection, I think there are others who would agree with that.
It's scary as all get out to post online for the first few times. Trust me, it gets easier. :) Glad you're here and I look forward to "reading" more of you!
One innie admitted to me that twi is struggling with this debt/mortgage issue and FEARS THAT THERE MIGHT BE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT IF TWI REVERSES THIS MANDATE.
Several categories could be affected by this:
1) Those who sold their homes and are renting to accommodate twi mandates.
2) Those who refrained from purchasing a home so as to comply with twi doctrine.
3) Those who took on a mortgage.....and were "demoted" in twi's caste system and succombed to humiliation and/or degradation for doing so.
Loss opportunities, loss equity, and loss of civil liberties have been THE RESULT of twi's manipulation and micro-management. Shame on them.
Deep Discontent just might make its way towards Vicious Vindication.
Yeppers, Skyrider, I've heard that, too. I'd love to see it happen! :P
I don't have a leg to stand on if there was a lawsuit, but I know enough and could help document enough and provide witness statements for many people in my area if they were to participate in one. Heck, I'd contact some of the people to let them know there was a lawsuit and encourage them to join in if it were to come to that.
Most of those people could also win slander suits very easily. "They love money more than they love God." was the common insult thrown out about those folks among other things....
I also still have tapes of craig from STSs going off on people who refuse to sell their homes.
It all depends on the commitment and mind-set of the believer who is selling the house, whether it is a right thing or a wrong thing.
Here's what twi might say to those who made a commitment with them:
Matthew 19:29: And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
Bear in mind that making commitments to God, whether with twi or not, may include these things.
Bear in mind that making commitments to God, whether with twi or not, may include these things.
Yeah......and bear in mind that making commitments with an allegiance to a blood-sucking cult may include these things: INTIMIDATION, MANIPULATION, ABUSE, DECEIVING, HYPOCRISY, VAIN WORSHIP.
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1. God
2. Spouse (if you had one)
3. Children (if you had them)
4. The work of the ministry (as distinct from God)
5. Secular Job, school, etc
But, as most of us know, the practical application was much different. You were doing God's will by running this class; you were taking care of your spouse by driving to Ohio and sitting through the advanced class; it was best for your children to be at such-and-such an event.
During my time in TWI, especially the last five years, the pressure to do everything TWI was constant.
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GeorgeStGeorge
When I was in grad school, my Branch Leader asked me to assist him in running a class. I thought about it for a few moments and told him No. I was in a critical time in my studies. He accepted that completely. He said he had asked becauase he thought I would do a good job but had no problem with my passing on the opportunity. Ah, those were simpler times.
George
My BC was 9th Corps, incidentally.
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Digitalis
George that is a great experience and I found that at TWI at one point as well.
It still doesn't change the fact that the more training we had in TWI the more responsibilities that were heaped upon us, without option of saying no if we were to remain with ministry on a civil basis. Eventually we just left TWI ........ for many reasons but mostly from watching our children and others suffer. Fearful of going to fellowship fearful of not going ..... either way fear was induced in many.
Digi
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bliss
I attended a Sunday School at a church since leaving and to my surprise....................... if they think you would be "good'' at something, or want you to take a ''class", do you know what they say?
You'll never guess.
Go ahead, guess.......................
You ready? ok!
They say "why don't you PRAY about it and ask God, and see if He LEADS you in this direction, to see if this is for you at this time."
OMG
Did I hear that right? You mean, no condemnation, no offense to you who asked if I don't?
To actually put GOD in the picture?
That is the Prov 3 way.
"In ALL your ways ACKNOWLEDGE HIM, and HE WILL direct your paths"...
Missed out on that in TWI
We were taught that any SUGGESTION from leadership was really "as if God spoke".
I don't think i asked God for anything. I just thanked him for everything.......and did what I was told.
You know "did the 4 D's".
Funny, I don't recall God being in them. :blink:
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likeaneagle
Bliss- very wise father in law......I learned to late. you cannot redeem that time back. so I learned to value my time now with family and stay away from heavy schedules.
Edited by likeaeagleLink to comment
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johniam
I sure agree with whoever said that not everybody has a ministry like Paul's. I spent a few years where TWI was my #1 priority and it wasn't the worst experience of my life, but I left in '94. I didn't have to stop owning and start renting. I didn't have to change jobs or move...OR ELSE!!!
Right now I feel like somebody who did military service: I did my "hitch" in TWI and now I'm done. I don't love God any less; I just don't have to take daily marching orders from anyone. Well...maybe my wife.
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nandon
BLISS
TWI version of what you wrote:
Proverbs 3: In ALL(every aspect of daily life) your(like minded believer) ways ACKNOWLEDGE HIM(God and the household, especially leadership, ESPECIALLY way corpse and MOST ESPECIALLY the MAN OF GOD), and HE (God and Leadership and THE MOG) WILL (absolutley) direct(its an imparative!!!) your(the believer) paths(now this is plural, so that is a figure of speach.. he already said in all at the beginning of the verse, so to put paths in the plural puts the emphasis on being in the household"...
now, as silly as that sounds. This is a realistic example of stuff I was taught in TWI.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
johniam
amen to your last post!
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I Love Bagpipes
I recently left TWI after 28 years. Deep discontent is an apt description but perhaps not intense enough. I journaled many times the past years (especially the past 16 months) about the deep , barren, empty hole in my soul...a longing for honest, sweet, tender, GENUINE fellowship.....something I personally experienced my first 15 years in TWI. (I realize some of you did not have that experience.)
I'm on my 3rd reading of ...Spiritual Abuse. For me, it has been one of the best books I've read that cuts through to the very heart of legalism. That legalism kills joy and the result is a barren soul and/or a tortured soul. Barren from neglect (a very subtle type of abuse because there are no obvious scars), or tortured from outright abuse of power.
Since I recently left & have told my TWI friends, many (who have all been around at least 15 years) have stated that something is missing for them in TWI, but they feel they can't leave. I know some stay for family/friends. Some stay because they believe TWI can still be salvaged. Some stay out of fear of the unknown. Some stay out of "equity rescue."
From my observation, folks who were around in TWI-I and some TWI-II have experienced or are experiencing that deep discontent. TWI-III however, is simply a tortilla shell; there is very little substance. If all a person has known is TWI-III there is nothing to hold him/her or to push him/her away. They have nothing to compare what was with what is, so there is not necessarily/obviously anything missing. There may be no substance, but still the IIIers have lost nothing. And some Iers, IIers, and IIIers are not discontented; they have good leadership that provides an atmosphere of growth in the local fellowship.
Well, I think I deserve a congratulations for posting. Maybe I'll post again sometime.
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George Aar
Bagpiper,
Re: "Well, I think I deserve a congratulations for posting. Maybe I'll post again sometime"
Indeed, and let me be the first. Congrats and welcome to the real world (I mean that in a good sense).
Those of us that went through earlier incarnations of WayWorld, may have had some more pleasant smoke blown up our, um, nether regions, but it was still just smoke. The fact that Mr. Wierwille made his flakey conjob more palatable does little to mitigate the fact that we still wasted whatever time we invested in the putrid little cult.
With any luck, maybe we can make better use of what we've got left...
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Digitalis
Welcome Bagpipes,
Thanks for stopping in and posting. You are right about how things were different during the different periods.
The sensational feelings were highs and lows and power and burn outs and love and hate and so on and so on ........ but feeling like a tortilla shell ...... empty, a nothingness ..... truly sad.
Please stop by again ........ you made me think.
Digi
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WordWolf
Greetings, "I Love Bagpipes."
You must tell us if there's something you'd prefer we call you.
For someone who's never posted anywhere, you're off to a good start.
Your profile is nicely anonymous. Anyone trying to track you down
would have to work hard to get ANYTHING, and sit and sit and try
to piece together all your posts. :)
I posted some introductory information that has been placed
as a "sticky" at the top of this forum. I can't really improve
on the advice there.
*restrains himself from retyping the sticky*
Enjoy your stay.
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Kevlar2000
Hiya and congratulations, I Love Bagpipes. Welcome to this marketplace of ideas and ideals.
28 years - This can't be easy or painless for you. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
Was there any one thing that finally did it for you, the final straw, so to speak?
(and re: WordWolf's post, if it's too personal or gives away identifying information, you don't have to tell us. It's well known the WayGB monitor this site, gathering personal information to use in hostile confrontations.)
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I Love Bagpipes
Yes, there was a final straw......but not from TWI. I had already left in my heart. I continued to stay for my family. Yet...it was someone in my family....something said....not about TWI...but about lonliness. I realized my state of emptiness was having a deep effect on those I love the most, my kids. That was the straw..I stayed in for them and I've left for them.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
Wordwolf, I don't know what a sticky is. I added to my profile, but don't know it it will show up or not.
Merry Christmas
(I've been saying that "C" word a lot lately....just to help the detox.)
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WordWolf
You "got sick and tired of being sick and tired".
That's not uncommon around here.
Your profile is showing the added stuff.A "sticky" is a topic on a messageboard that has been "stuck" to the top.
Normally, threads/topics that are posted on most recently get bumped to the top.
A "sticky" remains stuck on top so it's not lost.
Usually, they're reserved for important instructions or announcements.
One important piece of advice for messageboards is:
"read the stickys BEFORE posting".
That's why they're there.
*looks*
On this board, the official label is that the topic/thread was "pinned",
which may make more sense to you.
Here's a direct link to that thread.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7913
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likeaneagle
I left cause of the hurt my outside family saw in me. The pressure on my life,while in..it sure didnt represent the Abundant Life, I starting question the doctrine..The Law and doctine of the Way is dangerous according to Gods Word..which I believe still.
Be generous to yourself and to you children and rejoice in your freedom..:) be not afraid!
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skyrider
Welcome, I Love Bagpipes
When I exited twi some eight years ago, the corps were being instructed to NOT have sweet, tender fellowship with those in their branch. According to lcm-mandates, the corps were NOT to engage in social activity (ie.....movies, fun get-togethers, dinner invites) with "those whom they were leading"........but were to keep a protocol and distance. LCM wanted us to draw a line in the sand on this issue.
Gee......for us full-time corps, he imposed paycuts, no pets, no gifts (bribes??), no pregnancy without bot permission, time management schedules, unwarranted confrontation sessions, etc. etc. AND NOW HE WAS IMPOSING DIRECTIVES ON OUR FELLOWSHIP TIME WITH OTHERS !!!
Where was it going to stop? Yeah........you're right, DEEP DISCONTENT is/was not INTENSE ENOUGH.
Perhaps, rosalie has lightened up on these "keep-your-distance corps directives".........but the elitist attitude remains. Twi has built this CASTE SYSTEM......brick by brick, corps meeting after corps meeting.
And, wierewille was twi's ultimate ELITIST.
IMO, the decades of twi bureaucracy have layered distance and discontent and disdain with twi's leadership and that gangrene has, now, manifested itself on the field. So yeah.......one can feel empty, barren and lonely even in the midst of an organization. There are SO MANY breakdowns in twi......on the spiritual, mental and emotional levels that it takes a board like Greasespot Cafe to expose them.. :)
Congratulations on posting here. Insightful stuff.
Always nice to hear from those who recently left.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
welcome bagpipes!!
thank you for your insightful posy
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Belle
HEY, BAGPIPES!!!
Welcome to the Cafe! Since it's afternoon, may I interest you in some CHRISTMAS cookies? ;)
I've only been out just over a year, so I am all too familiar with the feeling of lonliness and discontentment while being torn between wanting something "better" - something "outside the walls of Zion", yet wanting to keep the family stable and in tact.
My never TWI family raised me in a Christian home and all my friends growing up were Christian of one faith or another. I saw them living the lives I wanted so badly. I saw them happy, healthy, prospering, peaceful and just plain enjoying life. It became harder and harder to reconcile THAT with the fact that that life was what TWI said we were supposed to have and that they had the audacity to say that we DID have. If we didn't have it, it wasn't TWI's fault, it was our fault because we were obviously "missing it" or out of "alignment and harmony" somehow.
You make a great point about how much harder it is for those who were around during some "good times" to leave. I suspect those good times make people hope and wish that there's hope for getting back to those days. Me? I never had any really good times like that in TWI, so when I finally came around to realizing I had been hoodwinked and was being destroyed by the spiritual and verbal abuse, it was actually pretty easy to make the decision to leave. It was fighting for five years to try to get my husband to see the same things and deciding I had to leave whether it meant divorce or not that was the hard part.
Goey, who posts here has a signature line that says something along the lines of the good times in TWI that he remembers never really happened. Upon reflection, I think there are others who would agree with that.
It's scary as all get out to post online for the first few times. Trust me, it gets easier. :) Glad you're here and I look forward to "reading" more of you!
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skyrider
Another thing.......
One innie admitted to me that twi is struggling with this debt/mortgage issue and FEARS THAT THERE MIGHT BE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT IF TWI REVERSES THIS MANDATE.
Several categories could be affected by this:
1) Those who sold their homes and are renting to accommodate twi mandates.
2) Those who refrained from purchasing a home so as to comply with twi doctrine.
3) Those who took on a mortgage.....and were "demoted" in twi's caste system and succombed to humiliation and/or degradation for doing so.
Loss opportunities, loss equity, and loss of civil liberties have been THE RESULT of twi's manipulation and micro-management. Shame on them.
Deep Discontent just might make its way towards Vicious Vindication.
Shame on twi.
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Belle
Yeppers, Skyrider, I've heard that, too. I'd love to see it happen! :P
I don't have a leg to stand on if there was a lawsuit, but I know enough and could help document enough and provide witness statements for many people in my area if they were to participate in one. Heck, I'd contact some of the people to let them know there was a lawsuit and encourage them to join in if it were to come to that.
Most of those people could also win slander suits very easily. "They love money more than they love God." was the common insult thrown out about those folks among other things....
I also still have tapes of craig from STSs going off on people who refuse to sell their homes.
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outandabout
I'd love to see them get their pants sued off. They deserve it, depriving people of their HOMES.
I'd love to see it. Give me popcorn and a front row.
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oldiesman
It all depends on the commitment and mind-set of the believer who is selling the house, whether it is a right thing or a wrong thing.
Here's what twi might say to those who made a commitment with them:
Bear in mind that making commitments to God, whether with twi or not, may include these things.
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skyrider
Yeah......and bear in mind that making commitments with an allegiance to a blood-sucking cult may include these things: INTIMIDATION, MANIPULATION, ABUSE, DECEIVING, HYPOCRISY, VAIN WORSHIP.
Know these things and be wise, Oldies-son.
;)
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