The Marine Corps or an Ivy League school is a serious training program. Way corpse training is an INDOCTRINATION - training others to carry out the evil edicts of those above them who are in it for the CONTROL over others and the FINANCIAL GAIN of stealing money from others in the name of God.
You know twi was tough and serious...and, the corps was a training program.
What did you expect?
And yet, I understand everything VP and Craig was trying to convey to the trainees.
Be tough.
Don't let the adversary talk you out of your commitment.
Your first commitment is to God, not your family.
etc.
I just wanted to get that all in one post.
Being committed to God does not require eschewing your earthly family. In fact, being committed to God would require you to help take care of your earthly family.
Even the marines get time off to spend with their families. I would hardly say they were weak.
I think most people expected something very different than what they were faced with.
Weed out the feeble-minded? Sexual manipulation is the sign of a feeble mind. VPW and his Corps coordinators wanted "their" corps to be what they were NOT!!
Geeze oldies! Why the H do you defend a Christian training program being like a nazi army camp??
The heart of any Christian leadership training program should have been to teach people how to love and care for people in a godly manner.
A lot of loving, caring, intelligent people went into that program.
A lot of goose-stepping, boot-licking, dictator wannabes also went into that program.
Guess whose mindset was encouraged over and over again in that program?
Guess whose mindset was overlooked, even minimized?
That's why I have a problem with the Corps program. Not that there was discipline. Hell, I was raised on discipline, and trained for a career in a very disciplined field. The rigors of the Corps were no big deal.
It was the demonstration of love missing from the leadership that was a big deal. Thank God some people kept their heads on straight anyway.
I think we forget that the corpse program was different in twi I, II and III! It reflected the twi of the "era". Some statements made on this thread only apply to earlier years. i.e. in the mid 90's the corps was required to dress for travel. Briefcases were carried on planes! Dresses for women and suite for men. Come on, who wears a suit to travel in a plane....everyone wants a certain level of comfort. My point is that when my kids came home at that time, they had a fully prearranged adjenda where they were sent from place to place to promo the corps program. They weren't home to spend any time with family at all.We were a free hotel and rental car to advance their "prime directive" of pushing the corps program.
That's not what I remember from previous years when ho-ho-relo occurred. Sure there were "assignments" but there was much more flexability. My point is that although we think we're talking about the same thing....I don't think we are. What was in the scope of posibility for Oldies, was NOT for those who followed in later years. I doubt his experience was much like that of those who followed later.
Thanks Krys, but I still don't think some folks get what I'm saying.
Reminds me of when VP said something about "you can't stop people from kicking you, but you determine which direction you will go".
Taken as a challenge, some of these rants by Craig can possibly benefit the corps volunteer ... toughen them up.
And speaking from a "spiritual sponsor" point of view, I wouldn't want to be contributing to a weak corps volunteer who may easily get talked out of their commitment by an earthly family member ... that'd be a waste of time and money. So maybe Craig wasn't so wrong after all.
Taken as a challenge, some of these rants by Craig can possibly benefit the corps volunteer ... toughen them up.
And speaking from a "spiritual sponsor" point of view, I wouldn't want to be contributing to a weak corps volunteer who may easily get talked out of their commitment by an earthly family member ... that'd be a waste of time and money. So maybe Craig wasn't so wrong after all.
Oldies......at one time, you posted on GS why you left, or were dismissed from, the corps program.
Is there something in THAT experience that could enlighten us as to your "hard-nosed approach" to lcm's rantings, intimidation and manipulation to corps trainees?
Seemingly, you PROMOTE the corps training.......and yet, your experience SEEMS TO TELL otherwise.
My dismissal had to do with me breaking one of the ten commandments (I'm not gonna say which one :D ) while at the same time being very young (19 yrs old), which was supposed worked against my ( at that time ) present involvement in the Corps. I was invited back, when I "got it together".
This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which is Craig ranting, yelling, or the so-called manipulation/intimidation you speak of.
I do not believe I was manipulated or intimidated in any way.
I considered most of those rants a challenge to "get busy" as Craig would put it.
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Allan
It probably depended who was in charge at the root locales. We never got any of that stuff at Indiana campus whilst Wayne Clapp was running it.
We had to learn the 'red thread' to be allowed to go on Christmas hols but that was never enforced !!
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oldiesman
And yet, I understand everything VP and Craig was trying to convey to the trainees.
Be tough.
Don't let the adversary talk you out of your commitment.
Your first commitment is to God, not your family.
etc.
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skyrider
EVERYTHING?
Amazing. :lol:
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oldiesman
Everything you mentioned on your first post.
Those things are pretty easy to understand.
You know twi was tough and serious...and, the corps was a training program.
What did you expect?
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excathedra
i certainly didn't expect all that crap..... makes me sick thinking about it
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oldiesman
I think it was meant to toughen you up.
It's the stones in the brook that make it sing.
Iron sharpenth iron.
What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.. :)
Dealing with manipulation, builds character. :) :)
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skyrider
Yeah......if you don't COWER TO TWI-DICTATES, you are "the scum of the earth."
Pretty easy to understand???? Really??
B)
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oldiesman
Just look at the context and environment.
You were in a serious training program.
Designed to weed out the unsure feeble minded.
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skyrider
Yeah.......designed to ISOLATE and INDOCTRINATE the simple-hearted.
Glad I learned the scam-artwork of twi early in life.
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TaylorCompany
Oldies said,
"Just look at the context and environment.
You were in a serious training program.
Designed to weed out the unsure feeble minded."
The Marine Corps or an Ivy League school is a serious training program. Way corpse training is an INDOCTRINATION - training others to carry out the evil edicts of those above them who are in it for the CONTROL over others and the FINANCIAL GAIN of stealing money from others in the name of God.
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Morgan
I just wanted to get that all in one post.
Being committed to God does not require eschewing your earthly family. In fact, being committed to God would require you to help take care of your earthly family.
Even the marines get time off to spend with their families. I would hardly say they were weak.
I think most people expected something very different than what they were faced with.
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Nottawayfer
Weed out the feeble-minded? Sexual manipulation is the sign of a feeble mind. VPW and his Corps coordinators wanted "their" corps to be what they were NOT!!
Geeze oldies! Why the H do you defend a Christian training program being like a nazi army camp??
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A la prochaine
Wayfer Not!!
Right on girl!
Good for you!
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Belle
Personal attack and rumor removed by the moderator
Edited by ModaustinLink to comment
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excathedra
"you are the scum of the earth." this really hit my funny bone !!!!
hey i thought you said i was the salt of the earth
no i said you were the scum of the earth
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WordWolf
Ok.
Behold the context and environment!
A bunch of youngsters assembled in a program
originated on a cornfield farm,
by a man with no training or experience in
leadership programs OR training,
who indoctrinated them in his doctrine,
whose motto was
"you can stay as long as your money holds",
who sent home anyone who was having trouble
at the early signs of trouble
(by shoving them on a bus, not taking them
to their doorstep; and no refunds)
who periodically kicked out the corps until
they recomitted themselves to him.
They spent a lot of time doing manual labour
fixing up the grounds, or lent out to farmers
to pick his crops, while vpw claimed they
didn't know how to work
(despite his OWN background where he
avoided manual labour all his life)
they were subjected to his mood-swings
and changes of expectations at a moment's
notice, where no right answer was correct
they were assigned things like exercise and
hitchhiking, and told this would help them
grow
plus other things-that was just off
the top of my head.
The context and environment?
A program that some wonderful, loving
people went into, that attempted to
grind them into cogs in the machine.
They were in a "training program"
designed and run by people with only the
vague notion of what a training program includes,
and subject to the whims of a capricious, unstable tyrant
who would tell them he loved them one day,
and insult and yell at them the next.
It was "designed" to advance vpw's agenda.
If they actually learned anything useful,
it was almost incidental.
The "feeble-minded" were in charge of the program,
and thus it was unable to weed them out.
Go ahead and rewrite the "good old days" in your brain,
but we're discussing the actual EVENTS,
so we're bound to clash when we meet.
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shazdancer
The heart of any Christian leadership training program should have been to teach people how to love and care for people in a godly manner.
A lot of loving, caring, intelligent people went into that program.
A lot of goose-stepping, boot-licking, dictator wannabes also went into that program.
Guess whose mindset was encouraged over and over again in that program?
Guess whose mindset was overlooked, even minimized?
That's why I have a problem with the Corps program. Not that there was discipline. Hell, I was raised on discipline, and trained for a career in a very disciplined field. The rigors of the Corps were no big deal.
It was the demonstration of love missing from the leadership that was a big deal. Thank God some people kept their heads on straight anyway.
Regards,
Shaz
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Oakspear
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Jim
Reminds me of a quote from an instructor at the Army's Ft. Benning Airborne parachute school..
"First we separate the men from the fools, then the fools jump..."
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Lifted Up
When was your training?
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krys
I think we forget that the corpse program was different in twi I, II and III! It reflected the twi of the "era". Some statements made on this thread only apply to earlier years. i.e. in the mid 90's the corps was required to dress for travel. Briefcases were carried on planes! Dresses for women and suite for men. Come on, who wears a suit to travel in a plane....everyone wants a certain level of comfort. My point is that when my kids came home at that time, they had a fully prearranged adjenda where they were sent from place to place to promo the corps program. They weren't home to spend any time with family at all.We were a free hotel and rental car to advance their "prime directive" of pushing the corps program.
That's not what I remember from previous years when ho-ho-relo occurred. Sure there were "assignments" but there was much more flexability. My point is that although we think we're talking about the same thing....I don't think we are. What was in the scope of posibility for Oldies, was NOT for those who followed in later years. I doubt his experience was much like that of those who followed later.
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oldiesman
Thanks Krys, but I still don't think some folks get what I'm saying.
Reminds me of when VP said something about "you can't stop people from kicking you, but you determine which direction you will go".
Taken as a challenge, some of these rants by Craig can possibly benefit the corps volunteer ... toughen them up.
And speaking from a "spiritual sponsor" point of view, I wouldn't want to be contributing to a weak corps volunteer who may easily get talked out of their commitment by an earthly family member ... that'd be a waste of time and money. So maybe Craig wasn't so wrong after all.
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skyrider
Oldies......at one time, you posted on GS why you left, or were dismissed from, the corps program.
Is there something in THAT experience that could enlighten us as to your "hard-nosed approach" to lcm's rantings, intimidation and manipulation to corps trainees?
Seemingly, you PROMOTE the corps training.......and yet, your experience SEEMS TO TELL otherwise.
Thanks. ;)
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oldiesman
Skyrider,
My dismissal had to do with me breaking one of the ten commandments (I'm not gonna say which one :D ) while at the same time being very young (19 yrs old), which was supposed worked against my ( at that time ) present involvement in the Corps. I was invited back, when I "got it together".
This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which is Craig ranting, yelling, or the so-called manipulation/intimidation you speak of.
I do not believe I was manipulated or intimidated in any way.
I considered most of those rants a challenge to "get busy" as Craig would put it.
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