There are five articles there called "Cultivating and abundance of..." (faith, speech, knowledge, diligence and love). Those are all directly related to the subject, though they are written to stand on their own. I have one more article to write in that series, and it wraps them all up in the "God's Standard for Giving" package.
I'm not sure of the paper you're looking for, but there's one by Chris Jordan on Debt that's really good. I have a link to it somewhere around here, I'll see if I can find it.
In referance to "bondage". You can be assured that whatever you have given will come back to you. I know much has been said about the tithe here but regardless of whether or not someone tithes, the word says to do it or not in the Church Epistles, it still works. It's the heart that counts. Sounds more to me like many people may want an excuse not to give.
Bottom line is that God has not changed. He will honor anyones heart who gives. The tithe still works just as it did in the O.T. As a matter of fact it's a great way to prove God in your life. I have never, never been disappointed. Things are still coming back to me and I would not feel limited to the tithe. You still cannot outgive God and personally why wouldn't a believer want to give as much as they can (from the heart).
God needs money to move the Word. We want to have God super blessing us all the time, so is alot of this observation based on fear. I have personally challanged people that were heavy in debt to DOUBLE their giving and they came back to me and their debt was relieved fast. They were blown away. So I believe it's still DOUBT, WORRY & FEAR in believers that holds them back. God is really there. He will never leave his kids hanging if they are trying to do what they belive in their hearts is right. So while it may not say title, I contend that "cheerful giving" is # 1, then "he that giveth sparingly shall reap sparingly" is # 2.
If all of us here really believe there is a God and he is our Father, how can we not believe he will honor our hearts, bless us abundantly and give to us when we have need.
I agree with everything you said, Lorna, except the "excuse" part. We don't need an excuse not to tithe anymore than we need an excuse not to sacrifice goats.
If it blesses you to give 9.95%, then do it. If it blesses you to give 20%, then do it. If 10% floats your boat, go for it! God certainly encourages generous giving. How you define generous is between you and Him.
The OT 10% had a very specific purpose. That purpose no longer exists, but the heart of giving lives on. :)
(Checking again: I didn't exactly quote Lorna correctly, so let me get it right. I'm sure there are people looking for an excuse not to give, and they'll use the truth that tithing is not addressed to the church today. Those folks wouldn't give if tithing WERE addressed to the church. But accurate doctrine is accurate doctrine, whether one is looking for the truth or excuses when they find it).
Raf's article on this subject is very good. Also recommended is Ernest Martin's book called The Tithing Dilemna. The only thing I disagree with in Martin's book is his calling tithing a sin, which is hardly true, but I believe he was referring to legalistic tithing versus a person who gives 10% freely out of their hearts. Raf's article kind of sums up things that are also in Martin's book with his own very good research in a briefer version and is quicker to tell people that giving from the heart is the principle, not tithing. I don't know if Raf bought Martin's book or not, but it would have been a great reference for any article on giving or tithing. I used Martin's book.
Let each man do [give] just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. [NASB]
There. That was easy. “Just as he has purposed in his heart” is God’s specific instruction to members of the Christian Church on the subject of financial giving. While it’s clear from the context of this verse that God expects and encourages generous giving, the instruction is also noteworthy for what it is missing: a minimum percentage. Chapters 8 and 9 of II Corinthians deal specifically with the subject of giving, and not once does the Apostle Paul say that a minimum amount is required, demanded or even requested by God.
The standard set by God for the church can’t be more clear: “just as he has purposed in his heart.”
Galatians 5:1
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Guess what? When you tell someone he is “robbing God” unless he forks over 10 percent of his income, you are subjecting him to the yoke of slavery! Maybe 10 percent was once God’s standard for giving, but it is clearly no longer the case. “Just as he purposed in his heart” and “a minimum of 10 percent” are contradictory standards. They can’t both be God’s standard for giving. Since II Corinthians is specifically addressed to the Christian church, I believe that tithing is “out,” and “just as he purposed in his heart” is “in.”
But (and you knew there was a but coming) just as we are not to use God’s grace as a license to sin, we are also not to use God’s standard for giving as a license to be stingy.
II Corinthians 9:6
Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall reap nothing at all, see how he likes that.
Is that what is says? Look again.
II Corinthians 9:6
Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully.
So we see that God does encourage generosity. The bountiful harvest comes back to us on God’s terms, not ours. I don’t give with the expectation that I’m going to get money back from God. But I do acknowledge God’s promise that when I give, I will reap a harvest. Praise God for His goodness and generosity to all.
So, if 10 percent is not God’s standard for giving, how do we determine the purpose of our hearts? That is, how do I decide how much to give?
II Corinthians 8:7
But just as you abound in everything, in faith and utterance and knowledge and in all earnestness and in the love we inspired in you, see that you abound in this gracious work also.
“This gracious work,” in context, is giving. How much should you give? Well, how much do you believe? How important is God’s Word to you, in “head” knowledge and experiential knowledge? How diligent are you when it comes to the things of God? How much love do you show and receive in your life? The Bible says that as you abound in these things, you should also abound in giving.
If you’re not believing, speaking and living the Word diligently, and you’re not loving, giving isn’t going to be very impressive. If you are believing, speaking and living the Word diligently, and you are loving, your giving should reflect that. Let your abundance in all those areas guide you as you decide how much you want to give. Maybe it’s 10 percent. Maybe it’s less. Maybe it’s more. The amount is between you and God, but choose with honesty and appreciation for Him, and do it with cheer.
God likes that.
(Copyright warning not necessary, as the holder of the copyright is the person who posted this. :))
From experience, I firmly believe that I would much rather depend on God than any money I earned. So therefore ABS, giving, tithe, whatever you call it, is such a great tool that God trusted to us to see that tight relationship with Him grow into complete dependance on Him. He truly wants to be our sufficiency.
In addition, I can't see how anyone would ever want to give less than the tithe, if that was required back in the O.T. when they were not direct sons and daughters of God. Is it fear that keeps people hashing the subject or is it that people are really having a problem in the area of giving.
This is one of the areas that I really worked on when I first got into the word. It was always from the heart. I was so thankful to find that by sharing back to God I really, truly had his protection for myself, my family and it would aid my spiritual growth. To call it tithe probably is wrong but at least it's a beginning point for many who want to build on that foundation. I think the main issue is to help people get over the fear of not giving. I hear many say that they gave for years and did not see the fruit. I would guarantee if they were not being mechanical and being coerced into giving they HAD to have fruit. God never fails us.
Totally agree Lorna, in fact I would go one further and say that many who did give and then stopped got ABUNDANTLY BLESSED.. for awhile, but eventually their 'storehouse' runs dry.
I liken it to the prodigal son who said " Father, give me what is mine ".
Cashing in your chips, calling in your harvest, call it what you will, but I've seen enough to show me that "it is more blessed to give than to receive" still holds true and as I said earlier in this post Dr. Bob Darnells recent teaching at CFFM on 'Deliberate Giving' is AWESOME.
In addition, I can't see how anyone would ever want to give less than the tithe, if that was required back in the O.T. when they were not direct sons and daughters of God. Is it fear that keeps people hashing the subject or is it that people are really having a problem in the area of giving?
Were people reallyrequired to give 10 percent of their income in the Old Testament? Were all people in Israel required to tithe? Look it up. The answer may surprise you.
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skyrider
Welcome Seeker46.
I don't know about this paper......but wanted to say hi.
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WordWolf
Hello.
I was not able to find that specific paper on tithing.
A quick search, however, turned up these:
http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html
http://www.livingepistlessociety.org/StandardForGiving.pdf
This one is a pdf, and will need to be downloaded.
There's more on a number of websites, if you want more.
(But not the one you asked about. If it's out there, I can't find it.)
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Seeker46
Thanks for the welcome and quick response.
I've recently escaped bondage [much of which I didn't realize I was in] after
29+ years. Boy, what a refreshing and eye opening I have had and still
experiencing.
"The truth truly sets you free"
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rascal
Welcome to freedom Seeker!
It is a wonderfull adventure that you are now embarked upon :)
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
welcome seeker
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topoftheworld
Welcome, Seeker! Enjoy!
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justloafing
Wahooooo Seeker.........Life is a blast. Enjoy!!!!!!
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outandabout
Congrats on leaving
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Radar OReilly
Welcome to Gspot........your first step to your new life
I think that paper was written by a gspotter who posts as napkinlady. Anybody able to help ?
ror
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Raf
Hi seeker!
WordWolf linked to one of my articles on tithing.
I'd recommend (shameless plug alert) you read that article and then jump on my web site, http://www.livingepistlessociety.org
There are five articles there called "Cultivating and abundance of..." (faith, speech, knowledge, diligence and love). Those are all directly related to the subject, though they are written to stand on their own. I have one more article to write in that series, and it wraps them all up in the "God's Standard for Giving" package.
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Belle
Welcome, Seeker!
I'm not sure of the paper you're looking for, but there's one by Chris Jordan on Debt that's really good. I have a link to it somewhere around here, I'll see if I can find it.
May I offer you a cinnamon roll?
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allan w.
A shameless plug for what I consider one of the best teachings on abundant sharing I've heard in awhile !
Dr. Bob Darnell of CFFM..entitled 'Deliberate Giving'.
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Raf
Can you sum up some highlights?
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allan w.
No !! It's Sunday morning Down unda and I'm going downstairs for pancakes and coffee.
But..all kidding aside, if you cant download the teaching or listen to it I will post some highlights later !!
( really, the whole thing was a highlight and not just BD's dry humour ! )
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waterbuffalo
Hi Seeker,
I'd like to Welcome you also!
I'm not familiar with the paper you're referring to, but Mike Tomberlin has tapes on the
tithe/offerings in Corinthians which were the best eyeopeners I'd ever "seen." It helped to
clear lots of legalism in that subject from my mind. He shows that the "tithes" the apostles/
disciples were collecting on Monday weren't tithes after all. They were, in all cases, really relief
offerings for the Christians in other cities who had specific needs (disaster, etc.).
Anyway, welcome! Have a cuppa on me.
wb
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LornaDoone
Greetings Seeker.
In referance to "bondage". You can be assured that whatever you have given will come back to you. I know much has been said about the tithe here but regardless of whether or not someone tithes, the word says to do it or not in the Church Epistles, it still works. It's the heart that counts. Sounds more to me like many people may want an excuse not to give.
Bottom line is that God has not changed. He will honor anyones heart who gives. The tithe still works just as it did in the O.T. As a matter of fact it's a great way to prove God in your life. I have never, never been disappointed. Things are still coming back to me and I would not feel limited to the tithe. You still cannot outgive God and personally why wouldn't a believer want to give as much as they can (from the heart).
God needs money to move the Word. We want to have God super blessing us all the time, so is alot of this observation based on fear. I have personally challanged people that were heavy in debt to DOUBLE their giving and they came back to me and their debt was relieved fast. They were blown away. So I believe it's still DOUBT, WORRY & FEAR in believers that holds them back. God is really there. He will never leave his kids hanging if they are trying to do what they belive in their hearts is right. So while it may not say title, I contend that "cheerful giving" is # 1, then "he that giveth sparingly shall reap sparingly" is # 2.
If all of us here really believe there is a God and he is our Father, how can we not believe he will honor our hearts, bless us abundantly and give to us when we have need.
IMO
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Raf
I agree with everything you said, Lorna, except the "excuse" part. We don't need an excuse not to tithe anymore than we need an excuse not to sacrifice goats.
If it blesses you to give 9.95%, then do it. If it blesses you to give 20%, then do it. If 10% floats your boat, go for it! God certainly encourages generous giving. How you define generous is between you and Him.
The OT 10% had a very specific purpose. That purpose no longer exists, but the heart of giving lives on. :)
(Checking again: I didn't exactly quote Lorna correctly, so let me get it right. I'm sure there are people looking for an excuse not to give, and they'll use the truth that tithing is not addressed to the church today. Those folks wouldn't give if tithing WERE addressed to the church. But accurate doctrine is accurate doctrine, whether one is looking for the truth or excuses when they find it).
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dmiller
Giving from the heart matters, not percentages.
;)
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Eagle
Raf's article on this subject is very good. Also recommended is Ernest Martin's book called The Tithing Dilemna. The only thing I disagree with in Martin's book is his calling tithing a sin, which is hardly true, but I believe he was referring to legalistic tithing versus a person who gives 10% freely out of their hearts. Raf's article kind of sums up things that are also in Martin's book with his own very good research in a briefer version and is quicker to tell people that giving from the heart is the principle, not tithing. I don't know if Raf bought Martin's book or not, but it would have been a great reference for any article on giving or tithing. I used Martin's book.
Hope I have that right from what I read.
Eagle
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Raf
Here's the short version of that teaching:
God Loves a Cheerful Giver
God’s Standard For Giving
By Raf
II Corinthians 9:7
Let each man do [give] just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. [NASB]
There. That was easy. “Just as he has purposed in his heart” is God’s specific instruction to members of the Christian Church on the subject of financial giving. While it’s clear from the context of this verse that God expects and encourages generous giving, the instruction is also noteworthy for what it is missing: a minimum percentage. Chapters 8 and 9 of II Corinthians deal specifically with the subject of giving, and not once does the Apostle Paul say that a minimum amount is required, demanded or even requested by God.
The standard set by God for the church can’t be more clear: “just as he has purposed in his heart.”
Galatians 5:1
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Guess what? When you tell someone he is “robbing God” unless he forks over 10 percent of his income, you are subjecting him to the yoke of slavery! Maybe 10 percent was once God’s standard for giving, but it is clearly no longer the case. “Just as he purposed in his heart” and “a minimum of 10 percent” are contradictory standards. They can’t both be God’s standard for giving. Since II Corinthians is specifically addressed to the Christian church, I believe that tithing is “out,” and “just as he purposed in his heart” is “in.”
But (and you knew there was a but coming) just as we are not to use God’s grace as a license to sin, we are also not to use God’s standard for giving as a license to be stingy.
II Corinthians 9:6
Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall reap nothing at all, see how he likes that.
Is that what is says? Look again.
II Corinthians 9:6
Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully.
So we see that God does encourage generosity. The bountiful harvest comes back to us on God’s terms, not ours. I don’t give with the expectation that I’m going to get money back from God. But I do acknowledge God’s promise that when I give, I will reap a harvest. Praise God for His goodness and generosity to all.
So, if 10 percent is not God’s standard for giving, how do we determine the purpose of our hearts? That is, how do I decide how much to give?
II Corinthians 8:7
But just as you abound in everything, in faith and utterance and knowledge and in all earnestness and in the love we inspired in you, see that you abound in this gracious work also.
“This gracious work,” in context, is giving. How much should you give? Well, how much do you believe? How important is God’s Word to you, in “head” knowledge and experiential knowledge? How diligent are you when it comes to the things of God? How much love do you show and receive in your life? The Bible says that as you abound in these things, you should also abound in giving.
If you’re not believing, speaking and living the Word diligently, and you’re not loving, giving isn’t going to be very impressive. If you are believing, speaking and living the Word diligently, and you are loving, your giving should reflect that. Let your abundance in all those areas guide you as you decide how much you want to give. Maybe it’s 10 percent. Maybe it’s less. Maybe it’s more. The amount is between you and God, but choose with honesty and appreciation for Him, and do it with cheer.
God likes that.
(Copyright warning not necessary, as the holder of the copyright is the person who posted this. :))
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LornaDoone
From experience, I firmly believe that I would much rather depend on God than any money I earned. So therefore ABS, giving, tithe, whatever you call it, is such a great tool that God trusted to us to see that tight relationship with Him grow into complete dependance on Him. He truly wants to be our sufficiency.
In addition, I can't see how anyone would ever want to give less than the tithe, if that was required back in the O.T. when they were not direct sons and daughters of God. Is it fear that keeps people hashing the subject or is it that people are really having a problem in the area of giving.
This is one of the areas that I really worked on when I first got into the word. It was always from the heart. I was so thankful to find that by sharing back to God I really, truly had his protection for myself, my family and it would aid my spiritual growth. To call it tithe probably is wrong but at least it's a beginning point for many who want to build on that foundation. I think the main issue is to help people get over the fear of not giving. I hear many say that they gave for years and did not see the fruit. I would guarantee if they were not being mechanical and being coerced into giving they HAD to have fruit. God never fails us.
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allan w.
Totally agree Lorna, in fact I would go one further and say that many who did give and then stopped got ABUNDANTLY BLESSED.. for awhile, but eventually their 'storehouse' runs dry.
I liken it to the prodigal son who said " Father, give me what is mine ".
Cashing in your chips, calling in your harvest, call it what you will, but I've seen enough to show me that "it is more blessed to give than to receive" still holds true and as I said earlier in this post Dr. Bob Darnells recent teaching at CFFM on 'Deliberate Giving' is AWESOME.
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Raf
Were people reallyrequired to give 10 percent of their income in the Old Testament? Were all people in Israel required to tithe? Look it up. The answer may surprise you.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I also believe that the "tithe" was to be taken to a levitical priest...
...can anyone direct me to a levitical priest?...and does he accept mastercard?
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