OR the scriptures could be a record of accounts of how God delt with a particular people at a particular time in history.
In other words a history book.
I don`t think that it is unrealistic to think that we are capable of making our own history ....that God has his manner in dealing with us and our understanding in the 21st century.....
It is a bit unrealistic to hold ourselves to the rules and standards of the judean culture 2000 plus years ago...
Love God and Love your neighbor .... I think the rest will pretty well fall into place.
How do you know it is? Is it just because someone told you it is?
That is a fascinating question, Belle.
I would submit that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to find that statement that explicitly says it or a statement that even infers it.
There is a distinct difference in meaning among the following statements:
- The Will of God is contained in the Word of God
- The Word of God contains the Will of God
(yes, the above two infer different things)
- The Word of God has the Will of God
- The Will of God can be found in the Word of God
- The Word of God is the Will of God
To illustrate the differences, you need to use some Venn diagrams (set theory):
Each statement consists of two circles. One representing the Word of God. One representing the Will of God.
- In the first statement, the "Will" circle is smaller than the "Word" circle and is completely encircled by it. (Mathematically stated: "Will" Í "Word")
- In the second statement, the "Word" circle is smaller than the "Will" circle and is fully encircled by it. (Mathematically stated: "Word" Í "Will")
- In the third and fourth statement, the two circles partially intersect. (Mathematically stated, "Word" Ç "Will")
- In the fifth statement, the circles are exactly the same size and are completely coincident. (Mathematically stated, "Word" º "Will")
And, yes, this is with respect to verses that state that the Word of God is the truth, that the Word of God abides, that it does not come back void, etc.
I would submit that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to find that statement that explicitly says it or a statement that even infers it.
I agree. How would one go about proving that the word of God is the will of God, then? I just accepted it at face value (like so many other teachings) and now I'm not so sure.
I agree. How would one go about proving that the word of God is the will of God, then? I just accepted it at face value (like so many other teachings) and now I'm not so sure.
Ahh yes those teachings that we just blindly followed.
There was a post that was posted a week or so ago.
It went something like this. Paraphrased "The truth will always resurface". That is how we can seperate truth from false. Also IMO it is also being practical. Does it make sense in a logical way of thinking. There were many things in twi that did not make a lot of sense to me but I thought I would "grow" into understanding them as I grew "in the Word". Now I can see I did not understand those things because they were total BS and there we have to give it TIME to prove or disprove its' self if we don't see it right away.
I think the bible is of God and I do believe God does show his will for us.
In many ways, twi's foundational phrase......The Word of God is the Will of God.......is a misnomer, a misapplication of the true essence of the Scriptures.
As others have noted, the Word of God contains God's will.......but also contains things that pertain to life and godliness. The Scriptures also declare the workings of the devil and his kingdom.......the froward man, evil workings, seducers waxing worse and worse, etc. Are these "words" and evil workings noted in the Word (the scriptures) God's will? Absolutely not.
So, yes......the Word of God houses the will of God. But one must be vigilant of those who break through to steal, kill and destroy what God rightfully wills for His children, His believers.
Lest we forget......All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction which is instruction in righteousness [iI Timothy 3:16]. Note: this revealing truth is FAR MORE DETAILED than the misnomer, "the Word of God is the will of God."
I had a teaching where it was shown via the mathmatical principle things equal to the same thing are equal to each other, that the word of God is the will of God. I don't rememeber the exact verses used right now.
Personally, I believe that the Word of God is the Will of God. This statement makes total sense to me. As my word, (as logos) is defined by Greek dictionaries) would also be my will. The question that really needs to be asked is... what is the word of God?
In a thread that was moved to the Doctrine, section, we talked about the history of our current bible. Is it really the word, is there more to it than what we accept as the bible, should some of what we have not be included and so forth.
I think like CM. I think it is too much to be confined to words only. Also, I'm not convinced that everything in that "book" is either His will or His word.
But as for that catchy little Piffle phrase "The word of God is the Will of God"
IN order for that to be true in it's intended state you have to believe:
Only the Bible in the King James Version rightly divided by VPW and expounded to us through PFAL and other selected books fulfills this criteria.
SO do I believe that God shows us his will through his Words? Yes--but I believe that God is a continual and vital presence here and now and his guidance is not confined to a much translated set of documents some which are 2000+ years old
What is God's will? To try and contain it in a book that was 'written' with no particular point because it was never a book to begin with, but a collection of letters and opinions and recountings, is like trying to contain the ocean in cupped hands.
I think a lot of what VP emphasized in PFAL was to offset or counter what he himself was taught in the religious environment he grew up in. Even today many religious people think the "will of God" is this ominous force in the sky that just might pick you off if you're not "right with God". He presented God as loving, kind, something one could snuggle up to by comparison.
Literally, Mark and CM are correct: the word of God is not limited to scripture and some verses don't make sense as the will of God. Ezek. 27:28 The suburbs shall shake at the sound of the cry of thy pilots. OK. What's in it for ME? Unless the cry of thy pilots is a hip hop band, I cannot act on that as the "will of God".
But if I want to know what the will of God is about something, my first option would be to go to scripture.
What is God's will? To try and contain it in a book that was 'written' with no particular point because it was never a book to begin with, but a collection of letters and opinions and recountings, is like trying to contain the ocean in cupped hands.
It is amazing how easily it is to separate God and Jesus in one's mind. For example, even when we were taught in twi that the bible from Genesis 3 (if I remember correctly) on was all about Jesus, twi turned around and taught us that Jesus was absent. Another example is the topic of this thread...twi NEVER pointed us to Jesus, but pointed us to a golden bible idol.
The most important doctrinal understanding that changed for me concerning twi was when my eyes were opened to the fact that the bible says that Jesus is the Word of God, not the book called the bible. Once I realized that, much of the twi false doctrines began to come off of my mind the way dust comes off one's body when one bathes in cool water. :)
Incredible Outin88, very good. The Word of God is the Will of God.
Sweet Belle I think that you are taking the things to the extreme, maybe you need vacations, a new job, car, cloth, or change you routine, or a boyfriend. Most of all agree that VPW was wrong also that TWI is wrong, but the Bible? You know that I like a lot your questions, but in this category I think that you need to slow down. Get over all the bad things. Sorry if I am to direct but I do care for you. Also maybe I am wrong. :wub: But I send you a big hug and a kiss.
Well then, I guess I need to go out and buy me a slave....
Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (NIV)
Apparently never changed in the New Testament:
Ephesians 6:5: Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. (NIV)
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themex
Of course, certainly it is! :D
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oldiesman
If it isn't, we are all in deep doo doo
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justloafing
I am not sure where you are going with this Belle. Expound a little?
I like the topic
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Belle
How do you know it is? Is it just because someone told you it is?
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justloafing
If it was God breathed...........yes,
If it was made up by man then ...........No
Then one must ask "Is there a God ?"
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rascal
OR the scriptures could be a record of accounts of how God delt with a particular people at a particular time in history.
In other words a history book.
I don`t think that it is unrealistic to think that we are capable of making our own history ....that God has his manner in dealing with us and our understanding in the 21st century.....
It is a bit unrealistic to hold ourselves to the rules and standards of the judean culture 2000 plus years ago...
Love God and Love your neighbor .... I think the rest will pretty well fall into place.
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markomalley
That is a fascinating question, Belle.
I would submit that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to find that statement that explicitly says it or a statement that even infers it.
There is a distinct difference in meaning among the following statements:
- The Will of God is contained in the Word of God
- The Word of God contains the Will of God
(yes, the above two infer different things)
- The Word of God has the Will of God
- The Will of God can be found in the Word of God
- The Word of God is the Will of God
To illustrate the differences, you need to use some Venn diagrams (set theory):
Each statement consists of two circles. One representing the Word of God. One representing the Will of God.
- In the first statement, the "Will" circle is smaller than the "Word" circle and is completely encircled by it. (Mathematically stated: "Will" Í "Word")
- In the second statement, the "Word" circle is smaller than the "Will" circle and is fully encircled by it. (Mathematically stated: "Word" Í "Will")
- In the third and fourth statement, the two circles partially intersect. (Mathematically stated, "Word" Ç "Will")
- In the fifth statement, the circles are exactly the same size and are completely coincident. (Mathematically stated, "Word" º "Will")
And, yes, this is with respect to verses that state that the Word of God is the truth, that the Word of God abides, that it does not come back void, etc.
But if somebody can prove me wrong, I'm all ears.
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CM
What is the word of God?
is it scripture or more then that?
personally i am not confined by the scriptures
and if one doesn't do the will
what happens?
many examples in the scriptures
not all bad either
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Belle
Good answers! Keep 'em coming!
I agree. How would one go about proving that the word of God is the will of God, then? I just accepted it at face value (like so many other teachings) and now I'm not so sure.
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WordWolf
It's a catchy slogan.
If I were asked the TRUTH,
I'd say the Bible is God's Word, and CONTAINS God's Will,
and COMMUNICATES God's Will.
It is God's Will that we understand God's Word,
and they are interrelated.
They are not IDENTICAL, however.
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justloafing
Ahh yes those teachings that we just blindly followed.
There was a post that was posted a week or so ago.
It went something like this. Paraphrased "The truth will always resurface". That is how we can seperate truth from false. Also IMO it is also being practical. Does it make sense in a logical way of thinking. There were many things in twi that did not make a lot of sense to me but I thought I would "grow" into understanding them as I grew "in the Word". Now I can see I did not understand those things because they were total BS and there we have to give it TIME to prove or disprove its' self if we don't see it right away.
I think the bible is of God and I do believe God does show his will for us.
Edited by justloafingLink to comment
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skyrider
In many ways, twi's foundational phrase......The Word of God is the Will of God.......is a misnomer, a misapplication of the true essence of the Scriptures.
As others have noted, the Word of God contains God's will.......but also contains things that pertain to life and godliness. The Scriptures also declare the workings of the devil and his kingdom.......the froward man, evil workings, seducers waxing worse and worse, etc. Are these "words" and evil workings noted in the Word (the scriptures) God's will? Absolutely not.
So, yes......the Word of God houses the will of God. But one must be vigilant of those who break through to steal, kill and destroy what God rightfully wills for His children, His believers.
Lest we forget......All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction which is instruction in righteousness [iI Timothy 3:16]. Note: this revealing truth is FAR MORE DETAILED than the misnomer, "the Word of God is the will of God."
More later.
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Keith
I had a teaching where it was shown via the mathmatical principle things equal to the same thing are equal to each other, that the word of God is the will of God. I don't rememeber the exact verses used right now.
Personally, I believe that the Word of God is the Will of God. This statement makes total sense to me. As my word, (as logos) is defined by Greek dictionaries) would also be my will. The question that really needs to be asked is... what is the word of God?
In a thread that was moved to the Doctrine, section, we talked about the history of our current bible. Is it really the word, is there more to it than what we accept as the bible, should some of what we have not be included and so forth.
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Galen
I would say that:
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justloafing
I agree :)
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krys
I think like CM. I think it is too much to be confined to words only. Also, I'm not convinced that everything in that "book" is either His will or His word.
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templelady
Definitely the Words of God show us his will.
But as for that catchy little Piffle phrase "The word of God is the Will of God"
IN order for that to be true in it's intended state you have to believe:
Only the Bible in the King James Version rightly divided by VPW and expounded to us through PFAL and other selected books fulfills this criteria.
SO do I believe that God shows us his will through his Words? Yes--but I believe that God is a continual and vital presence here and now and his guidance is not confined to a much translated set of documents some which are 2000+ years old
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CoolWaters
Biblically speaking, the Word of God is Jesus.
What is God's will? To try and contain it in a book that was 'written' with no particular point because it was never a book to begin with, but a collection of letters and opinions and recountings, is like trying to contain the ocean in cupped hands.
IMO.
Great thread Thelma Darlene, my dear. :D
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johniam
I think a lot of what VP emphasized in PFAL was to offset or counter what he himself was taught in the religious environment he grew up in. Even today many religious people think the "will of God" is this ominous force in the sky that just might pick you off if you're not "right with God". He presented God as loving, kind, something one could snuggle up to by comparison.
Literally, Mark and CM are correct: the word of God is not limited to scripture and some verses don't make sense as the will of God. Ezek. 27:28 The suburbs shall shake at the sound of the cry of thy pilots. OK. What's in it for ME? Unless the cry of thy pilots is a hip hop band, I cannot act on that as the "will of God".
But if I want to know what the will of God is about something, my first option would be to go to scripture.
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CM
yeah CoolWaters
i'd add that it's the Christ
cool post
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Outin88.
I think so, here's something interesting, check it out.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/panin.htm
Good post CoolWaters.
Here's another interesting link;
http://100prophecies.org/prophecy.htm
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CoolWaters
:) TY CM and Outin88
It is amazing how easily it is to separate God and Jesus in one's mind. For example, even when we were taught in twi that the bible from Genesis 3 (if I remember correctly) on was all about Jesus, twi turned around and taught us that Jesus was absent. Another example is the topic of this thread...twi NEVER pointed us to Jesus, but pointed us to a golden bible idol.
The most important doctrinal understanding that changed for me concerning twi was when my eyes were opened to the fact that the bible says that Jesus is the Word of God, not the book called the bible. Once I realized that, much of the twi false doctrines began to come off of my mind the way dust comes off one's body when one bathes in cool water. :)
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themex
Incredible Outin88, very good. The Word of God is the Will of God.
Sweet Belle I think that you are taking the things to the extreme, maybe you need vacations, a new job, car, cloth, or change you routine, or a boyfriend. Most of all agree that VPW was wrong also that TWI is wrong, but the Bible? You know that I like a lot your questions, but in this category I think that you need to slow down. Get over all the bad things. Sorry if I am to direct but I do care for you. Also maybe I am wrong. :wub: But I send you a big hug and a kiss.
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GT
Well then, I guess I need to go out and buy me a slave....
Apparently never changed in the New Testament:
God's will for people to own people?
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